i'm a little rusty on the bible, but didn't cain and abel have a butt baby?
No, they had to do it with their sisters.
I heard Donahue say the other day "what, do evolutionists think that there were apes and then 'poof', it's now a human?"
That shows gross ignorance of evolutionary theory which is to be expected... but also.. what does Donahue think? There was nothing and then 'poof',.. everything is created..
I wonder if he's one of those people who think Dinosaurs and humans coexisted... those "t-rex was a vegetarian, that's why the human race survived" people..
When you ask a silly question like ""how did Cain and Abel have children?", it seems to be implied.
are you implying incest then?
I'm not implying anything. The biblical account of the line of Adam and Eve comes from Genesis 5. Depending on which version you read, incest can be applied. But if you read the Talmud you'll find a case to be made that Adam slept with other women. Jewish traditions in particular sometimes address Adam's "other wife".
When you ask a silly question like ""how did Cain and Abel have children?", it seems to be implied.
it isnt a silly question if i dont know the answer... and yet its so 'silly' a question that you cant answer it...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
it isnt a silly question if i dont know the answer... and yet its so 'silly' a question that you cant answer it...
You can answer it if you accept the premise on which it's asked.
If you believe that there were people named Adam and Eve and you believe that they had two children named Cain and Abel and you believe that they also had numerous other sons and daughters, it becomes quite easy to answer the question in one of two ways:
1) If you further believe that there were other people besides Adam and Eve outside the bloodline, Cain and Abel and others could have children by sleeping with them.
2) If you do not believe that there were other people, Cain and Abel could have children by sleeping with their mother or sisters.
If it worked for French royalty, it could work for Adam and Eve. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
religous people who think they need to preach to the world. I'm glad for people who have found something to believe in if it makes them happy and allows them to live their life better. Trying to change someone's beliefs is a fools game, no matter how good your 'watch' example may be.
I don't think the truth about any of the magic in this world has or will ever be revealed, and I do have trouble believing the teaching of a book that's been translated in several different languages, re-written serveral times, writtten hundreds of years after the fact and is not based on historical evidence and facts. That is not to say I don't believe in a "God", just not God in a conventional sense.
Which came first,
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
If it worked for French royalty, it could work for Adam and Eve. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
and look what happened to French royalty...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
You can answer it if you accept the premise on which it's asked.
If you believe that there were people named Adam and Eve and you believe that they had two children named Cain and Abel and you believe that they also had numerous other sons and daughters, it becomes quite easy to answer the question in one of two ways:
1) If you further believe that there were other people besides Adam and Eve outside the bloodline, Cain and Abel and others could have children by sleeping with them.
2) If you do not believe that there were other people, Cain and Abel could have children by sleeping with their mother or sisters.
If it worked for French royalty, it could work for Adam and Eve. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
i dont actually believe in any of it... so its null and void to me.... but the story of the bible, to me at least, has had Cane and Abel being sole sons.. not analogies for tribes... the bible isnt poetry... it is however, brilliant fiction
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i dont actually believe in any of it... so its null and void to me.... but the story of the bible, to me at least, has had Cane and Abel being sole sons.. not analogies for tribes... the bible isnt poetry... it is however, brilliant fiction
Ok. If it's "null and void" the question is really silly. How would you feel if I asked this question:
"How did the transformers and the smurfs have children???"
That said, I don't believe in two people named Cain or Abel either. But as a side note, the Bible does not say that Cain and Abel are Adam and Eve's sole sons. That's a misconception. Read Genesis 5. Verse 4 or 5 I believe.
So, about this fish thing? I felt like we were getting somewhere there...
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Ok. If it's "null and void" the question is really silly. How would you feel if I asked this question:
"How did the transformers and the smurfs have children???"
That said, I don't believe in two people named Cain or Abel either. But as a side note, the Bible does not say that Cain and Abel are Adam and Eve's sole sons. That's a misconception. Read Genesis 5. Verse 4 or 5 I believe.
thats not silly... Optimus Prime shagged the girl smurf...
my answer is that they didnt... just as my answer to Cain and Abel having children is "they didnt".... i was asking anyone who believes in the Cain and Abel thing HOW they had children... i'm interested as to what the answer is in religious terms, from believers!
what is the churchs' official stand on the Cain and Abel query is what i'm getting at!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
The rest I know about, and could, if fiscally viable of course, take you to. Or the very least I could put you in touch with people who have SEEN what I have not, or show you other concrete evidence of that existence.
