So for an out of the blue question that has nothing to do with the kids sanity who goes and shoots up a school. How accessible are guns to teenagers down there? Are they licenced to own it? Are their parents at fault for having them in the house and not looked after properly? Are their parents even there to care? Did these kids get raised by nannies and t.v.?
I have no problem with guns in general. But widdle, itty, bitty, hand guns do a lot of damage. Everybody is a tough guy with a gun in their belt. And I think that is what the UK people are getting at. Some societies are going down the shitter faster than others. And judging by the posts in this thread. I think I could take a guess at who leads that charge.
it depends. If kids want to get guns by anymeans they just have to know the right people and be willing to pay the right price. I know in IL you have to have a FOID card to use a gun. But I'll be honest I'm not sure exactly of the rules in my state pertaining to guns. I don't own one so I haven't bothered looking into it. I think that if kids are hurt from guns the parents can be held responsible for negligence, if it was in fact negligent. It prob depends on the socioeconomic status of the people on supervision. I'm sure a dissertation could be written on the effect of parenting, supervision etc... and childhood and gun violence.
I agree with your last statement...if i have a gun, i sure will be a toughguy. I think matthew McConaughey said something to the effect of...what ever happened to being men and settling things in a fist fight then going in and having a beer together after you work out your differences. Now it's we'll fight and if I lose I'll go get my gun...it's a sad state of the world.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
So for an out of the blue question that has nothing to do with the kids sanity who goes and shoots up a school. How accessible are guns to teenagers down there? Are they licenced to own it? Are their parents at fault for having them in the house and not looked after properly? Are their parents even there to care? Did these kids get raised by nannies and t.v.?
I have no problem with guns in general. But widdle, itty, bitty, hand guns do a lot of damage. Everybody is a tough guy with a gun in their belt. And I think that is what the UK people are getting at. Some societies are going down the shitter faster than others. And judging by the posts in this thread. I think I could take a guess at who leads that charge.
Kids cannot legally buy or own guns. YES, their parents are absolutely at fault! It is not difficult to keep guns away from kids. It requires some thought and a bit of money, but if you can't afford a quality safe, you can't afford a gun.
I don't have any problem with guns in general either, but they are WAY too easy to get here. Some states have more restrictions, but here in Ohio any Ohio resident who is not a felon or a mental patient can be in and out of a store with a brand new handgun in about 10 minutes. Even the felons and mental patients need only buy from a private owner rather than a licensed dealer, and then there is no background check required.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Does anybody know if any lawsuits have gone down from parents who have had their children's lives cut short against the parents of the kids doing the killing? Anyone of the major shoot ups. It dosen't have to be the most recent.
Does anybody know if any lawsuits have gone down from parents who have had their children's lives cut short against the parents of the kids doing the killing? Anyone of the major shoot ups. It dosen't have to be the most recent.
I've been looking through many of the shootings (there have been more school shootings than terrorist attacks against the US); I haven't found anything yet.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity but they've always worked for me." Gonzo
'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude
this is another sad story about some young person having their life ended in an obviously horrible way, by an equally horrible man.
no one deserves to go that way, and i think all of this arguing about whether guns should be legal or not has taken away the point that the real problem in this case isnt about guns. Its about the welfare state! This man was obviously a danger to society, and people (generally speaking) do not turn in to a fucking maniac overnight. Why did he do this? does he have a family?did anyone know he had problems? Did he have anyone to turn to? Had he been diagnosed as having mental problems before? and if so, Why was he released?
They are the questions that should be asked here!!!
i'll add a bit to the gun debate though, as i'm in a rant mood ... I live in Ireland (but from the UK) .... guns are illegal here, but I know if I wanted one I could get one quite easily. The thing is, i dont. Why would I?
Guns do exist in ireland, and shootings in dublin happen quite regularly, but are 98% gang/drug/IRA related. i.e they are shooting their fellow scumbags. I dont condone this by the way.
There is no doubt in my mind that having the right to own a gun, and being able to keep this in your top drawer, does allow for incidents of this or a similar nature to happen more often than if they were illegal, especially with kids in the house, as there have been many documented cases.
But without ithe increase in spending on public health and welfare as well as education, banning guns would not have stopped this incident from occuring.
It's ashame there are so many gun fanatics. These same people let their other freedoms gradually erode in the name of terrorism without comment but it's a totally different story when it comes to gun rights.
Does anybody know if any lawsuits have gone down from parents who have had their children's lives cut short against the parents of the kids doing the killing? Anyone of the major shoot ups. It dosen't have to be the most recent.
Yes, there are numerous Federal civil cases against the parents of Dylan Klebold in Colorado. I would assume the same is true for harris as well. Here is a list of the cases listed in the Federal Court name index:
Name Court Case No. Filed NOS Closed
1 KLEBOLD, DYLAN codce 1:2000cv00160 01/25/2000 820 12/11/2002
2 KLEBOLD, FRANKLIN R. codce 1:2001cv01540 08/07/2001 350 01/28/2003
3 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv00160 01/25/2000 820 12/11/2002
4 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv00808 04/19/2000 440 08/20/2003
5 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01611 08/14/2000 440 05/07/2002
6 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01612 08/14/2000 440 03/25/2002
7 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01613 08/14/2000 440 05/15/2003
8 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01614 08/14/2000 440 08/19/2004
9 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01615 08/14/2000 440 10/25/2002
10 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv00160 01/25/2000 820 12/11/2002
11 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01611 08/14/2000 440 05/07/2002
12 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01612 08/14/2000 440 03/25/2002
13 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01613 08/14/2000 440 05/15/2003
14 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01614 08/14/2000 440 08/19/2004
15 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01615 08/14/2000 440 10/25/2002
16 KLEBOLD, THOMAS E. codce 1:2000cv00808 04/19/2000 440 08/20/2003
I'm not saying that outlawing guns will stop gun violence. But lets say I wanna go shoot up some people. In England, guns are banned. So where the fuck am I gonna get a gun from?
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
A nutjob without a gun = much more fucking safer than a nutjob with a gun! I seriously can't see how people can't see this.
Also, to the people who brought Iraq into this thread: shut the fuck up!
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
no one deserves to go that way, and i think all of this arguing about whether guns should be legal or not has taken away the point that the real problem in this case isnt about guns. Its about the welfare state! This man was obviously a danger to society, and people (generally speaking) do not turn in to a fucking maniac overnight. Why did he do this? does he have a family?did anyone know he had problems? Did he have anyone to turn to? Had he been diagnosed as having mental problems before? and if so, Why was he released?
They are the questions that should be asked here!!!
i'll add a bit to the gun debate though, as i'm in a rant mood ... I live in Ireland (but from the UK) .... guns are illegal here, but I know if I wanted one I could get one quite easily. The thing is, i dont. Why would I?
Guns do exist in ireland, and shootings in dublin happen quite regularly, but are 98% gang/drug/IRA related. i.e they are shooting their fellow scumbags. I dont condone this by the way.
There is no doubt in my mind that having the right to own a gun, and being able to keep this in your top drawer, does allow for incidents of this or a similar nature to happen more often than if they were illegal, especially with kids in the house, as there have been many documented cases.
But without ithe increase in spending on public health and welfare as well as education, banning guns would not have stopped this incident from occuring.
Im going now, as im starting to babble
A very insightful post. Thank you. Some people actually get it ...
I'm not saying that outlawing guns will stop gun violence. But lets say I wanna go shoot up some people. In England, guns are banned. So where the fuck am I gonna get a gun from?
i'm sure i could, just give me some time.... i didn't realize we had a statute of limitations on facts
Focusing on guns is easy for people. Its easier to blame objects than it is to blame human nature or social inequalities. The problem is, blaming objects won't solve the problem.
Focusing on guns is easy for people. Its easier to blame objects than it is to blame human nature or social inequalities. The problem is, blaming objects won't solve the problem.
banning objects will help solve the problem, though.
Yes there is, find me a place where no one has a gun and count the people killed by guns.
That wasn't the contention. The contention was banning of an object, not the mystical removal of all said objects from a location. Banning of guns doesn't accomplish the removal of guns.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
That wasn't the contention. The contention was banning of an object, not the mystical removal of all said objects from a location. Banning of guns doesn't accomplish the removal of guns.
No, but it would make it harder for people to get a gun though wouldn't it?
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
wow, 6 pages already and no one mentioned HOW THE HELL THIS GUY GOT INTO THE SCHOOL?
were there any security measures in place at this school?
was the gunman an employee of the school system or did he just walk into the building?
i'm not trying to be a smart ass, just wondering why this hasn't been mentioned
Isn't it ironic that in the wake of school shootings, instead of banning guns America decided to beef up security in their school to stop people bringing guns in, instead of just banning guns? What were the security guards meant to say, sorry son, you're allowed a gun just not in school?
For an Englishman who has never seen a gun, nor never wants to and considers them abhorrent, why do America still allow people guns?
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
Isn't it ironic that in the wake of school shootings, instead of banning guns America decided to beef up security in their school to stop people bringing guns in, instead of just banning guns? What were the security guards meant to say, sorry son, you're allowed a gun just not in school?
For an Englishman who has never seen a gun, nor never wants to and considers them abhorrent, why do America still allow people guns?
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
Comments
it depends. If kids want to get guns by anymeans they just have to know the right people and be willing to pay the right price. I know in IL you have to have a FOID card to use a gun. But I'll be honest I'm not sure exactly of the rules in my state pertaining to guns. I don't own one so I haven't bothered looking into it. I think that if kids are hurt from guns the parents can be held responsible for negligence, if it was in fact negligent. It prob depends on the socioeconomic status of the people on supervision. I'm sure a dissertation could be written on the effect of parenting, supervision etc... and childhood and gun violence.
I agree with your last statement...if i have a gun, i sure will be a toughguy. I think matthew McConaughey said something to the effect of...what ever happened to being men and settling things in a fist fight then going in and having a beer together after you work out your differences. Now it's we'll fight and if I lose I'll go get my gun...it's a sad state of the world.
I don't have any problem with guns in general either, but they are WAY too easy to get here. Some states have more restrictions, but here in Ohio any Ohio resident who is not a felon or a mental patient can be in and out of a store with a brand new handgun in about 10 minutes. Even the felons and mental patients need only buy from a private owner rather than a licensed dealer, and then there is no background check required.
I've been looking through many of the shootings (there have been more school shootings than terrorist attacks against the US); I haven't found anything yet.
'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude
Whisky Drinker, Non-Hunter from Denver.
no one deserves to go that way, and i think all of this arguing about whether guns should be legal or not has taken away the point that the real problem in this case isnt about guns. Its about the welfare state! This man was obviously a danger to society, and people (generally speaking) do not turn in to a fucking maniac overnight. Why did he do this? does he have a family?did anyone know he had problems? Did he have anyone to turn to? Had he been diagnosed as having mental problems before? and if so, Why was he released?
They are the questions that should be asked here!!!
i'll add a bit to the gun debate though, as i'm in a rant mood
Guns do exist in ireland, and shootings in dublin happen quite regularly, but are 98% gang/drug/IRA related. i.e they are shooting their fellow scumbags. I dont condone this by the way.
There is no doubt in my mind that having the right to own a gun, and being able to keep this in your top drawer, does allow for incidents of this or a similar nature to happen more often than if they were illegal, especially with kids in the house, as there have been many documented cases.
But without ithe increase in spending on public health and welfare as well as education, banning guns would not have stopped this incident from occuring.
Im going now, as im starting to babble
Name Court Case No. Filed NOS Closed
1 KLEBOLD, DYLAN codce 1:2000cv00160 01/25/2000 820 12/11/2002
2 KLEBOLD, FRANKLIN R. codce 1:2001cv01540 08/07/2001 350 01/28/2003
3 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv00160 01/25/2000 820 12/11/2002
4 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv00808 04/19/2000 440 08/20/2003
5 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01611 08/14/2000 440 05/07/2002
6 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01612 08/14/2000 440 03/25/2002
7 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01613 08/14/2000 440 05/15/2003
8 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01614 08/14/2000 440 08/19/2004
9 KLEBOLD, SUSAN codce 1:2000cv01615 08/14/2000 440 10/25/2002
10 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv00160 01/25/2000 820 12/11/2002
11 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01611 08/14/2000 440 05/07/2002
12 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01612 08/14/2000 440 03/25/2002
13 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01613 08/14/2000 440 05/15/2003
14 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01614 08/14/2000 440 08/19/2004
15 KLEBOLD, THOMAS codce 1:2000cv01615 08/14/2000 440 10/25/2002
16 KLEBOLD, THOMAS E. codce 1:2000cv00808 04/19/2000 440 08/20/2003
Lol could you find any older evidence?
I'm not saying that outlawing guns will stop gun violence. But lets say I wanna go shoot up some people. In England, guns are banned. So where the fuck am I gonna get a gun from?
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
Also, to the people who brought Iraq into this thread: shut the fuck up!
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
Dunk, give it a rest, man ... How many times do people have to explain it? You're a smart guy.
A very insightful post. Thank you. Some people actually get it ...
i'm sure i could, just give me some time.... i didn't realize we had a statute of limitations on facts
but since you want more timely ones...look at this http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/0,,178412,00.html obviously people are getting guns.
You'd call up your friend, peepingtom, of course!
Seriously, if people want a gun, they'll get a gun. If they want heroin, they'll get heroin. Laws mean nothing to people who don't obey them.
naděje umírá poslední
There is absolutely no evidence that supports that view.
Yes there is, find me a place where no one has a gun and count the people killed by guns.
naděje umírá poslední
That wasn't the contention. The contention was banning of an object, not the mystical removal of all said objects from a location. Banning of guns doesn't accomplish the removal of guns.
Ah, the old correlation = causation fallacy.
No, but it would make it harder for people to get a gun though wouldn't it?
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
And he used the word mystical for a reason ... Such a thing isn't even possible.
were there any security measures in place at this school?
was the gunman an employee of the school system or did he just walk into the building?
i'm not trying to be a smart ass, just wondering why this hasn't been mentioned
Its because no one can focus on anything else but guns around here. Tunnel vision to the max. I am done with this thread.
Good point, though.
naděje umírá poslední
Two eye rollies in one day! Hot damn!
I am on a roll.
Isn't it ironic that in the wake of school shootings, instead of banning guns America decided to beef up security in their school to stop people bringing guns in, instead of just banning guns? What were the security guards meant to say, sorry son, you're allowed a gun just not in school?
For an Englishman who has never seen a gun, nor never wants to and considers them abhorrent, why do America still allow people guns?
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
Do you even read what other people post?
All i hear is for self defence. Which is crazy.
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed