Socialized Healthcare?

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Comments

  • lazymoon13 wrote:
    educating themselves.


    there will always be the poor, those born into poverty, those that fall through the cracks and those that make mistakes.

    You don't just shrug your shoulders while others suffer.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    I'll do and say and judge whoever I want?

    Clearly. I'm just saying you're wrong and you haven't proven differently.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    lose the fucking attitude.

    Oh, HELL no!!

    I believe you're the one who invited the attitude.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    I can make up numbers and %'s too. but then you would just call me a lair.

    If you're accusing me of making up stats or you're asking for sources, why don't you just say that and I'll gladly provide them. Please be direct. If you're going to accuse people of dishonesty, don't be weak about it.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    sorry I don't support stupidity and irresponsibility.

    It's clear that you wouldn't recognize stupidity or irresponsibility if it were staring at you in the mirror.
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    if you cant take on the responsibility of having children, dont have sex.

    I truly hope you have a wife who shares your beliefs.
  • prismprism Posts: 2,440
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    just because you say something doesnt make it fact. ahhh only on the moving train.

    The percentage of all employers offering health insurance in the past eight years peaked in 2000 at 69% and has fallen steadily since, hitting 60% this year, according to an annual survey of employers by the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation. Among small firms of three to nine workers, the percentage offering insurance has dropped even more — from 58% in 2001 to 45% this year.

    •From 2001 to 2005, the number of uninsured U.S. workers rose by 3.4 million. Almost 19 million workers — 17% of all employees — were uninsured in 2005, according to the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured.



    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2007-11-12-social-net_N.htm
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
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  • __ Posts: 6,651
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    I paid for my own private school. keep in mind you know NOTHING about me. and yes I have a family. I dont think im in the minority.

    You paid for your own private school since you were 5 years old?! :eek:

    Please, do tell us about yourself. Seriously.
  • lazymoon13lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    GTFLYGIRL wrote:
    Oh...I guess it was a little confusing as a few posts back you stated you paid for your own private school.

    OK. Well I guess the home schooling would explain the egocentric attitude and the lack of understanding of what is happening societally.

    never said I was home schooled. just asked if you heard of it.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    absolutely!

    Then it's time to pay me back. Please make all checks payable to UHC...
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    how about the people who don't? like commy. why should he get a say? no not a say? why should he get to demand I pay for him.

    Why do we keep talking about Commy when we don't really know his circumstances?

    I'm talking about me. I want universal healthcare. And I pay taxes just like you do so your desires are no more valid than mine.
  • lazymoon13lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    prism wrote:
    The percentage of all employers offering health insurance in the past eight years peaked in 2000 at 69% and has fallen steadily since, hitting 60% this year, according to an annual survey of employers by the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation. Among small firms of three to nine workers, the percentage offering insurance has dropped even more — from 58% in 2001 to 45% this year.

    •From 2001 to 2005, the number of uninsured U.S. workers rose by 3.4 million. Almost 19 million workers — 17% of all employees — were uninsured in 2005, according to the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured.



    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2007-11-12-social-net_N.htm

    so people can try and find work at an employer who offers health coverage? cool
  • lazymoon13lazymoon13 Posts: 838
    scb wrote:
    Why do we keep talking about Commy when we don't really know his circumstances?
    he admitted to not paying taxes.
    scb wrote:
    I'm talking about me. I want universal healthcare. And I pay taxes just like you do so your desires are no more valid than mine.

    feel free to send your own money to the IRS and ask them to pay for my healthcare. I wont accept but the option is yours.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    educating themselves.

    I'm pretty sure stay-at-home-to-educate-my-kids moms don't pay income taxes either.

    Regardless, anyone who has the resources to do this is necessarily privileged.
  • Dylan StoneDylan Stone Posts: 1,145
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    never said I was home schooled. just asked if you heard of it.
    GTFLYGIRL wrote:
    If you had enough money to pay for private kindergarten yourself......
    News Flash. You are fare more privileged than others.

    I know that you said you didn't come from a privileged background!

    So...as stated...You DO come from privilege!

    Anyone who pays for an entire life of private school in a country where they don't need to...and who intentionally bypasses the Stafford Loans...MUST come from a lot more of a privileged background than you believe you do.

    So THAT explains your egocentric attitude.