But reality is to big, so pick an item, an animal, fauna, and I yes, I can find the means, through research, to tell you, where to find those objects physically.
I ask, show me god, nobody can do that.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
And what if God does not wish to be seen on this earth?
The rest I know about, and could, if fiscally viable of course, take you to. Or the very least I could put you in touch with people who have SEEN what I have not, or show you other concrete evidence of that existence.
Can they show me everything that exists?
But reality is to big, so pick an item, an animal, fauna, and I yes, I can find the means, through research, to tell you, where to find those objects physically.
Then go ahead. Reaseach God. Show us that he doesn't exist.
Can you show me your personal experience of love? Is it real?
1) Define love.
2) I don't tell other people about that 'love' I may have, I don't go to war in the name of that love, or use that love as a tool of oppression, or brow beat other people with that love, nor do i start threads that state "I pity those without my love,"
3) Love is a chemical process in the brain. It is not an object, nor a person, but a feeling. 'God' allegedly, is an object who created the object upon which we live. Feelings cannot creat anything but more feelings.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
thats not silly... Optimus Prime shagged the girl smurf...
Ouch.
my answer is that they didnt... just as my answer to Cain and Abel having children is "they didnt".... i was asking anyone who believes in the Cain and Abel thing HOW they had children... i'm interested as to what the answer is in religious terms, from believers!
Well, you're not really asking a question when you already have an answer. It's fine by my book to believe that Cain and Abel didn't have children. But I think most religious people would give you exactly the answer I did and it is potentially valid.
what is the churchs' official stand on the Cain and Abel query is what i'm getting at!
I'm going to assume they'd tell you to read Genesis. That said, someone with greater knowledge of the organizations might be able to tell you more.
And what if God does not wish to be seen on this earth?
.
And there ended the argument.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Well, you're not really asking a question when you already have an answer.
i am, its like me asking a child where Santa lives... i dont believe in Santa and i dont know the story of where he lives... is it Lapland, North Pole, i dont know.... but i want to know what the believer of Santa has to say about it...
just because i dont believe in something doesnt mean i cant ask questions about the logic and theories of others who do believe in something...
i dont believe in any god or religion... but does that mean i cant ask people on here things like "how did Cain, Abel, et al have children" "how did Noah get all those animals into his ark... what about the poor polar bear.. was he left to die... surely Noah didnt go all the way around the world collecting 2 of all species"... i dont believe but i want to know what those 'answers' might be...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
My "god" is nature and earth and the universe. I find science to be a perfect compliment to religion.
The only divide amongst most people is between:
1. A "god" that is human like in the sky, the listening to humans type (that I don't believe in)
2.A "god" as simply everything, amazing complexity, science
3. "god" as in the order in the chaos of peoples actions in all history, the karma god
4. Like a tear in all we know, once dissolved we are free to grow...."the psychadelic experience" raises alot of questions about reality. With DMT Many come back with an experience of not an altered state but of a different place with entities you speak to. I would not recomend it to mostly everyone, its a personal choice with risk, but this is your only life so.... Stick to mushrooms or DMT if you think you can handle it. Research first, know what your doing.
I think it may be possible to know "god" better if you are an athiest for a while. May give you a clearer picture.
I don't like the whole, "this is your religion from birth programing thing", it may work for some people but I worry how it limits your reality, experience, and enjoyment of life. But it can work for some.
You have to learn how "small" you are, but also how "big" you are. Get in touch with suffering, helps with understanding people, be hungry, fast, be hot. Clear your head of what is junk. Thats how the gorge was last weekend, like a desert purification.
See the patterns in nature that keep showing up. The structure of the: Cell, solar system, ecosystem, galaxy, atom, universe, dna. In chaos there is always order if you move closer or farther away. "Telescope out" and "microscope in" to enhance your reality. "Telescope out" and "microscope in" to enhance your reality.
