Socialized Healthcare?
potluck
Posts: 170
How could we possibly pay for a comprehensive universal healthcare plan? The average two child family in Quebec pays close to $5000 per year in taxes just to cover their share of the bill, which is much more than anybody pays for comprehensive private health insurance in America.
I have a 15 page paper due thursday on the subject for my Public Admin course. I am suppose to figure out how to make it work without increasing taxes too much. Any help would be appreciated.
All the liturature ive found seems to sidestep the issue of how to pay for it all.
I have a 15 page paper due thursday on the subject for my Public Admin course. I am suppose to figure out how to make it work without increasing taxes too much. Any help would be appreciated.
All the liturature ive found seems to sidestep the issue of how to pay for it all.
06/24/1998 SD
10/12/2000 KS
06/13/2003 IA
06/15/2003 ND
06/16/2003 Mn
06/21/2003 WI
10/05/2004 MO
10/08/2004 FL
09/08/2005 MB
09/09/2005 ON
05/17/2006 IL
05/19/2006 MI
07/02/2006 CO
08/05/2007 Lolla
06/14/2008 B'roo
Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
10/12/2000 KS
06/13/2003 IA
06/15/2003 ND
06/16/2003 Mn
06/21/2003 WI
10/05/2004 MO
10/08/2004 FL
09/08/2005 MB
09/09/2005 ON
05/17/2006 IL
05/19/2006 MI
07/02/2006 CO
08/05/2007 Lolla
06/14/2008 B'roo
Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Not when you add in out of pocket, deductables and refusals of coverage....
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
$5,000/year = $417/month.....very reasonable for comprehensive pvt insurance for a family of 4!
I think the problem would be administering a universal healthcare plan...the govt is way too inefficient to handle such a plan without raising taxes.
Seems like if they got rid of the insurance companies altogether that would save a LOT of money. Not only would we not have to pay the salaries of all the insurance company employees & CEOs, but hospitals would no longer need to employ all they people whose sole job is to deal with & figure out the insurance companies. And of course if the money people currently spend on premiums, deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance, medication, etc. went more directly into healthcare instead of being going toward the profit of insurance companies, that would really add up. Additionally, people who have healthcare more readily available will be more likely to take preventative measures that will lower the incidence of more complicated and costly remedies. That's my $0.02 anyway.
P.S. I just calculated that I spend $2160/year just for premiums - just for myself - and I have the cheapest available insurance, and I work at a HOSPITAL! And that doesn't include medication, co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles, or my tax money that already pays for Medicaid. $5000 for a family of 4 really does sound good to me.
You can't just get rid of insurance companies. Those companies employ a ton of people who would then be out of work and without medical coverage. Socialized medicine in the US is a dream or perhaps the better word would be nightmare. Christ, the FDA spends all this time before approving medicines and then they turn out to not be safe anyway.
Our government can't even keep up with making sure our roads and other infrastructure are maintained and safe and we want to give them control of medical care for 350 MILLION people. No thanks.
While something needs to be done about healthcare for the uninsured and the over all cost of healthcare I don't see univeral healthcare as a solution. Insurance companies, like them or not, have to be involved in the plan.
Why not offer tax breaks to the uninsured and underinsured to pay for medical coverage?
Why not give companies that pay 100% of employee premiums a tax break? This will give the company incentive to pay for healthcare coverage and put more money in peoples pockets to put back into the economy.
http://inthepresenttense.blogspot.com/
But the whole point is that you wouldn't need medical "coverage" in order to get healthcare if you abolished insurance companies. The idea that people are screwed because they can't get healthcare if they lose their jobs is my point exactly.
As far as being out of work goes, there are plenty of other jobs in the country. Even in healthcare, for instance; we have a shortage of healthcare professionals. Seems like if the insurance company people got trained to become healthcare professionals that might solve two problems at once! Or why don't those people work other jobs that are actually important, like teaching or any number of other things? Or those people could do similar work within the universal healthcare system - although we wouldn't need nearly as many of them.
