Again, please look into studies and articles that contain 'straight up' scientific findings and data instead of articles full of speculation and 'other people's opinions'. Go out and research the topic yourself, then make up your mind. Was that article even written by a healthcare professional? I saw it quoted an ambulance-chasing attorney. Nice.
Are you aware that MANY, if not ALL medical treatments and medications pose some risk? Like I said earlier, it would be short-sided to suggest there is any medication, etc that does not have some risk. Medicine is an interesting balancing act. Sometimes the treatment of one problem leads to other problems. There is a fine line between medicinal & toxic when meds are concerned.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I seem to have lost my aluminum foil hat..............JamMastaE, u have an extra one I can borrow?
yes along with an extra clue.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
i'll admit that the school curriculuum may at times be in need of tweaking, especially in the areas of history and such, but, in all due respect, what a load of crap. You can't be serious with this. Can you? Please tell me this is sarcasm and you forgot the little rolling eyes smiley thingey. Please. i'm begging you to tell me that.
i'm scared. What i've gathered from some of the posts on this board the past few days is that, our children should be unvaccinated, kept of school and handed a daily supply of Pot and a dented soda pop can off which to smoke it. Thats just the kind of society we need to produce. A bunch of stoned, uneducated, unvaccinated creatures. That all sounds like a sci-fi channel nightmare.
This is the problem with the left as i see it (and i consider myself leftist). We are all trying to prove just how left we are and constantly trying to outleft the next guy and it is getting absolutely fucking ridiculous. Its like if you think mandatory schooling is a good thing, a twelve year old's parents should have to be notified before giving her an abortion and marijuanna usage needs to have some stiff enforceable regulations, they take away your liberal card and kick you out of the club. This is why we've lost two straight elections to a guy like Bush, guys. We better start exhibiting some common fucking sense.
What are you carrying on about?? Most liberals are for more funding for schools. How you came up with being against public schooling means we are trying to be so far left is beyond me. I would say it's closer to libertarian if anything. I'll think how I choose to think...I don't care if it comes up as right, left, diagonal or upside down. In fact, I don't know anyone who is trying to out left the next guy or whatever the hell you're talking about. That's your skewed perception, don't try pushing it on anyone else. Maybe you need to stop oversimplifying things just a tad and not worry about clubs or who is in them. You're righteous attitude is getting tired.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The article contains links to all it's references. I also read through the 'Rapid Response' section and it was interesting as well. There were views presented by folks on both sides of the issue.
Edit for another good article containing good references from the official Journal of American Academy of Pediatrics.
It seems only recently that this vaccine was approved for distribution to the public. Maybe I'm wrong on that. At any rate, I'd be weary of potential unknown side effects.
This vaccine was recently approved after years of clinical trials. That's the reason that we know it provides protection for at least 5 years. The scientific community is continuing to study the efficacy of the vaccine to determine how long protection is provided. I know I didn't have any side effects when I got my vaccination.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the paplova virus is sexually transmitted, making it fundamentally different from the viruses shown above.
Do you advocate the administering of STD vaccines as a condition of enrollment in school?
First it is papillomavirus. Essentially every person will be exposed to HPV at some in their life. It is sexually transmitted. But remember that Hepatitis B can also be sexually transmitted (as well as by contact with blood/body fluids such as in transfusions). Schools require vaccination against Hep B now. There was a huge uproar about requiring vaccination against Hep B since it is an STD. That vaccine has saved MANY people from contracting a serious illness.
I think being able to write and read is one of the best gifts of life. And mandatory school exists before any concept of capitalism started germing in the minds of economists. So I fail to see how it's aim is to mold consumers. Perhaps modern shool does so, but you are free to choose in wich school you want your kid to go and what education you want him to have.
As someone said you can't trust the government to do all the work and do it correctly, so parents may have a responsibility in the education of the child.
guns were created long before convenience stores and yet they can still be used to rob one...i don't understand the point about when mandatory schooling was created <it certainly wasn't enforced here before capitalism>
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Certainly there are some schools that still operatre like that- but the approach to education you have described is very 1960's.
I have just started teaching in a high school here in Australia. I gave up what had always been my dream job (working in a wildlife park, feeding crocodiles) after 5 years- despite the fact that I loved every day of work. It wasn't an easy decision to make, but I think it was the correct one. I guess that is why I might feel that there is more to it then molding the perfect obedient employee and consumer.