The point I get to in my gaian-agnosticism is:
There is the universe. Everything seems to be inside something. What is the universe inside? How could anything exist? It seems things are created and/or come from something. How could a god then exist? What came before?
There is some sorta limitation that does involve how humans perceive reality.
p.s. Killing someone is never an answer, avoid doing this in your life. If your job requires you to do this, Please, for yourself, find another job, because your boss isn't trying hard enough to understand, and certainly does not know god.
I enjoy the questions more than the answers.
I'm not slagging anyone. There was obviously thought that went into this and I respect peoples opinions provided it was a thought out one and actually has a point to it. This seems to at least meet those two general criteria. That being said...
"My "god" is nature and earth and the universe".
That's great, but to many of us that is worshipping the creation and completely neglecting the creator. Its like happening upon a Pearl Jam Album, recognizing its brilliance, and completely ignoring the fact there is a group of extremely gifted musicians that made it.
"4. Like a tear in all we know, once dissolved we are free to grow...."the psychadelic experience" raises alot of questions about reality. With DMT Many come back with an experience of not an altered state but of a different place with entities you speak to. I would not recomend it to mostly everyone, its a personal choice with risk, but this is your only life so.... Stick to mushrooms or DMT if you think you can handle it. Research first, know what your doing".
O.k. but there is multifaceted danger in seeking enlightenment through halucinegenic drugs. Lets not confuse spiritual enlightenment with being stoned out of your fucking gourd!
"I don't like the whole, "this is your religion from birth programing thing","
Nor do I. Its a mistake to imply that this is the nature of faith. As if people of faith only have faith because they we're "programmed".
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
2) I don't tell other people about that 'love' I may have, I don't go to war in the name of that love, or use that love as a tool of oppression, or brow beat other people with that love, nor do i start threads that state "I pity those without my love,"
3) Love is a chemical process in the brain. It is not an object, nor a person, but a feeling. 'God' allegedly, is an object who created the object upon which we live. Feelings cannot creat anything but more feelings.
I don't hear an answer to my question: "Can you show me your personal experience of love? Is it real?"
Is that because you cannot show your personal experience of love?
By your own logic, does your inability to point to it in the "real world" make it not real?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
That's great, but to many of us that is worshipping the creation and completely neglecting the creator. Its like happening upon a Pearl Jam Album, recognizing its brilliance, and completely ignoring the fact there is a group of extremely gifted musicians that made it.
".
Err, slightly different in the fact that most here, and millions around the world, have actually, physically seen the mebers of Pearl Jam in the flesh.
Failed analogy I think, but good try ;-)
If god existed, and he "chosoes not to reveal himself" does that make him a lover of war and death?
Surely, he would hate to see what is happening to his creations down on the planet.
And what of evolution, anyways? And really, it isn't just a theory anymore.
Were the dinosaurs an early attempt at creation? Or do you believe int he Old Testament that the earth is 6000 years old, or whatever it said based on teh number of tribes and all that malarkey.
The dinosaurs. Gotta throw a spanner in the works ,eh?
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
I don't hear an answer to my question: "Can you show me your personal experience of love? Is it real?"
to be fair nobody has answered his...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I don't hear an answer to my question: "Can you show me your personal experience of love? Is it real?"
Is that because you cannot show your personal experience of love?
By your own logic, does your inability to point to it in the "real world" make it not real?
Your question has no relavence to the point trying to be made. Its the old watch thing again, but dressed up in a different suit.
What is this personal love you speak of?
Love cannot crete the universe and heavens in 6 days, then rest on the seventh.
Your 'god', can, apparently.
Show me god, ill give you faith. Simple.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
very well written. great point. you cannot ignore this. how about this classic line
If God is almighty, then can he create a stone that he cannot carry?...thats how it goes...get the idea dont you?
Ahh... yes. The Omnipotence paradox. If God CAN create the stone, then his power is limited because there is something he cannot do. Carry the stone. If God CANNOT create such a stone, then his power is, again, limited because there is something he cannot do. Create the stone.
Its a classic line allright. Problem is,... its a classic line of bullshit.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Err, slightly different in the fact that most here, and millions around the world, have actually, physically seen the mebers of Pearl Jam in the flesh.
