it's really scary how many of you know nothing about the dangers of vaccines?it;s scary hoe soulsinging thinks he knows it all and knows jack shit!! except maybe to flatter himself with undeserved praise,over estimating his "intelligence".I WENT TO COLLEGE!big fucking deal!!i'm sure you can drink alot of beer and degrade women.i know college grads flipping burgers,your claim of higher learning is not impressive so put a lid on it.
yeah some of the links are dead,so?go find some info on your own!
but hey soulsinging vaccines ARE good,YOU should go get as many as you can.
Uh, I did find some links. The links you provided not only did not work, but they came from biased sources (you need to look for peer-reviewed studies, not those written in the vein of 'pathetic fallacy'). I provided links that refuted old concerns about the majority of vaccinations folks receive today. Instead of addressing that, you simply choose to insult people without offering any kind of intelligent discourse.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Uh, I did find some links. The links you provided not only did not work, but they came from biased sources (you need to look for peer-reviewed studies, not those written in the vein of 'pathetic fallacy'). I provided links that refuted old concerns about the majority of vaccinations folks receive today. Instead of addressing that, you simply choose to insult people without offering any kind of intelligent discourse.
I was the one being insulted!!,i have the right to defend myself.also the links were mearly a starting point,i didn't say it was the alpha & omega.
and if you think vaccines are a good thing,i'm sorry,you are WRONG.biased sources?yeah anything that is contrary to what YOU believe is biased.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
it's really scary how many of you know nothing about the dangers of vaccines?it;s scary hoe soulsinging thinks he knows it all and knows jack shit!! except maybe to flatter himself with undeserved praise,over estimating his "intelligence".I WENT TO COLLEGE!big fucking deal!!i'm sure you can drink alot of beer and degrade women.i know college grads flipping burgers,your claim of higher learning is not impressive so put a lid on it.
yeah some of the links are dead,so?go find some info on your own!
but hey soulsinging vaccines ARE good,YOU should go get as many as you can.
i dont drink and im in law school. best get your guns together... ill be running for office soon
where did those links come from? like i said... why should i trust that guy and nobody else? what's so great about him that i should take his list of links as evidence that every medical society in the country is crooked?
I am also a teacher in a high school and I do see both sides of the problem arounds schools. There are very good schools and very bad schools. There are good teachers and there are bad teachers. I had very bad teachers when I was in high school and did very poorly. Times are changing and its very encouraging to me to walk back into a school as a teacher and see so many young faces in the hallways. I've observed their classes and they are full of life and imagination, debates about war and life, and interaction. I don't know what the situation is like in the States, but I am definitely optimistic of what our education system can be. Maybe we're all just too young and not cynical or grumpy yet.
As for vaccines, I'm all for them. Great idea and I would love to see that happen here. Similar case her in Vancouver, a Jehova's Witness couple gave birth to sextuplets. After 2 died, because the parents would not allow blood transfusions, the province seized the remaining 4 and gave them blood transfusions to save their lives over the objections of the parents. I believe the health and welfare of the children supercede their parents beliefs.
JamMastaE, you don't have a lot of friends do you? Your problem is that you think you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us but you have no substance. You accused me of being scared during the global warming thread after posting a bunch of cut and paste arguments but after I and some others counter argued you run away because YOU are ignorant but instead like to pretend (or have deceived yourself to think) that you are above everyone else.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
man, did you even learn to read? i said YOU should get your guns so you're ready to start the revolution when the police state comes together. i dont own a gun. never have. never even fired one. dont care to, there's no need.
if you never said that, then explain to me why the FDA, MDA, CDC, and almost every legitimate medical journal all say this vaccine is a good thing, but i should still ignore them all and instead believe the 2 dozen links you posted from some mysterious guy from england?
I am also a teacher in a high school and I do see both sides of the problem arounds schools. There are very good schools and very bad schools. There are good teachers and there are bad teachers. I had very bad teachers when I was in high school and did very poorly. Times are changing and its very encouraging to me to walk back into a school as a teacher and see so many young faces in the hallways. I've observed their classes and they are full of life and imagination, debates about war and life, and interaction. I don't know what the situation is like in the States, but I am definitely optimistic of what our education system can be. Maybe we're all just too young and not cynical or grumpy yet.
As for vaccines, I'm all for them. Great idea and I would love to see that happen here. Similar case her in Vancouver, a Jehova's Witness couple gave birth to sextuplets. After 2 died, because the parents would not allow blood transfusions, the province seized the remaining 4 and gave them blood transfusions to save their lives over the objections of the parents. I believe the health and welfare of the children supercede their parents beliefs.
JamMastaE, you don't have a lot of friends do you? Your problem is that you think you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us but you have no substance. You accused me of being scared during the global warming thread after posting a bunch of cut and paste arguments but after I and some others counter argued you run away because YOU are ignorant but instead like to pretend (or have deceived yourself to think) that you are above everyone else.
bitch please.i didn't run from anything.i have other things to do besides be on this board arguing with knuckle-heads like you!!
sometimes you gotta know when to fold em,in other words,i can scream till i am blue in the face but you won't hear me.you think you already hold the answers.BUT YOU DON'T!! and i AM more enlightened than you,not that i think I'm better than anyone,just more informed.at the end of the day people believe what they want,so i really don't care if you talk shit or attack me.They did the same thing to Jesus when he tried to spread the truth..(NO I'M NOT COMPARING MYSELF TO JESUS)
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
man, did you even learn to read? i said YOU should get your guns so you're ready to start the revolution when the police state comes together. i dont own a gun. never have. never even fired one. dont care to, there's no need.
if you never said that, then explain to me why the FDA, MDA, CDC, and almost every legitimate medical journal all say this vaccine is a good thing, but i should still ignore them all and instead believe the 2 dozen links you posted from some mysterious guy from england?
the FDA!! are you fucking kidding me!!!OMFG.
the fucking crooks that run the FDA now would pass Cyanide.
ever hear of VIOXX????
yeah you can trust the FDA!! NOT!!!
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
hate to diss people on this board but....anyone who thinks forced inoculation is a good thing should get the fuck out of this country and move to fucking china you boot licking,slave mentality,ignorant ass lemming,sheeple mutha fuckers.try doing some fucking research into vaccines and how they have been linked to aids virus(man made),cancer virus, etc.
not to mention how autism has exploded thanks to thimerosal,don't know what that is?i suggest you look it up as well as the 4th amendment of the constitution.
Let's see, the only 'info' you offered was the bit about thimerosal & autism, to which I refuted with several links. Other than that, you came out with quite a string of insults to those who dare to think differently than you.
and if you think vaccines are a good thing,i'm sorry,you are WRONG.biased sources?yeah anything that is contrary to what YOU believe is biased.
I am wrong, huh? hehe. You carelessly called many here 'uneducated' on the subject. If you knew my profession, I don't think you'd be so quick to judgment (not articles based on junk-science and conspiracies). What you need to find is a link to something based on scientific findings. Then we can have a discussion. I take my information from what I have observed clinically and the findings of scientists. Vaccinations are not without side-effects, but your shotty references contain misinformation that could ultimately be dangerous in the larger picture (see my sig....). The autism/HIV concerns have been dispelled. What else to you have?
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Let's see, the only 'info' you offered was the bit about thimerosal & autism, to which I refuted with several links. Other than that, you came out with quite a string of insults to those who dare to think differently than you.
I am wrong, huh? hehe. You carelessly called many here 'uneducated' on the subject. If you knew my profession, I don't think you'd be so quick to judgment (not articles based on junk-science and conspiracies). What you need to find is a link to something based on scientific findings. Then we can have a discussion. I take my information from what I have observed clinically and the findings of scientists. Vaccinations are not without side-effects, but your shotty references contain misinformation that could ultimately be dangerous in the larger picture (see my sig....). The autism/HIV concerns have been dispelled. What else to you have?
how about this,you google "vaccine dangers" and read the hundreds of thousands of articles that explain everything.
now you obviously don't think that big pharma with it's billions would sway Dr.'s/medical mag.s/journals to say what they want?noooo..they are so honest,they wouldn't do that,because this day and age that doesn't happen they are only concerned with your health,not making a buck.yeah your right,dam what was i thinking?
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
bitch please.i didn't run from anything.i have other things to do besides be on this board arguing with knuckle-heads like you!!
sometimes you gotta know when to fold em,in other words,i can scream till i am blue in the face but you won't hear me.you think you already hold the answers.BUT YOU DON'T!! and i AM more enlightened than you,not that i think I'm better than anyone,just more informed.at the end of the day people believe what they want,so i really don't care if you talk shit or attack me.They did the same thing to Jesus when he tried to spread the truth..(NO I'M NOT COMPARING MYSELF TO JESUS)
This stuff writes itself! Dude, you don't know anything about me or anyone else on this board. I don't claim to hold all of the answers but at least I'm willing to share what I do know and discuss where people disagree instead of resorting to insults and "I'm more informed than you" approach while callying everyone who disagrees with you a pseudo-intellectual. Humility is not your strength, and if you ARE indeed so enlightened, than grace us with your bountiful wisdom and be prepared to back up what you say.
how about this,you google "vaccine dangers" and read the hundreds of thousands of articles that explain everything.
now you obviously don't think that big pharma with it's billions would sway Dr.'s/medical mag.s/journals to say what they want?noooo..they are so honest,they wouldn't do that,because this day and age that doesn't happen they are only concerned with your health,not making a buck.yeah your right,dam what was i thinking?
poisoning people will cost them a lot of money. look at what happened to the tobacco companies.
who is John Scudamore? why should i believe him more?
how about this,you google "vaccine dangers" and read the hundreds of thousands of articles that explain everything.
?
This is your problem. But to be fair, this is the problem with alot of people. STAY OFF THE FUCKING INTERNET!! Or a least learn that it is indeed a remarkable tool for sharing information, but it does not discriminate and has no filter. This means it is also a remarkable tool for sharing, distributing, and spreading absolute bullshit. Any jackass can put up a website. People really need to use the intermet carefully and consider their sources.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
how about this,you google "vaccine dangers" and read the hundreds of thousands of articles that explain everything.
I've already stated that I am not interested in 'googling' articles that do not have the scientific data to back it's claims. I am interesting in studies that do nothing but present the scientific findings. I am more interested in drawing my conclusions from the facts, than have someone with an agenda to tell me how I should think. Again, due to my profession, I have access to thousands of peer-review studies on the matter which is a much better resource.
now you obviously don't think that big pharma with it's billions would sway Dr.'s/medical mag.s/journals to say what they want?noooo..they are so honest,they wouldn't do that,because this day and age that doesn't happen they are only concerned with your health,not making a buck.yeah your right,dam what was i thinking?
I do not recall offering an opinion on pharmaceutical companies. That is a whole different matter. Is your problem with vaccinations or perhaps with other medications that treat a host of problems due to the unscrupulous practices of the pharmaceutical companies that make them? Do you take any pharmaceuticals, over the counter or otherwise?
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I've already stated that I am not interested in 'googling' articles that do not have the scientific data to back it's claims. I am interesting in studies that do nothing but present the scientific findings. I am more interested in drawing my conclusions from the facts, than have someone with an agenda to tell me how I should think. Again, due to my profession, I have access to thousands of peer-review studies on the matter which is a much better resource.
I do not recall offering an opinion on pharmaceutical companies. That is a whole different matter. Is your problem with vaccinations or perhaps with other medications that treat a host of problems due to the unscrupulous practices of the pharmaceutical companies that make them? Do you take any pharmaceuticals, over the counter or otherwise?
i try not to take any drugs at all,the occasional cold med.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
While the vaccination program is laudable for prevention purposes, the article doesn't say if there are any sex ed programs for the kids regarding STDs and prevention of disease or pregnancy, so the girls could understand why they are receiving these vaccinations (with their parents' approval).
It seems the easiest solution nowadays is to give the kids a shot or a pill so the grownups won't be bothered with them for a while.
I couldn't find where he discussed vaccinations. Can you tell me where to locate that in the article. Oh, and why should I take the word of a doctor? Didn't you state that doctors are paid off by big business?;)
i try not to take any drugs at all,the occasional cold med.
Those cold medications are manufactured by evil pharmaceutical companies. If you're going to talk the talk....................you know the rest. As unscrupulous as those companies can be, do you concede that they do manufacture drugs that are, indeed, useful, if not, life-depending for people?
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
While the vaccination program is laudable for prevention purposes, the article doesn't say if there are any sex ed programs for the kids regarding STDs and prevention of disease or pregnancy, so the girls could understand why they are receiving these vaccinations (with their parents' approval).
