why do you believe in God or...

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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    what fable?

    r u going to start this argument with me too?? do you also lack survival instincts?

    your every argument goes back to survival instincts as some sort of trump card. yet you are completely incapable of saying how having survival instincts is incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying. the one time i cornered you on it, the only explanation you gave was "it just is."
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    it just is.
    so then we don't have a survival instinct?

    again, what difference does it make? sue, we have an instinct to survive. how does that have anything to do with fearing death? and you're not allowed to use the answer "it just is." that's invalid in a legal, scientific, philosophical, shit even theologists wouldn't accept it as a valid reason.
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well, some people are suicidal. i know that. but get a normal person... ok... here's this example. if you had to choose between..... i don't know...... getting a finger chopped off... or getting your head chopped off which one would you choose?

    pearl jam and nirvana is a very mediocre way of looking at it.

    pearl jam and nirvana is the same, just to a different degree. the underlying logic is the same. that a preference for one option does not ipso facto indicate a revulsion at the other. i'd rather have my finger chopped off becos that doesn't impede my enjoyment of life much. but if you want to take it further... i'd choose death over paralysis or alzheimer's. if we have this overwhelming survival instinct that involves an unavoidable fear of death, as you suggest, nobody could ever make that choice.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    see... i can understand this. this is very different.

    i guess there's a thin line between an emotional fear and an instinctive fear. i don't have an emotional fear.... yea, i'll get sad if i'm about to die but only cause i wouldn't like to see my relatives suffer. i wouldn't get creeped out at dying. but my instinctive fear of dying is what keeps me safe and away from harm.

    no it isn't. you say everyone is afraid of death, period. no escaping it. now you make up all these exceptions. one ducks when bullets fire becos of an instinctive fear of pain or hurt, not an instinctive fear of death. i flinch anytime a ball is thrown at me without my knowledge... not becos i think it will kill me, becos im afraid it will hurt.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    no it isn't. you say everyone is afraid of death, period. no escaping it. now you make up all these exceptions. one ducks when bullets fire becos of an instinctive fear of pain or hurt, not an instinctive fear of death. i flinch anytime a ball is thrown at me without my knowledge... not becos i think it will kill me, becos im afraid it will hurt.
    well, i'm pretty sure that getting shot in the head is probably painless. you wouldn't even have a second to feel the pain.

    you keep making it sound like i'm referring to our fear in death as in something that we dread. i'm not saying that. i don't dread death, and i trust you don't either. i've been saying that all along. so what is it that you're arguing here????
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    your every argument goes back to survival instincts as some sort of trump card. yet you are completely incapable of saying how having survival instincts is incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying. the one time i cornered you on it, the only explanation you gave was "it just is."
    first, you never cornered... if you did i wouldn't even know at which point. second, survival instinct was my primary argument and i used fear as a natural form for the lack of a better term.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    well, i'm pretty sure that getting shot in the head is probably painless. you wouldn't even have a second to feel the pain.

    you keep making it sound like i'm referring to our fear in death as in something that we dread. i'm not saying that. i don't dread death, and i trust you don't either. i've been saying that all along. so what is it that you're arguing here????

    lots of people survive gunshots to the head. anytime i've hit my head on something, it hurt. id rather not test it with bullets.

    what i'm arguing is the same as always... survival instincts do not imply universal fear of death. i'll ask again:

    "how do survival instincts provide incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying. your answer cannot be "it just is."
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    first, you never cornered... if you did i wouldn't even know at which point. second, survival instinct was my primary argument and i used fear as a natural form for the lack of a better term.

    how do survival instincts provide incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying? your answer cannot be "it just is."
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    again, what difference does it make? sue, we have an instinct to survive. how does that have anything to do with fearing death? and you're not allowed to use the answer "it just is." that's invalid in a legal, scientific, philosophical, shit even theologists wouldn't accept it as a valid reason.
    for the billionths kazillionth amksadf;oiwhepoid;flknsd; fgaidyhgpaejif;owk time not fear as in giving you the creeps, but fear, for the lack of a better term, a natural instinct we have to survive. we don't run from a lion because we're scared that it's gonna hurt... sure it's part of it... but the bigger part is cause we don't wanna die. we don't eat go to the hospital because we like it... we go to stay healthy and make sure we have any kind of illness which could lead to death. it's a natural fear that we have that keeps us alive.
    pearl jam and nirvana is the same, just to a different degree.
    yeah, a mediocre degree.
    the underlying logic is the same. that a preference for one option does not ipso facto indicate a revulsion at the other. i'd rather have my finger chopped off becos that doesn't impede my enjoyment of life much.
    doesn't impede my enjoyschmency.... stop beating around the bush dude.
    but if you want to take it further... i'd choose death over paralysis or alzheimer's.
    i would think getting your head chopped off is much worse than alzheimers or even paralysis..... but whatever.
    if we have this overwhelming survival instinct that involves an unavoidable fear of death, as you suggest, nobody could ever make that choice.
    no... of course not.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Being shot in the head probably is painless.

    The brain doesn't have sensory nerves to sense pain, the head does, but a person would probably be in shock.

    One time I blacked out, I don't remember anything for the next two weeks and very little from the next few years, from head trauma.

    Fear relies on the brain, particularly the amygdala, norepinephrine and cortisol. Damage to these areas can cause a lack of fear. Williams Syndrome, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, Asperger's and a bunch of other conditions can include a lack of fear of different things.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    doesn't impede my enjoyschmency.... stop beating around the bush dude.

    i would think getting your head chopped off is much worse than alzheimers or even paralysis..... but whatever.

    not even close. i'll go to the guillotine over those two any day. without a second thought.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    how do survival instincts provide incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying? your answer cannot be "it just is."
    what do you want me to call it then? worry? fret? what is it that keeps us from getting killed? if it's not fear, then what is it? what would you call it? i call it fear. again... not fear as in dreading, getting freaked out like it's some kind of ghost... but fear in a different sense of the word. that's where you fail in your argument. you call it, does not impede enjoyment of life... i call it fear, or survival instinct.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    for the billionths kazillionth amksadf;oiwhepoid;flknsd; fgaidyhgpaejif;owk time not fear as in giving you the creeps, but fear, for the lack of a better term, a natural instinct we have to survive.

    how do survival instincts provide incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying? your answer cannot be "it just is."
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    not even close. i'll go to the guillotine over those two any day. without a second thought.
    ok
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    how do survival instincts provide incontrovertible proof that everyone fears dying? your answer cannot be "it just is."
    what do you want me to call it then? worry? fret? what is it that keeps us from getting killed? if it's not fear, then what is it? what would you call it? i call it fear. again... not fear as in dreading, getting freaked out like it's some kind of ghost... but fear in a different sense of the word. that's where you fail in your argument. you call it, does not impede enjoyment of life... i call it fear, or survival instinct.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    what do you want me to call it then? worry? fret? what is it that keeps us from getting killed? if it's not fear, then what is it? what would you call it? i call it fear. again... not fear as in dreading, getting freaked out like it's some kind of ghost... but fear in a different sense of the word. that's where you fail in your argument. you call it, does not impede enjoyment of life... i call it fear, or survival instinct.

    i call it a desire for life. our survival instinct indicates we desire to live. it does not indicate that this desire to live is only fueled by our fear of dying. for some, a fear of death might drive the desire to live, for others, it might be something totally different. fear of death is a possible source of our powerful desire to live. it is not the only or inevitable source of that desire.
  • katew
    katew Posts: 15
    i belive in god cous like wen iam in deep shit, or got truble or somthings on my mind hes someone to talk to and hes there for me . yeh it may sound weird but its true ya just got to belive thats all ..its cool
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    It all stems from the fear of castration. Just ask Freud.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    i call it a desire for life. our survival instinct indicates we desire to live. it does not indicate that this desire to live is only fueled by our fear of dying. for some, a fear of death might drive the desire to live, for others, it might be something totally different. fear of death is a possible source of our powerful desire to live. it is not the only or inevitable source of that desire.
    i agree. i'm not using fear as a dreadful emotion, although to some it might be the case. this is not so with you and i'm not taking that away from you.

    except when you make it sound like getting your head chopped, getting shot, falling off a bridge, are all a piece of cake... it sounds kinda rubbish. nobody wants to get shot, fall off a bridge or get their heads chopped off (well, maybe only those who are suicidal). naturally we avoid these things. and it's all i was saying. you run away from a guy who's going to kill you because the feelings you get when you're in a survival mode makes you run away... whether you call it, "it takes away my enjoyment to live" or call it "fear"... it's the same thing.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • pjtaper
    pjtaper Posts: 3,020
    I don't know what I believe in.. but if there is a god, he/she is fucked up for letting such wonderful people suffer for as long as they have to...
    God may exist, but I'm not worshipping!
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    pjtaper wrote:
    I don't know what I believe in.. but if there is a god, he/she is fucked up for letting such wonderful people suffer for as long as they have to...
    God may exist, but I'm not worshipping!
    you sound like a deist.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.

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