You say that you learnt from doing and not being told- well I say we learn from both, and a good school will allow the teacher and students to do both. You say they are rarely allowed to communicate- well I say come and join my grade 11 biology class for one of their debates on genetic engineering, or join my grade 8 science class as we discuss how parasites might be causing grasshoppers to commit suicide. You say we isolate them from their community- well I say that their class, their school- they become part of their community.
Going to school isn't about being indoctrinated to think like your teacher, or your parents, or even like some model citizen. It is about learning to make your own decisions. It is about being inspired to love learning for yourself so that you never stop doing it even after you leave school. At least that is how I think it should be.
Who knows; maybe I haven't had time to get cynical about education yet. I hope if I do though, I will have enough sense to get out of the system. Anyway, sorry if that sounded a little too much like a bad motivational speach. I just thing that a formal education should not be taken for granted (and neither should an informal one).
i guess i should've said american educational system...i ask you to come here and spend some time in our schools
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i'll admit that the school curriculuum may at times be in need of tweaking, especially in the areas of history and such, but, in all due respect, what a load of crap. You can't be serious with this. Can you? Please tell me this is sarcasm and you forgot the little rolling eyes smiley thingey. Please. i'm begging you to tell me that.
i'm scared. What i've gathered from some of the posts on this board the past few days is that, our children should be unvaccinated, kept of school and handed a daily supply of Pot and a dented soda pop can off which to smoke it. Thats just the kind of society we need to produce. A bunch of stoned, uneducated, unvaccinated creatures. That all sounds like a sci-fi channel nightmare.
This is the problem with the left as i see it (and i consider myself leftist). We are all trying to prove just how left we are and constantly trying to outleft the next guy and it is getting absolutely fucking ridiculous. Its like if you think mandatory schooling is a good thing, a twelve year old's parents should have to be notified before giving her an abortion and marijuanna usage needs to have some stiff enforceable regulations, they take away your liberal card and kick you out of the club. This is why we've lost two straight elections to a guy like Bush, guys. We better start exhibiting some common fucking sense.
ummmm whaaaaa? a kid can learn at home just as easily than in some building, then they'd at least be able to communicate w/ ppl. i have no idea what you mean by outleft the next guy and thinking kids shoudl have an empty can to smoke pot out of so i'll ignore that...
so what in my post did you take issue with? the american mandatory school system has nothing to do w/ educating children
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
nothing on there says who john scudamore is. also, getting your news from infowars is no different than getting your news from rush limbaugh... equal spin, different agenda.
ummmm whaaaaa? a kid can learn at home just as easily than in some building, then they'd at least be able to communicate w/ ppl. i have no idea what you mean by outleft the next guy and thinking kids shoudl have an empty can to smoke pot out of so i'll ignore that...
so what in my post did you take issue with? the american mandatory school system has nothing to do w/ educating children
who would they communicate with? they wouldnt see anyone besides their parents and family becos everyone else would be in school. anyone i know who is home schooled is socially dysfunctional and weird. you isolate the kid and they never learn how to play with others.
by out-left i think he means people like jammasta. to an extent the no-schooling thing is equally as far out as he is... it's a conviction that anything done by the government is some evil plot by the ultra-elite attempting to rule the world. schools are to brainwash kids and teach them their place, vaccinations are to give them diseases, etc etc. yes, our current school system is horribly distorted, ineffective, and inefficient... but when people with solid points like that add in some heated, fringe rhetoric about it being mind control, it costs the entire movement credibility.
that was pretty funny... i dont mean to diss anyone, just call them "boot licking,slave mentality,ignorant ass lemming,sheeple mutha fucker"s. maybe he's just pissed that the government didn't fund his school enough for him to get enough of an education to form an intellligent point without resorting to shit talking?
who would they communicate with? they wouldnt see anyone besides their parents and family becos everyone else would be in school. anyone i know who is home schooled is socially dysfunctional and weird. you isolate the kid and they never learn how to play with others.
by out-left i think he means people like jammasta. to an extent the no-schooling thing is equally as far out as he is... it's a conviction that anything done by the government is some evil plot by the ultra-elite attempting to rule the world. schools are to brainwash kids and teach them their place, vaccinations are to give them diseases, etc etc. yes, our current school system is horribly distorted, ineffective, and inefficient... but when people with solid points like that add in some heated, fringe rhetoric about it being mind control, it costs the entire movement credibility.
other kids...there's parks, the y, sports to join, kids out in the neighborhood....
who do they have to communicate w/ now??? recess is only 15-20 min, not allowed to talk during lunch....
