sooo if you happened to live in a city...were all the evil doers hang out..you wouldn't have a gun??
i've owned a gun for 38 years. i got my first .22 when i was 12; just like every other kid. i've owned guns since then. when i lived in phoenix i stopped a home invasion with a gun; without firing a shot. when i lived in the bradshaws; i killed between 7 and 10 rattlesnakes that insisted on living near one of my doors. since my grandchildren visited a lot; i had no choice.
i won't live in a city. i did for 2 years while i looked for property and built a home; but i won't live near that kind of violence.
Remember not every American is a gun freak like onelongsong. Where I am from (Portland and Seattle mostly) there aren't near as many gun owners or at least as many people militant about it. Most everyone I knew don't even own guns except the occasional hunter.
Now living in Hong Kong, it is really bizarre to really never worry about your personal safety. It is an Eye opening to see from the outside how bad the US has become.
Remember not every American is a gun freak like onelongsong. Where I am from (Portland and Seattle mostly) there aren't near as many gun owners or at least as many people militant about it. Most everyone I knew don't even own guns except the occasional hunter.
Now living in Hong Kong, it is really bizarre to really never worry about your personal safety. It is an Eye opening to see from the outside how bad the US has become.
no one will ever convince me that taking away the guns of honest law abiding citizens will ever lower crime. and i'm not a gun freak. i'll go months without seeing a gun. i've got one when i need it but when you talk about taking my gun away; thems fighting words and i will speak out. anti-gun propaganda will be met with the truth.
Remember not every American is a gun freak like onelongsong. Where I am from (Portland and Seattle mostly) there aren't near as many gun owners or at least as many people militant about it. Most everyone I knew don't even own guns except the occasional hunter.
Now living in Hong Kong, it is really bizarre to really never worry about your personal safety. It is an Eye opening to see from the outside how bad the US has become.
If you think that's militant then I'm glad you haven't had the opportunity to play around some of the gun nuts here in Australia then.
I'd even venture to say that you probably know more gun owners than you think you do. But it seems it's de riguer for normal gun owners to hide it away now like a dirty little secret. Much less drama to admit your wife's got a vibrator these days so it seems.
But then I can see how hard it is not to attach social stigma to this kind of thing and assume how things are for others.
If you think that's militant then I'm glad you haven't had the opportunity to play around some of the gun nuts here in Australia then.
I'd even venture to say that you probably know more gun owners than you think you do. But it seems it's de riguer for normal gun owners to hide it away now like a dirty little secret. Much less drama to admit your wife's got a vibrator these days so it seems.
But then I can see how hard it is not to attach social stigma to this kind of thing and assume how things are for others.
you're right. i had a relative die a couple years back. he knew i hunted and collected guns; but when he died; i found out he had a beautiful gun. i was shocked to find out catherine cryer carried a gun. she came out a few years back. when people come in my house they see my collection. but i never tell anyone i'm an owner. you just don't talk about it.
you're right. i had a relative die a couple years back. he knew i hunted and collected guns; but when he died; i found out he had a beautiful gun. i was shocked to find out catherine cryer carried a gun. she came out a few years back. when people come in my house they see my collection. but i never tell anyone i'm an owner. you just don't talk about it.
Which I suspect isn't helping the situation. I've had the misfortune to spend time with some complete whack jobs that are also gun owners and obviously they did like to let me know at every available opportunity that they have guns and aren't afraid to use them. :rolleyes: I've even seen them using them when I've gone on camping trips with them and I'd never go again. The potential for disaster was just too great.
But I also know a lot of people that live in the bush or those that live in the city but spend a lot of time in the bush that have guns and do go shooting but they never talk about it. Never mention it because they know how ridiculous some people are when they're talking about guns and gun owners.
I'd put faith in my safety with some of the gun owners I know that are very stable, intelligent and fair minded people who also happen to own guns over and above some of the complete idiots I know that are totally against guns but drive like bloody maniacs or are just generally less intelligent and emotionally unstable.
