but obviously killed them off before creating Humans.
Obviously... that's what god does when he doesn't need something anymore. Just dispose of them.... When is it our turn to be terminated by this all loving god?
I haven't 'even' read the bible. However, like a cake, I have on occasion nibbled at it. Although I am of the opinion that I don't need to eat a whole cake in order to know whether it's made out of shit.
In the first few Chaps. of Genesis it describes the 7 creative "days" which actually spanned thousands and thousands of years, it describes Great wild beasts roaming the Earth...Bible scholars believe that these were the Dinosaurs and that he created them for a purpose (oil, etc.) but obviously killed them off before creating Humans.
I think bible sholar will find answers or explanations for everything in the bible because that's exactly what they're looking for and the funny thing about it is, it doesn't have to make sense, people will just believe because their believe is so strong.
I don't take it as proof of his non-existence, although I think it puts a dent in claims of infallibility. I don't think it's possible to prove that something doesn't exist. I don't believe in the bible for numerous other reasons.
Regret is a FEELING, an emotion, not a change of mind. A change of mind is to percieve something in a new way.
Regret is a FEELING, an emotion, not a change of mind. A change of mind is to percieve something in a new way.
Thank-you eden, for your posts in this thread.
Thats a good point I think, what you said about regret being an emotion.
He has never changed his original purpose for human beings, yet, being an emotional God (thats where WE got our emotions from, as we were created in "his" image Genesis brings out) He has always dealt with humans with love and even considerd their feelings -I always remember when Lot asked him to spare Sodom and Gommorah if he could only find 100 good hearted people and he let himself be "reasoned with" by Lot all the way down to 10 good people.
On a sidenote - One of the things that doesnt satisfy me about the evolution theory is that it doesnt explain where we got these emotions from. Eddie said it best - "The Oceans made us, but who came up with love?".
I think bible sholar will find answers or explanations for everything in the bible because that's exactly what they're looking for and the funny thing about it is, it doesn't have to make sense, people will just believe because their believe is so strong.
To a certain degree that is true..its just human nature.
But if you research some of the most well known bible scholars youd be really surprised at how "unbiased" they were in their original approach to finding scientific proof to back up what the Bible says.
I mean, these men are smart enough to know that they cant just toss a theory out there without solid data and research to back it up.
I don't take it as proof of his non-existence, although I think it puts a dent in claims of infallibility. I don't think it's possible to prove that something doesn't exist. I don't believe in the bible for numerous other reasons.
I have to completely agree with you on this, hippiemom.
I was raised with ideas of god. I went to church and sunday school. I was confirmed when I was a teen. Through the whole process, I was mortified by the hypocrisy, judgment, finger pointing and blame. And the lack of sense. After I was confirmed, I was sent a box of envelopes by our church--the ones for putting my financial contribution back into the church, now that I was an "adult". I have not gone back to church for my own purposes since.
I was not the type of person who would follow ideas that did not have sense for me. So I went my own path. Eventually, a very real Source within me started showing me "Universal Truths". When I see such Truth, I am shown it multidimensionally and perfectly. I understand it from all angles. Truth is truth. However, the minute I open up my mouth and try to explain such truth, it is one step removed from the Truth. Then when another person hears my truth, it is one step removed from my truth which is removed from the Truth.
This is what happens with the bible information in my view. At the same time, I also see that for others, they CAN understand the meanings of the bible by reading between the lines of how men have interpreted and unintentionally distorted the Truth--this is due to having a predisposition towards this method of learning about ethics and morality. I can do so if I try to relate. When one looks at the bible in the Spirit of learning through God, they will discern the truths in an intuitive KNOWing sense. And yet, to work that intuition into logical understanding is a step removed; and further removed is acting it out in deed. Hence, we have great truth, and we have great falls from Grace.
At the same time, I completely understand, by my own experience, why one is drawn to learning in a more directly, practical informational sense. And by my experiences with the Light and my understanding of Truth, the Light embraces all experience, 100%. There is no right or wrong way. When we are judged in the presence of the Light, the judgment is our own--when it is revealed to us, the full truths, WE are gladly willing to let drop away what does not work for us.
