El Presidente Hugo Chavez!

freedomboy

CorporateWhore wrote:

And you're a socialist who favors a totalitarian dictator. As long as we're tossing out generalizations...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Free_speech

I recently spoke to a former foreign exchange student friend of mine from Venezuela and he views Chavez's actions as totalitarian.

The people that you know live in the U.S. for a reason: Venezuela's economy is crumbling because of Chavez's actions. He is making businesses state-owned and ruining their efficiency, making them uncompetitive. Venezuela has much potential, but not with a socialist running the show.

1. Predictable. I knew you wouldn't see that I was mocking your generalization.

2. Chavez doesn't snuff out any opposing view, he snuffs out the view of people who would conspire against him in an unlawful manner! There is a huge difference! I don't think it is so easy to say you wouldn't do something similar if you were in his shoes.

3. Socialism will work if he isn't murdered. Since you promoted "competition" there, I assume you think capitalism is a fair alternative to socialized systems...

CorporateWhore

brokendave wrote:

2. Chavez doesn't snuff out any opposing view, he snuffs out the view of people who would conspire against him in an unlawful manner! There is a huge difference! I don't think it is so easy to say you wouldn't do something similar if you were in his shoes.

lol! Conspire against him in an unlawful manner. Define unlawful. Breathing on him incorrectly?

brokendave wrote:

3. Socialism will work if he isn't murdered. Since you promoted "competition" there, I assume you think capitalism is a fair alternative to socialized systems...

Capitalism will result from that socialist experiment. Eventually their economy will come toppling down and Chavez will have no more support. Socialism will always lead to economic depression no matter what you do.

Hartydog

CorporateWhore wrote:

Capitalism will result from that socialist experiment. Eventually their economy will come toppling down and Chavez will have no more support. Socialism will always lead to economic depression no matter what you do.

Exactly. For example see the USSR

freedomboy

CorporateWhore wrote:

lol! Conspire against him in an unlawful manner. Define unlawful. Breathing on him incorrectly?

Capitalism will result from that socialist experiment. Eventually their economy will come toppling down and Chavez will have no more support. Socialism will always lead to economic depression no matter what you do.

1. unlawful manner - coup de ta, assassination, etc.

2. Oh great Corprodamus, thank you for your clairvoyant message to us all. Take heed!

freedomboy

Hartydog wrote:

Exactly. For example see the USSR

All empires and governments fall eventually. As will our capitalist society in the United States. Alas, I believe it's beginning to crumble from the inside as we speak.

Just because it will crumble doesn't make it evil.

gue_barium

Hartydog wrote:

Exactly. For example see the USSR

Socialism is a word. Do you get scared when I say 'pit bull', too?

CorporateWhore

brokendave wrote:

1. unlawful manner - coup de ta, assassination, etc.

2. Oh great Corprodamus, thank you for your clairvoyant message to us all. Take heed!

Chavez's definition of "unlawful"

Any action or form of speech that opposes his regime. Anyone who speaks against him is a U.S. spy!!

Lol, you people are too much.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

Chavez's definition of "unlawful"

Any action or form of speech that opposes his regime. Anyone who speaks against him is a U.S. spy!!

Lol, you people are too much.

And you're too paranoid for your own good.

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

And you're too paranoid for your own good.

I'm definitely not paranoid about Hugo Chavez. If he ever attacked us, I know we could rip him a new asshole.

He's very paranoid about us though.

jlew24asu

brokendave from chicago? WTF?? good thing CaterinaA is around. she owned your ass.

Chavez for dictator! OLAAAA OYLAAA OLLLAAAA OLLLLLA!!!!

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

I'm definitely not paranoid about Hugo Chavez. If he ever attacked us, I know we could rip him a new asshole.

He's very paranoid about us though.

Then why the demonization? He hasn't attacked anyone.

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

Then why the demonization? He hasn't attacked anyone.

No one except his own people. He's taken their basic liberties away. I'd call that an attack.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

No one except his own people. He's taken their basic liberties away. I'd call that an attack.

Examples please.
What I see from you is that you're taking the media feed that America welcomes from his opposition there. The opposition to Chavez in Venezuela is incredibley wealthy and own most of the media outlets. Their demonization of him is no more or less the same as yours. And they are free demonize at will.

Orestes

Why is this thread still relevant?

All I've been reading is some bickering between three people about how many venezuelan's they know and their definition of a dictatorship.

CaterinaA had some pretty meaningful things to say but it seems like it just went over your heads.

Brokendave, have you ever spent $20+ to buy a Che Guevara shirt? Just asking...

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

Examples please.
What I see from you is that you're taking the media feed that America welcomes from his opposition there. The opposition to Chavez in Venezuela is incredibley wealthy and own most of the media outlets. Their demonization of him is no more or less the same as yours. And they are free demonize at will.

Uh, get your head out of the sand. Have you read any of the posts in this thread?

Caterina lived in Venezuela.

CaterinaA wrote:

"Just when I thought that I was out they pull me back in" . First and foremost, I am Chilean (before somebody pulls the Bush/Republican card), I grew up in Venezuela, and yes I'm very shocked 'cause well it is as unbiased as Powell's statements at the UN General Assembly .



Hmmm, right. I'm guessing you've never heard of Maisanta List and the Tascon List. However, if you don't have the time, I'll brief you in: those lists contain the names of those who registered to vote in favor of the 2003 Referendum. Well, guess what, those persons have lost their jobs, their retirement pensions, health care benefits, can't leave the country and etc, etc. And people working for the government HAVE TO attend every single march, speech and act held by the government and they are obliged to wear the red t-shirt. And yes, if you don't go you can pretty much kiss your job godbye (this happened to a friend of mine)



Did you know that during the beginning of these events in April 2002, 13 people from the opposition that were peacefully marching towards the Palacio de Miraflores (Venezuela's White House) were killed by Chavez' hitmen and that all TV networks were blocked and they couldn't broadcast the shootings?? Still today nobody has been prosecuted for those deaths, regardless of petitions by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and numerous local human rights organizations



The nerve of the middle class!! How dare they pretend that a President has to rule for all its citizens, even those in the opposition . Seriously, the Referendum petition, which is included in Venezuela's Constitution allows for this procedure, and I'm sorry but this is just simple statistics: when you collect over 3 million signatures it can't just be middle and upper class, sorry, Venezuela's poverty rates make it impossible.



So all these weapons he's been buying lately are a clear effort in this direction. Maybe he'll use the Mirage he'll buy from Sarkozy to throw flowers and peace messages throughout the world.



Did you know that Venezuela's social programs for the poor from Venezuela are facing severe shortcomings these days? In the supermarket Chavez government implemented for the poor which are called MERCAL you can't even find milk these days. You know, instead of funding the poor from the US he sould provide better care for the poor of his country and keep his promises about a massive housing program, 'cause last time I check promoting squatting does not constitute a housing program.



Did you know that this is not true simply because electricity never got to be privatized?? The only private electricy company was Electricidad de Caracas (provided to Venezuela's main city) and it was never public. About the phone, well yeah it's becoming public again, which is great!! I'm guessing you never had to get a phone line in Venezuela during the 80's. In an optimistic scenario you could spend 2 years waiting for a CANTV technician to come by to your house to install a phone line. In those years (man, we spent like 5 years without a phone line) selling a property with a phone line could increase its value like 10%. But what it is really important is that the State controls CANTV, nevermind the quality of the service, right? And banking? I'm sorry, but Venezuela's states always had banking. There's always been both types of banks: public banks and private banks. What's really great and a definite "improvement" is that the upcoming Chavez constitutional reform will remove the Central Bank autonomy, fantastic!! Now he'll print money whenever he feels like it!

Did you know that in concern of the extreme circumstances of the upper 9th ward of New Orleans, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered aid to the victims of Hurricane Katrina?

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_chavez#Presidency_.281999.E2.80.93present.29

[/quote]

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

Uh, get your head out of the sand. Have you read any of the posts in this thread?

Caterina lived in Venezuela.

[/quote]

I know for a fact this is a lie:

Did you know that during the beginning of these events in April 2002, 13 people from the opposition that were peacefully marching towards the Palacio de Miraflores (Venezuela's White House) were killed by Chavez' hitmen and that all TV networks were blocked and they couldn't broadcast the shootings?? Still today nobody has been prosecuted for those deaths, regardless of petitions by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and numerous local human rights organizations

Caterina is towing the opposition line, and she and I have gone over it before.

Orestes

gue_barium wrote:

I know for a fact this is a lie:

Did you know that during the beginning of these events in April 2002, 13 people from the opposition that were peacefully marching towards the Palacio de Miraflores (Venezuela's White House) were killed by Chavez' hitmen and that all TV networks were blocked and they couldn't broadcast the shootings?? Still today nobody has been prosecuted for those deaths, regardless of petitions by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and numerous local human rights organizations

Caterina is towing the opposition line, and she and I have gone over it before.[/quote]

you KNOW for a FACT that it is a lie... ok....

but what about the TRUCKLOAD of other arguments that she presented!!!!

Or does the dispute of one fact make all of her argument crumble? Very scientific of you

gue_barium

In fact, the whole of that post from Caterina is absolute opposition rhetoric.
Politics as usual. Melodrama.

In other words. Dishonest.

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

In fact, the whole of that post from Caterina is absolute opposition rhetoric.
Politics as usual. Melodrama.

In other words. Dishonest.

lol! There's no need to argue with you because you've clearly been brainwashed. This is insanity, not argument. Even amnesty international has come out against him. They're as liberal as it gets. You and brokendave are simply brainwashed lunatics - not rational debaters. You have absolutely no evidence in the face of Caterina's claims and yet you say she has no evidence.

The simple fact is: I'm not arguing with a credible, sane individual here. Socialism brings about this incredible poverty of mind that is clearly seen even on this board. When you deny people their basic freedom of speech and assembly, you can control them so deeply that they will refuse to believe facts that are before their very eyes. Brainwashed.

In fact, if I didn't know better, I would say you're being satirically brainwashed.

---

What do you think about Kim Jong-Il?? He's a good guy right??

Haha, here's some "factual" biographical information on him from his website! You want to support him too?

http://www.korea-dpr.com/articles-ng/biography-kimjongil.htm

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

lol! There's no need to argue with you because you've clearly been brainwashed. This is insanity, not argument. Even amnesty international has come out against him. They're as liberal as it gets. You and brokendave are simply brainwashed lunatics - not rational debaters. You have absolutely no evidence in the face of Caterina's claims and yet you say she has no evidence.

The simple fact is: I'm not arguing with a credible, sane individual here. Socialism brings about this incredible poverty of mind that is clearly seen even on this board. When you deny people their basic freedom of speech and assembly, you can control them so deeply that they will refuse to believe facts that are before their very eyes. Brainwashed.

---

What do you think about Kim Jong-Il?? He's a good guy right??

Haha, here's some "factual" biographical information on him from his website! You want to support him too?

http://www.korea-dpr.com/articles-ng/biography-kimjongil.htm

Good god, you get yourself hung up on a word. I don't understand that. I won't call you insane, as you have me, because I know better.

What I can say is that you are among a large population of folks that hate for the sake of hating, and it really gets tiresome.

I don't hate Dubya, but I bet you think I do.

Look at it this way: the "communism" of the USSR, back in the day, sought to distribute currency in a different way. A new way. It was neither Communist, or Socialist or Capitalist in the way that you choose to believe those words to mean. It was just different. There are a billion different ways to distribute currency.

Now you tell me. Who decides that?