I just don't think fear of people losing their jobs is a good reason to hold on to an industry whose sole purpose is to serve as the middle-man who takes money for their own profit from people seeking access to a basic human right. The purpose of healthcare reform is to give people access to healthcare. Insurance companies only get in the way. The simple fact that they're a for-profit industry shows that at least some of the money people pay for healthcare is being diverted into some CEO's wallet. If you want to keep them around, they should only be used for procedures that aren't medically necessary, like cosmetic surgery.
Tax breaks for individuals don't help people who don't make enough money to pay taxes. Tax breaks for employers don't help people who don't have jobs.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Ralph_Nader.htm#Health_Care
http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Ralph_Nader_Health_Care.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2000/1013-02.htm
3.5% payroll tax and a <1% tax on certain stock transactions to fund universal healthcare
Where the government hands an annual billion-dollar revenue earner [like exclusive licenses to distribute government-researched medicines] to a private company for a pittance, is it too much to ask the relevant federal agency to enforce reasonable pricing requirements? This has resulted in a failure to avert preventable cancer deaths.
Use Canadian system as a model for US
North of the border, the Canadians said:
Universal health from cradle through nursing home;
You don’t have to see a bill;
We’re going to do it on 10% of the economy;
We’re going to spend 11 cents per dollar on administrative costs;
We’re going to give you the freedom to choose your own doctor and hospital;
We’re going to relieve the anxiety of losing a lifetime of savings to an illness.
Down South of the border:
We’re spending 15% of our economy and we’re not even covering everybody, almost 50 million uninsured and millions grossly under-covered;
Worrying about pre-existing conditions, co-payments, and other fine print, to take away your right to bring these HMOs to justice after they deny you health care;
24 cents on every dollar on administration, not to mention $100 billion in billing fraud every year;
And more and more we can’t choose our own doctors and hospitals, so were losing our choice.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
What?
10/12/2000 KS
06/13/2003 IA
06/15/2003 ND
06/16/2003 Mn
06/21/2003 WI
10/05/2004 MO
10/08/2004 FL
09/08/2005 MB
09/09/2005 ON
05/17/2006 IL
05/19/2006 MI
07/02/2006 CO
08/05/2007 Lolla
06/14/2008 B'roo
Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
edit : here you have lots of paper on healthcare if you have time to read them.
thanks, that link looks pretty nice, i'll have to go back to it when i have more time. i have some good links on my blog about universal health care but was too lazy to go get them
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
its examples like this why nadar is a fucking moron. taxing stock transactions is the worst idea in history. do that and watch how fast people stop trading stocks here.
another bonehead thing to do. these countries and systems can not and should not be compared. we are 10 times larger. canada's population is smaller then california. the system in America can definitely use some changes no doubt about it
people will simply stop trading stocks here. NYSE will fast move down the list in volume. china, london, dubai, hong kong, shanghai, germany, france.....thats will all stock trading will move.
well said. I'm so confused why some people want America to turn into a socialist state. lazymoon thinks its because people are fucking lazy and just want to put heir hand out. I digress. you make very good points here. UHC in this country would be a disaster. we can make changes to the system for the better while still giving the people the freedom of choice
The real argument is quality and the ability of our government to actually produce something worthwhile without it being taken advantage of or basically wrecked by the people who need it most.
I think there probably needs to be some semblence of both public and private care to maintain high quality and availability.
Competiton true competition would help the industry. Currently there is none. People who are treated who can't pay simply throw the bills away, people who can pay have thier bills jacked up to cover those who can't... and I could give a shit less about the insurance industry who are the root cause of the issue to begin with basically convincing the US to go to employer backed care where costs are hidden. I've never seen a destitute insurance official.
The argument is always so one sided. I disagree. I think there is a vast need for some better redily available public facilities where people can go if they need care, information, help etc... There is also a value in having insurance for high cost procedures and long term care which would be a titanic drain on the economy if we had government sponsored care just as it has been on corporations.
90% of my care has been 10 minute, wave at the patient settings that cost me 40 bucks and the insurance company 2 to 300 dollars... ridiculous wastes of money and time. Not to mention lost productivity, driving time, work time, wait time in the doctor office etc. etc. They only use these to bolster thier pocketbooks, most people don't need 3 month followups, you call the doc when something goes wrong anyway.
Preventative Health Care and education of the poorest people would only be a plus for the economy and likely help the strained system. You can lead a horse to water obviously, if people don't care they'll still do stupid things, after all we've known about smoking and lung cancer for a long time now and obviously people don't give a shit about obesity but teaching people about clean practices does help the average public helps and slows spread of diesease... at least until the next superbug comes along and wipes us all out...
Like everything you get what you pay for provided the money is strictly accounted for.
Of course we should try and make efforts so that healthcare is readily available for all and not going to leave you with no life to comeback to when you are healthy again.... but Americans.... individually need to take ownership of thier lives and decisions individually before anything collective becomes truely worthwhile and possible. In some areas it is, in others... they are just waiting for someone else to make something happen. It that situation, you're just asking for embezzlement and trouble by throwing money at it. They don't just need money they need guidance and oversite.
I have a PPO plan through United Health Care and pay about $9000 a year for myself, my wife, and son. And this is considered a good plan through my employer. So... sign me up!!
stop spending billions fighting shit wars and copy the UK system.
just hand that one sentence in as your final paper.... you'll fail but ultimately you'll be the coolest kid on campus for all of ...ooohhhh.... 17 minutes.
"Stuff White People Like"
#94 Free Healthcare
April 4, 2008 by clander
In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.
But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.
The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal marijuana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.
These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.
But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.
If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.
Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.
This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.
there you have it my friend.
honestly though, this is no place to find sources for a paper. ask your prof or TA for advice.
I realize you really really love these "stuff white people like" links, and they're kind of funny, but really, can we just change it to "stuff liberals like" to be more accurate? I'm thinking this is your way of making fun of things. Do you have your own ideas on this issue?
Absolutely.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=113995
Right on. Very well put together. Except you're overlooking the fact that Ed is a white person, and white people like fancy European beers, so he wouldn't be singing about Natural Light, he'd be singing about Miradsous or something.
But he did move from Chicago to Seattle so that he could be by the water (ref: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/51-living-by-the-water/), so they offset.
Simple - cut the military budget in half. That'll pay for it all, and then some. Until of course you've increased demand to such a point that prices get even worse, you have to cap them, and then you eviscerate the system as a whole. But, hey, there's nothing wrong with shortsightedness when it comes to big government.
That's probably an easy focus for an A paper too.
Nothing like finding out what they think and regurgitating it.
Except the ethical problem of stealing people's money.
Not particularly. Insurance company profits represent a small percentage of overall dollars in the system (< 10%).
That's right! But don't forget that you have to replace them with bureaucrats that can never be fired within agencies that do nothing but grow.
That's silly. People would then be spending money not "directly into healthcare" but rather directly into a bureaucracy whose mandate would be to supply healthcare. There's a difference, and that difference is more dangerous in the long run than insurance company profits.
Why would you ever think people would be "more likely to take preventative measures" when you just removed any financial reason to do so??? The only way people will do this is if you also force them to do it.
It's not "$5000". It's $5000 for you + thousands more for other people who have to pickup the tab for you.
It's not irrational at all. That is until you start to realize that all the world's problems stem from someone deciding that their values justify a given injustice.
In other words, the antithesis to injustice is justice, not just a different injustice.
Now I know I can't prove that the value "save human lives" is relatively more just than "save my money", but I'll think about how to do that.
But this is kind of beyond the subject of the thread!
On the subject of funding, don't you think that by having a uhc you'll make the health related costs go down? :
1- the government accepts to pay a limited amount for a given service, for everyone. Let's say for example 20$/exam.
2- the vast majority (the middle class I guess) will give up their insurance and use the uhc and will have to stick to that 20$ limit when choosing the dr they want to see.
3- given the high demand for 20$ exam more and more dr/hospitals will propose this fare thus lowering the general cost.