So we'll sacrifice the 9 every ten years??? Is that what you're saying??
Instead of training mall security and setting benchmarks for performance. It's only 9 every 10 years so best we just leave it as it is now?
Coz the only other likely scenario I can see to stop it happening, if you're not going to train mall security guards, is to completely disarm the whole country, get everyone that needs psychiatric help the treatment they need. Destroy every gun ever made or exported into your country. Shut down the NRA, all the gun manufacturers, and complete re educate your population.
Hmmm....which one of those options sounds more feasible?
given the bottom line, which is profit margins, the latter option is more likely than mall owners taking $ out of their own pocket to give armed guards real training and better pay in accordance with high skill sets. welcome to america... where your life is only a variable in the cost-profit equation.
it's not going to happen, the extra cost and insurance premiums, not to mention settlements when one of their poorly paid guards guns down a kid, makes it more harmful than helpful. that kid could have opened fire anywhere... movie theater, zoo, museum. how do you stop that? you don't. americans are not, as a people, willing to give up the guns. as long as that is the case, things like this are going to happen.
Yeah, tell that to the people that died.
But let's keep sacrificing them because they're a statistical anomaly until we work out a real solution.
...
Oh... there is is... dragging the victims into the fray. What would you tell them?
...
Please, Don't try playing that bullshit hand on me.
You think some security guard would have saved them? Only if it happened to be a Brinks Armoured Car crew member or a cop. Even then... they could have been saved... how? Because they knew in advance when the guy was going to fire? What if they were outside or on the other side of the mall? Cops are not Superman... and Mall Security Guards are not cops.
Your solutions are as good as anyone else's... never gonna happen. Just a lot of empty ideas that can never be implemented in the real world.
Why?
(For the 5th or 6th time...) Because we will never drop this love of guns we possess.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
given the bottom line, which is profit margins, the latter option is more likely than mall owners taking $ out of their own pocket to give armed guards real training and better pay in accordance with high skill sets. welcome to america... where your life is only a variable in the cost-profit equation.
Well if that's the case, then clearly one does need to carry a gun and know how to use it in your country.
...
Oh... there is is... dragging the victims into the fray. What would you tell them?
...
Please, Don't try playing that bullshit hand on me.
You think some security guard would have saved them? Only if it happened to be a Brinks Armoured Car crew member or a cop. Even then... they could have been saved... how? Because they knew in advance when the guy was going to fire? What if they were outside or on the other side of the mall? Cops are not Superman... and Mall Security Guards are not cops.
Your solutions are as good as anyone else's... never gonna happen. Just a lot of empty ideas that can never be implemented in the real world.
Why?
(For the 5th or 6th time...) Because we will never drop this love of guns we possess.
So if you're not gonna drop your collective love of guns, then what's the problem with people being armed and trained to take care of themselves?
Seems to me the only other option.
You won't give up guns, you won't educate the public, you won't train security guards, you won't work to lower police response times, you won't ensure the mental health of your countrymen. It's not fiscally viable to worry about it from what I can gather so that leaves every man and woman for themselves doesn't it?
I think I'll take my chances with whatever keystone cop efforts the security guard could muster then thanks. Seems at least there's a chance then I'd still be alive. Over sitting and waiting for help that never comes while nutjob takes me out and a bored American public watches on.
i don't feel the need for one and i've never felt unsafe without one. but if you do need one to feel safe, have at it. our laws allow it.
I doubt very much I'd be any more comfortable with a gun in America than I would be here in Australia. ie: not very comfortable. I'm more than handy with a baseball bat when I've had to be. Although I find communication a handy tool to utilize in threat situations, not that it works all the time.
But I can certainly understand WHY someone would have one and know how to use it. I'm probably one of the people that will end up shot though.
I doubt very much I'd be any more comfortable with a gun in America than I would be here in Australia. ie: not very comfortable. I'm more than handy with a baseball bat when I've had to be. Although I find communication a handy tool to utilize in threat situations, not that it works all the time.
