Yea, but look at ID and the other "logical" arguements. People will believe any kind of twisted logic, especially if they aren't very smart. The whole Beanie Baby craze is a good example of human stupidity. On the other hand, I've never read any C.S. Lewis.
im not defending christianity. im not christian. im just saying there is a lot more to cs lewis than children's books. he was a highly respected scholar and should not be laughed off like those posters did (who im guessing dont know jack shit about lewis outside of the movie).
all i was saying is he makes a good case for it, if you're interested in hearing the other side's logic.
When i say we put ourselves outside Nature i mean we do everything in our power to 'tame' Nature and choose to thwart her rather than work with her. we do this in total disregard to everything that is around us. everything within Nature follows an order and Man just screws with it. Why? simply because he can. because his supposed higher intellect allows it.
Right, but this higher intellect is a result of nature's doing. Our disregard for nature is product of nature's doing. Therefore, we are a mistake of nature.
im not defending christianity. im not christian. im just saying there is a lot more to cs lewis than children's books. he was a highly respected scholar and should not be laughed off like those posters did (who im guessing dont know jack shit about lewis outside of the movie).
all i was saying is he makes a good case for it, if you're interested in hearing the other side's logic.
That's cool, like I said I've never read any C.S. Lewis. I've never even seen the movies based on his writings. Tolkien is a bit different, I've seen all of the LOTR movies and I actually read The Hobbit. It's like the only book I've ever read that was fictional.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It kind of confuses me a little bit when people say "read such and such for the answers" without saying anything else. Is it that hard to just briefly go over some of the highlights?
It kind of confuses me a little bit when people say "read such and such for the answers" without saying anything else. Is it that hard to just briefly go over some of the highlights?
im not defending christianity. im not christian. im just saying there is a lot more to cs lewis than children's books. he was a highly respected scholar and should not be laughed off like those posters did (who im guessing dont know jack shit about lewis outside of the movie).
all i was saying is he makes a good case for it, if you're interested in hearing the other side's logic.
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Right, but this higher intellect is a result of nature's doing. Our disregard for nature is product of nature's doing. Therefore, we are a mistake of nature.
Nature gave us the tools. we misuse them. that is OUR mistake, not Nature's. and it doesn't make us Nature's mistake.
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I think the earth is amazingly constructed. I'm sorry you feel otherwise.
you think its amazingly constructed as you are but a mere mortal... so for us to look at the earths design makes our tiny minds boggle... it is indeed an amazing thing, but if i were omnipotent and truly the ultimate powerful deity, then i would like to think i would have made my creation so sturdy that the plates wouldnt move around and kill thousands of people throughout the years... you know, take a bit of time over it!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
lol. That reminds of something Slick Willy and Bush Sr. said right after the tsunami. They said, "We are both men of faith." And Slick Willy said, "We think there was a higher purpose for what happened. There used to be two warring tribes in that region. Now they are helping each other."
So, I guess that means the planet is perfect in that it shifts and kills thousands of people so that warring tribes could find peace.
no dunkman. the earth is perfect. or as perfect as she needs to be. she regenerates and reforms. continues to build and destroy as she is meant to. she brings forth life and that in time that life ceases to exist, to be replaced by something else, maybe. it is not the Earth's fault that Man chooses to live outside nature and not take her into account when he chooses to 'civilise' or 'tame' his surroundings. you can not blame nature for Man's stupidity.
i didnt blame nature ... i blamed god
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Everything is exactly as I would expect from something infinite like the Universe.
Every planet or cellestial body is in some way unique.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Everything is exactly as I would expect from something infinite like the Universe.
Every planet or cellestial body is in some way unique.
how do you know something is unique if the universe is infinite? we could have some exact replication somewhere else billions of galaxies away... its feasible... you dont know that its unique if we are dealing in infinites
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I was listening to art bell a while back when a caller started giving reasons that prove god's existence. One of those reasons was the total eclipse.
In order for a total eclipse to happen, the moon has to be a certain size, shape, and distance from the earth. So, it just so happens that the moon fits those dimensions exactly. And so the caller said that it's a sign from god. I thought that was kind of a crazy coincidence that we just happen to have a moon that fits those criteria.
And then there was this other night on art bell when the topic was near death experiences. This caller called in and talked about nearly drowning in the ocean once. He said that he actually had a conversation with god.
According to him, god doesn't actually speak, but rather just telepathically communicates. And so god told him that it wasn't his time, and that he's going back down to earth. So the guy then asked god if there was anything he could do to serve him when he's down on earth. And that's when god asked him, "What do you want to do? You are all my children. Do what your heart tells you."
And that's what I would expect a real god to say. I wouldn't expect a real god to send down some commandments or a message telling everyone to live in fear of his wrath.
I think a truly omnipotent being would just sit back and let things work themselves out. God didn't tell that guy to do whatever as long as he doesn't kill anybody, have sex out of wed-lock, and so on and so forth. Instead he was like dude just have some fun while you're still alive. That is, after all, why you are on planet earth.
i know you did. i answered as an atheist. i can not blame God as i do not belive he exists. i therefore put the 'blame' for Nature where it should be; with Nature. The Earth is not a static body. She shifts and reshapes and in doing so makes new land mass and takes some away. She does not need Mankind for her to do her thing. but we need her in order to do ours and to continue to exist. therefore you would think seeings how we are not as indispensable as we think we are, that we would treat our mother with a lot more respect than we do.
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i know you did. i answered as an atheist. i can not blame God as i do not belive he exists. i therefore put the 'blame' for Nature where it should be; with Nature. The Earth is not a static body. She shifts and reshapes and in doing so makes new land mass and takes some away. She does not need Mankind for her to do her thing. but we need her in order to do ours and to continue to exist. therefore you would think seeings how we are not as indispensable as we think we are, that we would treat our mother with a lot more respect than we do.
I'm an atheist as well... i dont believe in god and so my silly questioning of his creations are my way of saying he cant exist!!!
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
That's like saying that sea water is not the same as water.
as i put Mankind outside Nature i don't think so. i am of the opinion that a lot that Mankind does he justifies by explaining it as human nature. or dismisses a behaviour by labelling it abhorrant when it is clearly human nature.
i would say it was more nature. small 'n'. if you stab something made of flesh and bone and blood, it is within it's nature to bleed if the skin or veins are broken.
when i say Nature, big 'N', i do not include Mankind, as i believe, as stated before, that Mankind lives outside Nature. He lives in his built environment apart from Nature.
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i would say it was more nature. small 'n'. if you stab something made of flesh and bone and blood, it is within it's nature to bleed if the skin or veins are broken.
when i say Nature, big 'N', i do not include Mankind, as i believe, as stated before, that Mankind lives outside Nature. He lives in his built environment apart from Nature.
so what is Nature?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
in my opinion, Nature is everything around us that is living or once was living that retains a natural state. The order of things that Mankind has not touched. By this i mean that which Mankind did not have hand in creating. Nature is what creates and regulates the world within its own order. Also those forces which shape the natural world such as earthquakes, volcanic explosions, erosion. The known universe is also part of Nature, though to us an extra terrestrial one.
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in my opinion, Nature is everything around us that is living or once was living that retains a natural state. The order of things that Mankind has not touched. By this i mean that which Mankind did not have hand in creating. Nature is what creates and regulates the world within its own order. Also those forces which shape the natural world such as earthquakes, volcanic explosions, erosion. The known universe is also part of Nature, though to us an extra terrestrial one.
but why, in your opinion, dont we come under Nature then, especially if we meet the criteria in your first sentence.. "...that is living.."??
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
but why, in your opinion, dont we come under Nature then, especially if we meet the criteria in your first sentence.. "...that is living.."??
because we live in a built environment and in doing so, put ourselves outside Nature. we do everything we can to 'tame' Nature instead of living within it. and yes i know we do so because we can. but that does not change my opinion.
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Comments
im not defending christianity. im not christian. im just saying there is a lot more to cs lewis than children's books. he was a highly respected scholar and should not be laughed off like those posters did (who im guessing dont know jack shit about lewis outside of the movie).
all i was saying is he makes a good case for it, if you're interested in hearing the other side's logic.
Right, but this higher intellect is a result of nature's doing. Our disregard for nature is product of nature's doing. Therefore, we are a mistake of nature.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
That's cool, like I said I've never read any C.S. Lewis. I've never even seen the movies based on his writings. Tolkien is a bit different, I've seen all of the LOTR movies and I actually read The Hobbit. It's like the only book I've ever read that was fictional.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0032.html
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You mean the responsibility of a six year old who gets raped?
What the fuck did he/she do to bring the wrath of God upon his/her self?
Nature gave us the tools. we misuse them. that is OUR mistake, not Nature's. and it doesn't make us Nature's mistake.
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So, basically, nature purposely left it up to us to make the right decisions.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
you think its amazingly constructed as you are but a mere mortal... so for us to look at the earths design makes our tiny minds boggle... it is indeed an amazing thing, but if i were omnipotent and truly the ultimate powerful deity, then i would like to think i would have made my creation so sturdy that the plates wouldnt move around and kill thousands of people throughout the years... you know, take a bit of time over it!
So, I guess that means the planet is perfect in that it shifts and kills thousands of people so that warring tribes could find peace.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
i didnt blame nature ... i blamed god
Every planet or cellestial body is in some way unique.
how do you know something is unique if the universe is infinite? we could have some exact replication somewhere else billions of galaxies away... its feasible... you dont know that its unique if we are dealing in infinites
In order for a total eclipse to happen, the moon has to be a certain size, shape, and distance from the earth. So, it just so happens that the moon fits those dimensions exactly. And so the caller said that it's a sign from god. I thought that was kind of a crazy coincidence that we just happen to have a moon that fits those criteria.
And then there was this other night on art bell when the topic was near death experiences. This caller called in and talked about nearly drowning in the ocean once. He said that he actually had a conversation with god.
According to him, god doesn't actually speak, but rather just telepathically communicates. And so god told him that it wasn't his time, and that he's going back down to earth. So the guy then asked god if there was anything he could do to serve him when he's down on earth. And that's when god asked him, "What do you want to do? You are all my children. Do what your heart tells you."
And that's what I would expect a real god to say. I wouldn't expect a real god to send down some commandments or a message telling everyone to live in fear of his wrath.
I think a truly omnipotent being would just sit back and let things work themselves out. God didn't tell that guy to do whatever as long as he doesn't kill anybody, have sex out of wed-lock, and so on and so forth. Instead he was like dude just have some fun while you're still alive. That is, after all, why you are on planet earth.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
exactly. and we fuck up a lot. but we also get it right. but we could do better.
if you were a believer you'd call it free will.
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i know you did. i answered as an atheist. i can not blame God as i do not belive he exists. i therefore put the 'blame' for Nature where it should be; with Nature. The Earth is not a static body. She shifts and reshapes and in doing so makes new land mass and takes some away. She does not need Mankind for her to do her thing. but we need her in order to do ours and to continue to exist. therefore you would think seeings how we are not as indispensable as we think we are, that we would treat our mother with a lot more respect than we do.
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I'm an atheist as well... i dont believe in god and so my silly questioning of his creations are my way of saying he cant exist!!!
That's like saying that sea water is not the same as water.
as i put Mankind outside Nature i don't think so. i am of the opinion that a lot that Mankind does he justifies by explaining it as human nature. or dismisses a behaviour by labelling it abhorrant when it is clearly human nature.
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Interesting. Try stabbing yourself in the hand with a sharp instrument sometime and see what happens.
i know what happens. it fucking hurts. and you bleed.
what does doing that have to do with anything?
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Nature, my friend! Nature! Can't live with it, can't live without it! :rolleyes:
my hand hurting and bleeding from being stabbed is not Nature.
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Really? What is it then?
i would say it was more nature. small 'n'. if you stab something made of flesh and bone and blood, it is within it's nature to bleed if the skin or veins are broken.
when i say Nature, big 'N', i do not include Mankind, as i believe, as stated before, that Mankind lives outside Nature. He lives in his built environment apart from Nature.
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so what is Nature?
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but why, in your opinion, dont we come under Nature then, especially if we meet the criteria in your first sentence.. "...that is living.."??
because we live in a built environment and in doing so, put ourselves outside Nature. we do everything we can to 'tame' Nature instead of living within it. and yes i know we do so because we can. but that does not change my opinion.
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