I know where I'd be safer. And that's it isn't it?
It's not about the gun. It's about the person holding it.
Which I suspect isn't helping the situation. I've had the misfortune to spend time with some complete whack jobs that are also gun owners and obviously they did like to let me know at every available opportunity that they have guns and aren't afraid to use them. :rolleyes: I've even seen them using them when I've gone on camping trips with them and I'd never go again. The potential for disaster was just too great.
But I also know a lot of people that live in the bush or those that live in the city but spend a lot of time in the bush that have guns and do go shooting but they never talk about it. Never mention it because they know how ridiculous some people are when they're talking about guns and gun owners.
I'd put faith in my safety with some of the gun owners I know that are very stable, intelligent and fair minded people who also happen to own guns over and above some of the complete idiots I know that are totally against guns but drive like bloody maniacs or are just generally less intelligent and emotionally unstable.
I know where I'd be safer. And that's it isn't it?
It's not about the gun. It's about the person holding it.
and those are the people who will always have guns; no matter how illegal you make them.
and those are the people who will always have guns; no matter how illegal you make them.
As long as guns are manufactured and I can't see that stopping any time soon, as long as ALL guns that exist are still in existence, as long as ammunition is manufactured and available there will always be guns. In the history of mankind I've not known them to uninvent something. So I doubt guns are going anywhere. So now it's just about who has them and what they do with them.
i already posted my need for guns twice. but i'll post it again.
1) i have a .38 with a snake load
2) i have a .22 with birdshot to control buffalo getting out of hand
3) i have a .44 with a full load for an attacking buffalo; mountain lion; or other situation where i'm in mortal danger.
I've got to ask, do you have a time machine that allows you to live on a ranch in Montana in 1850? Just wondering! What a crazy life you lead dude. I seriously hope you write your memoirs.
I've got to ask, do you have a time machine that allows you to live on a ranch in Montana in 1850? Just wondering! What a crazy life you lead dude. I seriously hope you write your memoirs.
my ranches are in arizona and nevada. i lease a place in south dakota.
where i'm at it's more like 1880's. in 1850 the civil was was still going on. prostitution is legal as is gambling. here's our police blotter for the entire county. http://www.elynews.com/articles/2007/12/06/news/news09.txt
even though you can't make this shite up; i don't even believe things that have happened to me. i have the scars so you can't fight that. it's usually people that have known me most of my life that tell me i should write a book. it really makes me feel good when you ask. thanks.
no one will ever convince me that taking away the guns of honest law abiding citizens will ever lower crime. and i'm not a gun freak. i'll go months without seeing a gun. i've got one when i need it but when you talk about taking my gun away; thems fighting words and i will speak out. anti-gun propaganda will be met with the truth.
Months without seeing a gun? I thought you said you had two on your nightstand?
now we're getting to the point. "THOSE EFFECTED" is a key word to me. i lived in a big city and i was effected. i lived in a remote area and i was effected. i was held at gunpoint in my own yard so i was greatly effected.
my answer was to realize that criminals will always have guns no matter what the laws are. by deffinition; a criminal is someone who doesn't follow the laws. so my answer had to be leveling the field. i must be prepared to protect myself.
this is what i'm trying to get to: why do you take the position you take? i really want to understand. we have places in the us where you have to be careful what side of the street you walk. you have to watch what colours you wear because different gangs wear different colours.
i'm trying to understand why 2 different people effected by similar situations come to completely different conclusions. you've admitted that disarming honest law abiding citizens didn't remove guns from the hands of criminals. what do you think the uk's next move should be?
i ask this with respect because i'm trying to find our common ground.
I hear what you are saying, I really do. I guess the reason why I don't go about with a gun hidden in my sock is that the chances of something bad happening to me don't justify the risk of me and everyone else bringing more guns into the streets for "protection". That sounds ridiculous because violent crime here is rife but I personally have never had reason to shoot a man in the face in self-defence. I may do one day but I will not carry a gun around in case that day comes because it may never come and by carrying a gun, I probably put myself in more danger in the meantime.