    It's yours...so you might as well own it!
  • prismprism Posts: 2,440
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    so people can try and find work at an employer who offers health coverage? cool

    and with fewer employers offering health coverage would that make it less likey that they will find it.

    and none of it even accounts for those uninsured that are self-employed and can not get approved for or afford to buy their own health insurance
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
    angels share laughter
    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    he admitted to not paying taxes.

    That doesn't mean we know his circumstances. Life is complex. It's not divided into black and white - who pays taxes and who doesn't.

    He could be quadriplegic now for all we know. He could be staying home to take care of his sick mother or children - or any number of things.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    GTFLYGIRL wrote:
    So...as stated...You DO come from privilege!

    Anyone who pays for an entire life of private school in a country where they don't need to...and who intentionally bypasses the Stafford Loans...MUST come from a lot more of a privileged background than you believe you do.

    So THAT explains your egocentric attitude.

    It's yours...so you might as well own it!

    Maybe he's got such an attitude because he feels guilty about his own privilege and doesn't know how to own/deal with it. It's a theory anyway... It's hard to tell when he refuses to let us know anything about him - or whether he even is a him.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    I can make up numbers and %'s too.
    scb wrote:
    49% of pregnancies in the US are unintended.

    Finer LB, Henshaw SK. Disparities in rates of unintended pregnancy in the United States, 1994 and 2001. Perspect Sex Reprod Health. 2006;38:90-96.
    scb wrote:
    One of the primary reasons the US has one of the highest (most shameful) rates of unintended pregnancies in the developed world is because of our lack of universal health care

    Espey E, Cosgrove E, Ogburn T. Family planning American style: why it's so hard to control birth in the US. Obstet Gynecol Clin North Am. 2007;34:1-17, vii.
    scb wrote:
    while unintended pregnancy was decreasing by 20% among wealthier women, it was increasing by 29% among poorer women.

    Finer LB, Henshaw SK. Disparities in rates of unintended pregnancy in the United States, 1994 and 2001. Perspect Sex Reprod Health. 2006;38:90-96.
    scb wrote:
    pills are $30/month

    Stevens A. Sticker Shock. Ms. 2007;17:12-13.
    scb wrote:
    EC is $40 a pop

    Walgreens. (505) 881-5210
    scb wrote:
    IUDs are $400

    (Up to $800)

    Planned Parenthood. (505) 265-3722
    scb wrote:
    89% of women who are at risk for unintended pregnancy use birth control.

    Physicians for Reproductive Choice and Health, Guttmacher Institute. An Overview of Abortion in the United States. January 2008. http://www.guttmacher.org/presentations/ab_slides.html.
    scb wrote:
    BIRTH CONTROL FAILS. Even tubal ligations and vasectomies fail.

    http://www.reproductiveaccess.org/contraception/contra_info.htm

    Baill IC, Cullins VE, Pati S. Counseling issues in tubal sterilization. Am Fam Physician. 2003;67:1287-94,1301-2.

    Jamieson DJ, Costello C, Trussell J, Hillis SD, Marchbanks PA, Peterson HB. The risk of pregnancy after vasectomy. Obstet Gynecol. 2004;103:848-50.
  • potluckpotluck Posts: 170
    lazymoon13 wrote:
    see, my only concern about UHC is that the quality of care will fall. thats makes me passionate about fellow humans right? I support a system somewhere inbetween UHC and the current system. what I do NOT want is the dumbfuck government to have complete control of the system. and sadly, people are simply lazy. take commy for example, he doesnt pay taxes, yet demands he should get free healthcare. WHY?

    socialized anything breeds lazyness. Work force motivation lacks in countries with social governments. UHC is the beginning of a long slippery sloap.
    06/24/1998 SD
    10/12/2000 KS
    06/13/2003 IA
    06/15/2003 ND
    06/16/2003 Mn
    06/21/2003 WI
    10/05/2004 MO
    10/08/2004 FL
    09/08/2005 MB
    09/09/2005 ON
    05/17/2006 IL
    05/19/2006 MI
    07/02/2006 CO
    08/05/2007 Lolla
    06/14/2008 B'roo

    Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
  • potluckpotluck Posts: 170
    hello?
    06/24/1998 SD
    10/12/2000 KS
    06/13/2003 IA
    06/15/2003 ND
    06/16/2003 Mn
    06/21/2003 WI
    10/05/2004 MO
    10/08/2004 FL
    09/08/2005 MB
    09/09/2005 ON
    05/17/2006 IL
    05/19/2006 MI
    07/02/2006 CO
    08/05/2007 Lolla
    06/14/2008 B'roo

    Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    potluck wrote:
    socialized anything breeds lazyness. Work force motivation lacks in countries with social governments. UHC is the beginning of a long slippery sloap.
    would you mind explaining your thought? And do add examples please.
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    scb wrote:
    But isn't this what makes us a society? You know, the social contract and all that good stuff.

    What makes us a society is a willingness to work together to tackle common challenges. Absent that willingness, you do not have a "society", per se, you have slave quarters.
    My value: Don't kill people.

    Good value.
    Government: We'll use force to keep you from killing people.

    Potentially dangerous ideology.
    You can't say everyone shares this value, and yet they are being forced to live by it. That's just one example, of course.

    Everyone does not share that value -- you're very correct. Yet they're not being "forced to live by it". There is simply a law against killing people. You're still free to kill anyone you'd like. A person who is willing to kill someone cannot complain about enforcement of a law against their actions -- they've demostrated by their actions that they have no respect for human life or rights. Enforcing a law against murder is not the initiation of force. It is a response to force.

    Many other laws, however, do not work this way. To forcefully detain someone because you think they might harm someone else is an intitiation of force, not a response to force. Forcing someone to pay for your healthcare is an initiation of force, not a response to it.

    Wise societies eschew force, as opposed to embracing it.
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    potluck wrote:
    socialized anything breeds lazyness. Work force motivation lacks in countries with social governments. UHC is the beginning of a long slippery sloap.

    Bullshit.....provide me with something that dictates how a democratic country with UHC (Canada, many European countries) breeds laziness....this is a fear mongering statement along the lines of the "government will tell you who you can/cannot see"....this comment really pisses me of because you have no idea what you are talking about....lets see proof to this comment....
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Bullshit.....provide me with something that dictates how a democratic country with UHC (Canada, many European countries) breeds laziness....this is a fear mongering statement along the lines of the "government will tell you who you can/cannot see"....this comment really pisses me of because you have no idea what you are talking about....lets see proof to this comment....

    Amen.
  • potluckpotluck Posts: 170
    Bullshit.....provide me with something that dictates how a democratic country with UHC (Canada, many European countries) breeds laziness....this is a fear mongering statement along the lines of the "government will tell you who you can/cannot see"....this comment really pisses me of because you have no idea what you are talking about....lets see proof to this comment....

    european states have higher education rates than the United States, yet there unemployment rates are higher than ours. Places like India have just as high of education rates as Europe but with capitalism have been able to provide themselves with a much more efficient dollar and work force. I personally chalk it up to the power of competition/ aka not socialism. when u give up one liberty you run the risk of giving up all freedoms. I personally dont want the gov to have anything to do with my life besides building my roads and schools. I can police myself and provide for my own health. oh yeah.... and you, yeah....... you liberal, leave me and my country alone!
    06/24/1998 SD
    10/12/2000 KS
    06/13/2003 IA
    06/15/2003 ND
    06/16/2003 Mn
    06/21/2003 WI
    10/05/2004 MO
    10/08/2004 FL
    09/08/2005 MB
    09/09/2005 ON
    05/17/2006 IL
    05/19/2006 MI
    07/02/2006 CO
    08/05/2007 Lolla
    06/14/2008 B'roo

    Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    potluck wrote:
    I can... provide for my own health.

    Seriously? Are you a doctor?

    potluck wrote:
    oh yeah.... and you, yeah....... you liberal, leave me and my country alone!

    Whose country? I believe the country belongs just as much to the liberals as to the conservatives, no?
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    potluck wrote:
    socialized anything breeds lazyness. Work force motivation lacks in countries with social governments. UHC is the beginning of a long slippery sloap.

    I'm not a huge fan of socialized healthcare, but your comment is simply ridiculous. You have no proof to back up that statement.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    mammasan wrote:
    I'm not a huge fan of socialized healthcare, but your comment is simply ridiculous. You have no proof to back up that statement.
    In fact the opposite is true. In a way. The motivation in a socialist society is actually very high, in the labor force, in theory, as the workers tend to see the immediate results of their labor, in the local community. The motivation changes, from that of the individual to that of the community, as the labor and resources actually benefit the local communities as opposed to some far away minority.
  • HoonHoon Posts: 175
    You know potlucks thread got me to thinking. Perhaps "Socilized Healthcare" is a horrible idea. So I did some research and found a solution!

    Single Payer, Not For Profit, Universal Health Care!

    It can be found in HR676

    Here is an explanation of the Health Insurance problem and how it will be fixed with Health Care: Universal Health Care
    If you keep yourself as the final arbiter you will be less susceptible to infection from cultural illusion.
  • Hoon wrote:
    You know potlucks thread got me to thinking. Perhaps "Socilized Healthcare" is a horrible idea. So I did some research and found a solution!

    Single Payer, Not For Profit, Universal Health Care!

    It can be found in HR676

    Here is an explanation of the Health Insurance problem and how it will be fixed with Health Care: Universal Health Care

    Hmmmm

    You just might be on to something!


    :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    potluck wrote:
    european states have higher education rates than the United States, yet there unemployment rates are higher than ours. Places like India have just as high of education rates as Europe but with capitalism have been able to provide themselves with a much more efficient dollar and work force. I personally chalk it up to the power of competition/ aka not socialism. when u give up one liberty you run the risk of giving up all freedoms. I personally dont want the gov to have anything to do with my life besides building my roads and schools. I can police myself and provide for my own health. oh yeah.... and you, yeah....... you liberal, leave me and my country alone!

    Regardless of you being sarcastic or not where did I ever say I was "liberal"...did we talk somewhere...fucking sick of the generalizations people make based on ONE opinion...for matter of fact I have heavily left leaning in regards to social issues....however I am more right/moderate when it comes to fiscal issues....

    One should know that the majority of Conservatives in Canada support UHC...has nothing to do with being Liberal....it is helping your fellow man...
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    potluck wrote:
    european states have higher education rates than the United States, yet there unemployment rates are higher than ours. Places like India have just as high of education rates as Europe but with capitalism have been able to provide themselves with a much more efficient dollar and work force. I personally chalk it up to the power of competition/ aka not socialism. when u give up one liberty you run the risk of giving up all freedoms. I personally dont want the gov to have anything to do with my life besides building my roads and schools. I can police myself and provide for my own health. oh yeah.... and you, yeah....... you liberal, leave me and my country alone!

    Okay how is UHC assocaited with giving up freedom?

    I can see any doctor I choose no matter where they are.

    What is the average income tax rate in States....I am curious about something..and would appreciate if I could get a number from someone....also the average health insurance costs.

    Thanks if anyone can provide me with this.
  • potluckpotluck Posts: 170
    Okay how is UHC assocaited with giving up freedom?

    I can see any doctor I choose no matter where they are.

    What is the average income tax rate in States....I am curious about something..and would appreciate if I could get a number from someone....also the average health insurance costs.

    Thanks if anyone can provide me with this.
    i dont pay state income tax.


    also, im just saying UHC inhibits the free market. you cant say it doesnt. canada's model prohibits insurance companies....giving up freedom. If i were canadian i wouldnt be free to conduct business as i pleased. it's as simple as that.
    06/24/1998 SD
    10/12/2000 KS
    06/13/2003 IA
    06/15/2003 ND
    06/16/2003 Mn
    06/21/2003 WI
    10/05/2004 MO
    10/08/2004 FL
    09/08/2005 MB
    09/09/2005 ON
    05/17/2006 IL
    05/19/2006 MI
    07/02/2006 CO
    08/05/2007 Lolla
    06/14/2008 B'roo

    Kill Fascists.... or at least make them realize what they are.
  • dmitrydmitry Posts: 136
    Commy wrote:
    In fact the opposite is true. In a way. The motivation in a socialist society is actually very high, in the labor force, in theory, as the workers tend to see the immediate results of their labor, in the local community. The motivation changes, from that of the individual to that of the community, as the labor and resources actually benefit the local communities as opposed to some far away minority.

    "No fire and no water" apparently led to motivation problems in the USSR.

    PBS's "Commanding Heights" is an interesting series:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/lo/story/ch_menu_02.html

    Skip to about 6:00 of the chapter 3 video for the "no fire and no water" comment.
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