ANOTHER High School shooting

surferdude

dunkman1974 wrote:

you'll note that the dates go up to 1996... this was a crucial year for us.. a fuckhead with a gun went into a school in Scotland and shot 17 people in a school... since 1996 gun deaths have halved....

the total number of murders has stayed very level in those ten years, but we havent one instance in 10 years since 1996 where a kid has been shot by a handgun, in america its 14 per day or something ridiculous...

if junkies want to kill eavh other for drugs, money, cheese, whatevr... i couldnt give a fuck, but our gun controls have worked... the figures prove it!!! because the level of murders have stayed the same isnt in correlation!

I think the point being made is that banning handguns hasn't helped your homicide rate in any way. People are just reverting to other ways to kill each other. Handguns were never the problem.

NMyTree

dunkman1974 wrote:

ok we live in a gunless society and yet PER CAPITA our crime rates are lower than yours... we have less violent crime, muggings, rape, etc... PER CAPITA than your nation does... and yet you have all the guns and we dont???

kinda fucks up your point that revelation doesnt it!

Murder has risen, even though guns have been banned.

You ban guns, of course gun-related homicide will decrease. But it certainly hasn't disappeared coompletely, has it? Afterall, some of you want to work in absolutes.

Ultimately, your murder rates has risen and as usual human behavior has shown that people will kill each other, no matter what.

Civilized Society? Who's civilized?

It would be great and I completely advocate having a civilized society! let me know when human beings progress enough to have one.

josevolution

aNiMaL wrote:

Damn, when will this senseless violence stop in our schools???

we have to ban guns, way to many guns everywhere in this country USA...

dunkman

surferdude wrote:

I think the point being made is that banning handguns hasn't helped your homicide rate in any way. People are just reverting to other ways to kill each other. Handguns were never the problem.

but you see... i'm fine with that.. i'm fine with the fact that someone else has picked up a hammer and smashed someones head in...

i've said all along in threads like this, that my main concern is kids under 14 years of age are being systematically murdered by the misuse of handguns...

the murder rate as a result of the banning of handguns in scotland has halved.... murder rates dropped from a 1996 total of 134 to a low of 93 in 1998...

have you not noticed how low these fugures are yet either.. we have a pop. of 5.2 million and yet we only have 134 murders in one year.... thats 1 dead person for every 38805 alive people... the US has a pop. of 300million and has on average 15,000 murders per year.. thats 1 dead person for 20000 alive people

twice as likely to be murdered in america

Ahnimus

I've seen reports that in my city (London, Ontario) weapons caches have been found.

Basically it's some dudes' basements and in them they have weapons like AK47s, M249s, GE Miniguns, etc.. all of which are banned in Canada. The OPP has been fighting this losing battle for decades. You simply can't stop a criminal from getting a grenade or a rocket launcher.

I personally would like to own all of those things. Not to defend my family from intruders (I have a sword). But to defend my family from Governments. If my government ever turned on me I would fight back. Where I live was the main battle point of the U.S. invasion of 1812-1814 and when the U.S. tries another invasion of Canada, I want to be prepared. I know my government with the Canadian military will not be able to protect me. We may win the war, but the battle for London would be won by the U.S.

jeffbr

pushmepullme wrote:

The gun is a violent weapon, and being shot is a horribly violent way to die.

Is being shot a more violent way to go than being beaten to death or stabbed to death? I'd prefer none of the above, but if I had to choose, I know which I'd pick.

callen

dunkman1974 wrote:

Like, I was over in England. You ever been to England, anyone, been to England? No one has handguns in England, not even the cops. True or false? True. Now in England last year, they had fourteen deaths from handguns. FFFFFourteen. Now the United States, and I think you know how we feel about handguns - Woooo, I'm getting a warm tingly feeling just saying the fucking word, to be honest with you. I swear to you, I am hard.

Twenty-three thousand deaths from handguns.

Now let's go through those numbers again, because they're a little baffling at first glance. England, where no one has guns, fffffffourteen deaths. United States, and I think you know how we feel about guns - Woooo, I'm getting a stiffy - twenty-three thousand deaths from handguns. But there's no connection, and you'd be a fool and a Communist to make one. There's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone. There have been studies made and there is no connection at all there. Yes. That's absolute proof. You know, fourteen deaths from handguns. Probably American tourists, too.

(Angry tourist voice) You call this a sandwich? BANG! BANG! You don't boil pizza! BANG! BANG!

(Scared English voice) That's the way we eat here, that's the way we eat here! BANG!

(Tourist voice) This food sucks! BANG!"

see the people on this board that are pro gun....can't comprehend your comments here.....you would think there would be no question and no argument....comparing 14 deaths in England to 23,000 in the US..but they won't read this...won't acknowledge it......but hey..they likely voted for Bush...."Twice".....so logic just doesn't come into play.

Now on boiling pizza..and those 14 deaths attributed to US tourists....I fell out of my chair laughing....PLEASE TELL ME THE ENGLISH DON"T Boil PIZZA!!!!!

Ahnimus

dunkman1974 wrote:

but you see... i'm fine with that.. i'm fine with the fact that someone else has picked up a hammer and smashed someones head in...

i've said all along in threads like this, that my main concern is kids under 14 years of age are being systematically murdered by the misuse of handguns...

the murder rate as a result of the banning of handguns in scotland has halved.... murder rates dropped from a 1996 total of 134 to a low of 93 in 1998...

have you not noticed how low these fugures are yet either.. we have a pop. of 5.2 million and yet we only have 134 murders in one year.... thats 1 dead person for every 38805 alive people... the US has a pop. of 300million and has on average 15,000 murders per year.. thats 1 dead person for 20000 alive people

twice as likely to be murdered in america

I'd like to know where you are getting your information from. The information I cited before puts the annual figure around 12 deaths per year due to firearms.

callen

jeffbr wrote:

Is being shot a more violent way to go than being beaten to death or stabbed to death? I'd prefer none of the above, but if I had to choose, I know which I'd pick.

..thats even worse...

silly point you make.....its easier for a punk pull a trigger than stab or beat you...that would take courage..and punks don't have courage...hence deaths would go down big time if we pulled the guns out of your cold dead hands. (-:

callen

Ahnimus wrote:

I've seen reports that in my city (London, Ontario) weapons caches have been found.

Basically it's some dudes' basements and in them they have weapons like AK47s, M249s, GE Miniguns, etc.. all of which are banned in Canada. The OPP has been fighting this losing battle for decades. You simply can't stop a criminal from getting a grenade or a rocket launcher.

I personally would like to own all of those things. Not to defend my family from intruders (I have a sword). But to defend my family from Governments. If my government ever turned on me I would fight back. Where I live was the main battle point of the U.S. invasion of 1812-1814 and when the U.S. tries another invasion of Canada, I want to be prepared. I know my government with the Canadian military will not be able to protect me. We may win the war, but the battle for London would be won by the U.S.

Why are you sooo paranoid...do you really think someone is out to get you??? Guess you don't travel abroad....chill...you'll live longer.....okay that was a joke....

Ahnimus

Ahnimus wrote:

I'd like to know where you are getting your information from. The information I cited before puts the annual figure around 12 deaths per year due to firearms.

Here is a source that says 15,000

2000 FBI Crime Index figures: There were an estimated 15,517 murders in 2000, virtually no change from the 1999 murder estimate of 15,522. The number of murders was 21 percent less than in 1996 and 37.2 percent less than in 1991. more...
http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html

According to the CIA World Fact Book the United States is ranked 107 for most deaths per year, it doesn't specify the cause.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

dunkman

Ahnimus wrote:

I'd like to know where you are getting your information from. The information I cited before puts the annual figure around 12 deaths per year due to firearms.

12 due to firearms yes.... i was quoting the Scotland.gov figures of actual deaths... murders, homicides... even those deaths with a spatula for instance.. which means i need to change my figures.. thanks!!!

maths was never a strong point

dunkman

Ahnimus wrote:

Here is a source that says 15,000

2000 FBI Crime Index figures: There were an estimated 15,517 murders in 2000, virtually no change from the 1999 murder estimate of 15,522. The number of murders was 21 percent less than in 1996 and 37.2 percent less than in 1991. more...
http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html

According to the CIA World Fact Book the United States is ranked 107 for most deaths per year, it doesn't specify the cause.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

i got the 15000 from that very same source

although http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_States states that "Currently, 30,000 plus people in the USA are killed each year with guns and some multiple of this number are injured with guns. [WISQARS, Injury Mortality Reports, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control] Over half of all firearm fatalities are intentional suicides. [16] [17] Yet, as pointed out by gun rights advocates, "While 69 men per 100,000 die of gun shots in DC every year, the number of female fatalities is so small that it's not even listed in the latest Kaiser health statistics report. Obviously, something more than guns are involved in these deaths"

jeffbr

callen wrote:

..thats even worse...

silly point you make.....its easier for a punk pull a trigger than stab or beat you...that would take courage..and punks don't have courage...hence deaths would go down big time if we pulled the guns out of your cold dead hands. (-:

Swing and a miss. The point I was responding to was that being shot was a "horribly violent" way to die. I don't disagree that it is a violent way to die. But there are more horribly violent ways to go. I didn't dispute that punks who couldn't beat me to death could shoot me to death. I don't disagree your point. Seems pretty self-evident.

Ahnimus

Ahnimus wrote:

Here is a source that says 15,000

2000 FBI Crime Index figures: There were an estimated 15,517 murders in 2000, virtually no change from the 1999 murder estimate of 15,522. The number of murders was 21 percent less than in 1996 and 37.2 percent less than in 1991. more...
http://www.unitedjustice.com/death-statistics.html

According to the CIA World Fact Book the United States is ranked 107 for most deaths per year, it doesn't specify the cause.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

So, according to the CIA figure of 8.5 deaths per 1000 people, that's 2550000 deaths per year in the United States, from various causes of course.

Even if 1500 are from guns, that is a very small fraction

dunkman

dunkman1974 wrote:

but you see... i'm fine with that.. i'm fine with the fact that someone else has picked up a hammer and smashed someones head in...

i've said all along in threads like this, that my main concern is kids under 14 years of age are being systematically murdered by the misuse of handguns...

the murder rate as a result of the banning of handguns in scotland has halved.... murder rates dropped from a 1996 total of 134 to a low of 93 in 1998...

have you not noticed how low these fugures are yet either.. we have a pop. of 5.2 million and yet we only have 134 murders in one year.... thats 1 dead person for every 38805 alive people... the US has a pop. of 300million and has on average 15,000 murders per year.. thats 1 dead person for 20000 alive people

twice as likely to be murdered in america

i fucked up in my figures.. these ones are right !!

have you not noticed how low these fugures are yet either.. we have a pop. of 5.2 million and yet we only have 12 gun related murders a year.... thats 1 dead person for every 43333 alive people... the US has a pop. of 300million and has on average 30,000 murders per year.. thats 1 dead person for 10000 alive people


so in actual fact i'm 4 times more likely to be killed by a gun in the states than here.... :cool: thats 'awesome'... now myspace problems aside, the only thing we have done "differently" is gun control?

Ahnimus

dunkman1974 wrote:

12 due to firearms yes.... i was quoting the Scotland.gov figures of actual deaths... murders, homicides... even those deaths with a spatula for instance.. which means i need to change my figures.. thanks!!!

maths was never a strong point

Ok, so 12 out of 2,550,000 deaths annually in the United States are caused by firearms, not including suicides.

Ahnimus

dunkman1974 wrote:

i fucked up in my figures

have you not noticed how low these fugures are yet either.. we have a pop. of 5.2 million and yet we only have 12 gun related murders a year.... thats 1 dead person for every 43333 alive people... the US has a pop. of 300million and has on average 30,000 murders per year.. thats 1 dead person for 10000 alive people


so in actual fact i'm 4 times more likely to be killed by a gun in the states than here.... :cool: thats 'awesome'... now myspace problems aside, the only thing we have done "differently" is gun control?

You may be four times more likely in the united states. That's the difference between a 0.001% chance and a 0.004% chance. I feel it's still a relatively small chance. It's larger in developing countries not because of gun laws but because of their society.

dunkman

Ahnimus wrote:

It's larger in developing countries not because of gun laws but because of their society.

but the US is the only country with frivolous gun laws

in a study of the worlds 26 most developed nations this was the result:-

"The homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51) "

thats 5 times higher than the other 25 countries COMBINED... the other 25 countries all have strong regulated handguin laws.... and the US doesnt... cant you see the pattern

dunkman

Ahnimus wrote:

You may be four times more likely in the united states. That's the difference between a 0.001% chance and a 0.004% chance. I feel it's still a relatively small chance. It's larger in developing countries not because of gun laws but because of their society.

of course its a small chance... in a population of 300million, 30k are murdered by guns.. thats good odds that you might never face a gun... especially if you are white and live in rural Wisconsin, its a whole different set of stats if you're black aged 18-35 and live in inner city Washington DC.. but thats a whole other thread