we live different lives in different areas. where i live; we protect eachother and care for eachother. when i found out i had internal bleeding; close to 2000 people donated blood; brought food to me; and come to check on me as well as drive me to doctors appts and the like. i haven't driven since they put me on morphine sept 12th. people even come to feed my animals to help me. maybe he was that close with his neighbours.
although; based on the 911 tape; the opperator never told him that law doesn't apply to neighbours or only applies to burglers in HIS OWN HOME. it does say however that he cited the law to the opperator to assure he was within the law to shoot.
Apples and Oranges my friend. I have former neighbors that I would gladly do what your friends and neighbors did/do for you. But caring for someone in need and blowing away two petty criminals are a bit different, don't you think?
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
Apples and Oranges my friend. I have former neighbors that I would gladly do what your friends and neighbors did/do for you. But caring for someone in need and blowing away two petty criminals are a bit different, don't you think?
so in short; you're taught to enable the criminals. this reminds me of a story where a woman was raped in an alley and nobody acted to help her although many people heard her screams. we now have laws that you are legally required to provide aid. i believe it's called the GOOD SAMARITAN LAW. i'll have to look it up but i can't do it today.
cheers
no. in short we're taught that no DVD is worth the price of a life. it's only stuff. the crime of rape is not comparable. that woman being raped is in danger for her life.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
no. in short we're taught that no DVD is worth the price of a life. it's only stuff. the crime of rape is not comparable. that woman being raped is in danger for her life.
and how was he to know that the "thieves" didn't kill his neighbours in their house?
and how was he to know that the "thieves" didn't kill his neighbours in their house?
Yeah or they might have been Al Queda members moving a dirty bomb so you cannot really take a chance on them getting away. On second thought, just say you THOUGHT they were Al Queda and the constitution and laws wont apply to you anyway !!
excuse me? he lived with me. a friend from school called him and asked for a ride. he couldn't drive from my place to his friend; rob a house; then call and say he's been arrested all within 30 minutes. the other guy agreed to testify against my friend for a shorter sentence. he paid for that with his life though.
how? you gun him down in the street out of vengeance?
we live different lives in different areas. where i live; we protect eachother and care for eachother. when i found out i had internal bleeding; close to 2000 people donated blood; brought food to me; and come to check on me as well as drive me to doctors appts and the like. i haven't driven since they put me on morphine sept 12th. people even come to feed my animals to help me. maybe he was that close with his neighbours.
although; based on the 911 tape; the opperator never told him that law doesn't apply to neighbours or only applies to burglers in HIS OWN HOME. it does say however that he cited the law to the opperator to assure he was within the law to shoot.
so in short; you're taught to enable the criminals. this reminds me of a story where a woman was raped in an alley and nobody acted to help her although many people heard her screams. we now have laws that you are legally required to provide aid. i believe it's called the GOOD SAMARITAN LAW. i'll have to look it up but i can't do it today.
cheers
i've yet to hear of a good samaritan law mandating that you kill someone for burglary. his neighbor wasn't being raped in front of him. they're not in the same ballpark. they're not even the same game.
this reminds me of something that happened like 25-26 years ago when i was still living in my parents house. I had locked myself out of the house. my parents were out of the state and no one else around had a spare key.
I went over to my friend's house a few blocks away and asked her bf if he would come over and climb into one of the basement windows so that he could unlock the back door and let me in. the only basement widow that turned out to be unlocked was one of the ones in the front of the house. he went through the window, through the house and let me in. once we were in the house I gave him a bag of his gf's clothes that she had left at my house to take with him.
when the neighbors across the street saw him climb through the window they presumed that he was breaking into the house and called the cops. he leaves by the front door, and he got to the bottom of the steps with the bag in his hand when the cops pulled up. I hear this commotion outside "DROP THE BAG, PUT YOUR HANDS UP!" I go running out there and both he and I are asking the cops what the hell is going on?!? they told us that someone had called in to say that they saw someone breaking in through a window. we explain the sitution, showed them our ID's (me to prove that i lived there) so the cops leave realizing that it was about nothing more than silly me locking myself out.
so now my point is; what if my neighbors had decided that this person that they thought was breaking into and burglarizing our house had taken it upon themselves to shoot and kill my friend before the cops got there? they not only would've shot an innocent person but one that was actually doing a good deed for a friend.
now granted in this case these people probably were actually breaking in and stealing from the shooter's neighbor's house. however, there's no way for the neighbor to know that for certain. and he doesn't have the right to take it upon himself to decide that 1) they are in fact commiting a crime. 2) they should die for doing it. I could see if he himself was in danger but that wasn't the case here....making him completely in the wrong to kill these people.
and oh yeah, I did buy my friend a fifth of J.D. for the all the hassle he went through
This is EXACTLY the kind of scenario that brings this circumstance as to one where caution must be used. To make that decision to use deadly force when your life is not in danger and to make the decision to shoot to kill opens up one to being judge, jury and executioner in this case.
To me something is totally wrong with this shooting. If detaining them doesn't work and your life is not in danger and they take off. Well follow them IF your that gun ho over your neighbors things and get a license plate.
Did the thieves even get a chance to run or were they gunned down before having a chance to "freeze"?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Actually a vigilante death sentence for simple theft makes cutting someone's hand off look pretty mild. I think it would be bad in the long run to adopt a practice worse than what is practiced in Sharia law (and make it accepted public practice at that).
I think it would be highly hypocritical (and catastrophic) of the west to adopt that policy, then turn around and try to eradicate Muslims that are in fact more tolerant to the same crime, all the while pretending they are more inhumane.
I'm not sure that would fly very well.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
so in short; you're taught to enable the criminals. this reminds me of a story where a woman was raped in an alley and nobody acted to help her although many people heard her screams. we now have laws that you are legally required to provide aid. i believe it's called the GOOD SAMARITAN LAW. i'll have to look it up but i can't do it today.
cheers
wow... good samaritan laws are to protect people who help others in aid, not require them to provide aid.
This thread is funny, and just shows that most of your arguments have no basis... as soon as someone counters a point that you've made, you go into another random story about something worse that happend you know or a story that you've heard...
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
no, you don't give up your rights. otherwise we would not have trials. we would not have appeals. we would not have due process, the 5th amendment, juries, etc. if you gave up your rights, you're back to the days of lynch mobs and hanging unpopular folks from trees becos you think they're doing something wrong and enough of your fellows agree.
IN MY OPINION! And I'm not completely against the rest either... I often say that the only good thing about the north was the punishment beatings (not the stupid ones for say catholics and protestants going out... but ya know knee capping drug dealers or giving little fuckers terrorising the neighbourhoods a good beating to show them there's one law they're NOT above). I'm sorry but I'm one of those who believe in my own justice... but again: IN MY OPINION.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
And since when is stuff worth human lives? Would it be okay if a store owner shot a teenage kid because he stole a candy bar? No? What if he stole two? Or a dvd player?
In general your average teenage shoplifter would be scared enough to never do it again after simply being caught... being chased out of the shop or even threatening to call the cops would certainly finish their thieving career. Your average house burglar is a little harder to scare into going straight. And like I said, there may be a background to this story.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i've yet to hear of a good samaritan law mandating that you kill someone for burglary. his neighbor wasn't being raped in front of him. they're not in the same ballpark. they're not even the same game.
someone who blatently thinks they're entitled to everything belonging to other people... well ya really don't know what they're capable of... they're obviously beyond giving a shit about others for a start... and like onelongsong said... if I saw some burglars coming out of my neighbours house... would it be completely unreasonable to think their lives COULD be in danger?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
someone who blatently thinks they're entitled to everything belonging to other people... well ya really don't know what they're capable of... they're obviously beyond giving a shit about others for a start... and like onelongsong said... if I saw some burglars coming out of my neighbours house... would it be completely unreasonable to think their lives COULD be in danger?
i thought about this overnight helen and i think the burglers decided that this STUFF they stole was worth risking their lives. pickle head misquoted me because the good samaritan law says you must give aid to someone in trouble.
when i see stories like this: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4981656&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
i feel it's a citizens duty to help. i'm trying to find another story i heard on the tele yesterday where a man knocked on a door; and forced his way in. he killed the elderly man and robbed the house; but there was a 10 year old girl in the house that locked herself in a closet or something which saved her life. i'll post it if i find it. it happened in phoenix.
that's why i take my stance. the police will tell you that their job is clean-up. they are rarely present when a crime is committed. if we all ignore crime; we only enable the criminals and fortify the message that crime is ok.
wow... good samaritan laws are to protect people who help others in aid, not require them to provide aid.
This thread is funny, and just shows that most of your arguments have no basis... as soon as someone counters a point that you've made, you go into another random story about something worse that happend you know or a story that you've heard...
i thought about this overnight helen and i think the burglers decided that this STUFF they stole was worth risking their lives. pickle head misquoted me because the good samaritan law says you must give aid to someone in trouble.
when i see stories like this: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4981656&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
i feel it's a citizens duty to help. i'm trying to find another story i heard on the tele yesterday where a man knocked on a door; and forced his way in. he killed the elderly man and robbed the house; but there was a 10 year old girl in the house that locked herself in a closet or something which saved her life. i'll post it if i find it. it happened in phoenix.
that's why i take my stance. the police will tell you that their job is clean-up. they are rarely present when a crime is committed. if we all ignore crime; we only enable the criminals and fortify the message that crime is ok.
I agree with you totally. Criminality is getting completely out of control and people say 'oh that's terrible' and 'it's getting out of control' but once people start putting the power back in their OWN hands... that's when the debate starts? I just don't get it... it actually makes perfect sense to me to protect your stuff!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
IN MY OPINION! And I'm not completely against the rest either... I often say that the only good thing about the north was the punishment beatings (not the stupid ones for say catholics and protestants going out... but ya know knee capping drug dealers or giving little fuckers terrorising the neighbourhoods a good beating to show them there's one law they're NOT above). I'm sorry but I'm one of those who believe in my own justice... but again: IN MY OPINION.
move to iran. they're good about that. they'll even lash you for getting raped. but, ya know, you gotta give up a few rights to be safe i guess.
someone who blatently thinks they're entitled to everything belonging to other people... well ya really don't know what they're capable of... they're obviously beyond giving a shit about others for a start... and like onelongsong said... if I saw some burglars coming out of my neighbours house... would it be completely unreasonable to think their lives COULD be in danger?
tht gives you the right to shoot them in cold blood? that you THINK they COULD be in danger?
you obviously have never even been inside a law school. it's called burden shifting. you make an utterly ridiculous and untenable contention, people rebut it by exposing how unreasonable and unworkable it is, then the onus is on you to provide logical or evidentiary support for your contention (i'm sorry, you probly don't know what onus means, it means burden), which it would then be up to the opposition to refute again or accept the contention.
you are utterly incapable of doing this. you're like a 7th grader. you make a wild accusation, then someone calls you on it, and you ignore it, change the subject and talk about something different. the fact that you've got one friend whose life was ruined by a false accusation of burglary is not evidence that it is ok to gun someone down for robbing a house next door. not legally or morally.
good samaritan laws require that if someone is capable of assisting someone whose life is in danger without risk to themselves, then they must give aid. a doctor cannot walk by a man choking and ignore him. a lifeguard can't keep tanning while someone is drowning. but a guy walking out of a someone's house with some trinkets does not mean the neighbor has to come outside and shoot him to death on the front lawn.
I agree with you totally. Criminality is getting completely out of control and people say 'oh that's terrible' and 'it's getting out of control' but once people start putting the power back in their OWN hands... that's when the debate starts? I just don't get it... it actually makes perfect sense to me to protect your stuff!
it wasn't HIS stuff. it was his neighbor's. what about shooting the guy in the leg so he couldn't get away?
but at least that was better than the few years in jail your friend got, right? cos your friend's live was OVER right?
you don't mess with us. it sent the message loud and clear. all the principles in this are dead so i can talk about it. my friend lost his wife and child over this. she moved on and kept his daughter from him. it did destroy his life. he was never the same.
I agree with you totally. Criminality is getting completely out of control and people say 'oh that's terrible' and 'it's getting out of control' but once people start putting the power back in their OWN hands... that's when the debate starts? I just don't get it... it actually makes perfect sense to me to protect your stuff!
I think there are other ways, more reasonable ways to protect your stuff, like an alarm system and a vault for your most valuable possessions.
you don't mess with us. it sent the message loud and clear. all the principles in this are dead so i can talk about it. my friend lost his wife and child over this. she moved on and kept his daughter from him. it did destroy his life. he was never the same.
don't mess with us? so you DID have a hand in murdering the guy? now you're michael corleone too eh? was the message from the onelongsong family that mr informer sleeps with the fishes?
it wasn't HIS stuff. it was his neighbor's. what about shooting the guy in the leg so he couldn't get away?
we're taught to disable someone you shoot their pelvis. the leg is too small of a target. when you're not shooting center mass to kill; the pelvis is the second choice.
Comments
Apples and Oranges my friend. I have former neighbors that I would gladly do what your friends and neighbors did/do for you. But caring for someone in need and blowing away two petty criminals are a bit different, don't you think?
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
not in my world.
remind me to stay in mine then.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
no. in short we're taught that no DVD is worth the price of a life. it's only stuff. the crime of rape is not comparable. that woman being raped is in danger for her life.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and how was he to know that the "thieves" didn't kill his neighbours in their house?
got to run. be back tomorrow.
dont be bringing fanciful variables into the argument when you know it wasnt the case.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Yeah or they might have been Al Queda members moving a dirty bomb so you cannot really take a chance on them getting away. On second thought, just say you THOUGHT they were Al Queda and the constitution and laws wont apply to you anyway !!
how? you gun him down in the street out of vengeance?
morphine? well that explains a few things.
i've yet to hear of a good samaritan law mandating that you kill someone for burglary. his neighbor wasn't being raped in front of him. they're not in the same ballpark. they're not even the same game.
he didnt. how do i know you didnt "run" to go murder my family right now? i better kill you without asking or finding out just to be safe, yeah?
This is EXACTLY the kind of scenario that brings this circumstance as to one where caution must be used. To make that decision to use deadly force when your life is not in danger and to make the decision to shoot to kill opens up one to being judge, jury and executioner in this case.
To me something is totally wrong with this shooting. If detaining them doesn't work and your life is not in danger and they take off. Well follow them IF your that gun ho over your neighbors things and get a license plate.
Did the thieves even get a chance to run or were they gunned down before having a chance to "freeze"?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I think it would be highly hypocritical (and catastrophic) of the west to adopt that policy, then turn around and try to eradicate Muslims that are in fact more tolerant to the same crime, all the while pretending they are more inhumane.
I'm not sure that would fly very well.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
wow... good samaritan laws are to protect people who help others in aid, not require them to provide aid.
This thread is funny, and just shows that most of your arguments have no basis... as soon as someone counters a point that you've made, you go into another random story about something worse that happend you know or a story that you've heard...
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i thought about this overnight helen and i think the burglers decided that this STUFF they stole was worth risking their lives. pickle head misquoted me because the good samaritan law says you must give aid to someone in trouble.
when i see stories like this:
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4981656&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1
i feel it's a citizens duty to help. i'm trying to find another story i heard on the tele yesterday where a man knocked on a door; and forced his way in. he killed the elderly man and robbed the house; but there was a 10 year old girl in the house that locked herself in a closet or something which saved her life. i'll post it if i find it. it happened in phoenix.
that's why i take my stance. the police will tell you that their job is clean-up. they are rarely present when a crime is committed. if we all ignore crime; we only enable the criminals and fortify the message that crime is ok.
he was using herion on the weekends and the dealer was paid to give him pure herion. he injected it; rolled his eyes back; and died.
and that's how a debate works.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
move to iran. they're good about that. they'll even lash you for getting raped. but, ya know, you gotta give up a few rights to be safe i guess.
tht gives you the right to shoot them in cold blood? that you THINK they COULD be in danger?
but at least that was better than the few years in jail your friend got, right? cos your friend's live was OVER right?
you obviously have never even been inside a law school. it's called burden shifting. you make an utterly ridiculous and untenable contention, people rebut it by exposing how unreasonable and unworkable it is, then the onus is on you to provide logical or evidentiary support for your contention (i'm sorry, you probly don't know what onus means, it means burden), which it would then be up to the opposition to refute again or accept the contention.
you are utterly incapable of doing this. you're like a 7th grader. you make a wild accusation, then someone calls you on it, and you ignore it, change the subject and talk about something different. the fact that you've got one friend whose life was ruined by a false accusation of burglary is not evidence that it is ok to gun someone down for robbing a house next door. not legally or morally.
good samaritan laws require that if someone is capable of assisting someone whose life is in danger without risk to themselves, then they must give aid. a doctor cannot walk by a man choking and ignore him. a lifeguard can't keep tanning while someone is drowning. but a guy walking out of a someone's house with some trinkets does not mean the neighbor has to come outside and shoot him to death on the front lawn.
it wasn't HIS stuff. it was his neighbor's. what about shooting the guy in the leg so he couldn't get away?
you don't mess with us. it sent the message loud and clear. all the principles in this are dead so i can talk about it. my friend lost his wife and child over this. she moved on and kept his daughter from him. it did destroy his life. he was never the same.
I think there are other ways, more reasonable ways to protect your stuff, like an alarm system and a vault for your most valuable possessions.
naděje umírá poslední
don't mess with us? so you DID have a hand in murdering the guy? now you're michael corleone too eh? was the message from the onelongsong family that mr informer sleeps with the fishes?
man, you're such a tough guy.
we're taught to disable someone you shoot their pelvis. the leg is too small of a target. when you're not shooting center mass to kill; the pelvis is the second choice.