Socialized Healthcare?

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  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    but you are ignoring a MAJOR difference. its ALOT easier to manage a system of 30 million users vs 300 million users.

    How so....its all proportional....population has nothing to do with it...Canada breaks it down to the provinces.....that will drastically reduce your number...the system is hardly federal.....dicated heavily by the provinces up here......
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    mammasan wrote:
    I can't comment on the Canadian system, so I have to take your word on it. As to our government, wasteful spending is as American as baseball and apple pie. It is up to the people to change that but unfortunetly the majority of the people in this country don't care enough to change it. The Dems and Reps do a hell of a good job of keeping any political parties or individuals who want to change the status quo in Washington.


    Man I hear you and that is very disappointing.....
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    I want to say something loud and clear...I do not believe my system is BEST....far fucking from it...but i believe it has the right intentions and is on the right path....look to Europe for the best models....a hybrid of public/private systems....I really want to make that clear I do not think my country's system is the best...I actively participate in debates with people how to improve the system....just wanted people here to know this.....do not to want to come across with an attitude that I am better than certain people...I just want to learn about the fears/obstacles facing Americans when dealing with this issue...I want to learn more than anything....and give examples of how the system is not what it is feared to be....
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    and sadly, people are simply lazy. take commy for example, he doesnt pay taxes, yet demands he should get free healthcare. WHY?

    "Judge not lest ye be judged." "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Ever heard these sayings? Please take them to heart.

    You are truly coming across as if you have no understanding of (or desire to understand) the world outside your own privileged existence. In reality, however, you're just one car accident away from becoming one of those "lazy" "free-loaders".

    Also, I assume Commy thinks s/he should get free healthcare if s/he doesn't have money for healthcare or (income) taxes right now - if this is even what s/he's saying - because s/he has paid taxes in the past and will probably do so in the future. During your 10-year employment with no health insurance, who paid for your healthcare? Probably Commy.

    I'm curious about your answer to my earlier question: Do you believe health care is a basic human right?
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    So are you saying today that if we both suffered a heart attack that I would get "crappier" treatment than you....honestly....not trying to be rude....just really....

    Maybe the issue is with your government...however that is something that is controlled by the people (or I thought was) therefore nothing changes until that message gets to those ranks.

    I think you need to realize not everyone can be as determined as you....which could be the fact they are not as intelligent (goes back to horrible public education), growing up in broken homes (abusive or whatever).

    One needs to look past themselves, for example I make great fucking money ($2000.00/month I am taxed at the very least) for a guy my age as a design engineer, I am opening my own clothing store in a couple months, I grew up in a great family, went to a great school...however not for one second did I ever believe that everyone else got this opportunity...not everyone can walk a nice path....there are obstacles that so many people have faced that could have caused me to "cave" down another road.

    What I am trying to say everyone's path through life is different, not all are going to go my or your route that has given us success...many simply are hindered long ago by factors that you and I cannot conceive.....yeah there are options available but for some people that have had there life fucked up by someone/thing else these options do not come in perfect clarity as they do to you or I.

    I choose to help these people by actively participating in my system and being a supporter of it (however I see problems as well as nothing is perfect...but nothing to the problems with the American system...consider where all the other countries have led their systems and their success). No system can be perfect but many are better.

    If you guys are truely afraid of your government remember at the end of the day you put them there.

    you are missing my point. first of all, stop comparing your system to a system that we could possibly have. maybe compare Canada to California. they are similar in size. like she said, size matters.

    secondly, its not like I dont want to help people who truly need help. far from it. I'd support a system that one can maybe apply for special benefits if they lost their job, spouse death, below a certain income level, etc. and maybe healthcare coverage for children under a certain age. (and seniors, which is already in place)

    IMO. what will NOT work is a blanket UHC system in the US for all. and you can scream all day that I should just look north and how perfect it is. thats irrelevant.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    you are missing my point. first of all, stop comparing your system to a system that we could possibly have. maybe compare Canada to California. they are similar in size. like she said, size matters.

    secondly, its not like I dont want to help people who truly need help. far from it. I'd support a system that one can maybe apply for special benefits if they lost their job, spouse death, below a certain income level, etc. and maybe healthcare coverage for children under a certain age. (and seniors, which is already in place)

    IMO. what will NOT work is a blanket UHC system in the US for all. and you can scream all day that I should just look north and how perfect it is. thats irrelevant.