Failed analogy I think, but good try ;-)
?
Not different. And not a failed analogy. The analogy was never intended as proof of God. It was aimed at... oh forget it.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Your problem is that you cannot imagine something superceding the basic tools of your perception. And while simple imagination cannot prove that something supercedes your perception, the expectation that something greater than your perceptions is required to show itself to you is equally as foolish.
Comments
Not to my knowledge. But I wouldn't put it past Genesis.
Cain, Abel, and all the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve are tribes, not people.
I heard Donahue say the other day "what, do evolutionists think that there were apes and then 'poof', it's now a human?"
That shows gross ignorance of evolutionary theory which is to be expected... but also.. what does Donahue think? There was nothing and then 'poof',.. everything is created..
I wonder if he's one of those people who think Dinosaurs and humans coexisted... those "t-rex was a vegetarian, that's why the human race survived" people..
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
When you ask a silly question like ""how did Cain and Abel have children?", it seems to be implied.
I'm not implying anything. The biblical account of the line of Adam and Eve comes from Genesis 5. Depending on which version you read, incest can be applied. But if you read the Talmud you'll find a case to be made that Adam slept with other women. Jewish traditions in particular sometimes address Adam's "other wife".
it isnt a silly question if i dont know the answer... and yet its so 'silly' a question that you cant answer it...
You can answer it if you accept the premise on which it's asked.
If you believe that there were people named Adam and Eve and you believe that they had two children named Cain and Abel and you believe that they also had numerous other sons and daughters, it becomes quite easy to answer the question in one of two ways:
1) If you further believe that there were other people besides Adam and Eve outside the bloodline, Cain and Abel and others could have children by sleeping with them.
2) If you do not believe that there were other people, Cain and Abel could have children by sleeping with their mother or sisters.
If it worked for French royalty, it could work for Adam and Eve. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
I don't think the truth about any of the magic in this world has or will ever be revealed, and I do have trouble believing the teaching of a book that's been translated in several different languages, re-written serveral times, writtten hundreds of years after the fact and is not based on historical evidence and facts. That is not to say I don't believe in a "God", just not God in a conventional sense.
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
and look what happened to French royalty...
i dont actually believe in any of it... so its null and void to me.... but the story of the bible, to me at least, has had Cane and Abel being sole sons.. not analogies for tribes... the bible isnt poetry... it is however, brilliant fiction
Ok. If it's "null and void" the question is really silly. How would you feel if I asked this question:
"How did the transformers and the smurfs have children???"
That said, I don't believe in two people named Cain or Abel either. But as a side note, the Bible does not say that Cain and Abel are Adam and Eve's sole sons. That's a misconception. Read Genesis 5. Verse 4 or 5 I believe.
The sons and daughters of Adam and Eve aren't doing so hot either.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/27/mideast.main/index.html
Haha, yeah.
So, about this fish thing? I felt like we were getting somewhere there...
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
Please answer this question:
Can you point to all of reality?
thats not silly... Optimus Prime shagged the girl smurf...
my answer is that they didnt... just as my answer to Cain and Abel having children is "they didnt".... i was asking anyone who believes in the Cain and Abel thing HOW they had children... i'm interested as to what the answer is in religious terms, from believers!
what is the churchs' official stand on the Cain and Abel query is what i'm getting at!
What is reality?
I can point to all I see on this earth.
The rest I know about, and could, if fiscally viable of course, take you to. Or the very least I could put you in touch with people who have SEEN what I have not, or show you other concrete evidence of that existence.
But reality is to big, so pick an item, an animal, fauna, and I yes, I can find the means, through research, to tell you, where to find those objects physically.
I ask, show me god, nobody can do that.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
Can you show me your personal experience of love? Is it real?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Everything that exists.
And what if God does not wish to be seen on this earth?
Can they show me everything that exists?
Then go ahead. Reaseach God. Show us that he doesn't exist.
Nor can you do the opposite.
1) Define love.
2) I don't tell other people about that 'love' I may have, I don't go to war in the name of that love, or use that love as a tool of oppression, or brow beat other people with that love, nor do i start threads that state "I pity those without my love,"
3) Love is a chemical process in the brain. It is not an object, nor a person, but a feeling. 'God' allegedly, is an object who created the object upon which we live. Feelings cannot creat anything but more feelings.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
Ouch.
Well, you're not really asking a question when you already have an answer. It's fine by my book to believe that Cain and Abel didn't have children. But I think most religious people would give you exactly the answer I did and it is potentially valid.
I'm going to assume they'd tell you to read Genesis. That said, someone with greater knowledge of the organizations might be able to tell you more.
By this logic, feelings can also create actions.
And there ended the argument.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
i am, its like me asking a child where Santa lives... i dont believe in Santa and i dont know the story of where he lives... is it Lapland, North Pole, i dont know.... but i want to know what the believer of Santa has to say about it...
just because i dont believe in something doesnt mean i cant ask questions about the logic and theories of others who do believe in something...
i dont believe in any god or religion... but does that mean i cant ask people on here things like "how did Cain, Abel, et al have children" "how did Noah get all those animals into his ark... what about the poor polar bear.. was he left to die... surely Noah didnt go all the way around the world collecting 2 of all species"... i dont believe but i want to know what those 'answers' might be...
I'm not slagging anyone. There was obviously thought that went into this and I respect peoples opinions provided it was a thought out one and actually has a point to it. This seems to at least meet those two general criteria. That being said...
"My "god" is nature and earth and the universe".
That's great, but to many of us that is worshipping the creation and completely neglecting the creator. Its like happening upon a Pearl Jam Album, recognizing its brilliance, and completely ignoring the fact there is a group of extremely gifted musicians that made it.
"4. Like a tear in all we know, once dissolved we are free to grow...."the psychadelic experience" raises alot of questions about reality. With DMT Many come back with an experience of not an altered state but of a different place with entities you speak to. I would not recomend it to mostly everyone, its a personal choice with risk, but this is your only life so.... Stick to mushrooms or DMT if you think you can handle it. Research first, know what your doing".
O.k. but there is multifaceted danger in seeking enlightenment through halucinegenic drugs. Lets not confuse spiritual enlightenment with being stoned out of your fucking gourd!
"I don't like the whole, "this is your religion from birth programing thing","
Nor do I. Its a mistake to imply that this is the nature of faith. As if people of faith only have faith because they we're "programmed".
I don't hear an answer to my question: "Can you show me your personal experience of love? Is it real?"
Is that because you cannot show your personal experience of love?
By your own logic, does your inability to point to it in the "real world" make it not real?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Err, slightly different in the fact that most here, and millions around the world, have actually, physically seen the mebers of Pearl Jam in the flesh.
Failed analogy I think, but good try ;-)
If god existed, and he "chosoes not to reveal himself" does that make him a lover of war and death?
Surely, he would hate to see what is happening to his creations down on the planet.
And what of evolution, anyways? And really, it isn't just a theory anymore.
Were the dinosaurs an early attempt at creation? Or do you believe int he Old Testament that the earth is 6000 years old, or whatever it said based on teh number of tribes and all that malarkey.
The dinosaurs. Gotta throw a spanner in the works ,eh?
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
to be fair nobody has answered his...
Your question has no relavence to the point trying to be made. Its the old watch thing again, but dressed up in a different suit.
What is this personal love you speak of?
Love cannot crete the universe and heavens in 6 days, then rest on the seventh.
Your 'god', can, apparently.
Show me god, ill give you faith. Simple.
are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
god-fearing and pious: Aristotle
Viva Zapatista!
Ahh... yes. The Omnipotence paradox. If God CAN create the stone, then his power is limited because there is something he cannot do. Carry the stone. If God CANNOT create such a stone, then his power is, again, limited because there is something he cannot do. Create the stone.
Its a classic line allright. Problem is,... its a classic line of bullshit.
Not different. And not a failed analogy. The analogy was never intended as proof of God. It was aimed at... oh forget it.
Your problem is that you cannot imagine something superceding the basic tools of your perception. And while simple imagination cannot prove that something supercedes your perception, the expectation that something greater than your perceptions is required to show itself to you is equally as foolish.