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
other kids...there's parks, the y, sports to join, kids out in the neighborhood....
who do they have to communicate w/ now??? recess is only 15-20 min, not allowed to talk during lunch....
the parks, etc would all be empty while the other kids are at school and by the time they get out, your kid is going to be the strange outsider.
recess is shorter, but i have no idea what you're talking about with lunch there. ive never heard of a silent lunch. and we found plenty of ways to talk during class anyway... that was half the fun of going to school, so in a way, we were learning how to beat the man you're so worried about
also, have you even been INSIDE an inner city school in the last 5 years? if you think they're lockdown prisons with silent children being oppressed and prevented from even speaking... i suggest you go take a look at one. those kids do pretty much whatever they damn well please in there... if anyone is having a tough time emotionally due to the trauma of the school system, it's the teachers. i know many of them and they say it's damn near impossible to get the kids to listen to a word they say... let alone sit down and be quiet like you're so worried about. the problem of our schools is not that kids are being brain-washed... it's that school is more like a social club than a learning institution. unless you go to a white suburb where kids are still a bit afraid of what their parent smight do if they do something bad in class.
who would they communicate with? they wouldnt see anyone besides their parents and family becos everyone else would be in school. anyone i know who is home schooled is socially dysfunctional and weird. you isolate the kid and they never learn how to play with others.
by out-left i think he means people like jammasta. to an extent the no-schooling thing is equally as far out as he is... it's a conviction that anything done by the government is some evil plot by the ultra-elite attempting to rule the world. schools are to brainwash kids and teach them their place, vaccinations are to give them diseases, etc etc. yes, our current school system is horribly distorted, ineffective, and inefficient... but when people with solid points like that add in some heated, fringe rhetoric about it being mind control, it costs the entire movement credibility.
The problem is that the only people who have set up an adequate home-school network are the fundamentalists. I looked very hard into home-schooling my youngest daughter (I wasn't in a position to do that with the older one), and we'd have been okay up through 6th grade or so, but beyond that I'd need someone to teach fine arts and advanced math and science concepts, since I'm totally incapable of that. You need a network so that you have parents who are able to teach each subject at the higher levels, and so that you can arrange with local schools for the use of things like science labs and art studios.
I do think that homeschool can be very effective, and the fact that most of the kids you've met were strange probably had more to do with their fundamentalist upbringing than their schooling. A HUGE percentage of the day is wasted in public schools, on announcements and moving from room to room and trying to get everyone quiet and in their seats. I do know one girl who was homeschooled ... she had some issues with her parents regarding religion, but she wasn't at all "weird," she had plenty of friends (neighbors, kids from church, etc.) and she got into a very elite university.
I'd love to see progressive parents get together and set up something like what the fundies have done. I'd have done it if there had been some kind of support system, it was just too much on my own.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
the parks, etc would all be empty while the other kids are at school and by the time they get out, your kid is going to be the strange outsider.
recess is shorter, but i have no idea what you're talking about with lunch there. ive never heard of a silent lunch. and we found plenty of ways to talk during class anyway... that was half the fun of going to school, so in a way, we were learning how to beat the man you're so worried about
also, have you even been INSIDE an inner city school in the last 5 years? if you think they're lockdown prisons with silent children being oppressed and prevented from even speaking... i suggest you go take a look at one. those kids do pretty much whatever they damn well please in there... if anyone is having a tough time emotionally due to the trauma of the school system, it's the teachers. i know many of them and they say it's damn near impossible to get the kids to listen to a word they say... let alone sit down and be quiet like you're so worried about. the problem of our schools is not that kids are being brain-washed... it's that school is more like a social club than a learning institution. unless you go to a white suburb where kids are still a bit afraid of what their parent smight do if they do something bad in class.