If one aspires to become an actualized human--to achieve the full blueprint of human potential, there are a few models, including the Buddhist model of enlightenment. Another is Christ consciousness. Some aspire to cosmic consciousness. The blueprint of awakened human potential is the same thing, whatever map is used.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
On a sidenote - One of the things that doesnt satisfy me about the evolution theory is that it doesnt explain where we got these emotions from. Eddie said it best - "The Oceans made us, but who came up with love?".
The evolution theory isn't supposed to explain emotions, leave that up to neurobiology.
The evolution theory isn't supposed to explain emotions, leave that up to neurobiology.
Neurobiology can explain the objective manifestation of emotions(edit: ie: in terms of chemicals, actions/reactions, which does not address the experience of such emotions). That is only one side of the coin. Psychology explains the other highly relevant side: subjective experience of emotions. The word "psychology" itself refers to the study of the psyche/soul. And the base laws of the objective study of the subjective psychological experience uncover natural universal laws quite similar and/or identical to the base laws of spirituality and religion, quite wonderfully. When one goes far into psychology, it is difficult to discern it from heightened levels of spirituality.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Obviously... that's what god does when he doesn't need something anymore. Just dispose of them.... When is it our turn to be terminated by this all loving god?
See, thats a perfect example of my argument here^^. You spout off like that with no logical evidence to back up what you just said.
Throughout the ENTIRE bible, God gave people so many "chances" before he brought some sort of destruction that it almost makes him seem like a masochist.
1. He gave the people of Noahs day a 40 YEAR WARNING before bringing the flood.
2. The Israelites were disloyal to him numerous times (doing things like building a Golden statue to worship when Moses didnt come down from The Mountain soon enough for them) till finally he was "hurt at his heart) and allowed them to be taken captive by the Babylonians. But STILL he of couse never broke the covenant he had made with Abraham.
3. When he allowed the destruction of Jeruselum in 70 C.E. he first gave a 4 year warning to all the people that the Roman armies were coming.
The evolution theory isn't supposed to explain emotions, leave that up to neurobiology.
Collin, Im of course "bottomlining" this. What you said here has nothing to do with my question. Its like, I want to know how we got to point B and you are pointing at point Z and saying "see thats how".
Evolution also explains HOW we got here but not WHY we are here, very unsatisfying to me.
To a certain degree that is true..its just human nature.
But if you research some of the most well known bible scholars youd be really surprised at how "unbiased" they were in their original approach to finding scientific proof to back up what the Bible says.
I mean, these men are smart enough to know that they cant just toss a theory out there without solid data and research to back it up.
I googled a little, couldn't really find anything convincing or remotely unbiased, do you know any names of well known Bible scholars.
Even if they find scientific proof, it doesn't back up what the bible says at all.
I googled a little, couldn't really find anything convincing or remotely unbiased, do you know any names of well known Bible scholars.
Even if they find scientific proof, it doesn't back up what the bible says at all.
If I gave you a few names would you even have an open mind to what they had to say?
Because that last comment up their pretty much wipes out anything ANYONE could ever tell you to back up their beliefs. I mean what the hell backs up anything more than scientific proof? UGH! (reaches through her monitor to choke Collin )
Obviously... that's what god does when he doesn't need something anymore. Just dispose of them.... When is it our turn to be terminated by this all loving god?
I hear your point, redrock.
It makes sense for me to see evolution in the sense that rather than beings being killed of by a seemingly self-contradictory "all-loving" god, there are rational, non-judgmental reasons for it happening instead. Even if we're all looking at the same process.
I see God and evolution as being one and the same. What I must tune out in order to hear "Truth" for me, is the judgment/blame aspects of any system of thought. The judgment/blame aspects are our personal unconscious biased parts. When humans interpret Universal Power in terms of it being judgmental and blaming, I see that it is because we ourselves are that way and it's what we know. Natural cause and effect is somewhat more neutral and realistic than judgment and blame, for me.
I see the validity of what you are saying, too, eden. Your heart is able to understand through the judgment and blame, as well, with the discernment (some might say "bias") of Love and Understanding in your interpretation. I don't mind being biased towards Love, knowing it is the essence of everything. That's my favourite approach to take. It is the most Truthful and the way to get to the heart of the matter quickly. Truth is in harmony with Love. One does not get lost in tangents of irrelevency.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Collin, Im of course "bottomlining" this. What you said here has nothing to do with my question. Its like, I want to know how we got to point B and you are pointing at point Z and saying "see thats how".
Evolution also explains HOW we got here but not WHY we are here, very unsatisfying to me.
"where we got these emotions from" and why we are here are two different questions.
Neurobiology can explain the objective manifestation of emotions, as angelica put it. That's where we got them from.
Why we are here, I have no idea, I personally think we don't have a purpose at all. But I think evolution theory and faith can coexist, evolution to explain how we got here and faith and spirituality to explain the "why". I, however, don't believe in the "why."
If I gave you a few names would you even have an open mind to what they had to say?
I certainly would, a critical mind, yes, a closed mind, no.
Because that last comment up their pretty much wipes out anything ANYONE could ever tell you to back up their beliefs. I mean what the hell backs up anything more than scientific proof? UGH! (reaches through her monitor to choke Collin )
Proving that all the places mentioned in the bible are real, the kings and people really existed, that even Jesus was real, doesn't prove what the bible says i.e. God exists.
Most works of fiction, use real time settings, real buildings, real events... doesn't mean it's true.
It makes sense for me to see evolution in the sense that rather than beings being killed of by a seemingly self-contradictory "all-loving" god, there are rational, non-judgmental reasons for it happening instead. Even if we're all looking at the same process.
I see God and evolution as being one and the same. What I must tune out in order to hear "Truth" for me, is the judgment/blame aspects of any system of thought. The judgment/blame aspects are our personal unconscious biased parts. When humans interpret Universal Power in terms of it being judgmental and blaming, I see that it is because we ourselves are that way and it's what we know. Natural cause and effect is somewhat more neutral and realistic than judgment and blame, for me.
I see the validity of what you are saying, too, eden. Your heart is able to understand through the judgment and blame, as well, with the discernment (some might say "bias") of Love and Understanding in your interpretation. I don't mind being biased towards Love, knowing it is the essence of everything. That's my favourite approach to take. It is the most Truthful and the way to get to the heart of the matter quickly. Truth is in harmony with Love. One does not get lost in tangents of irrelevency.
Angelica,
I totally admire and look for your posts. I find you to be very enlightened.
BUT- its OK to me that there are universal truths, that some things are black and white in this World, your theory FEELS really good but it doesnt answer concrete questions. Its too loosey-goosey for me.
As an example - I could decide that I was going to defy the law of gravity and jump off a cliff because it would FEEL really good to fly and dammitt, Im not going to let anyone judge me, Im going to do as I see fit with no accountability to a higher law than myself. Ok, obviously I could choose to do that, but the result would be my death because as we know the law of Gravity is a higher law than my own personal feelings. Its the same to me with the principles and laws of the Bible.
Most works of fiction, use real time settings, real buildings, real events... doesn't mean it's true.
Are "most" divided into 66 books, written by over 40 men and spanned THOUSANDS of years in its completion from beginning to end??? Please, explain that away to me Collin. As you know - even non-believes know this to be fact and not conjecture or speculations. We have scientifically aged scrolls to prove the time frame of the writing of the Bible.
Are "most" divided into 66 books, written by over 40 men and spanned THOUSANDS of years in its completion from beginning to end??? Please, explain that away to me Collin. As you know - even non-believes know this to be fact and not conjecture or speculations. We have scientifically aged scrolls to prove the time frame of the writing of the Bible.
All those writers share the same faith, it's as simple as that.
Angelica,
I totally admire and look for your posts. I find you to be very enlightened.
Thank-you.
BUT- its OK to me that there are universal truths, that some things are black and white in this World, your theory FEELS really good but it doesnt answer concrete questions. Its too loosey-goosey for me.
I completely agree that some things are black and white--particularly the Universal Laws, or God's laws.
As an example - I could decide that I was going to defy the law of gravity and jump off a cliff because it would FEEL really good to fly and dammitt, Im not going to let anyone judge me, Im going to do as I see fit with no accountability to a higher law than myself. Ok, obviously I could choose to do that, but the result would be my death because as we know the law of Gravity is a higher law than my own personal feelings. Its the same to me with the principles and laws of the Bible.
I agree 100 %. You may not have noticed, but in many of my posts in the past few days, I talk about that we have no choice but to follow Universal Law because we are immersed in it. It sounds like you have questions remaining regarding my approach. It's understandable that it takes time before we all understand each other, if complete understanding is at all possible.
Just yesterday, I said: "Either way we can't dodge the fact that we work around the natural rule--we can't rise above it"
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Hello? The first half of the bible was written by Jews, the second half Christians.
You are just spouting off the top of your head and arent even making sense anymore.
Last time I checked, Jews believed in God and so did Christians.
I completely agree that some things are black and white--particularly the Universal Laws, or God's laws.
I agree 100 %. You may not have noticed, but in many of my posts in the past few days, I talk about that we have no choice but to follow Universal Law because we are immersed in it. It sounds like you have questions remaining regarding my approach. It's understandable that it takes time before we all understand each other, if complete understanding is at all possible.
Just yesterday, I said: "Either way we can't dodge the fact that we work around the natural rule--we can't rise above it"
Are you agnostic (a bit unsure either way)? Just wondering where you stand because your posts are very intelligent but dont really take a stand on either side. But is nice how the undercurrent of your posts is love and understanding of everyone.
Are you agnostic (a bit unsure either way)? Just wondering where you stand because your posts are very intelligent but dont really take a stand on either side. But is nice how the undercurrent of your posts is love and understanding of everyone.
For the past 12 years, I have had personal spiritual experiences with God, that have shown me truths and understandings, and that have directed me towards healing numerous problems in my life. I have been on my knees crying in sheer humility at the overwhelming vast Love of God, during some of these experiences. There is a God. If anyone does not know that, it is because they do not yet know. There is no non-anything including non-god or non-faith. There is only pure everything. The opposite to everything just helps us learn the truth in it's amazing beauty. It IS All. Some people do see this power in different ways. Others see it all the time and just don't recognize it. It's easy to overlook how miraculous everything is when we just ARE miraculous.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If were talking Gods, well Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God, I dont see how that is relevant to the discussion.
The point is the bible was written by people who all have faith that god exists, obviously.
400 years BC there were atheists and there are atheists now, does that mean god doesn't exist, no. It doesn't mean anything, it means in the year 400 BC there were people who didn't believe god existed or people who had a lack of faith in god and you had people who believed in god...
Comments
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Obviously... that's what god does when he doesn't need something anymore. Just dispose of them.... When is it our turn to be terminated by this all loving god?
I think bible sholar will find answers or explanations for everything in the bible because that's exactly what they're looking for and the funny thing about it is, it doesn't have to make sense, people will just believe because their believe is so strong.
naděje umírá poslední
Regret is a FEELING, an emotion, not a change of mind. A change of mind is to percieve something in a new way.
Thank-you eden, for your posts in this thread.
Thats a good point I think, what you said about regret being an emotion.
He has never changed his original purpose for human beings, yet, being an emotional God (thats where WE got our emotions from, as we were created in "his" image Genesis brings out) He has always dealt with humans with love and even considerd their feelings -I always remember when Lot asked him to spare Sodom and Gommorah if he could only find 100 good hearted people and he let himself be "reasoned with" by Lot all the way down to 10 good people.
On a sidenote - One of the things that doesnt satisfy me about the evolution theory is that it doesnt explain where we got these emotions from. Eddie said it best - "The Oceans made us, but who came up with love?".
To a certain degree that is true..its just human nature.
But if you research some of the most well known bible scholars youd be really surprised at how "unbiased" they were in their original approach to finding scientific proof to back up what the Bible says.
I mean, these men are smart enough to know that they cant just toss a theory out there without solid data and research to back it up.
I was raised with ideas of god. I went to church and sunday school. I was confirmed when I was a teen. Through the whole process, I was mortified by the hypocrisy, judgment, finger pointing and blame. And the lack of sense. After I was confirmed, I was sent a box of envelopes by our church--the ones for putting my financial contribution back into the church, now that I was an "adult". I have not gone back to church for my own purposes since.
I was not the type of person who would follow ideas that did not have sense for me. So I went my own path. Eventually, a very real Source within me started showing me "Universal Truths". When I see such Truth, I am shown it multidimensionally and perfectly. I understand it from all angles. Truth is truth. However, the minute I open up my mouth and try to explain such truth, it is one step removed from the Truth. Then when another person hears my truth, it is one step removed from my truth which is removed from the Truth.
This is what happens with the bible information in my view. At the same time, I also see that for others, they CAN understand the meanings of the bible by reading between the lines of how men have interpreted and unintentionally distorted the Truth--this is due to having a predisposition towards this method of learning about ethics and morality. I can do so if I try to relate. When one looks at the bible in the Spirit of learning through God, they will discern the truths in an intuitive KNOWing sense. And yet, to work that intuition into logical understanding is a step removed; and further removed is acting it out in deed. Hence, we have great truth, and we have great falls from Grace.
At the same time, I completely understand, by my own experience, why one is drawn to learning in a more directly, practical informational sense. And by my experiences with the Light and my understanding of Truth, the Light embraces all experience, 100%. There is no right or wrong way. When we are judged in the presence of the Light, the judgment is our own--when it is revealed to us, the full truths, WE are gladly willing to let drop away what does not work for us.
If one aspires to become an actualized human--to achieve the full blueprint of human potential, there are a few models, including the Buddhist model of enlightenment. Another is Christ consciousness. Some aspire to cosmic consciousness. The blueprint of awakened human potential is the same thing, whatever map is used.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The evolution theory isn't supposed to explain emotions, leave that up to neurobiology.
naděje umírá poslední
Neurobiology can explain the objective manifestation of emotions(edit: ie: in terms of chemicals, actions/reactions, which does not address the experience of such emotions). That is only one side of the coin. Psychology explains the other highly relevant side: subjective experience of emotions. The word "psychology" itself refers to the study of the psyche/soul. And the base laws of the objective study of the subjective psychological experience uncover natural universal laws quite similar and/or identical to the base laws of spirituality and religion, quite wonderfully. When one goes far into psychology, it is difficult to discern it from heightened levels of spirituality.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
See, thats a perfect example of my argument here^^. You spout off like that with no logical evidence to back up what you just said.
Throughout the ENTIRE bible, God gave people so many "chances" before he brought some sort of destruction that it almost makes him seem like a masochist.
1. He gave the people of Noahs day a 40 YEAR WARNING before bringing the flood.
2. The Israelites were disloyal to him numerous times (doing things like building a Golden statue to worship when Moses didnt come down from The Mountain soon enough for them) till finally he was "hurt at his heart) and allowed them to be taken captive by the Babylonians. But STILL he of couse never broke the covenant he had made with Abraham.
3. When he allowed the destruction of Jeruselum in 70 C.E. he first gave a 4 year warning to all the people that the Roman armies were coming.
Collin, Im of course "bottomlining" this. What you said here has nothing to do with my question. Its like, I want to know how we got to point B and you are pointing at point Z and saying "see thats how".
Evolution also explains HOW we got here but not WHY we are here, very unsatisfying to me.
I googled a little, couldn't really find anything convincing or remotely unbiased, do you know any names of well known Bible scholars.
Even if they find scientific proof, it doesn't back up what the bible says at all.
naděje umírá poslední
If I gave you a few names would you even have an open mind to what they had to say?
Because that last comment up their pretty much wipes out anything ANYONE could ever tell you to back up their beliefs. I mean what the hell backs up anything more than scientific proof? UGH! (reaches through her monitor to choke Collin
It makes sense for me to see evolution in the sense that rather than beings being killed of by a seemingly self-contradictory "all-loving" god, there are rational, non-judgmental reasons for it happening instead. Even if we're all looking at the same process.
I see God and evolution as being one and the same. What I must tune out in order to hear "Truth" for me, is the judgment/blame aspects of any system of thought. The judgment/blame aspects are our personal unconscious biased parts. When humans interpret Universal Power in terms of it being judgmental and blaming, I see that it is because we ourselves are that way and it's what we know. Natural cause and effect is somewhat more neutral and realistic than judgment and blame, for me.
I see the validity of what you are saying, too, eden. Your heart is able to understand through the judgment and blame, as well, with the discernment (some might say "bias") of Love and Understanding in your interpretation. I don't mind being biased towards Love, knowing it is the essence of everything.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"where we got these emotions from" and why we are here are two different questions.
Neurobiology can explain the objective manifestation of emotions, as angelica put it. That's where we got them from.
Why we are here, I have no idea, I personally think we don't have a purpose at all. But I think evolution theory and faith can coexist, evolution to explain how we got here and faith and spirituality to explain the "why". I, however, don't believe in the "why."
I certainly would, a critical mind, yes, a closed mind, no.
Proving that all the places mentioned in the bible are real, the kings and people really existed, that even Jesus was real, doesn't prove what the bible says i.e. God exists.
Most works of fiction, use real time settings, real buildings, real events... doesn't mean it's true.
naděje umírá poslední
Angelica,
I totally admire and look for your posts. I find you to be very enlightened.
BUT- its OK to me that there are universal truths, that some things are black and white in this World, your theory FEELS really good but it doesnt answer concrete questions. Its too loosey-goosey for me.
As an example - I could decide that I was going to defy the law of gravity and jump off a cliff because it would FEEL really good to fly and dammitt, Im not going to let anyone judge me, Im going to do as I see fit with no accountability to a higher law than myself. Ok, obviously I could choose to do that, but the result would be my death because as we know the law of Gravity is a higher law than my own personal feelings. Its the same to me with the principles and laws of the Bible.
Are "most" divided into 66 books, written by over 40 men and spanned THOUSANDS of years in its completion from beginning to end??? Please, explain that away to me Collin. As you know - even non-believes know this to be fact and not conjecture or speculations. We have scientifically aged scrolls to prove the time frame of the writing of the Bible.
All those writers share the same faith, it's as simple as that.
naděje umírá poslední
I completely agree that some things are black and white--particularly the Universal Laws, or God's laws.
I agree 100 %. You may not have noticed, but in many of my posts in the past few days, I talk about that we have no choice but to follow Universal Law because we are immersed in it. It sounds like you have questions remaining regarding my approach. It's understandable that it takes time before we all understand each other, if complete understanding is at all possible.
Just yesterday, I said: "Either way we can't dodge the fact that we work around the natural rule--we can't rise above it"
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Hello? The first half of the bible was written by Jews, the second half Christians.
You are just spouting off the top of your head and arent even making sense anymore.
Last time I checked, Jews believed in God and so did Christians.
naděje umírá poslední
Are you agnostic (a bit unsure either way)? Just wondering where you stand because your posts are very intelligent but dont really take a stand on either side. But is nice how the undercurrent of your posts is love and understanding of everyone.
First time I agree with you 100% in this thread, eden
naděje umírá poslední
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You said "share the same faith".
If were talking Gods, well Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God, I dont see how that is relevant to the discussion.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
The point is the bible was written by people who all have faith that god exists, obviously.
400 years BC there were atheists and there are atheists now, does that mean god doesn't exist, no. It doesn't mean anything, it means in the year 400 BC there were people who didn't believe god existed or people who had a lack of faith in god and you had people who believed in god...
naděje umírá poslední