Well your survey mentioned women taking on greater domestic roles on top of working and men allowing this to happen. I just figure if you're not married then this wouldn't really be the case right? I mean I don't know any single women who are going to work a full day, then race around to some blokes house and do the housework on top of that just for the hell of it. So this could really only be happening in marriage/cohabitation situations. I was thinking if the marriage rate had actually dropped, which it has in many parts of the world, then perhaps all the doom and gloom is not quite as the survey presents it. I mean, it's only an article and one survey. Otherwise, I think all that you have said I am in agreement about. Well I didn't really like your obsession with engagement rings, but then Ahnimus has that too so perhaps it's a bit of a phobia sweeping the country!!
As to men and women being the same, I would hate that. And I would never advocate that we try to blur the gender roles so much that we lose our intrinsic differences. But I'm fairly certain that's not going to happen. The physical differences alone should be enough to ensure that doesn't happen.
i wasnt obsessed with engagement rings, that was all the other pansy guys around here who seem as concerned with jewelry as a woman. i couldnt care less about engagement rings. in fact, i dont think i mentioned them until this post which was only a joking passing reference to them.
the survey doesnt say what the sample was. i didnt see any indication it was restricted to married or cohabiting couples in terms of its sample. its theories were only guesses to explain the results. but there's not enough about the sample to draw any conclusions about that. in any case, i dont know if lack of cohabiting would make any difference or not. going by their conclusions, i suppose it would. but if their sample was random, i dont think it would make a difference in terms of happiness, but it would means their hypothetical reasons for dissatisfaction are wrong.
but the whole values/costs of marriage vs. single life is a whole other debate. for the sake of this survey, i think the assumption is men and women have since the dawn of time liked to pair off and will continue to do so. whether or not that is a good thing is a whole other debate and one i think we would really butt heads on.
But more importantly, who gives a fuck? Do you keep score in your relationships? That's a sure-fire recipe for unhappiness.
Ain't that the truth!
I went through exactly that with my Ex (the mother of my kids).
I've never been a person who keeps track. As far as I'm concerned, when you love someone there's nothing to keep track of. And that goes for close friends that I love, not just romantic/intimate releationships. I do things for someone because I love them and I want to help, make them happy, see them happy and see them smile. In a relationship, with someone you love there really are no favors. You either do things because you want to be there for them, want to help and be part of the solution; or it becomes a torrid exchange or negotiation of even the pettiest of daily chores.
That's no way to be happy or live.
But after a few years with my Ex she made it painfully clear that she was keeping track. Not only was she carrying a mental scorecard around in her head, but there was always these tipping scales on each side of her head that weighted everything in favors received and favors given.
if that wasn't bad enough, her standards of fairness are greatly tipped in her favor. She routinely pushed this subject to the forefront for discussion and alwayd felt like she was being short-changed. So after having this subject shoved down my throat, I actually gave it some honest and fair thought and discovered the truth of the matter.
For instance, when she would do something nice for me.....something she would consider and catagorize as a "favor"; in her mind, it would take 4-5 acts on my part just to equlal or balance out these mental scales of injustice in her head.
This is coming from her own behavior and the discussions we had; her own mouth. Not some vague perception or speculation on my part.
I found all this very odd and strange. Never had I encountered a girlfriend like this. I had never been with anyone who was like this.
For years I tired to make her understand that I didn't spend my days (of life ) weighing this shit out and concerning myself about which way the scales were tipping on any given day. I tried every approach to communicate, convey, and speak from the heart to her.
The mistake I made was thinking that if I stuck with it I could help her understand how ridiculous and detrimental this was to our relationship; and how she was being completely unfair, unbalanced and very selective in her weighing of "favors". That when you love someone you don't concern yourself with that crap and she shouldn't be doing that.
It was a mistake. She refused to be honest with herself and with me. She refused to be honest in her self-awareness and accountability.
It's always a mistake to think you can change someone and I know better than that. But there you have it.
So after seven and a half years and two kids we broke up and seperated.
Surprisingly (or not so surprising), she had an amazing moment of clarity and reality. Reality set in.........in a hard way.
For the better part of nine months she has been scrambling to convince me she has "changed" and that she now appreciates all that I did, provided and appreciates me as the father of our children.
Sad thing, it's too late. She killed it with that keeping track crap and those scales of injustice.
Obviously the these people that think you're crazy and ask you why you don't shave have too much a preoccupation with appearance. Go ask the people who are big in personality, rather, what they think and you'll get a different response.
I don't think i even need to ask, people just come up and talk to me sometimes. I've had a few girls say some pretty funny things, good things. Infact I was gonna shave a couple weeks ago then I met this italian girl and she did'nt seem to mind, she kinda liked it or just did'nt care. That made me put down the razor once again. I mean she was like oh brian, don't cut don't cut. Not only her, women from norwary, france... They all dress up themselves so they do care how they look and whatever else but they seem less worried about how others look or dress.
Americans girls? that's another story, I think a large portion of them are caught on with appearance, perhaps coming from their own insecurities, so maybe they need everything around them to be "perfect" to make themselves feel better. I dunno, I mean I see the tv, everythings about how to make yourself look like this actor or how to get your hair like that way, it's seems so empty to me.
One of the reasoms why I like orlando, maybe the only reason is because I meet soooo many people from different countries, almost everyones from some place else. it's amazing how different people are. how unique each countries people often are from other countries.
DO people go online just to read about other people go on talking about themselves?
I mean.....that's kinda odd, not to mention boring.
Isn't talking about yourself excessively one of the first rules on how to sabotage a date or get someone (who actually is interested in the first place) to genuinely lose interest?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
DO people go online just to read about other people go on talking about themselves?
I mean.....that's kinda odd, not to mention boring.
Isn't talking about yourself excessively one of the first rules on how to sabotage a date or get someone (who actually is interested in the first place) to genuinely lose interest?
i think a lot of people come on here to flirt with each other and garner attention.
I went through exactly that with my Ex (the mother of my kids).
I've never been a person who keeps track. As far as I'm concerned, when you love someone there's nothing to keep track of. And that goes for close friends that I love, not just romantic/intimate releationships. I do things for someone because I love them and I want to help, make them happy, see them happy and see them smile. In a relationship, with someone you love there really are no favors. You either do things because you want to be there for them, want to help and be part of the solution; or it becomes a torrid exchange or negotiation of even the pettiest of daily chores.
That's no way to be happy or live.
But after a few years with my Ex she made it painfully clear that she was keeping track. Not only was she carrying a mental scorecard around in her head, but there was always these tipping scales on each side of her head that weighted everything in favors received and favors given.
if that wasn't bad enough, her standards of fairness are greatly tipped in her favor. She routinely pushed this subject to the forefront for discussion and alwayd felt like she was being short-changed. So after having this subject shoved down my throat, I actually gave it some honest and fair thought and discovered the truth of the matter.
For instance, when she would do something nice for me.....something she would consider and catagorize as a "favor"; in her mind, it would take 4-5 acts on my part just to equlal or balance out these mental scales of injustice in her head.
This is coming from her own behavior and the discussions we had; her own mouth. Not some vague perception or speculation on my part.
I found all this very odd and strange. Never had I encountered a girlfriend like this. I had never been with anyone who was like this.
For years I tired to make her understand that I didn't spend my days (of life ) weighing this shit out and concerning myself about which way the scales were tipping on any given day. I tried every approach to communicate, convey, and speak from the heart to her.
The mistake I made was thinking that if I stuck with it I could help her understand how ridiculous and detrimental this was to our relationship; and how she was being completely unfair, unbalanced and very selective in her weighing of "favors". That when you love someone you don't concern yourself with that crap and she shouldn't be doing that.
It was a mistake. She refused to be honest with herself and with me. She refused to be honest in her self-awareness and accountability.
It's always a mistake to think you can change someone and I know better than that. But there you have it.
So after seven and a half years and two kids we broke up and seperated.
Surprisingly (or not so surprising), she had an amazing moment of clarity and reality. Reality set in.........in a hard way.
For the better part of nine months she has been scrambling to convince me she has "changed" and that she now appreciates all that I did, provided and appreciates me as the father of our children.
Sad thing, it's too late. She killed it with that keeping track crap and those scales of injustice.
Holy shit!?!?!!?!!!! I never knew people actually thought this way. :eek:
i think a lot of people come on here to flirt with each other and garner attention.
Odd. You would think most would seek information over the mundane sitting in front of a computer.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
DO people go online just to read about other people go on talking about themselves?
I mean.....that's kinda odd, not to mention boring.
Isn't talking about yourself excessively one of the first rules on how to sabotage a date or get someone (who actually is interested in the first place) to genuinely lose interest?
Or I was simply sharing an experience that related directly to what hippiemom had said.
You know, not everyone thinks and percieves things the way you do.
Sometimes people are sharing a little bit of themselves with others. What you find boring, other's may percieve as a connection because they have experienced it, too. While other's may percieve it as something they can learn from.
Sometimes people's intentions are not exclusively what only you percieve them to be.
i wasnt obsessed with engagement rings, that was all the other pansy guys around here who seem as concerned with jewelry as a woman. i couldnt care less about engagement rings. in fact, i dont think i mentioned them until this post which was only a joking passing reference to them.
the survey doesnt say what the sample was. i didnt see any indication it was restricted to married or cohabiting couples in terms of its sample. its theories were only guesses to explain the results. but there's not enough about the sample to draw any conclusions about that. in any case, i dont know if lack of cohabiting would make any difference or not. going by their conclusions, i suppose it would. but if their sample was random, i dont think it would make a difference in terms of happiness, but it would means their hypothetical reasons for dissatisfaction are wrong.
but the whole values/costs of marriage vs. single life is a whole other debate. for the sake of this survey, i think the assumption is men and women have since the dawn of time liked to pair off and will continue to do so. whether or not that is a good thing is a whole other debate and one i think we would really butt heads on.
In the shadow of the light from a black sun
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
by the fact that you seem to think it's a worthless sucker's bet and sleeping around is a good thing
I got no problem with people co-habiting. I just reckon it's a minefield to negotiate. And that's if you are living with a partner, kids, family members or flatmates. I've never managed to successfully cohabit with a male sexual partner in that I was but I'm not now. If the definition of success be longevity then I've failed I guess. If I am in a situation where I would want to live with a man again, and he with me, then I guess we'll both be negotiating a fair deal for both of us then. I would like to think that we could have a happy, healthy equal partnership. That will always be my aim.
And as to sleeping around ss, well sorry, but yeah, I do believe if you wanna get your rocks off go for it!! Just don't be lying, cheating and scheming about it. AND make sure you practice safe sex. That's my blanket take on the situation and covers both men and women. And if you want to abstain, or sleep with one person for the rest of your life that's cool too. imo. Whatever floats your boat. Sex is one of the few true pleasures left in this world. And as it's all about love I say bring it on!!
And as to sleeping around ss, well sorry, but yeah, I do believe if you wanna get your rocks off go for it!! Just don't be lying, cheating and scheming about it. AND make sure you practice safe sex. That's my blanket take on the situation and covers both men and women. And if you want to abstain, or sleep with one person for the rest of your life that's cool too. imo. Whatever floats your boat. Sex is one of the few true pleasures left in this world. And as it's all about love I say bring it on!!
sex isnt always about love jeanie. nor should it have to be.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
"women deal with the same thing."
"and most men still expect her to do the housework."
it's fun to only look for what you want in posts isnt it?
:rolleyes:
I was somewhat joking, but let's be honest, at least 10,000 of your 23,000 posts are about your angst concerning women. However, I do like your post here
m curious what stance you think i promote here. im not even sure i have one. nor do i see what relevance marriage rates would have on this survery. free love was a failed experiment and the conservatism we both dislike is simply a reaction to the excess of the free love movement. i dont doubt things are more equal now than they have been, nor that they will continue to be equal. but equal does not mean "the same." and all i posted this for was discussion about at what point does the pursuit of being the same hurt our happiness? equal opportunity and access is important to have as an option, but does it mean we should continue to choose options that make us unhappy just becos they are there? im not saying women should stay home and men should go to work, but i am saying women should not feel they have to work a job they dont want to prove they are independent, and men should not be prohibitied from staying home and raising kids becos they feel it is unmasculine. it should be about breaking down barriers to happiness and fulfillment, not replacing one form of expectations with another.
This is very good. I like the equal but not the same. Men and women both bring different assets to the table, Yin & Yang.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Men and women both bring different assets to the table, Yin & Yang.
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here.
Men and women have some very obvious anatomical difference, such as male and female sex organs. But I don't believe that we are naturally any different. What is in our minds is mostly what we've been subjected to and the way we interpret it. Up until the 1960s there was some hard-lines between male and female behavior in western culture (not the world). However, since women's liberation we've seen an explosion of self-reflectant behavior, people tend to behave more how they feel. Many men behave similarily to women and many women behave similarily to men.
But most of our behaviour in general, wether you are a man, woman, hindu, buddhist or rastafarian is the result of behaviour modelling, as children we learn how to behave within our physical and social environments. As adults we tend to look at other cultures and say "I would never do that.", by this statement we are essentially admitting that we are, in most part, a product of our culture, we are often disgusted or amused by another culture's traditions. These feelings of disgust and amusement are a part of us, guided by our cultural norms.
Yin & Yang basically says things are not black or white, everything had an opposite, but within every black is some white, the more black you have the less white, but there will always be white in the black. It doesn't make much sense to me talking about the colours black and white. However, it could apply to Jungian Psychology, with Jung's theory of Anima and Animus, however I feel that requires gender roles to be secure. At this point in our culture it's always an insult to someone to say "Men/Women are like this.."
Anyway, I just want to abolish this ancient myth that we are behaviouraly different by nature. Oh, by the way, I saw a video on youtube you'll like, check it out, Cute Otters
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Men and women have some very obvious anatomical difference, such as male and female sex organs. But I don't believe that we are naturally any different. What is in our minds is mostly what we've been subjected to and the way we interpret it. Up until the 1960s there was some hard-lines between male and female behavior in western culture (not the world). However, since women's liberation we've seen an explosion of self-reflectant behavior, people tend to behave more how they feel. Many men behave similarily to women and many women behave similarily to men.
But most of our behaviour in general, wether you are a man, woman, hindu, buddhist or rastafarian is the result of behaviour modelling, as children we learn how to behave within our physical and social environments. As adults we tend to look at other cultures and say "I would never do that.", by this statement we are essentially admitting that we are, in most part, a product of our culture, we are often disgusted or amused by another culture's traditions. These feelings of disgust and amusement are a part of us, guided by our cultural norms.
Yin & Yang basically says things are not black or white, everything had an opposite, but within every black is some white, the more black you have the less white, but there will always be white in the black. It doesn't make much sense to me talking about the colours black and white. However, it could apply to Jungian Psychology, with Jung's theory of Anima and Animus, however I feel that requires gender roles to be secure. At this point in our culture it's always an insult to someone to say "Men/Women are like this.."
Anyway, I just want to abolish this ancient myth that we are behaviouraly different by nature. Oh, by the way, I saw a video on youtube you'll like, check it out, Cute Otters
You don't think that our biological differences create different behaviors? For example, women tend to be more relationship oriented ... you don't think that has anything to do with their role giving birth to and nourishing babies? It's to our advantage as a species that women be other-centered and intuitive as to the needs of others.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
You don't think that our biological differences create different behaviors? For example, women tend to be more relationship oriented ... you don't think that has anything to do with their role giving birth to and nourishing babies? It's to our advantage as a species that women be other-centered and intuitive as to the needs of others.
I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I actually know that's not the case.
That's too say that a man who is sensitive, intuitive and caring has a biochemical imbalance? I don't think so. I actually think the biochemistry is somewhat affected by behavior.
Anyway, I believe I've linked Margaret Mead's ground-breaking research in gender roles a dozen or so times, but I'll link for you. Even within my own city I can see the major changes happening in gender roles and behavior. The ratio of men:women in this city, is apparently 1:4 and of those 25% men, some large portion are homosexual. A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay. Probably because of the large population of women and female influence.
When Margaret Mead described her research to her students at Columbia University, she put succinctly what her objectives and her conclusions were. A first-hand account by an anthropologist who studied with Mead in the 60s and 70s provides the following information:
1. Mead tells of Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies. "She explained that nobody knew the degree to which temperament is biologically determined by sex. So she hoped to see whether there were cultural or social factors that affected temperament. Were men inevitably aggressive? Were women inevitably "homebodies"? It turned out that the three cultures she lived with in New Guinea were almost a perfect laboratory — for each had the variables that we associate with masculine and feminine in an arrangement different from ours. She said this surprised her, and wasn't what she was trying to find. It was just there.
• "Among the Arapesh, both men and women were peaceful in temperament and neither men nor women made war.
• "Among the Mundugumor, the opposite was true: both men and women were warlike in temperament.
• "And the Tchambuli were different from both. The men 'primped' and spent their time decorating themselves while the women worked and were the practical ones — the opposite of how it seemed in early 20th century America."
2. Mead tells of Growing Up in New Guinea. "Margaret Mead told us how she came to the research problem on which she based her Growing Up in New Guinea. She reasoned as follows: If primitive adults think in an animistic way, as Piaget says our children do, how do primitive children think?
• "In her research on Manus Island of New Guinea, she discovered that 'primitive' children think in a very practical way and begin to think in terms of spirits etc. as they get older.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I actually know that's not the case.
That's too say that a man who is sensitive, intuitive and caring has a biochemical imbalance? I don't think so. I actually think the biochemistry is somewhat affected by behavior.
Anyway, I believe I've linked Margaret Mead's ground-breaking research in gender roles a dozen or so times, but I'll link for you. Even within my own city I can see the major changes happening in gender roles and behavior. The ratio of men:women in this city, is apparently 1:4 and of those 25% men, some large portion are homosexual. A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay. Probably because of the large population of women and female influence.
Our personality preferences are generally decided by the time we are around 3 years old. And that includes whether, like 70% of males we develop a preference for using logic for decision-making, or like 70% of women we rely more on emotional considerations for decision making. Our brain quadruples in size between birth and adulthood, as our preferences, genetic predispositions and behaviours become hardwired into us. It may not be that women are inherently necessarily prone towards certain roles/behaviours, but the variables involved do cause that it does show up in distinct, discernable differences in brain functioning. For example, women generally have, I believe, 5 or 6 times the connection between the left and right hemispheres of the brain than the average right handed male. Left-handed men have a similar degree of left/right brain connection as women, incidentally. These connectors might, as baraka and hippiemom seemed to allude somewhat to, better equip women to the multi-tasking necessary with emotion providing within the family and other swift-gear shifting necessary throughout the day, than required by traditional male roles that rely more on logic alone, which occurs in the left neo-cortex alone.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay.
I just used the term 'fruity' in another thread. I didn't mean it as acting like a woman or a gay person. I've always used it as meaning corny or overly silly. If it means what you say it does, I guess I've been misusing it.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Our personality preferences are generally decided by the time we are around 3 years old. And that includes whether, like 70% of males we develop a preference for using logic for decision-making, or like 70% of women we rely more on emotional considerations for decision making. Our brain quadruples in size between birth and adulthood, as our preferences, genetic predispositions and behaviours become hardwired into us. It may not be that women are inherently necessarily prone towards certain roles/behaviours, but the variables involved do cause that it does show up in distinct, discernable differences in brain functioning. For example, women generally have, I believe, 5 or 6 times the connection between the left and right hemispheres of the brain than the average right handed male. Left-handed men have a similar degree of left/right brain connection as women, incidentally. These connectors might, as baraka and hippiemom seemed to allude somewhat to, better equip women to the multi-tasking necessary with emotion providing within the family and other swift-gear shifting necessary throughout the day, than required by traditional male roles that rely more on logic alone, which occurs in the left neo-cortex alone.
Actually the increase in white matter occurs primarily in the Amygdala. Which is the emotiona centre, or gateway to the limbic system.
The point is that the adults in our culture essentially program the children, causing them to fit these models we've created. So long as we continue to say "Men/Women are like this..." they will be. By saying it we are hard-wiring it into our children, they then behave according to expectations, for the most part.
Then the question remains, is it bad or good to have these distinct gender roles? According to women's liberation, it's a bad thing. Then we abolish this perception that men/women are better suited for specific roles within the family. This means women are not better parents naturally and men are not better workers as studies have shown. The differences are only from individual to individual. Perhaps we should look at the mass of white and grey matter of the amygdala in both parents to determine who is 'better'. But I don't think that's the only determining factor in what makes a good parent.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I just used the term 'fruity' in another thread. I didn't mean it as acting like a woman or a gay person. I've always used it as meaning corny or overly silly. If it means what you say it does, I guess I've been misusing it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
i wasnt obsessed with engagement rings, that was all the other pansy guys around here who seem as concerned with jewelry as a woman. i couldnt care less about engagement rings. in fact, i dont think i mentioned them until this post which was only a joking passing reference to them.
the survey doesnt say what the sample was. i didnt see any indication it was restricted to married or cohabiting couples in terms of its sample. its theories were only guesses to explain the results. but there's not enough about the sample to draw any conclusions about that. in any case, i dont know if lack of cohabiting would make any difference or not. going by their conclusions, i suppose it would. but if their sample was random, i dont think it would make a difference in terms of happiness, but it would means their hypothetical reasons for dissatisfaction are wrong.
but the whole values/costs of marriage vs. single life is a whole other debate. for the sake of this survey, i think the assumption is men and women have since the dawn of time liked to pair off and will continue to do so. whether or not that is a good thing is a whole other debate and one i think we would really butt heads on.
Ain't that the truth!
I went through exactly that with my Ex (the mother of my kids).
I've never been a person who keeps track. As far as I'm concerned, when you love someone there's nothing to keep track of. And that goes for close friends that I love, not just romantic/intimate releationships. I do things for someone because I love them and I want to help, make them happy, see them happy and see them smile. In a relationship, with someone you love there really are no favors. You either do things because you want to be there for them, want to help and be part of the solution; or it becomes a torrid exchange or negotiation of even the pettiest of daily chores.
That's no way to be happy or live.
But after a few years with my Ex she made it painfully clear that she was keeping track. Not only was she carrying a mental scorecard around in her head, but there was always these tipping scales on each side of her head that weighted everything in favors received and favors given.
if that wasn't bad enough, her standards of fairness are greatly tipped in her favor. She routinely pushed this subject to the forefront for discussion and alwayd felt like she was being short-changed. So after having this subject shoved down my throat, I actually gave it some honest and fair thought and discovered the truth of the matter.
For instance, when she would do something nice for me.....something she would consider and catagorize as a "favor"; in her mind, it would take 4-5 acts on my part just to equlal or balance out these mental scales of injustice in her head.
This is coming from her own behavior and the discussions we had; her own mouth. Not some vague perception or speculation on my part.
I found all this very odd and strange. Never had I encountered a girlfriend like this. I had never been with anyone who was like this.
For years I tired to make her understand that I didn't spend my days (of life ) weighing this shit out and concerning myself about which way the scales were tipping on any given day. I tried every approach to communicate, convey, and speak from the heart to her.
The mistake I made was thinking that if I stuck with it I could help her understand how ridiculous and detrimental this was to our relationship; and how she was being completely unfair, unbalanced and very selective in her weighing of "favors". That when you love someone you don't concern yourself with that crap and she shouldn't be doing that.
It was a mistake. She refused to be honest with herself and with me. She refused to be honest in her self-awareness and accountability.
It's always a mistake to think you can change someone and I know better than that. But there you have it.
So after seven and a half years and two kids we broke up and seperated.
Surprisingly (or not so surprising), she had an amazing moment of clarity and reality. Reality set in.........in a hard way.
For the better part of nine months she has been scrambling to convince me she has "changed" and that she now appreciates all that I did, provided and appreciates me as the father of our children.
Sad thing, it's too late. She killed it with that keeping track crap and those scales of injustice.
I don't think i even need to ask, people just come up and talk to me sometimes. I've had a few girls say some pretty funny things, good things. Infact I was gonna shave a couple weeks ago then I met this italian girl and she did'nt seem to mind, she kinda liked it or just did'nt care. That made me put down the razor once again. I mean she was like oh brian, don't cut don't cut. Not only her, women from norwary, france... They all dress up themselves so they do care how they look and whatever else but they seem less worried about how others look or dress.
Americans girls? that's another story, I think a large portion of them are caught on with appearance, perhaps coming from their own insecurities, so maybe they need everything around them to be "perfect" to make themselves feel better. I dunno, I mean I see the tv, everythings about how to make yourself look like this actor or how to get your hair like that way, it's seems so empty to me.
One of the reasoms why I like orlando, maybe the only reason is because I meet soooo many people from different countries, almost everyones from some place else. it's amazing how different people are. how unique each countries people often are from other countries.
I mean.....that's kinda odd, not to mention boring.
Isn't talking about yourself excessively one of the first rules on how to sabotage a date or get someone (who actually is interested in the first place) to genuinely lose interest?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
i think a lot of people come on here to flirt with each other and garner attention.
Holy shit!?!?!!?!!!! I never knew people actually thought this way. :eek:
Odd. You would think most would seek information over the mundane sitting in front of a computer.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Or I was simply sharing an experience that related directly to what hippiemom had said.
You know, not everyone thinks and percieves things the way you do.
Sometimes people are sharing a little bit of themselves with others. What you find boring, other's may percieve as a connection because they have experienced it, too. While other's may percieve it as something they can learn from.
Sometimes people's intentions are not exclusively what only you percieve them to be.
"stole it from us he did."
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
There's a lot to be learned from other people's experiences.
You do huh? How can you predict that?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
look at me look at me look at me now!!!!!!!!!!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
by the fact that you seem to think it's a worthless sucker's bet and sleeping around is a good thing
Yeah, she really got me, didn't she!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb
Where are the frost giants Ive begged for protection?
I'm freezing
Are you afraid, afraid to die
Don't be afraid, afraid to try
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I got no problem with people co-habiting. I just reckon it's a minefield to negotiate. And that's if you are living with a partner, kids, family members or flatmates. I've never managed to successfully cohabit with a male sexual partner in that I was but I'm not now. If the definition of success be longevity then I've failed I guess. If I am in a situation where I would want to live with a man again, and he with me, then I guess we'll both be negotiating a fair deal for both of us then. I would like to think that we could have a happy, healthy equal partnership. That will always be my aim.
And as to sleeping around ss, well sorry, but yeah, I do believe if you wanna get your rocks off go for it!! Just don't be lying, cheating and scheming about it. AND make sure you practice safe sex. That's my blanket take on the situation and covers both men and women. And if you want to abstain, or sleep with one person for the rest of your life that's cool too. imo. Whatever floats your boat. Sex is one of the few true pleasures left in this world. And as it's all about love I say bring it on!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Huh?? What's wrong Trau? Need some attention?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
sex isnt always about love jeanie. nor should it have to be.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
sssshhh!!! I'm trying to be wholesome!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
sssssshhhh!!! i'm trying to be real.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
hehe!! Oh you are VERY real girl!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I was somewhat joking, but let's be honest, at least 10,000 of your 23,000 posts are about your angst concerning women. However, I do like your post here
This is very good. I like the equal but not the same. Men and women both bring different assets to the table, Yin & Yang.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here.
Men and women have some very obvious anatomical difference, such as male and female sex organs. But I don't believe that we are naturally any different. What is in our minds is mostly what we've been subjected to and the way we interpret it. Up until the 1960s there was some hard-lines between male and female behavior in western culture (not the world). However, since women's liberation we've seen an explosion of self-reflectant behavior, people tend to behave more how they feel. Many men behave similarily to women and many women behave similarily to men.
But most of our behaviour in general, wether you are a man, woman, hindu, buddhist or rastafarian is the result of behaviour modelling, as children we learn how to behave within our physical and social environments. As adults we tend to look at other cultures and say "I would never do that.", by this statement we are essentially admitting that we are, in most part, a product of our culture, we are often disgusted or amused by another culture's traditions. These feelings of disgust and amusement are a part of us, guided by our cultural norms.
Yin & Yang basically says things are not black or white, everything had an opposite, but within every black is some white, the more black you have the less white, but there will always be white in the black. It doesn't make much sense to me talking about the colours black and white. However, it could apply to Jungian Psychology, with Jung's theory of Anima and Animus, however I feel that requires gender roles to be secure. At this point in our culture it's always an insult to someone to say "Men/Women are like this.."
Anyway, I just want to abolish this ancient myth that we are behaviouraly different by nature. Oh, by the way, I saw a video on youtube you'll like, check it out, Cute Otters
I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I actually know that's not the case.
That's too say that a man who is sensitive, intuitive and caring has a biochemical imbalance? I don't think so. I actually think the biochemistry is somewhat affected by behavior.
Anyway, I believe I've linked Margaret Mead's ground-breaking research in gender roles a dozen or so times, but I'll link for you. Even within my own city I can see the major changes happening in gender roles and behavior. The ratio of men:women in this city, is apparently 1:4 and of those 25% men, some large portion are homosexual. A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay. Probably because of the large population of women and female influence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead
And of course I'm not discounting the cultural influences. I think they're huge and account for most differences, but not necessarily all.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I just used the term 'fruity' in another thread. I didn't mean it as acting like a woman or a gay person. I've always used it as meaning corny or overly silly. If it means what you say it does, I guess I've been misusing it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Actually the increase in white matter occurs primarily in the Amygdala. Which is the emotiona centre, or gateway to the limbic system.
The point is that the adults in our culture essentially program the children, causing them to fit these models we've created. So long as we continue to say "Men/Women are like this..." they will be. By saying it we are hard-wiring it into our children, they then behave according to expectations, for the most part.
Then the question remains, is it bad or good to have these distinct gender roles? According to women's liberation, it's a bad thing. Then we abolish this perception that men/women are better suited for specific roles within the family. This means women are not better parents naturally and men are not better workers as studies have shown. The differences are only from individual to individual. Perhaps we should look at the mass of white and grey matter of the amygdala in both parents to determine who is 'better'. But I don't think that's the only determining factor in what makes a good parent.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fruity