Eddie believes in 911 inside job?

Heineken Helen

nobody wrote:

well, I wasn't talking to you here, but to the other poster (spiral out):)
you should watch it...I think it's worth it...yet the deception is clear as well...
and don't get me started about that "lecture" that claims Bush is the beginning of an american third reich...;)

and really the only thing I'm trying to put forth here (and in every other post I comment on) there's hardly ever only two sides to some story...
many people are to comfortable with the us vs. them logic...is all I'm saying:)

m.

No, I agree with you... I don't think it's us vs them... cos I think there are plenty of different groups.

Besides... see my bigger reply on the bottom of page 1

nobody

Heineken Helen wrote:

I haven't taken any conspiracy theory and accepted it as fact or rehashed somebody elses words to 'prove my point'. I've listened to every side of it and I decide whether or not I believe we're being told the entire truth. Of course this is only my opinion and I really don't expect people to care... but sometimes there is more than enough evidence on the lesser listened to side to suggest otherwise.

just to emphasize my point a last time;)
as you talk about the two sides again...
not being told the entire truth doesn't equal that everything that has been said is false...not in most cases anyway...but people like to jump into a certain line and log in...

oh, and the film you can easily find on google.video:)

m.

riffrandall

walkthamile wrote:

Bu$hleaguer
"A confidence man, but why so beleaguered?
He's not a leader, he's a Texas leaguer
Swinging for the fence, got lucky with a strike
Drilling for fear, makes the job simple
Born on third, thinks he got a triple

Blackout weaves its way through the cities
Blackout weaves its way through the cities
Blackout weaves its way,..."

quote]

Isn't the blackout mentioned here specifically talking about the forced brownouts in San Francisco in the spring of 2001? I know I've read that this song was inspired before September 11th.

The Champ

Heineken Helen wrote:

well, that maybe the most respectful argument I've seen in response to conspiracy theories. Trust me... I'm well used to the tinfoil hat responses... i.e being dismissed immediately cos I tend to look at who has the most to gain from things that happen. It's rarely the people who are accused... that's in complete contrast to the 'justice system'.

Usually the people with the most to gain are automatic suspects immediately. So why, when it's big, is this overlooked?

I don't think it's easy to come up with different theories... it's much easier to read the papers or listen to people telling you what happened... and just take their word for it. I was brought up to think for myself. Of COURSE I don't have as much information as many people but there's rarely smoke without fire.

I haven't taken any conspiracy theory and accepted it as fact or rehashed somebody elses words to 'prove my point'. I've listened to every side of it and I decide whether or not I believe we're being told the entire truth. Of course this is only my opinion and I really don't expect people to care... but sometimes there is more than enough evidence on the lesser listened to side to suggest otherwise. There is also enough evidence that the media immediately dismisses anyone who says otherwise as nutjobs... blatently.

In all fairness, I'm sure many here have been referred to as 'nutjobs' long before 9/11 ..

Heineken Helen

nobody wrote:

just to emphasize my point a last time;)
as you talk about the two sides again...
not being told the entire truth doesn't equal that everything that has been said is false...not in most cases anyway...but people like to jump into a certain line and log in...

oh, and the film you can easily find on google.video:)

m.

I said 'every side' ... because I said 'the lesser listened to side' does not mean I was implying there was only two

I don't jump on a line and log in... most of the theories I've come up with have simply been me doin the math... I'm sure I'm probably wrong with maybe 60 or 70%. I don't claim to speak the truth or know the facts... I claim we don't KNOW the full truth or facts... which I believe is true about the majority of stuff we're told. I just don't accept what I'm told and I don't understand why so many are so quick to do so either

Oh and by the way conspiracy theories do not equate facism. I know you said 'in your country' but Germany is probably not the best example to use of how the masses choose to think or act. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. But you can't keep WWII in mind ALL the time when you're thinking about people having free choices or free thought. This RARELY results in WWII... actually I think that only happened once

Heineken Helen

The Champ wrote:

In all fairness, I'm sure many here have been referred to as 'nutjobs' long before 9/11 ..

Of course to be honest... I actually think conspiracy theories are slowly becoming MORE acceptable . I think the world has changed too much and too fast since 9/11 so people are noticing things they wouldn't have noticed before.

The Champ

riffrandall wrote:

walkthamile wrote:

Bu$hleaguer
"A confidence man, but why so beleaguered?
He's not a leader, he's a Texas leaguer
Swinging for the fence, got lucky with a strike
Drilling for fear, makes the job simple
Born on third, thinks he got a triple

Blackout weaves its way through the cities
Blackout weaves its way through the cities
Blackout weaves its way,..."

quote]

Isn't the blackout mentioned here specifically talking about the forced brownouts in San Francisco in the spring of 2001? I know I've read that this song was inspired before September 11th.

lol..get a clue ..'blackout weaves its way through the cities' clearly refers to the New York City blackout of 1977..Here I'll prove it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_blackout_of_1977

nobody

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh and by the way conspiracy theories do not equate facism. I know you said 'in your country' but Germany is probably not the best example to use of how the masses choose to think or act. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. But you can't keep WWII in mind ALL the time when you're thinking about people having free choices or free thought. This RARELY results in WWII... actually I think that only happened once

off topic again;)

well, the masses don't believe in a 911 inside job:)
yet, the conspiracy theories now put forth by (well meaning) left circles so closely resemble theories about the world dominance of certain people that it's unbelievable people buy into it...now they call them international (jewish) bankers...I suggest reading some of the original ideological sources about the international (financial) jew conspiracy that is responsible for all the world's problems and compare them to todays intellectual highlights...

funny enough in germany now, the far (not Nazi) right supports israel full force and condemns muslims, while the (really) far left sides with palestine and sees the mossad and Israel behind everything (also seen remarks like that on this board)...
so your historical analogy fails here...;)

m.

Jason P

I have never seen any proof that Ed would believe in a conspiracy theory. Ed sees things from the far left side of the glass, but I have faith that he does not believe the US was behind this.

Heineken Helen

nobody wrote:

off topic again;)

well, the masses don't believe in a 911 inside job:)
yet, the conspiracy theories now put forth by (well meaning) left circles so closely resemble theories about the world dominance of certain people that it's unbelievable people buy into it...now they call them international (jewish) bankers...

funny enough in germany now, the far (not Nazi) right supports israel full force and condemns muslims, while the (really) far left sides with palestine and sees the mossad and Israel behind everything (also seen remarks like that on this board)...
so your historical analogy fails here...;)

m.

How does my historical analogy fail here? Sure there are a few people on the board who go on about Israel and Jews dominating the world... but there are a few people on the board who back up almost every point of view. Of the people I believe are running the world, I believe the percentage of jews is probably directly proportional to the percentage of jews in the world :cool:

What brought me to my conclusion about you comparing it to nazi Germany... is because that's what you do. And you've just done it again.... by saying we're accusing the Jews!

spiral out

Heineken Helen wrote:

I don't think it's easy to come up with different theories... it's much easier to read the papers or listen to people telling you what happened... and just take their word for it. I was brought up to think for myself. Of COURSE I don't have as much information as many people but there's rarely smoke without fire.

I haven't taken any conspiracy theory and accepted it as fact or rehashed somebody elses words to 'prove my point'. I've listened to every side of it and I decide whether or not I believe we're being told the entire truth. Of course this is only my opinion and I really don't expect people to care... but sometimes there is more than enough evidence on the lesser listened to side to suggest otherwise. There is also enough evidence that the media immediately dismisses anyone who says otherwise as nutjobs... blatently.

I think this reply is bang on the money. It is far easier to follow along with what the media tells you as it requires absolutely no thought on our part.

But unfortunately for me if something doesn't sit right with me i have a knack of not following along with what the mainstream goes with.

I mean come on, regarding 9/11 why haven't they at least investigated the towers collapse from the explosives angle. They spent a very long time trying to come up with another reason and really it doesn't sit right.

Heineken Helen

spiral out wrote:

I think this reply is bang on the money. It is far easier to follow along with what the media tells you as it requires absolutely no thought on our part.

But unfortunately for me if something doesn't sit right with me i have a knack of not following along with what the mainstream goes with.

I mean come on, regarding 9/11 why haven't they at least investigated the towers collapse from the explosives angle. They spent a very long time trying to come up with another reason and really it doesn't sit right.

To be honest, I don't actually know enough about the 9/11 conspiracy theory... cos I think it's just little fish in a much bigger pond. It's just usually very coincidental that these things only serve to empower certain people further (rarely the 'bad guys')

spiral out

nobody wrote:

and really the only thing I'm trying to put forth here (and in every other post I comment on) there's hardly ever only two sides to some story...
many people are to comfortable with the us vs. them logic...is all I'm saying:)

m.

Ok to me the people who are comfortable with the us vs them logic are the people who believe what the papers say.

Now i am not saying that everyone who follows the media and believes it has that mindset, but as far as i can see of the people i know around me they are the ones with that logic not those who have questions.

dg1979us

spiral out wrote:

Ok to me the people who are comfortable with the us vs them logic are the people who believe what the papers say.

Now i am not saying that everyone who follows the media and believes it has that mindset, but as far as i can see of the people i know around me they are the ones with that logic not those who have questions.

The "us vs them" logic almost entirely stems from the "conspiracy theorists", not the mainstream people who read newspapers.

spiral out

Heineken Helen wrote:

To be honest, I don't actually know enough about the 9/11 conspiracy theory... cos I think it's just little fish in a much bigger pond. It's just usually very coincidental that these things only serve to empower certain people further (rarely the 'bad guys')

Check out the video in this thread if you have time it's very good.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=292756

But yea 9/11 is just a tiny part of the whole picture and was just a catalyst to get into the middle east.

nobody

Heineken Helen wrote:

How does my historical analogy fail here? Sure there are a few people on the board who go on about Israel and Jews dominating the world... but there are a few people on the board who back up almost every point of view. Of the people I believe are running the world, I believe the percentage of jews is probably directly proportional to the percentage of jews in the world :cool:

What brought me to my conclusion about you comparing it to nazi Germany... is because that's what you do. And you've just done it again.... by saying we're accusing the Jews!

well, let's not start arguing about the unimportant things again...here is what I say:

the theories put forth today with a few people running the show pulling the strings in back rooms etc (oh and they're filty rich or course) so closely resemble older material that you can put in the word "banker" instead of "jew" and it leaves you with basically the same thought experiment. don't think only germans are able to see that...;)
it has become widely popular in left circles (not only in germany) to blame israel for each and everything...even sarkozy is supposed to be a mossad spy or some nonsense like that...
I don't see WWIII coming because of that...it's just a bit sad how people so easily buy into very old stories to explain the world...

m.

Heineken Helen

dg1979us wrote:

The "us vs them" logic almost entirely stems from the "conspiracy theorists", not the mainstream people who read newspapers.

I can't speak for even a tiny percentage of conspiracy theorists... but I know when I speak of 'them' it's jokingly. I refer to them... cos it's not like I can use names or specific examples half the time. It does seem to me that it's quite obvious there's a lot of globalisation goin on though... and people making more and more decisions on our behalf... so it's THOSE people I refer to as 'them'... simply cos it's easier. If that implies that I think there's a simple us vs them 2 sidedness to this whole thing, well then so be it.

spiral out

dg1979us wrote:

The "us vs them" logic almost entirely stems from the "conspiracy theorists", not the mainstream people who read newspapers.

Ok well the us vs them i have heard is from bush's mouth. Like you guys vs the terrorists.

So do you mean it's the conspiracy theorists vs the mainstream believers then?

dg1979us

Heineken Helen wrote:

I can't speak for even a tiny percentage of conspiracy theorists... but I know when I speak of 'them' it's jokingly. I refer to them... cos it's not like I can use names or specific examples half the time. It does seem to me that it's quite obvious there's a lot of globalisation goin on though... and people making more and more decisions on our behalf... so it's THOSE people I refer to as 'them'... simply cos it's easier. If that implies that I think there's a simple us vs them 2 sidedness to this whole thing, well then so be it.

Of course there is globalization going on, that is certainly obvious.

And secondly, I wasnt referring to you. I was referring to spirals post that people comfortable with the "us vs them" attitude comes from your average joe blow reading newspapers over coffee or something, which isnt the least bit true. So, not sure what most of your post has to do with what I said. I didnt quote you or single you out at all.

Heineken Helen

nobody wrote:

well, let's not start arguing about the unimportant things again...here is what I say:

the theories put forth today with a few people running the show pulling the strings in back rooms etc (oh and they're filty rich or course) so closely resemble older material that you can put in the word "banker" instead of "jew" and it leaves you with basically the same thought experiment. don't think only germans are able to see that...;)
it has become widely popular in left circles (not only in germany) to blame israel for each and everything...even sarkozy is supposed to be a mossad spy or some nonsense like that...
I don't see WWIII coming because of that...it's just a bit sad how people so easily buy into very old stories to explain the world...

m.

See... I can also use the 'history repeating' in several instances to support MY side of things. What happened in WWII was because of mass opinions or whatever... however didn't it also begin out of fear that was instilled into people? Fear of losing their jobs, homes everything... whether or not this fear was justified... fact is people only act out in such a way when they feel like they're defending themselves. All too often they're defending themselves from lies... as we see right now with the US defending themselves from Iraq

You're the one who keeps bringing up Israel in here. Lol, you think the world is turning against the bankers?