    Where the hell did I say it was perfect? (Refer to post #144 for my statement before this post).

    I will say I believe my system is headed in a better directionthan the American one...however lags compared to the countries (Norway, France, England, Sweden) and lags badly...but still a step in the right direction.....
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    mammasan wrote:
    My concern is not about having my tax dollars help other, but about the wasteful spending our government does. Just look at the Medicare prescription drug plan. I would have no problem with a universal healthcare plan if our government where not so inept and so prone to mismanaging social programs.

    So that's a great starting point for working things out, right? I think many people feel the same way you do. Where can we go from here? How can we devise a universal healthcare plan that addresses these concerns?
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    scb wrote:
    "Judge not lest ye be judged." "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." Ever heard these sayings? Please take them to heart.

    You are truly coming across as if you have no understanding of (or desire to understand) the world outside your own privileged existence. In reality, however, you're just one car accident away from becoming one of those "lazy" "free-loaders".

    time the fuck out. how do I have a "privileged" existence? I came from nothing. everything I have came from hard work and determination.
    scb wrote:
    Also, I assume Commy thinks s/he should get free healthcare if s/he doesn't have money for healthcare or (income) taxes right now - if this is even what s/he's saying - because s/he has paid taxes in the past and will probably do so in the future. During your 10-year employment with no health insurance, who paid for your healthcare? Probably Commy.
    and who paid for my healthcare during my 10 year career with that company? I did. straight out of pocket. commy didnt contribute a dime, nor would I ask him to.

    scb wrote:
    I'm curious about your answer to my earlier question: Do you believe health care is a basic human right?

    this is a loaded question. to have health care someone needs to provide a service of giving it to me.

    so do I think its my right to force someone to provide me a service? no.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    I want to say something loud and clear...I do not believe my system is BEST....far fucking from it...but i believe it has the right intentions and is on the right path....look to Europe for the best models....a hybrid of public/private systems....I really want to make that clear I do not think my country's system is the best...I actively participate in debates with people how to improve the system....just wanted people here to know this.....do not to want to come across with an attitude that I am better than certain people...I just want to learn about the fears/obstacles facing Americans when dealing with this issue...I want to learn more than anything....and give examples of how the system is not what it is feared to be....

    I believe that a state by state system would probably work best in this country. The public definitely has a bit more of a handle on state level government than they do on the federal level. Even with this idea you would still encounter problem in some states where they spend money like a spoiled brat with their parent's credit card, my home state of New Jersey is a prime example of that. Even considerin g this the people can make more of an impact on state government.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    thats bullshit. there are plenty of jobs available that offer health benefits. flipping burgers? do the fast food chains of america not offer such benefits?
    mcdonalds for example.

    Most places say they offer benefits, but really they only offer them to full-time employees and make sure no one works over 39 hours per week so that way they don't qualify. Someone's got to do these jobs to maintain your and my American way of life. :rolleyes:
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    mammasan wrote:
    I believe that a state by state system would probably work best in this country. The public definitely has a bit more of a handle on state level government than they do on the federal level. Even with this idea you would still encounter problem in some states where they spend money like a spoiled brat with their parent's credit card, my home state of New Jersey is a prime example of that. Even considerin g this the people can make more of an impact on state government.

    In Canada it really is the provinces that run it...I do not carry a "Canadian Health Care Card"...right now I carry an "Alberta Health Card"...previously to that a "Saskatchewan Health Card"......however I can get the same care/treatment regardless of the province I am in.....as there are no obstacles preventing that....
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    scb wrote:
    Most places say they offer benefits, but really they only offer them to full-time employees and make sure no one works over 39 hours per week so that way they don't qualify. Someone's got to do these jobs to maintain your and my American way of life. :rolleyes:

    ok well I see nothing wrong with being a full time employee. and not sure where u get your info from either
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    ok well I see nothing wrong with being a full time employee. and not sure where u get your info from either

    No, my point is that the employers won't LET you OFFICIALLY be a full time employee. I get my info from years of personal experience and observing the situations of others.

    I'll have to reply to your other post later - I've got to go now.
  • Dylan Stone
    Dylan Stone Posts: 1,145
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    secondly, its not like I dont want to help people who truly need help. far from it. I'd support a system that one can maybe apply for special benefits if they lost their job, spouse death, below a certain income level, etc. and maybe healthcare coverage for children under a certain age. (and seniors, which is already in place)

    Back to the "worthy poor."

    Oh...Let's means test your assistance need by way of your "need."

    Dead spouse? Check.

    Abusive husband that you left? Fuck ya.

    6 year old son? Check.

    16 year old daughter than needs OB/GYN exams? Fuck ya.

    Ah yes. The American dream. And seniors health care in place? What world do you live in? Do you really live in the US? My uncle is just one example. The man is 82. He is a US Army veteran. He has veteran's benefits and Medicare. He is still working because his medications run him over $700/month (that may be him and my aunt combined...not sure...) Good thing Uncle Caesar is "determined" or he and Aunt Rose would be dead.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    scb wrote:
    No, my point is that the employers won't LET you OFFICIALLY be a full time employee. I get my info from years of personal experience and observing the situations of others.

    I'll have to reply to your other post later - I've got to go now.

    This was a big deal when the Government of Saskatchewan was proposing some alteration to the law in regards to wages and as a counter mesaure business was going to cap certain employees at 35-39 hours/week so they did not fall within the "full-time" range...it was not the employees decison it was the employer...different situation of course but I get and know what you are getting at....
  • Dylan Stone
    Dylan Stone Posts: 1,145
    scb wrote:
    Most places say they offer benefits, but really they only offer them to full-time employees and make sure no one works over 39 hours per week so that way they don't qualify.

    My old agency did exactly that to the "non-exempt" employees.

    These were mostly child care workers making about $9.00/hour.
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    GTFLYGIRL wrote:
    Back to the "worthy poor."

    Oh...Let's means test your assistance need by way of your "need."

    Dead spouse? Check.

    Abusive husband that you left? Fuck ya.

    6 year old son? Check.

    16 year old daughter than needs OB/GYN exams? Fuck ya.

    Ah yes. The American dream. And seniors health care in place? What world do you live in? Do you really live in the US? My uncle is just one example. The man is 82. He is a US Army veteran. He has veteran's benefits and Medicare. He is still working because his medications run him over $700/month (that may be him and my aunt combined...not sure...) Good thing Uncle Caesar is "determined" or he and Aunt Rose would be dead.

    you need to calm the fuck down. my grandfather received plenty of assistance through medicare. I live in the USA. how bout u?
  • lazymoon13
    lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    scb wrote:
    No, my point is that the employers won't LET you OFFICIALLY be a full time employee. I get my info from years of personal experience and observing the situations of others.

    I'll have to reply to your other post later - I've got to go now.

    my first job ever was at mcdonalds. (granted it was a lonnnnng time ago) but I worked 40 hours a week and had healthcare. maybe policies have changed and you know more about this then I. sadly, you cant provide proof of your claims. but I don't think you are lying.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Does it bother you that they are getting a 'free ride'?

    Not really. What bothers me is that they use force to get it.
    Is your life going to drastically change now that they have easier access to medical care?

    Not particularly, no. I don't judge things on whether or not my "life is going to drastically change". The Iraq War didn't drastically change my life, but I don't support it.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    baraka wrote:
    I believe I know the answer to this question, but do you think children that attend public schools are getting a 'free ride'?

    No -- their parents often are.
    Do you see a difference between public schools and a national health care system?

    In the context of your question, not really.

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