I think that makes sense? does it?
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I hear what you are saying, I really do. I guess the reason why I don't go about with a gun hidden in my sock is that the chances of something bad happening to me don't justify the risk of me and everyone else bringing more guns into the streets for "protection". That sounds ridiculous because violent crime here is rife but I personally have never had reason to shoot a man in the face in self-defence. I may do one day but I will not carry a gun around in case that day comes because it may never come and by carrying a gun, I probably put myself in more danger in the meantime.
I think that makes sense? does it?
it makes perfect sense to me. i was in a position where i needed a gun. luckily my silver tounge talked him out of shooting me. but it's not the fear that gets you. it's the feeling of helplessness that's instilled in you. just how when someone's home is burgled; they don't feel safe. they feel violated. i've had both of those things happen to me.
i've owned guns all my life. my family members hold shooting records. in fact; my 60 some year old aunt holds the skeet shooting record. my uncle's gun collection is well over 100 handguns and several rifles. he's almost 80 and i'll get that collection when he dies. as ahnimus reminded us; an object at rest will stay at rest. i collect many things. my daughter collects dolfins and has thousands of dollars invested in dolfins of every shape and size. why? why spend your money on something so unnecesary?
well; i'm rabbiting on here. did that make sense to you?
I cannot comprehend such a gun-orientated existence. I used to shoot for sport when I was in the army cadets and went on shooting competitions in Army camps but this was with .22s and with army issue SA80s. Nothing you're either going to use to kill someone or ever have in your home. Eventually the attitude of it all bugged me. All I ever got from it was a sense of comradeship and sport. I knew guys that decided aged 15 that they were going to have a career in the army and I just had no desire to ever use any skills I learned for anything other than putting some holes in some targets. I haven't shot a gun for 2 years.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I cannot comprehend such a gun-orientated existence. I used to shoot for sport when I was in the army cadets and went on shooting competitions in Army camps but this was with .22s and with army issue SA80s. Nothing you're either going to use to kill someone or ever have in your home. Eventually the attitude of it all bugged me. All I ever got from it was a sense of comradeship and sport. I knew guys that decided aged 15 that they were going to have a career in the army and I just had no desire to ever use any skills I learned for anything other than putting some holes in some targets. I haven't shot a gun for 2 years.
in the 70's as a teenager; i decided i'd never carry a weapon of war. not even a knife. but when i started to become a victim of crime over and over; my ideas changed.
you also should realize that i need guns for my occupation. i'm the second biggest supplier of range fed buffalo meat in the us. i have animals that attract mountain lions and venomous snakes too. i've seen buffalo break through cement walls. nothing will hold them if they want out. 4 of my guns are tools. tools that can't be replaced by anything else.
i'm really glad you said you've shot guns before. it increases my respect for your opinion.
cheers
in the 70's as a teenager; i decided i'd never carry a weapon of war. not even a knife. but when i started to become a victim of crime over and over; my ideas changed.
you also should realize that i need guns for my occupation. i'm the second biggest supplier of range fed buffalo meat in the us. i have animals that attract mountain lions and venomous snakes too. i've seen buffalo break through cement walls. nothing will hold them if they want out. 4 of my guns are tools. tools that can't be replaced by anything else.
i'm really glad you said you've shot guns before. it increases my respect for your opinion.
cheers
I get the occupation thing I just find the level of gun presence that have described in your life as overwhelming. I have never owned a gun, even when I shot regularly, I always used range equipment. I guess it was just part of the distancing it from anything that wasn't sport-related. I had no need to OWN a gun, because I only used one on the range.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I get the occupation thing I just find the level of gun presence that have described in your life as overwhelming. I have never owned a gun, even when I shot regularly, I always used range equipment. I guess it was just part of the distancing it from anything that wasn't sport-related. I had no need to OWN a gun, because I only used one on the range.
and i respect that mate. the point i'm trying to get accross is that i'm not the only person that needs guns for their occupation. there are ranches all over the country. farmers need a gun much less that ranchers. open range ranchers need a gun much more often. now here's the important bit:
if you create laws to remove guns from the hands of east-coasters; you're also removing guns from the hands of those who need them and respect them.
in 38 years i've never had a gun accident. i've never shot anyone i didn't mean to. nobody has ever handled a gun i owned without my supervision.
on the other hand; i've saved either 5 or 7 lives. plus i've saved my own life twice. from those stats; it's good that i had a gun and KNEW HOW TO USE IT. that's the important bit. knowledge. we don't educate our children or adults for that matter; how to handle or respect guns. we let them play violent video games and let them watch violence on the tele and make them want guns. so they go out on the street and learn from doing.
when i was in school; all the blokes had their rifles and shotguns in their vehicles during hunting season. we'd darn our hunting clothes and shoot a few grouse before dark. we never had a school shooting. in fact; school shootings are something new. something that started after we stopped educating children about guns. when i was in school; most schools had archery and shooting class. in some schools it was part of PE and in others it was an option after school.
the bottom line is if you tell a kid he can't have something; he wants it even more. if you don't teach him the safe way to use it; disaster follows.
i don't know what thread the stats for the uk, canada; and austrailia were posted on; but murder went up after the government disarmed the citizens.
cheers
the bottom line is if you tell a kid he can't have something; he wants it even more. if you don't teach him the safe way to use it; disaster follows.
Do you feel the same way about drugs? And no, I don't mean we should teach our children how to use drugs, but tell them the truth about them instead of some of the bullshit people are teaching them now. And make drugs legal then, because outlawing them means they'll want it even more.
What about sex, teach children about sex, what different kinds of contraception are available and how you use them instead of abstinence only?
I don't get you, onelongsong, I remember threads (threads about school shootings I think) where I suggested that perhaps people should go through an extensive training and take an exam before they can have a gun, but you didn't agree with that. You said it was an infringement of your rights.
I tried searching for my suggestion and your reaction but couldn't find it now, I don't have time right now... but I'll search again later on.
Why would I have any faith in your motives or argument if the best you can do is degenerate into petty insults?
I can see way past black and white on this issue Cosmo but you don't seem to be able to see that I can. You seem to expect nothing more from me so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get around that.
You say that this is complicated and it's too simplistic to train and arm security guards to protect people but for the short term as an immediate workable plan WHILE you're busy changing attitudes and working at all the other complex issues of the argument WHY is it not viable?
Is it really worth sitting on your hands OR grinding away slowly at the wheel hoping for the ultimate disarmament of your countrymen while this keeps happening? Because I don't think you think it's acceptable for people to keep dying while you work it all out BUT that's what's going to happen wouldn't you say? So perhaps extreme circumstances call for extreme measures in the short term?
...
You never answered my question... Where do we hire and post all of these armed guards? Our shools have shootings... our universities have shootings... our malls have shootings... our McDonalds have shootings... our Churches have shootings. Where do we post these armed and trainned guards? How many guards is it going to take to cover all of these facilities, all of the time? Where are we supposed to get these guards? How much will this cost?
And the Second Amendment is here to stay. That is not on the table. As long as it is in our constitution, guns will be a part of our lives.
Your solution is black and white and simplistic at best. It requires armed security persons everywhere, all the time... or the repeal of the Second Amendment.
Neither one of those are realistic.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
i photograph every instance of abuse and i report them to the state. at least once a month. the state replies that they cannot get enough families willing to take special needs kids so the state does nothing. i do all i can including buying those kids decent presents.
...
You need to get that case out in the open. If you are unwuilling to do anything about it... other than provide presents that are eventually taken away... I will.
Give me all the evidence you have and I will submit them to OUR Childrens Welfare Services. They will either do something to fix it, notify the people who can or provide me the the contacts I will need to see to get those kids out of there.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
i've owned a gun for 38 years. i got my first .22 when i was 12; just like every other kid. i've owned guns since then. when i lived in phoenix i stopped a home invasion with a gun; without firing a shot. when i lived in the bradshaws; i killed between 7 and 10 rattlesnakes that insisted on living near one of my doors. since my grandchildren visited a lot; i had no choice.
i won't live in a city. i did for 2 years while i looked for property and built a home; but i won't live near that kind of violence.
i'm glad i got to read it before you deleted it.
Now living in Hong Kong, it is really bizarre to really never worry about your personal safety. It is an Eye opening to see from the outside how bad the US has become.
no one will ever convince me that taking away the guns of honest law abiding citizens will ever lower crime. and i'm not a gun freak. i'll go months without seeing a gun. i've got one when i need it but when you talk about taking my gun away; thems fighting words and i will speak out. anti-gun propaganda will be met with the truth.
If you think that's militant then I'm glad you haven't had the opportunity to play around some of the gun nuts here in Australia then.
I'd even venture to say that you probably know more gun owners than you think you do. But it seems it's de riguer for normal gun owners to hide it away now like a dirty little secret. Much less drama to admit your wife's got a vibrator these days so it seems.
But then I can see how hard it is not to attach social stigma to this kind of thing and assume how things are for others.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
you're right. i had a relative die a couple years back. he knew i hunted and collected guns; but when he died; i found out he had a beautiful gun. i was shocked to find out catherine cryer carried a gun. she came out a few years back. when people come in my house they see my collection. but i never tell anyone i'm an owner. you just don't talk about it.
Which I suspect isn't helping the situation. I've had the misfortune to spend time with some complete whack jobs that are also gun owners and obviously they did like to let me know at every available opportunity that they have guns and aren't afraid to use them. :rolleyes: I've even seen them using them when I've gone on camping trips with them and I'd never go again. The potential for disaster was just too great.
But I also know a lot of people that live in the bush or those that live in the city but spend a lot of time in the bush that have guns and do go shooting but they never talk about it. Never mention it because they know how ridiculous some people are when they're talking about guns and gun owners.
I'd put faith in my safety with some of the gun owners I know that are very stable, intelligent and fair minded people who also happen to own guns over and above some of the complete idiots I know that are totally against guns but drive like bloody maniacs or are just generally less intelligent and emotionally unstable.
I know where I'd be safer. And that's it isn't it?
It's not about the gun. It's about the person holding it.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
and those are the people who will always have guns; no matter how illegal you make them.
As long as guns are manufactured and I can't see that stopping any time soon, as long as ALL guns that exist are still in existence, as long as ammunition is manufactured and available there will always be guns. In the history of mankind I've not known them to uninvent something. So I doubt guns are going anywhere. So now it's just about who has them and what they do with them.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I've got to ask, do you have a time machine that allows you to live on a ranch in Montana in 1850? Just wondering! What a crazy life you lead dude. I seriously hope you write your memoirs.
my ranches are in arizona and nevada. i lease a place in south dakota.
where i'm at it's more like 1880's. in 1850 the civil was was still going on. prostitution is legal as is gambling. here's our police blotter for the entire county.
http://www.elynews.com/articles/2007/12/06/news/news09.txt
even though you can't make this shite up; i don't even believe things that have happened to me. i have the scars so you can't fight that. it's usually people that have known me most of my life that tell me i should write a book. it really makes me feel good when you ask. thanks.
Months without seeing a gun? I thought you said you had two on your nightstand?
naděje umírá poslední
I think that makes sense? does it?
it makes perfect sense to me. i was in a position where i needed a gun. luckily my silver tounge talked him out of shooting me. but it's not the fear that gets you. it's the feeling of helplessness that's instilled in you. just how when someone's home is burgled; they don't feel safe. they feel violated. i've had both of those things happen to me.
i've owned guns all my life. my family members hold shooting records. in fact; my 60 some year old aunt holds the skeet shooting record. my uncle's gun collection is well over 100 handguns and several rifles. he's almost 80 and i'll get that collection when he dies. as ahnimus reminded us; an object at rest will stay at rest. i collect many things. my daughter collects dolfins and has thousands of dollars invested in dolfins of every shape and size. why? why spend your money on something so unnecesary?
well; i'm rabbiting on here. did that make sense to you?
in the 70's as a teenager; i decided i'd never carry a weapon of war. not even a knife. but when i started to become a victim of crime over and over; my ideas changed.
you also should realize that i need guns for my occupation. i'm the second biggest supplier of range fed buffalo meat in the us. i have animals that attract mountain lions and venomous snakes too. i've seen buffalo break through cement walls. nothing will hold them if they want out. 4 of my guns are tools. tools that can't be replaced by anything else.
i'm really glad you said you've shot guns before. it increases my respect for your opinion.
cheers
and i respect that mate. the point i'm trying to get accross is that i'm not the only person that needs guns for their occupation. there are ranches all over the country. farmers need a gun much less that ranchers. open range ranchers need a gun much more often. now here's the important bit:
if you create laws to remove guns from the hands of east-coasters; you're also removing guns from the hands of those who need them and respect them.
in 38 years i've never had a gun accident. i've never shot anyone i didn't mean to. nobody has ever handled a gun i owned without my supervision.
on the other hand; i've saved either 5 or 7 lives. plus i've saved my own life twice. from those stats; it's good that i had a gun and KNEW HOW TO USE IT. that's the important bit. knowledge. we don't educate our children or adults for that matter; how to handle or respect guns. we let them play violent video games and let them watch violence on the tele and make them want guns. so they go out on the street and learn from doing.
when i was in school; all the blokes had their rifles and shotguns in their vehicles during hunting season. we'd darn our hunting clothes and shoot a few grouse before dark. we never had a school shooting. in fact; school shootings are something new. something that started after we stopped educating children about guns. when i was in school; most schools had archery and shooting class. in some schools it was part of PE and in others it was an option after school.
the bottom line is if you tell a kid he can't have something; he wants it even more. if you don't teach him the safe way to use it; disaster follows.
i don't know what thread the stats for the uk, canada; and austrailia were posted on; but murder went up after the government disarmed the citizens.
cheers
So you didn't need a gun, talking sufficed.
Do you feel the same way about drugs? And no, I don't mean we should teach our children how to use drugs, but tell them the truth about them instead of some of the bullshit people are teaching them now. And make drugs legal then, because outlawing them means they'll want it even more.
What about sex, teach children about sex, what different kinds of contraception are available and how you use them instead of abstinence only?
I don't get you, onelongsong, I remember threads (threads about school shootings I think) where I suggested that perhaps people should go through an extensive training and take an exam before they can have a gun, but you didn't agree with that. You said it was an infringement of your rights.
I tried searching for my suggestion and your reaction but couldn't find it now, I don't have time right now... but I'll search again later on.
naděje umírá poslední
You never answered my question... Where do we hire and post all of these armed guards? Our shools have shootings... our universities have shootings... our malls have shootings... our McDonalds have shootings... our Churches have shootings. Where do we post these armed and trainned guards? How many guards is it going to take to cover all of these facilities, all of the time? Where are we supposed to get these guards? How much will this cost?
And the Second Amendment is here to stay. That is not on the table. As long as it is in our constitution, guns will be a part of our lives.
Your solution is black and white and simplistic at best. It requires armed security persons everywhere, all the time... or the repeal of the Second Amendment.
Neither one of those are realistic.
Hail, Hail!!!
You need to get that case out in the open. If you are unwuilling to do anything about it... other than provide presents that are eventually taken away... I will.
Give me all the evidence you have and I will submit them to OUR Childrens Welfare Services. They will either do something to fix it, notify the people who can or provide me the the contacts I will need to see to get those kids out of there.
Hail, Hail!!!