don't get pregnant in the first place. or take the heat if you do. you knew going in there were risks. there are no foolproof birth control methods.
and it's not "her" body, it's the body of a seperate being, fully developed or not...
damn, i can't believe i'm in another one of these....these discussions never lead anywhere. nobody is truly looking to understand the other side.
I think there are those who are looking to understand the other side. Problem is, the "other side" is so ill defined. There are so many aspects and ways of looking at abortion, and people pick and choose what's important to them.
I can understand certain aspects of both sides of the issue, and I also disagree with certain aspects on both sides. In the end, I do not like abortion - but feel that the government should not outlaw it.
My reasoning comes down to the fact that killing a fetus is about the same as removing a mole from your body IN THE ALL-IMPORTANT aspect that the fetus like the mole has no consiousness. If the fetus would be caused any pain whatsoever, then I would be against abortion. It may react to stimuli, but it has no concept of life or death. Abortion in the first trimester isn't that bad.
i do have a question though. what about rape? do you think there should be an exception for abortion in cases of rape or incest?
This is one of the reasons why I think it needs to be kept legal, even though I'm 'pro-life.' I think if police records matched up with the unwanted pregnancy at hand, then she should be able to get an abortion.
The problem with that is that very few women who are raped actually report it to the police. It's a tough issue.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
50% of all fertilized eggs are aborted spontaneously (miscarried)
Determining the prevalence of miscarriage is difficult. Many miscarriages happen very early in the pregnancy, before a woman may know she is pregnant. Treatment of women with miscarriage at home means medical statistics on miscarriage miss many cases. While one study found a total miscarriage of 12%, a study using very sensitive early pregnancy tests found that 25% of pregnancies are miscarried by the sixth week. After the age of 35, the risk of miscarriage increases considerably: 1 in 5 or 6. After 40, the risk increases to 1 in 3, and after 45 it is 1 in 2.
actually, im more a proponent of sterilization for dumb people. but im not getting what i want any time soon. in any case, you statement again assumes abortion is "killing" something, a point we will never see eye to eye on.
i do have a question though. what about rape? do you think there should be an exception for abortion in cases of rape or incest?
this is one of the reasons why I dont complain about it being legal.
Determining the prevalence of miscarriage is difficult. Many miscarriages happen very early in the pregnancy, before a woman may know she is pregnant. Treatment of women with miscarriage at home means medical statistics on miscarriage miss many cases. While one study found a total miscarriage of 12%, a study using very sensitive early pregnancy tests found that 25% of pregnancies are miscarried by the sixth week. After the age of 35, the risk of miscarriage increases considerably: 1 in 5 or 6. After 40, the risk increases to 1 in 3, and after 45 it is 1 in 2.
Here's more information if you're interested.
"It is estimated that up to 50% of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously"
O ok. you mean just an egg and a sperm cell. not a developed fetus? ok
So we're all in favor of the "morning after pill" -- right? The medication that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in a uterus? The thing that anti-abortion groups prevented the FDA from licensing for years and years. Because while we don't want to make judgments about a [developed/fully developed/developing] fetus, we're okay with targeting those fertilized eggs and embryos.
Just checking . . . .
"Things will just get better and better even though it
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
So we're all in favor of the "morning after pill" -- right? The medication that prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in a uterus? The thing that anti-abortion groups prevented the FDA from licensing for years and years. Because while we don't want to make judgments about a [developed/fully developed/developing] fetus, we're okay with targeting those fertilized eggs and embryos.
Just checking . . . .
you havent read all I have to say about abortion. im just checkin
It all depends if you arguing pre-embryonic abortion or embryonic abortion. There are different stages of fetal developement. It's not as if a person just instantly gets a fully developed baby in them.
I consider the morning after pill to be the best form of abortion.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It all depends if you arguing pre-embryonic abortion or embryonic abortion. There are different stages of fetal developement. It's not as if a person just instantly gets a fully developed baby in them.