But I can certainly understand WHY someone would have one and know how to use it. I'm probably one of the people that will end up shot though.
so it would seem. cos i rather doubt you'd have had much luck convincing that kid not to shoot. so why should everyone else have to foot your bill? you're worried about mall shootings, pay your own way, buy a gun, and train until you're comfortable with it. don't go asking every mall in the country to pay out of their pocket to cover your irrational fear of being gunned down by a psycho in a shopping mall. cos they aren't gonna do it.
..
Someone's off their meds, huh.
Tell you what... maybe we should give everyone a gun that walks into a Mall... that way... in case a nutjob sneaks in... they can all protect themselves.
**Note** In case you are off your meds and cannot tell the difference... the above statement was made in jest... and not to be taken as a serious arguing point.
...
Train our security guards... in which mall? All of them? And how much training does it require? and are these minimum wage employees willing to put their lives on the line for strangers?
Not gonna happen. Americans need to simply accept the fact that at these thing wil occur as long as we have this love fests with guns.
You throw your hands up and expect that people should just accept the status quo and I'm off my meds?
You surely must have laws in place about workplaces and employment?
You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too. If a pissy little non entity country like Australia can manage some kind of regulation and training with regards to security guards how come the Great White Hope hasn't managed it?
Yeah, I don't think mall security would change a lot. Malls are huge, I mean these people want to kill as many people as possible and then die. Mall security, no matter how trained they are (even if they can shoot a book of matches from two hundred feet away), won't solve anything.
And even if security is close by, once someone starts shooting there is panic, do you really want yet another person shooting around?
No thought to accepting that it's a possible scenario for people shopping and educating the general public about what to do in if they find themselves in that scenario?
so it would seem. cos i rather doubt you'd have had much luck convincing that kid not to shoot. so why should everyone else have to foot your bill? you're worried about mall shootings, pay your own way, buy a gun, and train until you're comfortable with it. don't go asking every mall in the country to pay out of their pocket to cover your irrational fear of being gunned down by a psycho in a shopping mall. cos they aren't gonna do it.
yeah, there it is again. the worshipping of the almighty dollar over human beings. sad. very sad.
You throw your hands up and expect that people should just accept the status quo and I'm off my meds?
You surely must have laws in place about workplaces and employment?
You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too. If a pissy little non entity country like Australia can manage some kind of regulation and training with regards to security guards how come the Great White Hope hasn't managed it?
...
There... you said it, "You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too."
The same goes here... anyone who carries a firearm requires trainning. Our mall security Guards DO NOT CARRY FIREARMS. If they did, they would not be working for minimum wage.
...
do you think we know when and where these things will occur. We don't. We don't know where the next Eric Harris is... so, sholud we treat our schools as heavily guarded encampments? All of our students as potential mass killers? How do we protect all of our schools? Tell me... because I want to know.
Same goes for our malls. You don't even make the slightest effort to acknowledge that there are millions of Malls in America. Which one should we protect? All of Them? Along with all of our schools?
We have also had mass killings at our Universities at our McDonalds and Ruby's Diners... armed guards there, too? How many armed people do you think it will require to cover every mall... every school, university, McDonalds and every Ruby's? You are simply adding more guns in the mix and that won't fix shit.
...
All we know is there are more nuts out there. Who are they? Where are they? When are they going to strike? Answer those questions... that'll help.
You offer no solution. We have problems here that are uniquely American and we have to deal with them. It's not like we haven't confronted this problem for decades, now... do you think you idea is so unique that is hasn't been brought up before?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
hmmmm....reading this thread as it is to this point and it got me thinking....1) if everyone is armed, then the mental deficient that wants to go out in a blaze of glory knows he can't walk into the mall and start shooting because he will probably be gunned down before he takes out a few.....so now what?.....well fertilizer and diesel fuel are still readily available.....you can kill so much more and make a bigger "bang"......and 2) although i make it a habit to never enter a mall, if i need to, i do not want it to look like tel aviv or beruit.....
...
There... you said it, "You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too."
The same goes here... anyone who carries a firearm requires trainning. Our mall security Guards DO NOT CARRY FIREARMS. If they did, they would not be working for minimum wage.
...
do you think we know when and where these things will occur. We don't. We don't know where the next Eric Harris is... so, sholud we treat our schools as heavily guarded encampments? All of our students as potential mass killers? How do we protect all of our schools? Tell me... because I want to know.
Same goes for our malls. You don't even make the slightest effort to acknowledge that there are millions of Malls in America. Which one should we protect? All of Them? Along with all of our schools?
We have also had mass killings at our Universities at our McDonalds and Ruby's Diners... armed guards there, too? How many armed people do you think it will require to cover every mall... every school, university, McDonalds and every Ruby's? You are simply adding more guns in the mix and that won't fix shit.
...
All we know is there are more nuts out there. Who are they? Where are they? When are they going to strike? Answer those questions... that'll help.
You offer no solution. We have problems here that are uniquely American and we have to deal with them. It's not like we haven't confronted this problem for decades, now... do you think you idea is so unique that is hasn't been brought up before?
Let's stick to your plan then and just accept that people are gonna die and there's nothing we can do about it.
With that kind of attitude I don't know why you'd be bothered being against guns in the first place. I mean what do you care?
Let's stick to your plan then and just accept that people are gonna die and there's nothing we can do about it.
With that kind of attitude I don't know why you'd be bothered being against guns in the first place. I mean what do you care?
...
This is really a piece of work... really. And i mean that in the most sincere... I can't believe I Am even responding to her moronic statement... kind of way.
Do you think i do not understand the complexities of the American gun debate and i don't see nor understand the Second Amendment Rights arguements... and that these arguements about gun control have gone around and around and around for decades... and from that... that I, or anyone else who disagrees with you, are somehow okay the random killings? A real piece of work, there.
...
Okay... we'll just leave it at that because you are apparently unable to see anything other than black and white on this issue. Just go ahead and keep on believing what you believe and keep believing that you have a viable, working solution that Americans are either too dense to have come up with or too stupid to see. Oh, and that I think it's okay that psychos go on shooting rampages.
The idea that places well-paid, well-trained and armed security guards at every possible location where a random shooting in America MAY take place is so simple that only a simpleton could come up with.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
This is really a piece of work... really. And i mean that in the most sincere... I can't believe I Am even responding to her moronic statement... kind of way.
Do you think i do not understand the complexities of the American gun debate and i don't see nor understand the Second Amendment Rights arguements... and that these arguements about gun control have gone around and around and around for decades... and from that... that I, or anyone else who disagrees with you, are somehow okay the random killings? A real piece of work, there.
...
Okay... we'll just leave it at that because you are apparently unable to see anything other than black and white on this issue. Just go ahead and keep on believing what you believe and keep believing that you have a viable, working solution that Americans are either too dense to have come up with or too stupid to see. Oh, and that I think it's okay that psychos go on shooting rampages.
The idea that places well-paid, well-trained and armed security guards at every possible location where a random shooting in America MAY take place is so simple that only a simpleton could come up with.
Why would I have any faith in your motives or argument if the best you can do is degenerate into petty insults?
I can see way past black and white on this issue Cosmo but you don't seem to be able to see that I can. You seem to expect nothing more from me so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get around that.
You say that this is complicated and it's too simplistic to train and arm security guards to protect people but for the short term as an immediate workable plan WHILE you're busy changing attitudes and working at all the other complex issues of the argument WHY is it not viable?
Is it really worth sitting on your hands OR grinding away slowly at the wheel hoping for the ultimate disarmament of your countrymen while this keeps happening? Because I don't think you think it's acceptable for people to keep dying while you work it all out BUT that's what's going to happen wouldn't you say? So perhaps extreme circumstances call for extreme measures in the short term?
exactly; but until his ignorance of our situation changes; there's no middle ground to be found. he wasn't bashing me. if he was i would have considered the source. he was bashing every american. i was the one that stood up to him. i posted my use of guns in a post above. i'm sure you would find it reasonable. i also posted to jeremy my true thoughts on deadly force. i know you'd agree with those. so i'm not being unreasonable. bigots will be bigots so you've got to let it go.
I may just be reading this wrong, and I have had a drink or seven but i hope that you aren't referring to me as a bigot here...
I'd like to think we got a bit past that.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Question, does this mall have security guards, if so, are they armed guards? Most high end stores employee security guards. Malls usually put on extra guards around the holidays.
Sorry to hear about this event. Take care.
I'm sure there's a few throughout the whole mall. Obviously not enough I've taken notice of... cuz really, i'm not even sure. I'd venture to guess there are probably a couple armed... for the whole mall.
I may just be reading this wrong, and I have had a drink or seven but i hope that you aren't referring to me as a bigot here...
I'd like to think we got a bit past that.
jeremy; would i invite you into my home and call you a bigot? you've been here trying to understand and trying to find answers. bigotry is closing your mind and demanding that you are right; then calling those who don't follow you names. you haven't done that so i don't know how you could think i was referring to you. i'm talking about closed mindedness in general. i wasn't referring to just one person. things are much different here than in the uk. you showed a genuine interest to learn those differences; and that's why i opened my home to you.
jeremy; would i invite you into my home and call you a bigot? you've been here trying to understand and trying to find answers. bigotry is closing your mind and demanding that you are right; then calling those who don't follow you names. you haven't done that so i don't know how you could think i was referring to you. i'm talking about closed mindedness in general. i wasn't referring to just one person. things are much different here than in the uk. you showed a genuine interest to learn those differences; and that's why i opened my home to you.
My bad see PM.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
the uk is still mother england to me. things are much different there and things or ideals that work there; won't work here and i want to find out why. you didn't say that you're right and i'm wrong; you helped me understand; and i respect that more than anything else.
I'm probably arguing against my own opinion here but stats don't mean shit to a person who is directly affected. Whether or not the shootings round the corner from my university halls are rare and not close to the US stats-wise (because while it is a predominantly black, predominantly poor area, the university means that in term time, half of the people there are middle class white people like myself), if I walk back from the pub at 1am and get shot by some crack dealer because I went down the wrong street and he fancied his chances with my wallet, my parents are sure going to care about it. Whether or not it is a rarity doesn't really matter. We're talking life here.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I'm probably arguing against my own opinion here but stats don't mean shit to a person who is directly affected. Whether or not the shootings round the corner from my university halls are rare and not close to the US stats-wise (because while it is a predominantly black, predominantly poor area, the university means that in term time, half of the people there are middle class white people like myself), if I walk back from the pub at 1am and get shot by some crack dealer because I went down the wrong street and he fancied his chances with my wallet, my parents are sure going to care about it. Whether or not it is a rarity doesn't really matter. We're talking life here.
now we're getting to the point. "THOSE EFFECTED" is a key word to me. i lived in a big city and i was effected. i lived in a remote area and i was effected. i was held at gunpoint in my own yard so i was greatly effected.
my answer was to realize that criminals will always have guns no matter what the laws are. by deffinition; a criminal is someone who doesn't follow the laws. so my answer had to be leveling the field. i must be prepared to protect myself.
this is what i'm trying to get to: why do you take the position you take? i really want to understand. we have places in the us where you have to be careful what side of the street you walk. you have to watch what colours you wear because different gangs wear different colours.
i'm trying to understand why 2 different people effected by similar situations come to completely different conclusions. you've admitted that disarming honest law abiding citizens didn't remove guns from the hands of criminals. what do you think the uk's next move should be?
i ask this with respect because i'm trying to find our common ground.
now we're getting to the point. "THOSE EFFECTED" is a key word to me. i lived in a big city and i was effected. i lived in a remote area and i was effected. i was held at gunpoint in my own yard so i was greatly effected.
my answer was to realize that criminals will always have guns no matter what the laws are. by deffinition; a criminal is someone who doesn't follow the laws. so my answer had to be leveling the field. i must be prepared to protect myself.
this is what i'm trying to get to: why do you take the position you take? i really want to understand. we have places in the us where you have to be careful what side of the street you walk. you have to watch what colours you wear because different gangs wear different colours.
i'm trying to understand why 2 different people effected by similar situations come to completely different conclusions. you've admitted that disarming honest law abiding citizens didn't remove guns from the hands of criminals. what do you think the uk's next move should be?
i ask this with respect because i'm trying to find our common ground.
i guess another way to ask is that i would risk my life to save those innocent people. why wouldn't others?
if we should have universal healthcare because caring for others is the right thing to do; does it stop at throwing money at the problem and stop there?
i take it you didn't look at the gunownership chart.
look in big cities that have strict gunlaws and look at their gun crime rates.
it's your parenting skills that breed violence. look at the video games you let them play; look at the movies you let them watch. lack of family contact breeds violence. i had my own business cutting lawns at age 8. my dad helped out with the books and profit margins but i did the actual work; and he bought the tractor. if i wasn't in school or working; i was studying. i gave up a lot but retired at age 40; as planned. now i enjoy life while i'm young enough to enjoy the things i like to do. i never had time for violence. i never had time to get into any trouble.
so; if a vast majority of the folks being killed.... are gun owners or their families; DOES THAT MEAN WE DON'T HAVE CRIMINALS USING GUNS? this is a news flash to me.
Your segmenting gun owner and criminals...I'm not...I'm saying anyone..that owns a gun has a higher likely hood of dying by a gun...live by the sword..die by the sword..thats all.
Tell me this...since your so well balanced and live in the country..why are you soo scared of your fellow human? I live in pretty nasty city.....in not so good part of town..yet I've never felt the need to own a gun?
Your segmenting gun owner and criminals...I'm not...I'm saying anyone..that owns a gun has a higher likely hood of dying by a gun...live by the sword..die by the sword..thats all.
Tell me this...since your so well balanced and live in the country..why are you soo scared of your fellow human? I live in pretty nasty city.....in not so good part of town..yet I've never felt the need to own a gun?
i already posted my need for guns twice. but i'll post it again.
1) i have a .38 with a snake load
2) i have a .22 with birdshot to control buffalo getting out of hand
3) i have a .44 with a full load for an attacking buffalo; mountain lion; or other situation where i'm in mortal danger.
I bet the families of the people that died in Nebraska wish mall security had had guns. Hell I bet the people that were shot dead wished mall security had had guns and used them. I sure as hell know that if I was there and some nutcase was taking pot shots at me while I shopped that I'd want someone, ANYONE that could shoot straight and had a clear shot of the nut job to shoot him.
If you've seen the level of competence of the average security guard in the US you'd change your mind. If we gave all security guards in the US guns more folks would be accidentally shot by those guns that what would be killed by would be perps.
i already posted my need for guns twice. but i'll post it again.
1) i have a .38 with a snake load
2) i have a .22 with birdshot to control buffalo getting out of hand
3) i have a .44 with a full load for an attacking buffalo; mountain lion; or other situation where i'm in mortal danger.
sooo if you happened to live in a city...were all the evil doers hang out..you wouldn't have a gun??
Comments
given the bottom line, which is profit margins, the latter option is more likely than mall owners taking $ out of their own pocket to give armed guards real training and better pay in accordance with high skill sets. welcome to america... where your life is only a variable in the cost-profit equation.
it's not going to happen, the extra cost and insurance premiums, not to mention settlements when one of their poorly paid guards guns down a kid, makes it more harmful than helpful. that kid could have opened fire anywhere... movie theater, zoo, museum. how do you stop that? you don't. americans are not, as a people, willing to give up the guns. as long as that is the case, things like this are going to happen.
Oh... there is is... dragging the victims into the fray. What would you tell them?
...
Please, Don't try playing that bullshit hand on me.
You think some security guard would have saved them? Only if it happened to be a Brinks Armoured Car crew member or a cop. Even then... they could have been saved... how? Because they knew in advance when the guy was going to fire? What if they were outside or on the other side of the mall? Cops are not Superman... and Mall Security Guards are not cops.
Your solutions are as good as anyone else's... never gonna happen. Just a lot of empty ideas that can never be implemented in the real world.
Why?
(For the 5th or 6th time...) Because we will never drop this love of guns we possess.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well if that's the case, then clearly one does need to carry a gun and know how to use it in your country.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BE9i-NxAmNE
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i don't feel the need for one and i've never felt unsafe without one. but if you do need one to feel safe, have at it. our laws allow it.
So if you're not gonna drop your collective love of guns, then what's the problem with people being armed and trained to take care of themselves?
Seems to me the only other option.
You won't give up guns, you won't educate the public, you won't train security guards, you won't work to lower police response times, you won't ensure the mental health of your countrymen. It's not fiscally viable to worry about it from what I can gather so that leaves every man and woman for themselves doesn't it?
I think I'll take my chances with whatever keystone cop efforts the security guard could muster then thanks. Seems at least there's a chance then I'd still be alive. Over sitting and waiting for help that never comes while nutjob takes me out and a bored American public watches on.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I doubt very much I'd be any more comfortable with a gun in America than I would be here in Australia. ie: not very comfortable. I'm more than handy with a baseball bat when I've had to be. Although I find communication a handy tool to utilize in threat situations, not that it works all the time.
But I can certainly understand WHY someone would have one and know how to use it. I'm probably one of the people that will end up shot though.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
so it would seem. cos i rather doubt you'd have had much luck convincing that kid not to shoot. so why should everyone else have to foot your bill? you're worried about mall shootings, pay your own way, buy a gun, and train until you're comfortable with it. don't go asking every mall in the country to pay out of their pocket to cover your irrational fear of being gunned down by a psycho in a shopping mall. cos they aren't gonna do it.
You throw your hands up and expect that people should just accept the status quo and I'm off my meds?
You surely must have laws in place about workplaces and employment?
You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too. If a pissy little non entity country like Australia can manage some kind of regulation and training with regards to security guards how come the Great White Hope hasn't managed it?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
No thought to accepting that it's a possible scenario for people shopping and educating the general public about what to do in if they find themselves in that scenario?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
yeah, there it is again. the worshipping of the almighty dollar over human beings. sad. very sad.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
like i said, welcome to america. profit is the only value we hold truly sacred.
There... you said it, "You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too."
The same goes here... anyone who carries a firearm requires trainning. Our mall security Guards DO NOT CARRY FIREARMS. If they did, they would not be working for minimum wage.
...
do you think we know when and where these things will occur. We don't. We don't know where the next Eric Harris is... so, sholud we treat our schools as heavily guarded encampments? All of our students as potential mass killers? How do we protect all of our schools? Tell me... because I want to know.
Same goes for our malls. You don't even make the slightest effort to acknowledge that there are millions of Malls in America. Which one should we protect? All of Them? Along with all of our schools?
We have also had mass killings at our Universities at our McDonalds and Ruby's Diners... armed guards there, too? How many armed people do you think it will require to cover every mall... every school, university, McDonalds and every Ruby's? You are simply adding more guns in the mix and that won't fix shit.
...
All we know is there are more nuts out there. Who are they? Where are they? When are they going to strike? Answer those questions... that'll help.
You offer no solution. We have problems here that are uniquely American and we have to deal with them. It's not like we haven't confronted this problem for decades, now... do you think you idea is so unique that is hasn't been brought up before?
Hail, Hail!!!
Let's stick to your plan then and just accept that people are gonna die and there's nothing we can do about it.
With that kind of attitude I don't know why you'd be bothered being against guns in the first place. I mean what do you care?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
This is really a piece of work... really. And i mean that in the most sincere... I can't believe I Am even responding to her moronic statement... kind of way.
Do you think i do not understand the complexities of the American gun debate and i don't see nor understand the Second Amendment Rights arguements... and that these arguements about gun control have gone around and around and around for decades... and from that... that I, or anyone else who disagrees with you, are somehow okay the random killings? A real piece of work, there.
...
Okay... we'll just leave it at that because you are apparently unable to see anything other than black and white on this issue. Just go ahead and keep on believing what you believe and keep believing that you have a viable, working solution that Americans are either too dense to have come up with or too stupid to see. Oh, and that I think it's okay that psychos go on shooting rampages.
The idea that places well-paid, well-trained and armed security guards at every possible location where a random shooting in America MAY take place is so simple that only a simpleton could come up with.
Hail, Hail!!!
Why would I have any faith in your motives or argument if the best you can do is degenerate into petty insults?
I can see way past black and white on this issue Cosmo but you don't seem to be able to see that I can. You seem to expect nothing more from me so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get around that.
You say that this is complicated and it's too simplistic to train and arm security guards to protect people but for the short term as an immediate workable plan WHILE you're busy changing attitudes and working at all the other complex issues of the argument WHY is it not viable?
Is it really worth sitting on your hands OR grinding away slowly at the wheel hoping for the ultimate disarmament of your countrymen while this keeps happening? Because I don't think you think it's acceptable for people to keep dying while you work it all out BUT that's what's going to happen wouldn't you say? So perhaps extreme circumstances call for extreme measures in the short term?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'd like to think we got a bit past that.
You should see how we do that with automobiles.
Well here we've managed a psuedo solution regarding cars by increasing our revenue with endless fines in the name of road safety.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm sure there's a few throughout the whole mall. Obviously not enough I've taken notice of... cuz really, i'm not even sure. I'd venture to guess there are probably a couple armed... for the whole mall.
jeremy; would i invite you into my home and call you a bigot? you've been here trying to understand and trying to find answers. bigotry is closing your mind and demanding that you are right; then calling those who don't follow you names. you haven't done that so i don't know how you could think i was referring to you. i'm talking about closed mindedness in general. i wasn't referring to just one person. things are much different here than in the uk. you showed a genuine interest to learn those differences; and that's why i opened my home to you.
the uk is still mother england to me. things are much different there and things or ideals that work there; won't work here and i want to find out why. you didn't say that you're right and i'm wrong; you helped me understand; and i respect that more than anything else.
now we're getting to the point. "THOSE EFFECTED" is a key word to me. i lived in a big city and i was effected. i lived in a remote area and i was effected. i was held at gunpoint in my own yard so i was greatly effected.
my answer was to realize that criminals will always have guns no matter what the laws are. by deffinition; a criminal is someone who doesn't follow the laws. so my answer had to be leveling the field. i must be prepared to protect myself.
this is what i'm trying to get to: why do you take the position you take? i really want to understand. we have places in the us where you have to be careful what side of the street you walk. you have to watch what colours you wear because different gangs wear different colours.
i'm trying to understand why 2 different people effected by similar situations come to completely different conclusions. you've admitted that disarming honest law abiding citizens didn't remove guns from the hands of criminals. what do you think the uk's next move should be?
i ask this with respect because i'm trying to find our common ground.
i guess another way to ask is that i would risk my life to save those innocent people. why wouldn't others?
if we should have universal healthcare because caring for others is the right thing to do; does it stop at throwing money at the problem and stop there?
Your segmenting gun owner and criminals...I'm not...I'm saying anyone..that owns a gun has a higher likely hood of dying by a gun...live by the sword..die by the sword..thats all.
Tell me this...since your so well balanced and live in the country..why are you soo scared of your fellow human? I live in pretty nasty city.....in not so good part of town..yet I've never felt the need to own a gun?
i already posted my need for guns twice. but i'll post it again.
1) i have a .38 with a snake load
2) i have a .22 with birdshot to control buffalo getting out of hand
3) i have a .44 with a full load for an attacking buffalo; mountain lion; or other situation where i'm in mortal danger.