yes, i am a father and i go to all the lunches at holidays and when the montessori class puts on something. they have 'silent lunch' there. there is no talking allowed. i remember how it was in school, too. but this school's policy is no talking at lunch
have you been in an elementary school in the past 5 years?
the parks would be empty or a kid is sitting a few feet from you but you can't talk to him...does it really matter? it's not like school is the only place to meet other kids
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i hate to diss people on this board but....anyone who thinks forced inoculation is a good thing should get the fuck out of this country and move to fucking china you boot licking,slave mentality,ignorant ass lemming,sheeple mutha fuckers.try doing some fucking research into vaccines and how they have been linked to aids virus(man made),cancer virus, etc.
not to mention how autism has exploded thanks to thimerosal,don't know what that is?i suggest you look it up as well as the 4th amendment of the constitution.
I fuckin bow to you!!!
I don't trust the government on this issue. Inoculation, forced, on FEMALES as young as 9 to "help save their lives".
Bitches please!
I don't trust this inoculation. where is the inoculation for males to spare them from the risk of prostrate cancer?
I'm tired of us women being USED as medical experiments!
~*~Me and Hippiemom dranketh the red wine in Cleveland 2003~*~
First PJ Show: March 20, 1994 | Ann Arbor | Crisler Arena
yes, i am a father and i go to all the lunches at holidays and when the montessori class puts on something. they have 'silent lunch' there. there is no talking allowed. i remember how it was in school, too. but this school's policy is no talking at lunch
have you been in an elementary school in the past 5 years?
the parks would be empty or a kid is sitting a few feet from you but you can't talk to him...does it really matter? it's not like school is the only place to meet other kids
what is a montessori class?
im saying you CAN talk to that kid, more so than you can talk to your imaginary friend anyway. a little social interaction is better than none. and currently, schools is the biggest place for kids to get consistent social interaction with other kids.
in any case, this all sounds like an argument for radically rethinking the way our school system is set up and operates. im not sure i see a benefit in mandatory schooling like we have now... it seems kind of a failure. but i hardly think our schools are some elaborate conspiracy designed by exxon-mobil to control the youth of america. they've just lost their effectiveness and become too large and mismanaged to serve the purpose for which they were created.
who do they have to communicate w/ now??? recess is only 15-20 min, not allowed to talk during lunch....
Honestly, i don't know what schools are generally like in your neck of the woods, but here, i not only have children in the public schools, i teach in them. My second grade son, when weather permits, has three outside recesses every day! each for at least 15 minutes. Not all schools are like that, i'll admit. Most are one a day for about twenty minutes like you say, but, honestly its school, how much recess do yoo want!! Recess is good and, in fact, very important, but as an experienced professional, i feel that twenty minutes in the middle of the day, especially for intermediate grades (4-6) is adequate. Especially when you consider the day is also broken up with "specials" such as music, art, and P.E. It isn't like they are sitting doing math problems for 6 1/2 hours a day.
And as far as the cafeteria is concerned, they are far from silent. Kids usually only stop talking long enough to take an occasional bite of food. Complain to any teacher, administrator, or cafeteria aid in any of the districts where i live of lunch time being silent, and they'll laugh at you. Literally belly laugh.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Dont be fooled by this act. This guy and many of his present and former aides have their hands in the Merck cookie jar. While this is a great thing in the battle against cancer it is my belief that he didnt do this entirely out of concern for women. Perrry, or Governor Hair as he's known down here, has aspirations to be the Republican Vice president candidate in 2008, so get ready for another Texan going for the Whitehouse !! Woohoo...**cough cough**.
The problem is that the only people who have set up an adequate home-school network are the fundamentalists. I looked very hard into home-schooling my youngest daughter (I wasn't in a position to do that with the older one), and we'd have been okay up through 6th grade or so, but beyond that I'd need someone to teach fine arts and advanced math and science concepts, since I'm totally incapable of that. You need a network so that you have parents who are able to teach each subject at the higher levels, and so that you can arrange with local schools for the use of things like science labs and art studios.
I do think that homeschool can be very effective, and the fact that most of the kids you've met were strange probably had more to do with their fundamentalist upbringing than their schooling. A HUGE percentage of the day is wasted in public schools, on announcements and moving from room to room and trying to get everyone quiet and in their seats. I do know one girl who was homeschooled ... she had some issues with her parents regarding religion, but she wasn't at all "weird," she had plenty of friends (neighbors, kids from church, etc.) and she got into a very elite university.
I'd love to see progressive parents get together and set up something like what the fundies have done. I'd have done it if there had been some kind of support system, it was just too much on my own.
The problem with homeschooling, as i see it is that it goes completely unchecked. There is absolutely no way the state (at least, where i live) checks to ensure that homeschooled children are actually being taught anything at all! i see that as a problem. It is true that generally speaking homeschooled children do well academically, i have known personally homeschool parents who, literally do nothing! On top of that, there is no set of credentials that need to be met. None. Many homeschool parents i have met are IMO completely unqualified, and it is a diservice to those children. i would go as far as to call it a form of neglect. i have no problem with people who choose to homeschool, as long as they are qualified, dedicated, and, yes, periodically checked and evaluated by the state for such things as reading and math.
You are, to a degree correct about fundamentalists, being a Christian i have met some that will go as far as condemn me for NOT homeschooling. Pisses me off, really. Whats more is the public schoolls allow homeschool kids to come to school for extracurriculars such as band, or tp play on the sports teams, and thesed individuals who condemn public schools use EVERY one of these opprotunities they can. (i know of a woman, who took her homeschooled daughter to the public school for strings, and demanded to know what kind of homosexual agenda they would be pushing on her daughter! At freaking violin class)!
Edit: i wanted also to mention that i have seen first hand, instances of how SOME homeschooled children suffer socially. Sure missing out on some of the Breakfast Club type crap can arguably be a benefit of homeschooling, but, i have seen instances of homeschool children who are extremely awkward with no social skills. Absolutely no idea how to interact with other children. Homeschool parents need to take extra measures to ensure their children learn social skills and experience quality interaction with a diverse pool of other children, and that doesn't always happen.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
alright, i didn't read through the last few pages becausei have work to do, i'll refrain from all the quips i have for jamasta. i've met ppl before who were against vaccination, but for more reasonable albeit uninformed reasons (i want my child's immune system to develop properly, etc) instead of conspiracy theories, i find it amusing when ppl believe so profoundly in conspiracy theories, and that's not because i'm some naive idiot, i do realize that not everything that 'the man' does is for our benefit.
alright, let me say this on the note of vaccines, i challenge anyone who is against vaccines and modern medecine to be sent to india or africa, i dare them to go there and come back and say that they're against vaccines.
in india i regularly saw ppl dying in the streets from diseases that could be prevented by vaccines, or easily cured with cheap meds. i saw ppl limping around every day because they had suffered from polio. these were young ppl my age who had had it. at first i didn't recognise the disease, since i was more used to seeing ppl with corrective footwear and a cane, but there they didn't always have shoes and were dragging one or both shrivled legs behind them. i'm happy that i've been vaccinated for everything from the measles to yellow fever, and i'd do it again (and will, when they wear off)
No problem can be solved from the same consciousness that created it.
Albert Einstein
The problem with homeschooling, as i see it is that it goes completely unchecked. There is absolutely no way the state (at least, where i live) checks to ensure that homeschooled children are actually being taught anything at all! i see that as a problem. It is true that generally speaking homeschooled children do well academically, i have known personally homeschool parents who, literally do nothing! On top of that, there is no set of credentials that need to be met. None. Many homeschool parents i have met are IMO completely unqualified, and it is a diservice to those children. i would go as far as to call it a form of neglect. i have no problem with people who choose to homeschool, as long as they are qualified, dedicated, and, yes, periodically checked and evaluated by the state for such things as reading and math.
You are, to a degree correct about fundamentalists, being a Christian i have met some that will go as far as condemn me for NOT homeschooling. Pisses me off, really. Whats more is the public schoolls allow homeschool kids to come to school for extracurriculars such as band, or tp play on the sports teams, and thesed individuals who condemn public schools use EVERY one of these opprotunities they can. (i know of a woman, who took her homeschooled daughter to the public school for strings, and demanded to know what kind of homosexual agenda they would be pushing on her daughter! At freaking violin class)!
if you're going to the extent of checking up on every homeschooled kid, it kinda defeats the purpose of homeschooling. my issue is more with government curriculum standards. honestly, at this point im kinda admitting defeat... but i dont think our kids need more of what the schools teach. do we really need every kid in the country to be able to recite the magna carta? i think this is a big problem... our schools trying to teach WAY too much and most of it being very unecessary. we used to have trades, farming, and apprenticeships for a reason. some people just aren't cut out for pure, abstract academics. trying to force it on people is a huge waste of time and money.
The problem with homeschooling, as i see it is that it goes completely unchecked. There is absolutely no way the state (at least, where i live) checks to ensure that homeschooled children are actually being taught anything at all! i see that as a problem. It is true that generally speaking homeschooled children do well academically, i have known personally homeschool parents who, literally do nothing! On top of that, there is no set of credentials that need to be met. None. Many homeschool parents i have met are IMO completely unqualified, and it is a diservice to those children. i would go as far as to call it a form of neglect. i have no problem with people who choose to homeschool, as long as they are qualified, dedicated, and, yes, periodically checked and evaluated by the state for such things as reading and math.
Maintain evidence of regular instruction including a record of subjects taught, activities in which the student and parent engage, a portfolio of the child’s work...
and
Participate in the annual statewide testing program and the Basic Skills Assessment Program
doesn't seem like a parent could get away teaching them nothing. you live in texas, right? they don't have any criteria so i can see how it could happen there and that would be a fault of the state
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Yeah, Deadlee74, almost no cases in women who are not and who have never been sexually active.
Although this is not a guarantee, I believe. Hence the pap smear not being required for women over 70 in Australia providing they are no longer sexually active.
Comments
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Are you kidding me? This projection has got to stop JamMastaE.
Again, please look into studies and articles that contain 'straight up' scientific findings and data instead of articles full of speculation and 'other people's opinions'. Go out and research the topic yourself, then make up your mind. Was that article even written by a healthcare professional? I saw it quoted an ambulance-chasing attorney. Nice.
Are you aware that MANY, if not ALL medical treatments and medications pose some risk? Like I said earlier, it would be short-sided to suggest there is any medication, etc that does not have some risk. Medicine is an interesting balancing act. Sometimes the treatment of one problem leads to other problems. There is a fine line between medicinal & toxic when meds are concerned.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
yes along with an extra clue.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
What are you carrying on about?? Most liberals are for more funding for schools. How you came up with being against public schooling means we are trying to be so far left is beyond me. I would say it's closer to libertarian if anything. I'll think how I choose to think...I don't care if it comes up as right, left, diagonal or upside down. In fact, I don't know anyone who is trying to out left the next guy or whatever the hell you're talking about. That's your skewed perception, don't try pushing it on anyone else. Maybe you need to stop oversimplifying things just a tad and not worry about clubs or who is in them. You're righteous attitude is getting tired.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7229/240
The article contains links to all it's references. I also read through the 'Rapid Response' section and it was interesting as well. There were views presented by folks on both sides of the issue.
Edit for another good article containing good references from the official Journal of American Academy of Pediatrics.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/107/5/e84
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
This vaccine was recently approved after years of clinical trials. That's the reason that we know it provides protection for at least 5 years. The scientific community is continuing to study the efficacy of the vaccine to determine how long protection is provided. I know I didn't have any side effects when I got my vaccination.
First it is papillomavirus. Essentially every person will be exposed to HPV at some in their life. It is sexually transmitted. But remember that Hepatitis B can also be sexually transmitted (as well as by contact with blood/body fluids such as in transfusions). Schools require vaccination against Hep B now. There was a huge uproar about requiring vaccination against Hep B since it is an STD. That vaccine has saved MANY people from contracting a serious illness.
guns were created long before convenience stores and yet they can still be used to rob one...i don't understand the point about when mandatory schooling was created <it certainly wasn't enforced here before capitalism>
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i guess i should've said american educational system...i ask you to come here and spend some time in our schools
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
ummmm whaaaaa? a kid can learn at home just as easily than in some building, then they'd at least be able to communicate w/ ppl. i have no idea what you mean by outleft the next guy and thinking kids shoudl have an empty can to smoke pot out of so i'll ignore that...
so what in my post did you take issue with? the american mandatory school system has nothing to do w/ educating children
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
nothing on there says who john scudamore is. also, getting your news from infowars is no different than getting your news from rush limbaugh... equal spin, different agenda.
who would they communicate with? they wouldnt see anyone besides their parents and family becos everyone else would be in school. anyone i know who is home schooled is socially dysfunctional and weird. you isolate the kid and they never learn how to play with others.
by out-left i think he means people like jammasta. to an extent the no-schooling thing is equally as far out as he is... it's a conviction that anything done by the government is some evil plot by the ultra-elite attempting to rule the world. schools are to brainwash kids and teach them their place, vaccinations are to give them diseases, etc etc. yes, our current school system is horribly distorted, ineffective, and inefficient... but when people with solid points like that add in some heated, fringe rhetoric about it being mind control, it costs the entire movement credibility.
Or perhaps somebody be needing a siphilius vax?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
other kids...there's parks, the y, sports to join, kids out in the neighborhood....
who do they have to communicate w/ now??? recess is only 15-20 min, not allowed to talk during lunch....
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the parks, etc would all be empty while the other kids are at school and by the time they get out, your kid is going to be the strange outsider.
recess is shorter, but i have no idea what you're talking about with lunch there. ive never heard of a silent lunch. and we found plenty of ways to talk during class anyway... that was half the fun of going to school, so in a way, we were learning how to beat the man you're so worried about
also, have you even been INSIDE an inner city school in the last 5 years? if you think they're lockdown prisons with silent children being oppressed and prevented from even speaking... i suggest you go take a look at one. those kids do pretty much whatever they damn well please in there... if anyone is having a tough time emotionally due to the trauma of the school system, it's the teachers. i know many of them and they say it's damn near impossible to get the kids to listen to a word they say... let alone sit down and be quiet like you're so worried about. the problem of our schools is not that kids are being brain-washed... it's that school is more like a social club than a learning institution. unless you go to a white suburb where kids are still a bit afraid of what their parent smight do if they do something bad in class.
I do think that homeschool can be very effective, and the fact that most of the kids you've met were strange probably had more to do with their fundamentalist upbringing than their schooling. A HUGE percentage of the day is wasted in public schools, on announcements and moving from room to room and trying to get everyone quiet and in their seats. I do know one girl who was homeschooled ... she had some issues with her parents regarding religion, but she wasn't at all "weird," she had plenty of friends (neighbors, kids from church, etc.) and she got into a very elite university.
I'd love to see progressive parents get together and set up something like what the fundies have done. I'd have done it if there had been some kind of support system, it was just too much on my own.
yes, i am a father and i go to all the lunches at holidays and when the montessori class puts on something. they have 'silent lunch' there. there is no talking allowed. i remember how it was in school, too. but this school's policy is no talking at lunch
have you been in an elementary school in the past 5 years?
the parks would be empty or a kid is sitting a few feet from you but you can't talk to him...does it really matter? it's not like school is the only place to meet other kids
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I fuckin bow to you!!!
I don't trust the government on this issue. Inoculation, forced, on FEMALES as young as 9 to "help save their lives".
Bitches please!
I don't trust this inoculation. where is the inoculation for males to spare them from the risk of prostrate cancer?
I'm tired of us women being USED as medical experiments!
First PJ Show: March 20, 1994 | Ann Arbor | Crisler Arena
what is a montessori class?
im saying you CAN talk to that kid, more so than you can talk to your imaginary friend anyway. a little social interaction is better than none. and currently, schools is the biggest place for kids to get consistent social interaction with other kids.
in any case, this all sounds like an argument for radically rethinking the way our school system is set up and operates. im not sure i see a benefit in mandatory schooling like we have now... it seems kind of a failure. but i hardly think our schools are some elaborate conspiracy designed by exxon-mobil to control the youth of america. they've just lost their effectiveness and become too large and mismanaged to serve the purpose for which they were created.
if they offered one, id be first in line to get it. what dyou think is in it? prude fluid?
Honestly, i don't know what schools are generally like in your neck of the woods, but here, i not only have children in the public schools, i teach in them. My second grade son, when weather permits, has three outside recesses every day! each for at least 15 minutes. Not all schools are like that, i'll admit. Most are one a day for about twenty minutes like you say, but, honestly its school, how much recess do yoo want!! Recess is good and, in fact, very important, but as an experienced professional, i feel that twenty minutes in the middle of the day, especially for intermediate grades (4-6) is adequate. Especially when you consider the day is also broken up with "specials" such as music, art, and P.E. It isn't like they are sitting doing math problems for 6 1/2 hours a day.
And as far as the cafeteria is concerned, they are far from silent. Kids usually only stop talking long enough to take an occasional bite of food. Complain to any teacher, administrator, or cafeteria aid in any of the districts where i live of lunch time being silent, and they'll laugh at you. Literally belly laugh.
I thought I was the only one that felt this way.
Mihi cura futuri.
The elements they speak to me.
http://espn.go.com/espnradiostations/NewYork1050/gallery/35218855.html
so cute they are
There isn't a vaccine for males against prostate cancer because it isn't caused by a virus!!!
The problem with homeschooling, as i see it is that it goes completely unchecked. There is absolutely no way the state (at least, where i live) checks to ensure that homeschooled children are actually being taught anything at all! i see that as a problem. It is true that generally speaking homeschooled children do well academically, i have known personally homeschool parents who, literally do nothing! On top of that, there is no set of credentials that need to be met. None. Many homeschool parents i have met are IMO completely unqualified, and it is a diservice to those children. i would go as far as to call it a form of neglect. i have no problem with people who choose to homeschool, as long as they are qualified, dedicated, and, yes, periodically checked and evaluated by the state for such things as reading and math.
You are, to a degree correct about fundamentalists, being a Christian i have met some that will go as far as condemn me for NOT homeschooling. Pisses me off, really. Whats more is the public schoolls allow homeschool kids to come to school for extracurriculars such as band, or tp play on the sports teams, and thesed individuals who condemn public schools use EVERY one of these opprotunities they can. (i know of a woman, who took her homeschooled daughter to the public school for strings, and demanded to know what kind of homosexual agenda they would be pushing on her daughter! At freaking violin class)!
Edit: i wanted also to mention that i have seen first hand, instances of how SOME homeschooled children suffer socially. Sure missing out on some of the Breakfast Club type crap can arguably be a benefit of homeschooling, but, i have seen instances of homeschool children who are extremely awkward with no social skills. Absolutely no idea how to interact with other children. Homeschool parents need to take extra measures to ensure their children learn social skills and experience quality interaction with a diverse pool of other children, and that doesn't always happen.
alright, let me say this on the note of vaccines, i challenge anyone who is against vaccines and modern medecine to be sent to india or africa, i dare them to go there and come back and say that they're against vaccines.
in india i regularly saw ppl dying in the streets from diseases that could be prevented by vaccines, or easily cured with cheap meds. i saw ppl limping around every day because they had suffered from polio. these were young ppl my age who had had it. at first i didn't recognise the disease, since i was more used to seeing ppl with corrective footwear and a cane, but there they didn't always have shoes and were dragging one or both shrivled legs behind them. i'm happy that i've been vaccinated for everything from the measles to yellow fever, and i'd do it again (and will, when they wear off)
Albert Einstein
if you're going to the extent of checking up on every homeschooled kid, it kinda defeats the purpose of homeschooling. my issue is more with government curriculum standards. honestly, at this point im kinda admitting defeat... but i dont think our kids need more of what the schools teach. do we really need every kid in the country to be able to recite the magna carta? i think this is a big problem... our schools trying to teach WAY too much and most of it being very unecessary. we used to have trades, farming, and apprenticeships for a reason. some people just aren't cut out for pure, abstract academics. trying to force it on people is a huge waste of time and money.
i guess it depends on what state you live in
http://www.hslda.org/laws/
for instance the state i live in requires:
Maintain evidence of regular instruction including a record of subjects taught, activities in which the student and parent engage, a portfolio of the child’s work...
and
Participate in the annual statewide testing program and the Basic Skills Assessment Program
doesn't seem like a parent could get away teaching them nothing. you live in texas, right? they don't have any criteria so i can see how it could happen there and that would be a fault of the state
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Yeah, Deadlee74, almost no cases in women who are not and who have never been sexually active.
Although this is not a guarantee, I believe. Hence the pap smear not being required for women over 70 in Australia providing they are no longer sexually active.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift