That's great, but to many of us that is worshipping the creation and completely neglecting the creator. Its like happening upon a Pearl Jam Album, recognizing its brilliance, and completely ignoring the fact there is a group of extremely gifted musicians that made it.
quote]
I look at this beautiful planet, and I feel priveleged that evolution, that nature, could create such a wonder over such a long time, and see fit to have me live on it for a speck on that timeline.
That is not ignoring it. There was no creator. Pearl Jam create music, and we can physically see the people that created it. We can acknowledge them at concerts for doing so. We accpet that 5 (6 sorry boom) created that music between them.
Can you physically see the person you believe created the earth upon which you live?
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Your problem is that you cannot imagine something superceding the basic tools of your perception. And while simple imagination cannot prove that something supercedes your perception, the expectation that something greater than your perceptions is required to show itself to you is equally as foolish.
Ok then, dude, ill take evidence from someobdy else then. Video, photo, eye witness statements.
I'm easy.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
That's great, but to many of us that is worshipping the creation and completely neglecting the creator. Its like happening upon a Pearl Jam Album, recognizing its brilliance, and completely ignoring the fact there is a group of extremely gifted musicians that made it.
quote]
I look at this beautiful planet, and I feel priveleged that evolution, that nature, could create such a wonder over such a long time, and see fit to have me live on it for a speck on that timeline.
That is not ignoring it. There was no creator. Pearl Jam create music, and we can physically see the people that created it. We can acknowledge them at concerts for doing so. We accpet that 5 (6 sorry boom) created that music between them.
Can you physically see the person you believe created the earth upon which you live?
You're missing the point of the analogy I made and the intention of it, so, again, I say... forget it. I am not going to run around in circles with you aimlessly.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
religous people who think they need to preach to the world. I'm glad for people who have found something to believe in if it makes them happy and allows them to live their life better. Trying to change someone's beliefs is a fools game, no matter how good your 'watch' example may be.
I don't think the truth about any of the magic in this world has or will ever be revealed, and I do have trouble believing the teaching of a book that's been translated in several different languages, re-written serveral times, writtten hundreds of years after the fact and is not based on historical evidence and facts. That is not to say I don't believe in a "God", just not God in a conventional sense.
You're missing the point of the analogy I made and the intention of it, so, again, I say... forget it. I am not going to run around in circles with you aimlessly.
What is aimless?
You likened music to the earth, God to Pearl Jam.
You then said those who do not believe in god are ignoring the creator.
I merely state that we can see Pearl Jam, nobody can see this 'god' of yours.
Thanks for the input though.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Your question has no relavence to the point trying to be made. Its the old watch thing again, but dressed up in a different suit.
What is this personal love you speak of?
Love cannot crete the universe and heavens in 6 days, then rest on the seventh.
Your 'god', can, apparently.
Show me god, ill give you faith. Simple.
In your earlier post you alluded to the fact that you can point to things in the external world to show others. You claimed one cannot show God.
There are many things we cannot prove or show others, like our experience of love. You cannot show me what you thought yesterday at 5:00 pm. And yet the unproveable exists.
The point is because you have not experienced God and do not know God or cannot point to God proves merely that you have not experienced God, do not know God and cannot prove he exists.
What I'm saying is you are no closer to proving your view as more sensical than mine. Because you seem to predominantly define reality as being the external world is a far cry from proving such a view as more "normal" or common-sensical than others who value the inner subjective understandings of the external world.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
athiests: u think ur brain power is a cause of nature? think to urselves on moment, one by one. is it possible that someone with ur complex thoughts and self awareness is just a mistake?
if you find a watch on an uninhabited island... you would say someone must have put it there. for a watch is too complex a mechanism to have just got there by chance. the watch must have had a designers, and a manufacturer, as its mechanisms are complex, and need to be exact for it to work.
think of yourself, and compare yourself with a watch. you must think you are very simple people
Please, feel free to pray for me if that makes you feel better. There has been more blood shed and more politics in religion than we shall ever know. Since the beginning of time (when was that?) or at least as far back as written history goes, religion has been a tool used to control the masses by fear, to proft off of the masses, and to keep peace within a "community". Most scholars will admit that it is impossible to recover the "real" or "authentic" versions of the disciples writings due to the numerous edits, assumption, and inferred meanings that have taken place over the centuries, along with the lack of ALL of the disciples writings and not just a few. It is common knowledge that in Roman times, rulers merged traditional pagan beliefs into the ever popular and growing religion know as "christianity" in order to keep the peace in their society. And this is just "christanity", but the same goes for most mass religions.
With that said, that doesn't mean there is no god, it just means that maybe what others have taught you that god is, is really just a medium to manipulate your mind in to believing what they want you to believe. Every human should look deep with in themselves and nature to find each persons individual god. God is not something to comes to you from the heavens, it is not something that will strike you down if you say fuck, and it is not something that demands attention. God answers to no particular name. God is the energy that lives in each of us, the energy that connects physically and spiritually whether you believe it or not, and you cannot create nor destroy this energy. But that is just MY god.
There are no coincidences in life, there are no mistakes if you learn from them, and there are no pre-determined lives. Some people choose to "express their spirituality" with large gatherings of folks, while having a person tell you their interpretation of their readings of a book that was written by men aobut their interpretations of certain accounts in history. I personally find that with mass groups of people, their are negative enrgies that cancel out the positive, therefore I prefer to "express my spirituality" amongst smaller groups of positive people and share energy rather than have it cancelled out by someone I may or may not even know. I pitty those who can't think for themselves and accept others interpretations about what THEIR god is......
Cheers,
NEWAGEHIPPIE
Keep your eyes open, eventually something will happen....
I'll tell you this though, if there is a god, putting in a book what you want it to say would be one of the most backhanded, manipulative things a person could do.
I'm not an atheist, but I will never follow a religion.
p.s. new age hippie, you should really space out your words so it's easier to read
In your earlier post you alluded to the fact that you can point to things in the external world to show others. You claimed one cannot show God.
.
Ok then, show me god. Not love, or thought, but god. Show me it.
If he's there, so powerful, show me him. Or in the least, show me somebody who has.
Love and thought are chemical reactions designed to profligate the survival of the species. Dress it up in as much spiritual mumbo jumbo all you want, but we are a being based upon, consisting of, a mixture of chemicals and elements. No more than eating, sleeping, breeding machines. There is no reason to our existence other than that we exist.
Show me god.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
to me, it makes much more sense to believe in what you see, not some omnipotent santa claus-like character.
I agree. But those two things, what you see and what you don't see, do not necessarily conflict.
i have always thought that the burden of proof should be on those who BELIEVE. i believe in nothing...why should i have to prove that? you PROVE your god, and i will believe.
Tell me, do you believe a God cannot exist? If so, you don't believe in "nothing".
but, the punchline is no one knows for sure. i could be wrong. whatever. i'm prepared to deal with that. if believers are wrong, they will never know.
Ok. Take evidence from somewhere else. Now prove to me God cannot exist.
Again, the emphasis is upon others to prove something they say to be fact.
You really do strugle keeping things on topic, on track sometimes.
Show me god. Or a photo, video, anything.
If you're accused of murder, do you have to prove you did not do something?
Sure, an alibi helps, but lack of alibi alone has never got anybody convicted for murder.
So. Show me this god.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
to me, it makes much more sense to believe in what you see, not some omnipotent santa claus-like character.
i have always thought that the burden of proof should be on those who BELIEVE. i believe in nothing...why should i have to prove that? you PROVE your god, and i will believe.
but, the punchline is no one knows for sure. i could be wrong. whatever. i'm prepared to deal with that. if believers are wrong, they will never know.
I fully support each person's own personal view.
As far as proof, people only see what they want to see. Including in science. What is the difference between what we've scientifically proven at this point and what we will prove in 500 years? Will a new reality system emerge in 500 years offering us the level of advancement we will achieve at that time? Or is it more likely that human awareness/consciousness will expand to unprecedented degrees that will allow us to understand more of the reality system we already exist in?
Our brain filters will only let in what we are willing to accept. What we are willing to accept is many times a far cry from what is real and what is the truth. We aren't forced to use a mere 5 or 10% of our brains. We choose to use a mere 5-10%!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Ok then, show me god. Not love, or thought, but god. Show me it.
If he's there, so powerful, show me him. Or in the least, show me somebody who has.
Love and thought are chemical reactions designed to profligate the survival of the species. Dress it up in as much spiritual mumbo jumbo all you want, but we are a being based upon, consisting of, a mixture of chemicals and elements. No more than eating, sleeping, breeding machines. There is no reason to our existence other than that we exist.
Show me god.
It sounds like you missed the points in my post.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Speak for yourself. I grasp it just fine.
Empty, scared people need a father figure to believe in, to justify to them the pain in their life is ok. Balanced, reasoned, well adjusted people, don't need to believe in fairy tales.
Either way, I doubt the pearls of mystery and understanding will be threatened by anything your mind has to offer.
There are plenty of balanced, reasoned, well adjusted people who believe in a god. Grasp that.
Which one of you two is Israel and which one represents the arab nations?
I'm Spartacus!!
Oops, sorry, could offend the religious AND the Jewish supporters on here with that one.
Crucifixion? Oh dear...I'll get my coat.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Agreed! You say it is fact that a God cannot exist. The emphasis is on you.
When? Now your pushing statements upon mem I have never made.
If nobody has evidence of his existence, therefore he does not exist.
All i've asked is for you, or anybody, to show me otherwise.
3 pages in, im still waiting....
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Oops, sorry, could offend the religious AND the Jewish supporters on here with that one.
.
You're a moron.
You two are just arguing back and forth, with no real care for the other's point. It sounds like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You know neither of you will get anywhere with it because neither can prove any kind of "point".
So let's take 2 sides that will never agree and never be disproven and have a good old fashioned neverending fued.
i dont believe in any god or religion... but does that mean i cant ask people on here things like "how did Cain, Abel, et al have children" "how did Noah get all those animals into his ark... what about the poor polar bear.. was he left to die... surely Noah didnt go all the way around the world collecting 2 of all species"... i dont believe but i want to know what those 'answers' might be...
I wanna know how Noah kept the salt water species seperated from the fresh water species......;)
Cheers,
NEWAGEHIPPIE
Keep your eyes open, eventually something will happen....
No one can show you a God for exactly the same reason you cannot show someone why a God cannot exist.
God does not exist. I have neither seen nor heard anything to counteract that statement.
I wasn't here a thousand years ago, ask the Normans.
If something existed, and somebody believed that thing to exist, then they could easily show me.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Comments
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
Ok then, dude, ill take evidence from someobdy else then. Video, photo, eye witness statements.
I'm easy.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
You're missing the point of the analogy I made and the intention of it, so, again, I say... forget it. I am not going to run around in circles with you aimlessly.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
What is aimless?
You likened music to the earth, God to Pearl Jam.
You then said those who do not believe in god are ignoring the creator.
I merely state that we can see Pearl Jam, nobody can see this 'god' of yours.
Thanks for the input though.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
There are many things we cannot prove or show others, like our experience of love. You cannot show me what you thought yesterday at 5:00 pm. And yet the unproveable exists.
The point is because you have not experienced God and do not know God or cannot point to God proves merely that you have not experienced God, do not know God and cannot prove he exists.
What I'm saying is you are no closer to proving your view as more sensical than mine. Because you seem to predominantly define reality as being the external world is a far cry from proving such a view as more "normal" or common-sensical than others who value the inner subjective understandings of the external world.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Ok. Take evidence from somewhere else. Now prove to me God cannot exist.
Please, feel free to pray for me if that makes you feel better. There has been more blood shed and more politics in religion than we shall ever know. Since the beginning of time (when was that?) or at least as far back as written history goes, religion has been a tool used to control the masses by fear, to proft off of the masses, and to keep peace within a "community". Most scholars will admit that it is impossible to recover the "real" or "authentic" versions of the disciples writings due to the numerous edits, assumption, and inferred meanings that have taken place over the centuries, along with the lack of ALL of the disciples writings and not just a few. It is common knowledge that in Roman times, rulers merged traditional pagan beliefs into the ever popular and growing religion know as "christianity" in order to keep the peace in their society. And this is just "christanity", but the same goes for most mass religions.
With that said, that doesn't mean there is no god, it just means that maybe what others have taught you that god is, is really just a medium to manipulate your mind in to believing what they want you to believe. Every human should look deep with in themselves and nature to find each persons individual god. God is not something to comes to you from the heavens, it is not something that will strike you down if you say fuck, and it is not something that demands attention. God answers to no particular name. God is the energy that lives in each of us, the energy that connects physically and spiritually whether you believe it or not, and you cannot create nor destroy this energy. But that is just MY god.
There are no coincidences in life, there are no mistakes if you learn from them, and there are no pre-determined lives. Some people choose to "express their spirituality" with large gatherings of folks, while having a person tell you their interpretation of their readings of a book that was written by men aobut their interpretations of certain accounts in history. I personally find that with mass groups of people, their are negative enrgies that cancel out the positive, therefore I prefer to "express my spirituality" amongst smaller groups of positive people and share energy rather than have it cancelled out by someone I may or may not even know. I pitty those who can't think for themselves and accept others interpretations about what THEIR god is......
NEWAGEHIPPIE
Keep your eyes open, eventually something will happen....
Might not... who knows?
You'll never prove it one way or the other.
I'll tell you this though, if there is a god, putting in a book what you want it to say would be one of the most backhanded, manipulative things a person could do.
I'm not an atheist, but I will never follow a religion.
p.s. new age hippie, you should really space out your words so it's easier to read
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
Ok then, show me god. Not love, or thought, but god. Show me it.
If he's there, so powerful, show me him. Or in the least, show me somebody who has.
Love and thought are chemical reactions designed to profligate the survival of the species. Dress it up in as much spiritual mumbo jumbo all you want, but we are a being based upon, consisting of, a mixture of chemicals and elements. No more than eating, sleeping, breeding machines. There is no reason to our existence other than that we exist.
Show me god.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
I agree. But those two things, what you see and what you don't see, do not necessarily conflict.
Tell me, do you believe a God cannot exist? If so, you don't believe in "nothing".
Now that makes sense.
GOD
Again, the emphasis is upon others to prove something they say to be fact.
You really do strugle keeping things on topic, on track sometimes.
Show me god. Or a photo, video, anything.
If you're accused of murder, do you have to prove you did not do something?
Sure, an alibi helps, but lack of alibi alone has never got anybody convicted for murder.
So. Show me this god.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
Nothing. Exactly!
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
As far as proof, people only see what they want to see. Including in science. What is the difference between what we've scientifically proven at this point and what we will prove in 500 years? Will a new reality system emerge in 500 years offering us the level of advancement we will achieve at that time? Or is it more likely that human awareness/consciousness will expand to unprecedented degrees that will allow us to understand more of the reality system we already exist in?
Our brain filters will only let in what we are willing to accept. What we are willing to accept is many times a far cry from what is real and what is the truth. We aren't forced to use a mere 5 or 10% of our brains. We choose to use a mere 5-10%!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Agreed! You say it is fact that a God cannot exist. The emphasis is on you.
It's not nothing. It's just nothing you can see.
No I didn't. No I didn't, and, uh... no I didn't.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
Agreed.
There are plenty of balanced, reasoned, well adjusted people who believe in a god. Grasp that.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I'm Spartacus!!
Oops, sorry, could offend the religious AND the Jewish supporters on here with that one.
Crucifixion? Oh dear...I'll get my coat.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
When? Now your pushing statements upon mem I have never made.
If nobody has evidence of his existence, therefore he does not exist.
All i've asked is for you, or anybody, to show me otherwise.
3 pages in, im still waiting....
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
You two are just arguing back and forth, with no real care for the other's point. It sounds like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. You know neither of you will get anywhere with it because neither can prove any kind of "point".
So let's take 2 sides that will never agree and never be disproven and have a good old fashioned neverending fued.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
Ok. Do you believe a god cannot exist?
So did evolution not exist 1000 years ago?
No one can show you a God for exactly the same reason you cannot show someone why a God cannot exist.
I wanna know how Noah kept the salt water species seperated from the fresh water species......;)
NEWAGEHIPPIE
Keep your eyes open, eventually something will happen....
God does not exist. I have neither seen nor heard anything to counteract that statement.
I wasn't here a thousand years ago, ask the Normans.
If something existed, and somebody believed that thing to exist, then they could easily show me.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"