why do you believe in God or...

hippiemom

deadnothingbetter wrote:

whether you call it, "it takes away my enjoyment to live" or call it "fear"... it's the same thing.

I think your problem in this thread is that you're playing pretty fast and loose with the language. Most people have a pretty clear and definite meaning of the word "fear," whereas you seem to be willing to let it mean many things. Taking away enjoyment is not the same as fear.

Being stuck in this bedroom, if someone took away my laptop and my satellite radio, that would take away much of my enjoyment of life, but it wouldn't scare me.

Anon

hippiemom wrote:

When I got cancer I wasn't really afraid of dying, and some of my treatments have made me wish I'd die real soon. My main motivator to stay alive at this point is my kids ... my wish to see them, and knowing how upset they will be when I'm gone.

sending big hugs to you hipiemom. stay strong beautiful lady.

catefrances

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i would think getting your head chopped off is much worse than alzheimers or even paralysis..... but whatever. no... of course not.

i'd rather have my head chopped off than suffer from alzheimer's.

hippiemom

catefrances wrote:

i'd rather have my head chopped off than suffer from alzheimer's.

I agree 100%.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

you run away from a guy who's going to kill you because the feelings you get when you're in a survival mode makes you run away... whether you call it, "it takes away my enjoyment to live" or call it "fear"... it's the same thing.

i don't think it is and you haven't given me a single logical reason for why it is. but suit yourself.

baraka

hippiemom wrote:

Nice post, baraka, very honest.

I guess I should clear up what I mean by "fear of death." When I was violently attacked, I was very much afraid at first, but I was more afraid of what he might do to me and how much it would hurt than I was of dying. As it went on I got more and more scared, including being afraid of never seeing my friends and family again. Eventually I reached a point where I was thinking "Oh please just let me die now, I can't take this anymore." When I went unconscious, I thought I was dying and I was glad. So there was a fear of dying there for a little while, but that was overcome by a fear of living when life got bad enough.

When I got cancer I wasn't really afraid of dying, and some of my treatments have made me wish I'd die real soon. My main motivator to stay alive at this point is my kids ... my wish to see them, and knowing how upset they will be when I'm gone. If I didn't have kids, I probably would have done myself in by now. I can't really do anything other than lie in bed and feel like shit, there's not much of a point to this life.

Your post was very moving, hippiemom. It pretty much summed up the meaning of fear for me as it pertains to death. And I'm not so sure it is 'fear' exactly. Perhaps someone else has a better term for it. But, for me, it is the loss of loved ones whether it is me going or the loved one going. Death is unpleasant, not the actually event itself, but all the emotions that revolve around it, imo. Your last sentence really struck a nerve with me. My dad hit that point, a sudden cardiac event that left him quite miserable, sad, and depressed his quality of life taken was poor. It was hard to see him that way, yet it also to hurt when he passed, although I know he is at peace and no longer suffering. Perhaps the sorrow is selfish. It's how I feel when I think about you, your diminished quality of life, but at the same time, wanting and expecting you to always be around. Fear is not broad enough to explain it and maybe there is some underlying fear of the unknown, but it is really all the negative emotions such as loss, and sadness that surround it.

Well, this has turned into a bummer of a thread...............;)

hippiemom

baraka wrote:

Your post was very moving, hippiemom. It pretty much summed up the meaning of fear for me as it pertains to death. And I'm not so sure it is 'fear' exactly. Perhaps someone else has a better term for it. But, for me, it is the loss of loved ones whether it is me going or the loved one going. Death is unpleasant, not the actually event itself, but all the emotions that revolve around it, imo. Your last sentence really struck a nerve with me. My dad hit that point, a sudden cardiac event that left him quite miserable, sad, and depressed his quality of life taken was poor. It was hard to see him that way, yet it also to hurt when he passed, although I know he is at peace and no longer suffering. Perhaps the sorrow is selfish. It's how I feel when I think about you, your diminished quality of life, but at the same time, wanting and expecting you to always be around. Fear is not broad enough to explain it and maybe there is some underlying fear of the unknown, but it is really all the negative emotions such as loss, and sadness that surround it.

Well, this has turned into a bummer of a thread...............;)

I know that, for me, what gets me crying when someone dies, is the thought of the children who've lost their daddy, the wife who has lost her husband, all the other people in his life, and of course sorrow for myself because I will miss him. I very rarely feel sorrow for the deceased person him/herself.

I don't think that fear has anything to do with any of this either.

cornnifer

hippiemom wrote:

Nice post, baraka, very honest.

I guess I should clear up what I mean by "fear of death." When I was violently attacked, I was very much afraid at first, but I was more afraid of what he might do to me and how much it would hurt than I was of dying. As it went on I got more and more scared, including being afraid of never seeing my friends and family again. Eventually I reached a point where I was thinking "Oh please just let me die now, I can't take this anymore." When I went unconscious, I thought I was dying and I was glad. So there was a fear of dying there for a little while, but that was overcome by a fear of living when life got bad enough.

When I got cancer I wasn't really afraid of dying, and some of my treatments have made me wish I'd die real soon. My main motivator to stay alive at this point is my kids ... my wish to see them, and knowing how upset they will be when I'm gone. If I didn't have kids, I probably would have done myself in by now. I can't really do anything other than lie in bed and feel like shit, there's not much of a point to this life.

Nicely put. When i was 18 i used to talk a lot of shit about not being afraid to die and about how much life sucked and i would actually prefer it. Aproximately 9 years later when my first son was about eighteen months old and a doctor told me "we'll run some tests, but this is classic cancer" i was scared shitless. I remember bawling to my father about "all i want to do is be with my wife and watch my son grow". I was terrified of what i would miss out on with him. i wouldn't be there for him when he needed me. i would, probably, eventually be replaced and i hated that thought as well. (After a few weeks of crying, surgery and no fewer than four pathologists, my doctor was amazed that what i had was benign afterall, so i will in no way compare my situation with yours). i think it is somewhat fair to say that many who claim to have no fear of dying have never been faced with it. It sounds to me like you have come full circle and i am amazed by your attitude. It is inspiring to say the least.

brainofPJ

catefrances wrote:

i'd rather have my head chopped off than suffer from alzheimer's.

but you wouldn't know what's going on or the effect it was having on people.

hippiemom

cornnifer wrote:

Nicely put. When i was 18 i used to talk a lot of shit about not being afraid to die and about how much life sucked and i would actually prefer it. Aproximately 9 years later when my first son was about eighteen months old and a doctor told me "we'll run some tests, but this is classic cancer" i was scared shitless. I remember bawling to my father about "all i want to do is be with my wife and watch my son grow". I was terrified of what i would miss out on with him. i wouldn't be there for him when he needed me. i would, probably, eventually be replaced and i hated that thought as well. (After a few weeks of crying, surgery and no fewer than four pathologists, my doctor was amazed that what i had was benign afterall, so i will in no way compare my situation with yours). i think it is somewhat fair to say that many who claim to have no fear of dying have never been faced with it. It sounds to me like you have come full circle and i am amazed by your attitude. It is inspiring to say the least.

Kids change everything, that's for sure. If my kids had been small, my response probably would have been closer to yours. It probably also helped that this was not the first time I had good reason to think my goose was cooked ... seriously, you do get better with practice.

I have many, many sad moments, about not seeing people again, about never getting to be a grandma (which is something I've always looked forward to). But it's all sadness, never fear. As I said, I feel so lousy most days that I probably would have taken matters into my own hands by now if it weren't for my kids.

catefrances

brainofPJ wrote:

but you wouldn't know what's going on or the effect it was having on people.

ive watched this past year as my childrens' grandmother has lived with alzheimers. she does not who they are, she loses her temper with them and despite all the times her son and i have explained to our children what is happening with their nanna, it hurts them to have her react to them the way she does. this is a woman whom i have always enjoyed intelligent and very discursive conversations with. she thinks people are trying to hide stuff from her and that they are lying to her. this past year she has mistaken me for her eldest granddaughter, she has mistaken my grand daughter as her own and can not be left alone for any length of time. she gets very frustrated and she forgets what she is doing in the middle of doing it. has no concept of time or whether she has eaten.
my own paternal great aunt was also diagnosed with alzheimers. after my grandmother died(her sister), she had to be moved to a nursing home because there was no one capable of caring for her. despite being told many times her sister had died, she still asks for her. she expresses a desire to return to her own home.
alzheimers is a horrible insidious disease. so with the fabulous benefit of having been able to observe its effects, and knowing how it affects the people around the sufferer, i can categorical state the desire to lose my head rather than go through what these two women have had to endure.

soulsinging

cornnifer wrote:

Nicely put. When i was 18 i used to talk a lot of shit about not being afraid to die and about how much life sucked and i would actually prefer it. Aproximately 9 years later when my first son was about eighteen months old and a doctor told me "we'll run some tests, but this is classic cancer" i was scared shitless. I remember bawling to my father about "all i want to do is be with my wife and watch my son grow". I was terrified of what i would miss out on with him. i wouldn't be there for him when he needed me. i would, probably, eventually be replaced and i hated that thought as well. (After a few weeks of crying, surgery and no fewer than four pathologists, my doctor was amazed that what i had was benign afterall, so i will in no way compare my situation with yours). i think it is somewhat fair to say that many who claim to have no fear of dying have never been faced with it. It sounds to me like you have come full circle and i am amazed by your attitude. It is inspiring to say the least.

1) i believe she said she wasn't afraid of dying. she was afraid of leaving her children alone. i see a difference there.

2) i have. not from anything as dramatic as cancer, but i have nonetheless.

brainofPJ

catefrances wrote:

ive watched this past year as my childrens' grandmother has lived with alzheimers. she does not who they are, she loses her temper with them and despite all the times her son and i have explained to our children what is happening with their nanna, it hurts them to have her react to them the way she does. this is a woman whom i have always enjoyed intelligent and very discursive conversations with. she thinks people are trying to hide stuff from her and that they are lying to her. this past year she has mistaken me for her eldest granddaughter, she has mistaken my grand daughter as her own and can not be left alone for any length of time. she gets very frustrated and she forgets what she is doing in the middle of doing it. has no concept of time or whether she has eaten.
my own paternal great aunt was also diagnosed with alzheimers. after my grandmother died(her sister), she had to be moved to a nursing home because there was no one capable of caring for her. despite being told many times her sister had died, she still asks for her. she expresses a desire to return to her own home.
alzheimers is a horrible insidious disease. so with the fabulous benefit of having been able to observe its effects, and knowing how it affects the people around the sufferer, i can categorical state the desire to lose my head rather than go through what these two women have had to endure.

i saw it first hand also. i was asked to move in with my grandparents to help take care of my grandma. never been the same since

cornnifer

soulsinging wrote:

1) i believe she said she wasn't afraid of dying. she was afraid of leaving her children alone. i see a difference there.

2) i have. not from anything as dramatic as cancer, but i have nonetheless.

In no way was i being confrontational. Dude, you'll fucking argue with anything.

PJammin'

catefrances wrote:

...why don't you, if that is the case.


i am an atheist. i don't believe in a God cause it makes absolutely no sense to me. this has been the case since i was 11 years old. religion does not give me the answers i require.

there is a BIG difference between God and religion.

i believe in God because...

1. to talk in simple terms. the creation is evidence enough. we as humans create things, and as beautiful as they are, they can't match the creation of the world.

2. there is no dispute that Jesus Christ walked the earth. He was with God from the beginning and He came in the form of a man to the earth. He relayed the message of God by his words and His works. words and works that were documented in the Bible. by His works His fame spread throughout the world.

3. most importantly, a relationship with Him has revealed this to me.

you'll never find Him if you don't seek and understand.

gue_barium

PJammin' wrote:

there is a BIG difference between God and religion.

i believe in God because...

1. to talk in simple terms. the creation is evidence enough. we as humans create things, and as beautiful as they are, they can't match the creation of the world.

2. there is no dispute that Jesus Christ walked the earth. He was with God from the beginning and He came in the form of a man to the earth. He relayed the message of God by his words and His works. words and works that were documented in the Bible. by His works His fame spread throughout the world.

3. most importantly, a relationship with Him has revealed this to me.

you'll never find Him if you don't seek and understand.

I've never revealed Jesus to you. I don't even know you.

soulsinging

cornnifer wrote:

In no way was i being confrontational. Dude, you'll fucking argue with anything.

but you again imply that everyone is afraid to die. and it isn't true and it isn't what she said either.

soulsinging

PJammin' wrote:

2. there is no dispute that Jesus Christ walked the earth.

true fact.

PJammin' wrote:

He was with God from the beginning and He came in the form of a man to the earth. He relayed the message of God by his words and His works. words and works that were documented in the Bible. by His works His fame spread throughout the world.

questionable opinion.

PJammin' wrote:

there is a BIG difference between God and religion.

i believe in God because...

1. to talk in simple terms. the creation is evidence enough. we as humans create things, and as beautiful as they are, they can't match the creation of the world.

3. most importantly, a relationship with Him has revealed this to me.

you'll never find Him if you don't seek and understand.

fair enough. just so you know though, there IS a difference between god and religion and belief in a divine jesus puts you squarely in the second camp. religion is any means by which humans claim to be able to explain the unexplainable and draw moral codes from it. god is bigger than religion. religion is a narrowing of god's power by explaining that god has only one course of action and it comes with set rules and acceptable forms of belief and worship.

brainofPJ

PJammin' wrote:

there is a BIG difference between God and religion.

i believe in God because...

1. to talk in simple terms. the creation is evidence enough. we as humans create things, and as beautiful as they are, they can't match the creation of the world.

2. there is no dispute that Jesus Christ walked the earth. He was with God from the beginning and He came in the form of a man to the earth. He relayed the message of God by his words and His works. words and works that were documented in the Bible. by His works His fame spread throughout the world.

3. most importantly, a relationship with Him has revealed this to me.

you'll never find Him if you don't seek and understand.

it's nice to see someone able to distinguish God and Jesus. so many people feel they are the same.

Ahnimus

brainofPJ wrote:

it's nice to see someone able to distinguish God and Jesus. so many people feel they are the same.

What's the difference between God and Santa Claus?

Besides the name.

1. He knows when you are sleeping
2. He knows when you're awake
3. He knows when you've been bad or good

Sounds like Omniscience to me.

4. He hits every house in the world in one night

Omnipresence

5. In order to be omniscient and omnipresent one would have to be every atom in the universe, thus also omnipotent.