I consider the morning after pill to be the best form of abortion.
hey buddy. I like that comment. how about that. this might be maybe the second time now?
let me put my body armor on first...cause i'm sure i'm going to catch hell for this...
why not let the woman choose?....initially...
for example:
little 16yo suzie forgets she is ovulating....her and her boyfriend go at it like sweaty sex pigs...and oopsie...we have an unwanted pregnancy! now i'm sure there are some 16 yo capable of good parenting...but face it..if you dont have your mess together...how can you take care of another human being....
little suzie has an abortion....but also gets a microchip implanted with all data pertinent to this specific abortion including the reason for the abortion (unwanted preg., health reasons, rape)
(in case of rape, a police report/case# will also be present)
this was suzie's one free abortion "pass"
let's assume little suzie still can't keep her legs together and gets knocked up again accidentally....of to the clinic we go...suzie is "scanned" and it is determined that this is her second unwanted pregnancy...so, guess what suzie....you get that abortion you want (in the best interest of the child, lets assume)...but you also win today's door prize....
pete...pull back that curtain and show suzie what she has won......
a free sterilization courtesy of your county health department!.....no more bad decisions concerning unwanted pregnancy for you!.....
(the rape cases and health issues concerning the mother would automatically get the "free pass")
a good idea i think...woman retains the right to choose....once.....this just prevents the abortion being used as birth control...
fire away boys and girls....
_____________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
let me put my body armor on first...cause i'm sure i'm going to catch hell for this...
why not let the woman choose?....initially...
for example:
little 16yo suzie forgets she is ovulating....her and her boyfriend go at it like sweaty sex pigs...and oopsie...we have an unwanted pregnancy! now i'm sure there are some 16 yo capable of good parenting...but face it..if you dont have your mess together...how can you take care of another human being....
little suzie has an abortion....but also gets a microchip implanted with all data pertinent to this specific abortion including the reason for the abortion (unwanted preg., health reasons, rape)
(in case of rape, a police report/case# will also be present)
this was suzie's one free abortion "pass"
let's assume little suzie still can't keep her legs together and gets knocked up again accidentally....of to the clinic we go...suzie is "scanned" and it is determined that this is her second unwanted pregnancy...so, guess what suzie....you get that abortion you want (in the best interest of the child, lets assume)...but you also win today's door prize....
pete...pull back that curtain and show suzie what she has won......
a free sterilization courtesy of your county health department!.....no more bad decisions concerning unwanted pregnancy for you!.....
(the rape cases and health issues concerning the mother would automatically get the "free pass")
a good idea i think...woman retains the right to choose....once.....this just prevents the abortion being used as birth control...
fire away boys and girls....
you could also replace airbags with 20 long sharp steak knives. think how many cars wrecks would be avoided.
let me put my body armor on first...cause i'm sure i'm going to catch hell for this...
why not let the woman choose?....initially...
for example:
little 16yo suzie forgets she is ovulating....her and her boyfriend go at it like sweaty sex pigs...and oopsie...we have an unwanted pregnancy! now i'm sure there are some 16 yo capable of good parenting...but face it..if you dont have your mess together...how can you take care of another human being....
little suzie has an abortion....but also gets a microchip implanted with all data pertinent to this specific abortion including the reason for the abortion (unwanted preg., health reasons, rape)
(in case of rape, a police report/case# will also be present)
this was suzie's one free abortion "pass"
let's assume little suzie still can't keep her legs together and gets knocked up again accidentally....of to the clinic we go...suzie is "scanned" and it is determined that this is her second unwanted pregnancy...so, guess what suzie....you get that abortion you want (in the best interest of the child, lets assume)...but you also win today's door prize....
pete...pull back that curtain and show suzie what she has won......
a free sterilization courtesy of your county health department!.....no more bad decisions concerning unwanted pregnancy for you!.....
(the rape cases and health issues concerning the mother would automatically get the "free pass")
a good idea i think...woman retains the right to choose....once.....this just prevents the abortion being used as birth control...
fire away boys and girls....
How is it any of my business how many abortions Suzie has, or her reasons for having them? Why does Suzie have to explain herself to us?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I think there are those who are looking to understand the other side. Problem is, the "other side" is so ill defined. There are so many aspects and ways of looking at abortion, and people pick and choose what's important to them.
I can understand certain aspects of both sides of the issue, and I also disagree with certain aspects on both sides. In the end, I do not like abortion - but feel that the government should not outlaw it.
My reasoning comes down to the fact that killing a fetus is about the same as removing a mole from your body IN THE ALL-IMPORTANT aspect that the fetus like the mole has no consiousness. If the fetus would be caused any pain whatsoever, then I would be against abortion. It may react to stimuli, but it has no concept of life or death. Abortion in the first trimester isn't that bad.
I do try to understand the other side..and I have picked up a few points that make sense...as to your last sentence..thats really the question...when is it a baby.......I know at conception its not....just some organized cells and I know at birth it is.....so when the transition...thats the heart of the debate.
This is one of the reasons why I think it needs to be kept legal, even though I'm 'pro-life.' I think if police records matched up with the unwanted pregnancy at hand, then she should be able to get an abortion.
The problem with that is that very few women who are raped actually report it to the police. It's a tough issue.
this contradiction has always boggled my mind on the pro-life side, and it shows the sexism inherent in the "pro-life" crowd. we've got to prevent women from thinking they can whore it up, so they HAVE to take responsibility for their actions. really, they're using pregnancy as a potential punishment to prevent women from having sex.
becos truly, how can you say you support life and then ok abortion due to rape? it is wrong to kill a baby becos its mother made a mistake, but ok to kill a baby becos its father made a mistake? a baby conceived by rape would still be a human being would it not?. if you are truly pro-life, i see no way you can find an exemption for these "lesser" babies."
I'm sorry if this message is a little off subject, but reading some of the responses I was wondering something :
* After abortion became legal in France, medical survey's helped discover that before that law a lot of "underground" abortions took place (wich were generally done in unhealthy and unsafe ways). Now in a country where abortion is illegal because "killing a foetus is a murder, like killing a human being", do you think a woman conducting an illegal abortion should be considered as a killer?
* I don't know if he has been mentionned in the thread but Steven-D Levitt wrote in freakonomics the results of a theory conducted on the legalisation of abortion and its effect on crime in the us. It is better described in the book (or the article) but Levitt's idea is basically :
Women who have the choice will (in most cases) raise wanted children, these are less likely to grow up to be criminals as opposed to unwanted children (for various reasons : money, drugs, love etc.).
The theory is not at all in favor of abortion, actually Levitt compares the number of murders prevented to the number of additional abortions and raises a moral issue (I wanted to point out that I didn't include this as an argument). Just wandered if anyone else had read that?
this contradiction has always boggled my mind on the pro-life side, and it shows the sexism inherent in the "pro-life" crowd. we've got to prevent women from thinking they can whore it up, so they HAVE to take responsibility for their actions. really, they're using pregnancy as a potential punishment to prevent women from having sex.
becos truly, how can you say you support life and then ok abortion due to rape? it is wrong to kill a baby becos its mother made a mistake, but ok to kill a baby becos its father made a mistake? a baby conceived by rape would still be a human being would it not?. if you are truly pro-life, i see no way you can find an exemption for these "lesser" babies."
First of all, I usually put 'pro-life' in quotation marks for a reason. I really hate that label, because it tends to make people think things about me that aren't true- things like me being a sexist. "If you are truly pro-life..." Give me a fucking break. I don't base my opinions on a stupid label. I go by what I think is right.
And second, your second paragraph there doesn't make any practical sense. It looks great on paper, but think about it. The woman is the one with the baby, right? So, if she gets pregnant because of her own choice to have sex, then she (and the father, for that matter) should be held responsible for that baby. But if she gets pregnant because of rape, then she isn't responsible because it's not her fault. It's not hard to follow.
Raping someone is a lot different from choosing to have sex. Putting them on the same level by calling them both "mistakes" is idiotic.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
First of all, I usually put 'pro-life' in quotation marks for a reason. I really hate that label, because it tends to make people think things about me that aren't true- things like me being a sexist. "If you are truly pro-life..." Give me a fucking break. I don't base my opinions on a stupid label. I go by what I think is right.
And second, your second paragraph there doesn't make any practical sense. It looks great on paper, but think about it. The woman is the one with the baby, right? So, if she gets pregnant because of her own choice to have sex, then she (and the father, for that matter) should be held responsible for that baby. But if she gets pregnant because of rape, then she isn't responsible because it's not her fault. It's not hard to follow.
Raping someone is a lot different from choosing to have sex. Putting them on the same level by calling them both "mistakes" is idiotic.
So your quasi-pro-life stance actually has nothing to do with your belief about when life begins? You are against abortion only because you'd like to see women punished for what you see as their bad bahavior, and you think a baby is a fitting punishment?
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
And here's a question for people on the other side.
Do you believe a winning jackpot lottery ticket is worthless because it hasn't been cashed in yet?
Of course not. A winning lottery ticket is legal tender. It's a credit note from the lottery commission, the same as a dollar bill is a note from the U.S. treasury.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
So your quasi-pro-life stance actually has nothing to do with your belief about when life begins? You are against abortion only because you'd like to see women punished for what you see as their bad bahavior, and you think a baby is a fitting punishment?
Hold up. I think that both the woman AND the man should be held responsible for their actions. Having sex isn't a bad behavior, not at all... but you have to be responsible for anything that can go wrong if you both choose to engage in it.
It's not as much a punishment as it is lying in the bed you made for yourself.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
Hold up. I think that both the woman AND the man should be held responsible for their actions. Having sex isn't a bad behavior, not at all... but you have to be responsible for anything that can go wrong if you both choose to engage in it.
It's not as much a punishment as it is lying in the bed you made for yourself.
Paying for and undergoing an abortion can also be seen as lying in the bed you made for yourself, without creating another person and forcing them to lie in it with you.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Of course not. A winning lottery ticket is legal tender. It's a credit note from the lottery commission, the same as a dollar bill is a note from the U.S. treasury.
I'll assume you understood my metaphor but decided not to play along.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
Paying for and undergoing an abortion can also be seen as lying in the bed you made for yourself, without creating another person and forcing them to lie in it with you.
I see your point. But it's pretty much taking the easy way out. I don't think that is taking responsibility... it's more like just getting rid of it.
And just because a child isn't aborted doesn't mean that he'll have a bad life. You have to give the kid a chance. And if you ask me, having ANY life is better than no life at all... but that's probably another area where we'll disagree.
It's a town full of losers and I'm pulling out of here to win
Hold up. I think that both the woman AND the man should be held responsible for their actions. Having sex isn't a bad behavior, not at all... but you have to be responsible for anything that can go wrong if you both choose to engage in it.
It's not as much a punishment as it is lying in the bed you made for yourself.
you know sometimes despite taking the birth control precautions recommended one does end up pregnant. one has been responsible for their behaviour and yet still finds herself in this predicament.
besides you know females don't make these babies on their own and yet oftentimes she is left to deal with the consequences on her own. at that point, any decision concerning my future and that of my unborn embryo/foetus/child is mine to make alone.
just as life begins at conception, another life can end.
and yes even though i am pro choice i believe that life does begin at conception. and i'm sure i'm not the only one.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I see your point. But it's pretty much taking the easy way out. I don't think that is taking responsibility... it's more like just getting rid of it.
And just because a child isn't aborted doesn't mean that he'll have a bad life. You have to give the kid a chance. And if you ask me, having ANY life is better than no life at all... but that's probably another area where we'll disagree.
are you kidding me?
how is making the hardest decision of your life taking the easy way out?
deciding whether or not to continue with a pregnancy is the most soul searching decision a woman can make. it is not an easy thing by any stretch of the imagination. and i take offense at your trivialising of the matter. you make it sound as if deciding to terminate a pregnancy is as flippant a decision as what flavour ice cream to buy. it is not.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
First of all, I usually put 'pro-life' in quotation marks for a reason. I really hate that label, because it tends to make people think things about me that aren't true- things like me being a sexist. "If you are truly pro-life..." Give me a fucking break. I don't base my opinions on a stupid label. I go by what I think is right.
And second, your second paragraph there doesn't make any practical sense. It looks great on paper, but think about it. The woman is the one with the baby, right? So, if she gets pregnant because of her own choice to have sex, then she (and the father, for that matter) should be held responsible for that baby. But if she gets pregnant because of rape, then she isn't responsible because it's not her fault. It's not hard to follow.
Raping someone is a lot different from choosing to have sex. Putting them on the same level by calling them both "mistakes" is idiotic.
ah, but see... this debate for you has nothing to do with valuing the life of a baby. it's about making sure those women "take responsibility" (basically, bear the punishment) of having sex. becos, YOUR argument has no response to the fact that the baby conceived by rape is still a baby, still a viable, innocent human being. so why should it be punished becos of its father's actions? just becos it's father was a criminal who committed a horrific act does not mean that baby should bear the consquences of that. you're still killing an innocent child, based on the sins of its father. if this is truly about protecting innocent human life, there is no way that is justifiable.
Comments
I think there are those who are looking to understand the other side. Problem is, the "other side" is so ill defined. There are so many aspects and ways of looking at abortion, and people pick and choose what's important to them.
I can understand certain aspects of both sides of the issue, and I also disagree with certain aspects on both sides. In the end, I do not like abortion - but feel that the government should not outlaw it.
My reasoning comes down to the fact that killing a fetus is about the same as removing a mole from your body IN THE ALL-IMPORTANT aspect that the fetus like the mole has no consiousness. If the fetus would be caused any pain whatsoever, then I would be against abortion. It may react to stimuli, but it has no concept of life or death. Abortion in the first trimester isn't that bad.
This is one of the reasons why I think it needs to be kept legal, even though I'm 'pro-life.' I think if police records matched up with the unwanted pregnancy at hand, then she should be able to get an abortion.
The problem with that is that very few women who are raped actually report it to the police. It's a tough issue.
Determining the prevalence of miscarriage is difficult. Many miscarriages happen very early in the pregnancy, before a woman may know she is pregnant. Treatment of women with miscarriage at home means medical statistics on miscarriage miss many cases. While one study found a total miscarriage of 12%, a study using very sensitive early pregnancy tests found that 25% of pregnancies are miscarried by the sixth week. After the age of 35, the risk of miscarriage increases considerably: 1 in 5 or 6. After 40, the risk increases to 1 in 3, and after 45 it is 1 in 2.
this is one of the reasons why I dont complain about it being legal.
Here's more information if you're interested.
"It is estimated that up to 50% of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously"
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm
here is a source that says its 10%-25%.
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycomplications/miscarriage.html
I think you misunderstand. I'm discussing fertilized eggs. Your source estimates that fertilized eggs are lost 50-75% of the time.
O ok. you mean just an egg and a sperm cell. not a developed fetus? ok
Just checking . . . .
doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
Hope! Hope is the underdog!"
-- EV, Live at the Showbox
you havent read all I have to say about abortion. im just checkin
I consider the morning after pill to be the best form of abortion.
hey buddy. I like that comment. how about that. this might be maybe the second time now?
why not let the woman choose?....initially...
for example:
little 16yo suzie forgets she is ovulating....her and her boyfriend go at it like sweaty sex pigs...and oopsie...we have an unwanted pregnancy! now i'm sure there are some 16 yo capable of good parenting...but face it..if you dont have your mess together...how can you take care of another human being....
little suzie has an abortion....but also gets a microchip implanted with all data pertinent to this specific abortion including the reason for the abortion (unwanted preg., health reasons, rape)
(in case of rape, a police report/case# will also be present)
this was suzie's one free abortion "pass"
let's assume little suzie still can't keep her legs together and gets knocked up again accidentally....of to the clinic we go...suzie is "scanned" and it is determined that this is her second unwanted pregnancy...so, guess what suzie....you get that abortion you want (in the best interest of the child, lets assume)...but you also win today's door prize....
pete...pull back that curtain and show suzie what she has won......
a free sterilization courtesy of your county health department!.....no more bad decisions concerning unwanted pregnancy for you!.....
(the rape cases and health issues concerning the mother would automatically get the "free pass")
a good idea i think...woman retains the right to choose....once.....this just prevents the abortion being used as birth control...
fire away boys and girls....
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
- Benjamin Franklin
If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers
_____________________
you could also replace airbags with 20 long sharp steak knives. think how many cars wrecks would be avoided.
I do try to understand the other side..and I have picked up a few points that make sense...as to your last sentence..thats really the question...when is it a baby.......I know at conception its not....just some organized cells and I know at birth it is.....so when the transition...thats the heart of the debate.
this contradiction has always boggled my mind on the pro-life side, and it shows the sexism inherent in the "pro-life" crowd. we've got to prevent women from thinking they can whore it up, so they HAVE to take responsibility for their actions. really, they're using pregnancy as a potential punishment to prevent women from having sex.
becos truly, how can you say you support life and then ok abortion due to rape? it is wrong to kill a baby becos its mother made a mistake, but ok to kill a baby becos its father made a mistake? a baby conceived by rape would still be a human being would it not?. if you are truly pro-life, i see no way you can find an exemption for these "lesser" babies."
* After abortion became legal in France, medical survey's helped discover that before that law a lot of "underground" abortions took place (wich were generally done in unhealthy and unsafe ways). Now in a country where abortion is illegal because "killing a foetus is a murder, like killing a human being", do you think a woman conducting an illegal abortion should be considered as a killer?
* I don't know if he has been mentionned in the thread but Steven-D Levitt wrote in freakonomics the results of a theory conducted on the legalisation of abortion and its effect on crime in the us. It is better described in the book (or the article) but Levitt's idea is basically :
Women who have the choice will (in most cases) raise wanted children, these are less likely to grow up to be criminals as opposed to unwanted children (for various reasons : money, drugs, love etc.).
The theory is not at all in favor of abortion, actually Levitt compares the number of murders prevented to the number of additional abortions and raises a moral issue (I wanted to point out that I didn't include this as an argument). Just wandered if anyone else had read that?
First of all, I usually put 'pro-life' in quotation marks for a reason. I really hate that label, because it tends to make people think things about me that aren't true- things like me being a sexist. "If you are truly pro-life..." Give me a fucking break. I don't base my opinions on a stupid label. I go by what I think is right.
And second, your second paragraph there doesn't make any practical sense. It looks great on paper, but think about it. The woman is the one with the baby, right? So, if she gets pregnant because of her own choice to have sex, then she (and the father, for that matter) should be held responsible for that baby. But if she gets pregnant because of rape, then she isn't responsible because it's not her fault. It's not hard to follow.
Raping someone is a lot different from choosing to have sex. Putting them on the same level by calling them both "mistakes" is idiotic.
Do you believe a winning jackpot lottery ticket is worthless because it hasn't been cashed in yet?
Hold up. I think that both the woman AND the man should be held responsible for their actions. Having sex isn't a bad behavior, not at all... but you have to be responsible for anything that can go wrong if you both choose to engage in it.
It's not as much a punishment as it is lying in the bed you made for yourself.
I'll assume you understood my metaphor but decided not to play along.
I see your point. But it's pretty much taking the easy way out. I don't think that is taking responsibility... it's more like just getting rid of it.
And just because a child isn't aborted doesn't mean that he'll have a bad life. You have to give the kid a chance. And if you ask me, having ANY life is better than no life at all... but that's probably another area where we'll disagree.
you know sometimes despite taking the birth control precautions recommended one does end up pregnant. one has been responsible for their behaviour and yet still finds herself in this predicament.
besides you know females don't make these babies on their own and yet oftentimes she is left to deal with the consequences on her own. at that point, any decision concerning my future and that of my unborn embryo/foetus/child is mine to make alone.
just as life begins at conception, another life can end.
and yes even though i am pro choice i believe that life does begin at conception. and i'm sure i'm not the only one.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how is making the hardest decision of your life taking the easy way out?
deciding whether or not to continue with a pregnancy is the most soul searching decision a woman can make. it is not an easy thing by any stretch of the imagination. and i take offense at your trivialising of the matter. you make it sound as if deciding to terminate a pregnancy is as flippant a decision as what flavour ice cream to buy. it is not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
ah, but see... this debate for you has nothing to do with valuing the life of a baby. it's about making sure those women "take responsibility" (basically, bear the punishment) of having sex. becos, YOUR argument has no response to the fact that the baby conceived by rape is still a baby, still a viable, innocent human being. so why should it be punished becos of its father's actions? just becos it's father was a criminal who committed a horrific act does not mean that baby should bear the consquences of that. you're still killing an innocent child, based on the sins of its father. if this is truly about protecting innocent human life, there is no way that is justifiable.