How is abortion morally ethical.....

sonicreducer

AllNiteThing wrote:

I have a question for the pro-life Christians:

what does it matter to you I ask?

im pretty sure that cells are the smallest units of life,... i could be wrong though.

AllNiteThing

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

People are still going to debate what is a human life and what isn't.

A mass of cells without a central nervous system is no more a human than a strand of my hair. If they want to argue otherwise, then there is no point. One cannot argue with the delusional.


Honestly, we are animals and should just look to mother nature for our way to live. In other words, what we do is what we do, it is all natural. Abortions have always happened and always will happen. All this arguing and morality bs is just that. Even if legislation still came down, it wouldn't really matter. Just like murder and kinky sex and drug use. It is ingrained within us, it is natural with our species, and will always occur. Some things need to be legislated to keep this idea of society and culture together, such as criminalizing murder. But doing so with abortion will affect nothing other than make the morally superior be able to pat themselves on the back.

AllNiteThing

sonicreducer wrote:

im pretty sure that cells are the smallest units of life,... i could be wrong though.

So, you should never go to the bathroom! You are throwing all those cells away. That's life down the drain! :rolleyes:

Edit: Damn...and now I get pulled into the delusional argument! I'm done.

stupidcorporatewhore

Hmmm Iraq is an absolute mess

Terrorism on the rise

half of Republicans under indictment, the rest are pedophiles.

it's election time again.....

must be time for conservatives to turn to their one bedrock issue (mainly because it's the one issue that you can be right on based soley on opinion)

YAWN!!!

dangerboy

giventofaith wrote:

While I agree that this is totally not good. My question is ... would we (society) be better off if this very messed up woman have had 6 unwanted children? At the very least they would have to live thier lives with an incredible irresponsible mother. I don't even want to think about the worst.

i would wager that after the first one, there wouldn't have been five more. giving up a baby for adoption or having to raise one when you didn't really intend to have one will cause you to think twice next time....

dangerboy

AllNiteThing wrote:

One cannot argue with the delusional.

calling the other side delusional is non-productive. it tends to cause people to put up a wall to anything else you say. works for both sides of any argument...

AllNiteThing wrote:

Honestly, we are animals and should just look to mother nature for our way to live. In other words, what we do is what we do, it is all natural. Abortions have always happened and always will happen.

abortion is not natural. miscarriage is natural. birth is natural. abortion cannot happen without outside, unnatural interference.

sonicreducer

AllNiteThing wrote:

So, you should never go to the bathroom! You are throwing all those cells away. That's life down the drain! :rolleyes:

Edit: Damn...and now I get pulled into the delusional argument! I'm done.

it seems plain to me that if somebody is pregnant with a developing baby in her womb, regardless of how you define 'life', it is wrong to end even the chance of that life.

though, i know that this isn't the most fair solution, considering how fucked up people have made this world.

i think each case should be looked at, dissected, and then a decision made on. though i would disagree with ever letting it happen, i would accept the idea that it isn't up to me.

i would never want to be involved with such a horrific choice, and im done with this thread because it makes me sick.

giventofaith

dangerboy wrote:

i would wager that after the first one, there wouldn't have been five more. giving up a baby for adoption or having to raise one when you didn't really intend to have one will cause you to think twice next time....

I think you would be very surprised. Expecially when a woman is poor and/or in an abusive relationship. And to the same point, for most people (maybe not this particular woman) abortion does make you think twice the next time. It is not as 'easy' as many people portray it to be and many women AGONIZE over the decision before and after. Of course there is always the exception and they seem to crawl out of the woodwork during discussions like this.

VictoryGin

dangerboy wrote:

i would wager that after the first one, there wouldn't have been five more. giving up a baby for adoption or having to raise one when you didn't really intend to have one will cause you to think twice next time....

It's so encouraging to treat childrearing as a punishment. Poor kid.

decides2dream

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

Very good. You can have a gold star for that.

*happily accepts gold star*

glad someone else enjoyed it...i thought i was merely entertaining myself there.


it seemed about the most useful contribution to make to this thread.

catefrances

in the ideal world women would be able to decide what is best for them. but because childbearing is something outside the realm of male influence after the initial impregnation, they feel it necessary to tell women what they can and can not do with their body. what they, as men, believe is best for the womenand unborn involved. well i'm 100% certain that i know carrying an unwanted pregancy for whatever reason, is NOT the best thing for me or the life inside me. and if i so choose i will be the one making that decision. no one else. especially not some man who has no bloody idea what it is like to carry that life inside him.

jlew24asu

AllNiteThing wrote:

Honestly, we are animals and should just look to mother nature for our way to live. In other words, what we do is what we do, it is all natural. Abortions have always happened and always will happen. .

your trying to say abortion is natural? now that is delusional

Scratchin a Letter

ive been telling myself to stay out of this thread but i dont care now.
the kind of people that protest abortion have absolutely no fucking idea what its like as a process to go through. i am sick of middle class religious freaks going on about it being immoral to terminate a foetus yet its fine to execute an adult. speaking as someone who has been through it (well, not physically but emotioanlly), it was agonising and painful. it's not a nice thing. of course not. but in a small number of cases, it is necessary. it was necessary for my girlfriend to carry on living happily; at seventeen she wouldn't have been able to cope through pregnancy or indeed raise a child. in miller's view she should have given he/she up for adoption. thats not as easy as it seems. how can you give your baby away? it would cause distractions throughout her life and the whole 'reunion' issue in years to come. it would have been traumatic. its not a case of, "oh, my liberal, tree-hugging self is pregnant, im gunna go kill it!", its something that changes your ;life and will no doubt have a big affect on my life for a while anyway.

its a last resort; when all else fails. contraception is not always effective. period. in that case it wasnt. so god forbid one of the bush twins was raped by a man with hiv positive; would she go through with it? for the sake of politics? i think not. i'm not saying it has to be somehing that is praised and shouted about, but it should exist.

================================================
as far as the death penalty goes, its just the ethic that "two wrongs make a right", something that seems to be american philosophy. no good ever comes out of it. it provides the criminal with an escape and a quick way out. somebody who is a murderer, and who is definitely a murderer, should be locked up for life with the guilt, lonliness and pain of ;iving with what they have done.

DOSW

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I'm with this guy. People talk about CHOICE. You make the CHOICE when you willfully allow the peg to fit into the hole. There isn't a woman on this planet that is able to conceive that doesn't understand the potential responsibility (pregnancy) ahead of her.

It's that simple. like this guy said, no birth control method is 100% guaranteed. You take a risk when you have sex. If you get pregnant, there should be no OOPS! Abortion! You made a mistake, but should have understood the consequences of your actions.

No one gives you your money back if you lose it in the stock market. If you understood the risks and potential negative consequences beforehand, you might reconsider before you do certain things.

Do whatever else you want with YOUR body. Don't hurt the living being inside. That's someone else.

Back to the original post, it's kind of odd how one is legal, and the other isn't. I'm against both myself. Here's what's even worse about it:

Death Penalty: Taking the life of someone who probably deserves it. This isn't 100% accepted in our country. Every state has different laws on it.

Abortion: Taking the life of someone who has never done ANYTHING wrong. And it's legal everywhere in this country.

All in all, take responsibility before anything you do.

I really like this post. You said it better than I ever could.

The abortion issue is one of the few things that I really take a "conservative" stance on.

DOSW

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

People are still going to debate what is a human life and what isn't.

I personally could not care less what is or is not human life. In my opinion, that is a completely overblown argument when it comes to abortion.

A fetus WILL BE a human life, even if it isn't yet. It's like saying a jackpot lottery ticket is worthless because it hasn't been cashed in yet.

When you have an abortion, you are taking a human life. No amount of attempted rationalization (like 'but it's not a human life yet!') can change that fact.

cincybearcat

DOSW wrote:

I personally could not care less what is or is not human life. In my opinion, that is a completely overblown argument when it comes to abortion.

A fetus WILL BE a human life, even if it isn't yet. It's like saying a jackpot lottery ticket is worthless because it hasn't been cashed in yet.

When you have an abortion, you are taking a human life. No amount of attempted rationalization (like 'but it's not a human life yet!') can change that fact.

I like that point.

Personally I think people will look to any means necessary to make their own life as convienent as possible. Hence rationalizing abortion. They will also go to great lenghts to try to rationlize their feelings/emotions. Hence rationalizing the Death Penalty (which I do myself).

Perhaps they are both wrong, though I still currently support the death penalty. Funny that some people worry so much about the possiblity of killing an innocent person but they have no qualms over the knowledge that a fetus will become a person unless you physically or chemically stop it.

UNfortunately, for some things in life, you don't get a do-over. Remember do-overs? Do-overs are for when you are a kid...not for when you are having a kid. And perhaps, a good argument against the death penalty as well since their are no do-overs, you can't mess up.

Vedderlution_Baby

I think it's safe to say that this issue will never be resolved. Just another one to throw onto the pile.

VINNY GOOMBA

DOSW wrote:

I really like this post. You said it better than I ever could.

The abortion issue is one of the few things that I really take a "conservative" stance on.

Glad you like it. I'd love for everyone to like it... To me, it's that simple. The second YOU CHOOSE to go for the act, you renounce any "rights" you have to UNDO IT.

Sure, the child could be brought into a harsh environment... If you care so much about the child, that is, care enough to kill it before it can experience such a terrible world (sarcasm)--- how bout you just keep your legs closed?
If you really think that pregnancy 100% can't happen... YOU'RE WRONG.

I can never know what it feels like to be the woman carrying that baby. You got me there. But I do know that all women understand what comes with sex: maybe pleasure, maybe pain,--hey, maybe even a few orgasms if you know what you're doin, and of course, maybe pregnancy. YOU MAKE YOUR CHOICE WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO HAVE SEX.

Boom The Cat

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Glad you like it. I'd love for everyone to like it... To me, it's that simple. The second YOU CHOOSE to go for the act, you renounce any "rights" you have to UNDO IT.

Sure, the child could be brought into a harsh environment... If you care so much about the child, that is, care enough to kill it before it can experience such a terrible world (sarcasm)--- how bout you just keep your legs closed?
If you really think that pregnancy 100% can't happen... YOU'RE WRONG.

I can never know what it feels like to be the woman carrying that baby. You got me there. But I do know that all women understand what comes with sex: maybe pleasure, maybe pain,--hey, maybe even a few orgasms if you know what you're doin, and of course, maybe pregnancy. YOU MAKE YOUR CHOICE WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO HAVE SEX.

I agree, but...

Women should definatley be careful as to what 'wanders in' but I don't think abortion should be outlawed. Whether you believe it is wrong or not isn't the point, it isnt anyones bussiness as to what women decide to do.

hippiemom

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Glad you like it. I'd love for everyone to like it... To me, it's that simple. The second YOU CHOOSE to go for the act, you renounce any "rights" you have to UNDO IT.

Sure, the child could be brought into a harsh environment... If you care so much about the child, that is, care enough to kill it before it can experience such a terrible world (sarcasm)--- how bout you just keep your legs closed?
If you really think that pregnancy 100% can't happen... YOU'RE WRONG.

I can never know what it feels like to be the woman carrying that baby. You got me there. But I do know that all women understand what comes with sex: maybe pleasure, maybe pain,--hey, maybe even a few orgasms if you know what you're doin, and of course, maybe pregnancy. YOU MAKE YOUR CHOICE WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO HAVE SEX.

Ok, got that ladies? If you don't want a baby right now, YOU CAN'T HAVE SEX! Not at all! No birth control is 100% effective, so you just tell that husband of yours that he'll be sleeping on the couch until you get your masters degree and save up for a downpayment on a house. Sex is bad, bad, bad, unless you're willing to make a baby :rolleyes: