proof that god exists..

sponger

lol. That reminds of something Slick Willy and Bush Sr. said right after the tsunami. They said, "We are both men of faith." And Slick Willy said, "We think there was a higher purpose for what happened. There used to be two warring tribes in that region. Now they are helping each other."

So, I guess that means the planet is perfect in that it shifts and kills thousands of people so that warring tribes could find peace.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

no dunkman. the earth is perfect. or as perfect as she needs to be. she regenerates and reforms. continues to build and destroy as she is meant to. she brings forth life and that in time that life ceases to exist, to be replaced by something else, maybe. it is not the Earth's fault that Man chooses to live outside nature and not take her into account when he chooses to 'civilise' or 'tame' his surroundings. you can not blame nature for Man's stupidity.

i didnt blame nature ... i blamed god

Ahnimus

Everything is exactly as I would expect from something infinite like the Universe.

Every planet or cellestial body is in some way unique.

dunkman

Ahnimus wrote:

Everything is exactly as I would expect from something infinite like the Universe.

Every planet or cellestial body is in some way unique.

how do you know something is unique if the universe is infinite? we could have some exact replication somewhere else billions of galaxies away... its feasible... you dont know that its unique if we are dealing in infinites

sponger

I was listening to art bell a while back when a caller started giving reasons that prove god's existence. One of those reasons was the total eclipse.

In order for a total eclipse to happen, the moon has to be a certain size, shape, and distance from the earth. So, it just so happens that the moon fits those dimensions exactly. And so the caller said that it's a sign from god. I thought that was kind of a crazy coincidence that we just happen to have a moon that fits those criteria.

And then there was this other night on art bell when the topic was near death experiences. This caller called in and talked about nearly drowning in the ocean once. He said that he actually had a conversation with god.

According to him, god doesn't actually speak, but rather just telepathically communicates. And so god told him that it wasn't his time, and that he's going back down to earth. So the guy then asked god if there was anything he could do to serve him when he's down on earth. And that's when god asked him, "What do you want to do? You are all my children. Do what your heart tells you."

And that's what I would expect a real god to say. I wouldn't expect a real god to send down some commandments or a message telling everyone to live in fear of his wrath.

I think a truly omnipotent being would just sit back and let things work themselves out. God didn't tell that guy to do whatever as long as he doesn't kill anybody, have sex out of wed-lock, and so on and so forth. Instead he was like dude just have some fun while you're still alive. That is, after all, why you are on planet earth.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

So, basically, nature purposely left it up to us to make the right decisions.

exactly. and we fuck up a lot. but we also get it right. but we could do better.

if you were a believer you'd call it free will.

catefrances

dunkman1974 wrote:

i didnt blame nature ... i blamed god

i know you did. i answered as an atheist. i can not blame God as i do not belive he exists. i therefore put the 'blame' for Nature where it should be; with Nature. The Earth is not a static body. She shifts and reshapes and in doing so makes new land mass and takes some away. She does not need Mankind for her to do her thing. but we need her in order to do ours and to continue to exist. therefore you would think seeings how we are not as indispensable as we think we are, that we would treat our mother with a lot more respect than we do.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

i know you did. i answered as an atheist. i can not blame God as i do not belive he exists. i therefore put the 'blame' for Nature where it should be; with Nature. The Earth is not a static body. She shifts and reshapes and in doing so makes new land mass and takes some away. She does not need Mankind for her to do her thing. but we need her in order to do ours and to continue to exist. therefore you would think seeings how we are not as indispensable as we think we are, that we would treat our mother with a lot more respect than we do.

I'm an atheist as well... i dont believe in god and so my silly questioning of his creations are my way of saying he cant exist!!!

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

our human nature is not the same as Nature.

That's like saying that sea water is not the same as water.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

That's like saying that sea water is not the same as water.

as i put Mankind outside Nature i don't think so. i am of the opinion that a lot that Mankind does he justifies by explaining it as human nature. or dismisses a behaviour by labelling it abhorrant when it is clearly human nature.

dunkman1974 wrote:

I'm an atheist as well... i dont believe in god and so my silly questioning of his creations are my way of saying he cant exist!!!

gotcha

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

as i put Mankind outside Nature i don't think so.

Interesting. Try stabbing yourself in the hand with a sharp instrument sometime and see what happens.

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

Interesting. Try stabbing yourself in the hand with a sharp instrument sometime and see what happens.

i know what happens. it fucking hurts. and you bleed.

what does doing that have to do with anything?

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

i know what happens. it fucking hurts. and you bleed.

what does doing that have to do with anything?

Nature, my friend! Nature! Can't live with it, can't live without it! :rolleyes:

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

Nature, my friend! Nature! Can't live with it, can't live without it! :rolleyes:

my hand hurting and bleeding from being stabbed is not Nature.

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

my hand hurting and bleeding from being stabbed is not Nature.

Really? What is it then?

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

Really? What is it then?

i would say it was more nature. small 'n'. if you stab something made of flesh and bone and blood, it is within it's nature to bleed if the skin or veins are broken.
when i say Nature, big 'N', i do not include Mankind, as i believe, as stated before, that Mankind lives outside Nature. He lives in his built environment apart from Nature.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

i would say it was more nature. small 'n'. if you stab something made of flesh and bone and blood, it is within it's nature to bleed if the skin or veins are broken.
when i say Nature, big 'N', i do not include Mankind, as i believe, as stated before, that Mankind lives outside Nature. He lives in his built environment apart from Nature.

so what is Nature?

catefrances

dunkman1974 wrote:

so what is Nature?

in my opinion, Nature is everything around us that is living or once was living that retains a natural state. The order of things that Mankind has not touched. By this i mean that which Mankind did not have hand in creating. Nature is what creates and regulates the world within its own order. Also those forces which shape the natural world such as earthquakes, volcanic explosions, erosion. The known universe is also part of Nature, though to us an extra terrestrial one.

dunkman

catefrances wrote:

in my opinion, Nature is everything around us that is living or once was living that retains a natural state. The order of things that Mankind has not touched. By this i mean that which Mankind did not have hand in creating. Nature is what creates and regulates the world within its own order. Also those forces which shape the natural world such as earthquakes, volcanic explosions, erosion. The known universe is also part of Nature, though to us an extra terrestrial one.

but why, in your opinion, dont we come under Nature then, especially if we meet the criteria in your first sentence.. "...that is living.."??

catefrances

dunkman1974 wrote:

but why, in your opinion, dont we come under Nature then, especially if we meet the criteria in your first sentence.. "...that is living.."??

because we live in a built environment and in doing so, put ourselves outside Nature. we do everything we can to 'tame' Nature instead of living within it. and yes i know we do so because we can. but that does not change my opinion.