It seems the easiest solution nowadays is to give the kids a shot or a pill so the grownups won't be bothered with them for a while.
true.
plus it doesn't help it's sex,sex,sex everywhere all the time.we live in a modern day Babylon.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
I couldn't find where he discussed vaccinations. Can you tell me where to locate that in the article. Oh, and why should I take the word of a doctor? Didn't you state that doctors are paid off by big business?;)
Those cold medications are manufactured by evil pharmaceutical companies. If you're going to talk the talk....................you know the rest. As unscrupulous as those companies can be, do you concede that they do indeed manufacture drugs that are, indeed, useful, if not, life-depending for people?
yes,I'm not saying EVERYTHING is bad.but an educated mind knows there is a lot to be concerned with.Especially with this latest Bush FDA.my greatest concern is the massive corruption through out our government,it spills over into everything else.add that to the massive lobbying by big pharma and all the politicians with stocks in these companies.do you know what the "freedom health initiative" is?
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
but still if these vaccines prevent one child anywhere in this country from having to live through the shit that i have, it's certainly worthwhile.
if this vaccine can prevent one woman from getting cervical cancer, then it should be given to every little girl
Firstly, I'm not opposed to the vaccine. Secondly, my kids receive vaccines. I think people keep mixing up issues. The efficacy of vaccination is a completely different issue from mandatory, government enforced inoculation.
And the whole "if is saves just one life..." canard drives me batshit. If it saves just one drowning victim, we should have all swimming pools filled in. If it saves just one life, we should lower the speed limit to 20mph on interstates. If it saves just one life we should ban air travel.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
What a shame. This could have been an intelligent discussion about the merits of vaccinations, but to have an intelligent discussion requires that the people on both sides of the debate converse like adults. JamMasta, you can't come here and talk to smart, well-educated people as though they were idiots and expect to have your opinions taken seriously. You are not doing your cause any favors. I agree with some of what you say, particularly about the FDA (although I don't think we can pin this one on Bush, it was bad long before he came along), but your debate style doesn't encourage anyone to listen to you.
And will you PLEASE tell us who John Scudamore is? I googled it, and found an artist and a viscount from the 17th century. I'm thinking neither one is the right guy.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
yes,I'm not saying EVERYTHING is bad.but an educated mind knows there is a lot to be concerned with.Especially with this latest Bush FDA.my greatest concern is the massive corruption through out our government,it spills over into everything else.add that to the massive lobbying by big pharma and all the politicians with stocks in these companies.do you know what the "freedom health initiative" is?
There you go! Now we are making some progress. Now that you admit not ALL doctors & scientists are in the pockets of big business, I'm sure you can also concede that a lot of them are actually concerned about the health of the public. And the majority of them are in agreement that vaccinations are a good thing due to the scientific studies and findings. Now you can maybe take a look at the peer review studies with an open mind.
I'm not going to refute the idea that the pharmaceutical companies are not driven by money and corruption. But don't be opposed to a vaccination that might prevent cancer just because you don't like 'practice' of big business. Like I said earlier, that is an entirely different matter.
Oh, doesn't the freedom health initiative concern the disabled? Why do you bring it up?
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Oh, doesn't the freedom health initiative concern the disabled? Why do you bring it up?
President's Bogus Mental Health Screening Initiative Is a Thinly Veiled Scam to Boost Pharmaceutical Profits
The latest act of state-sponsored medical insanity has been announced by the Bush administration with their so-called New Freedom Commission on Mental Health that plans to conduct mental-health screening on all children and adults in the United States. As people are screened under this plan, they will of course be put on highly-profitable and extremely expensive psychotic drugs and anti-depressant drugs, which are manufactured by the very same companies that have donated heavily to the Bush administration and Bush re-election efforts.
This New Freedom Commission plan is based on the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP), a medication treatment plan that also screened people for mental health problems and prescribed high-profit prescription drugs to them. But the Texas plan has come under great criticism. A whistle-blower named Allen Jones, who was an employee of the Pennsylvania office of the Inspector General, published a document revealing that medical leaders who controlled the medication plan in the state of Pennsylvania received payment from drug companies who stood to benefit from the mental health screening plan.
In response, Allen Jones was, of course, fired. Similarly, the Texas plan has been formulated by drug companies. Allen Jones described the joint effort as "a political/pharmaceutical alliance" that was "poised to consolidate the TMAP effort into a comprehensive national policy to treat mental illness with expensive patented medications of questionable benefits and deadly side effects." So, at first glance, it certainly appears that this is no more than a good old boy strategy for boosting the profits of pharmaceutical companies through political influence -- it's the same old game.
Not surprisingly, an alarming number of the Bush administration's recent regulatory advances have been thinly veiled attempts to promote the profits of the pharmaceutical industry. The so-called Medicare drug discount cards were nothing more than a handout to pharmaceutical companies that created the illusion of discounts, where in reality people could buy drugs at much lower prices by simply shopping around on the internet. They could get them at lower prices still by buying them from Canada or other countries. Similarly, this mental health screening initiative is nothing more than a grand political scam designed to sell prescription drugs that benefit the pockets of companies who have supported the Bush election campaigns.
Just how much support has come from these companies? The Bush administration has very close financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who was appointed by Bush, served as the CEO of one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the United States. George Bush, Sr. was also a member of Eli Lilly's board of directors, and George Bush, Jr. appointed Eli Lilly's Chief Executive Officer to a seat on the Homeland Security Council. In what looks like nothing more than blatant political bribery, Eli Lilly made $1.6 million in political contributions in 2000. Four-fifths of that went to the Republican party and presidential candidate Bush. It is, in fact, the same company that started up the Texas project. And now, many members of the New Freedom Commission have also been found to have ties with pharmaceutical companies and have served on their advisory boards.
Under the Bush administration, the pharmaceutical industry has done extremely well in terms of boosting sales and generating profits. And it looks like the Bush administration is determined to continue the drugging of America, no matter what the cost to American taxpayers. They won't stop, it seems, until every American is dosed up on a dozen simultaneous prescriptions that generate tens of billions of dollars in profits for the pharmaceutical industry each year. Of course, to those who are familiar with the behavior of the Bush administration, none of this comes as much surprise. The Bush administration seems to be willing to engage in any sort of activity, no matter how lacking in ethics or how unfounded, in order to gain more power and enhance the financial position of its supporters. The Bush administration stands for war, for drugs, and for keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. And one of the easiest ways to keep the poor poor is to dose them on high-priced prescription drugs to the point where they can't think straight enough to vote with any measure of intelligence.
Similarly, war is a windfall for companies who manufacture bombs and weapons, and when there's war over oil, as we've seen in Iraq, it also serves the interest of the oil-producers and distributors. All of these industries have close ties to the Bush administration. War industries, big oil, and of course Big Pharma, and all of them are doing extremely well with George Bush in the White House. The problem is that none of these industries actually enhance the lives of human beings. In fact, all of them harm human beings. There's a lot of money changing hands these days, and a lot of it is strongly influenced by the Bush administration, but very little of it actually goes to enhance the quality of life for everyday people.
People don't need mandatory screening for mental health disorders. They don't need to be put on multiple prescription drugs that turn them into zombies and may, in fact, cause them to commit suicide or engage in violent acts. We don't need ten times as many weapons as we have right now, since we already have the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, with enough firepower to destroy the planet a dozen times over. We don't need more bombs, more drugs and more government-mandated health initiatives that masquerade as good science while in reality only offer another financial trap that will push Americans even further into household debt and poverty.
As far as I can tell, the mental illness in this country lives in the White House. If there's any mandatory mental health screening that should be taking place, it should start with the officials running the Bush administration, and then continue on to take a look at the people running the FDA, and those in charge of the pharmaceutical companies. Because from all the available evidence, it appears to me that these people have lost their minds in a mad attempt to generate obscene profits regardless of the cost to human life, individual privacy, and human rights.
Above all, to call this new plan the "New Freedom Commission" is perhaps the ultimate insult to the intelligence of the American people. Beware of any big government mandate that has the word "freedom" in it, because chances are it's more about taking away your freedom than ensuring it. Forcing people to undergo mental health screening is not freedom. Dosing people up with prescription drugs that alter their brain chemistry and take away their normal healthy brain function is not freedom. In fact, it is chemical enslavement, and the perpetrators behind this diabolical plan are truly the enemies to freedom, democracy, and the ideals that America historically stands for. The next thing you know, they're going to be claiming that terrorists are causing mental health disorders in this country, and everybody needs to be screened for mental health disorders as defense against terrorism. Don't be surprised if you hear that initiative launched in the months ahead.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
What a shame. This could have been an intelligent discussion about the merits of vaccinations, but to have an intelligent discussion requires that the people on both sides of the debate converse like adults. JamMasta, you can't come here and talk to smart, well-educated people as though they were idiots and expect to have your opinions taken seriously. You are not doing your cause any favors. I agree with some of what you say, particularly about the FDA (although I don't think we can pin this one on Bush, it was bad long before he came along), but your debate style doesn't encourage anyone to listen to you.
And will you PLEASE tell us who John Scudamore is? I googled it, and found an artist and a viscount from the 17th century. I'm thinking neither one is the right guy.
maybe your not as intelligent as you give yourself credit for.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
President's Bogus Mental Health Screening Initiative Is a Thinly Veiled Scam to Boost Pharmaceutical Profits
The latest act of state-sponsored medical insanity has been announced by the Bush administration with their so-called New Freedom Commission on Mental Health that plans to conduct mental-health screening on all children and adults in the United States. As people are screened under this plan, they will of course be put on highly-profitable and extremely expensive psychotic drugs and anti-depressant drugs, which are manufactured by the very same companies that have donated heavily to the Bush administration and Bush re-election efforts.
This New Freedom Commission plan is based on the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP), a medication treatment plan that also screened people for mental health problems and prescribed high-profit prescription drugs to them. But the Texas plan has come under great criticism. A whistle-blower named Allen Jones, who was an employee of the Pennsylvania office of the Inspector General, published a document revealing that medical leaders who controlled the medication plan in the state of Pennsylvania received payment from drug companies who stood to benefit from the mental health screening plan.
In response, Allen Jones was, of course, fired. Similarly, the Texas plan has been formulated by drug companies. Allen Jones described the joint effort as "a political/pharmaceutical alliance" that was "poised to consolidate the TMAP effort into a comprehensive national policy to treat mental illness with expensive patented medications of questionable benefits and deadly side effects." So, at first glance, it certainly appears that this is no more than a good old boy strategy for boosting the profits of pharmaceutical companies through political influence -- it's the same old game.
Not surprisingly, an alarming number of the Bush administration's recent regulatory advances have been thinly veiled attempts to promote the profits of the pharmaceutical industry. The so-called Medicare drug discount cards were nothing more than a handout to pharmaceutical companies that created the illusion of discounts, where in reality people could buy drugs at much lower prices by simply shopping around on the internet. They could get them at lower prices still by buying them from Canada or other countries. Similarly, this mental health screening initiative is nothing more than a grand political scam designed to sell prescription drugs that benefit the pockets of companies who have supported the Bush election campaigns.
Just how much support has come from these companies? The Bush administration has very close financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who was appointed by Bush, served as the CEO of one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the United States. George Bush, Sr. was also a member of Eli Lilly's board of directors, and George Bush, Jr. appointed Eli Lilly's Chief Executive Officer to a seat on the Homeland Security Council. In what looks like nothing more than blatant political bribery, Eli Lilly made $1.6 million in political contributions in 2000. Four-fifths of that went to the Republican party and presidential candidate Bush. It is, in fact, the same company that started up the Texas project. And now, many members of the New Freedom Commission have also been found to have ties with pharmaceutical companies and have served on their advisory boards.
Under the Bush administration, the pharmaceutical industry has done extremely well in terms of boosting sales and generating profits. And it looks like the Bush administration is determined to continue the drugging of America, no matter what the cost to American taxpayers. They won't stop, it seems, until every American is dosed up on a dozen simultaneous prescriptions that generate tens of billions of dollars in profits for the pharmaceutical industry each year. Of course, to those who are familiar with the behavior of the Bush administration, none of this comes as much surprise. The Bush administration seems to be willing to engage in any sort of activity, no matter how lacking in ethics or how unfounded, in order to gain more power and enhance the financial position of its supporters. The Bush administration stands for war, for drugs, and for keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. And one of the easiest ways to keep the poor poor is to dose them on high-priced prescription drugs to the point where they can't think straight enough to vote with any measure of intelligence.
Similarly, war is a windfall for companies who manufacture bombs and weapons, and when there's war over oil, as we've seen in Iraq, it also serves the interest of the oil-producers and distributors. All of these industries have close ties to the Bush administration. War industries, big oil, and of course Big Pharma, and all of them are doing extremely well with George Bush in the White House. The problem is that none of these industries actually enhance the lives of human beings. In fact, all of them harm human beings. There's a lot of money changing hands these days, and a lot of it is strongly influenced by the Bush administration, but very little of it actually goes to enhance the quality of life for everyday people.
People don't need mandatory screening for mental health disorders. They don't need to be put on multiple prescription drugs that turn them into zombies and may, in fact, cause them to commit suicide or engage in violent acts. We don't need ten times as many weapons as we have right now, since we already have the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, with enough firepower to destroy the planet a dozen times over. We don't need more bombs, more drugs and more government-mandated health initiatives that masquerade as good science while in reality only offer another financial trap that will push Americans even further into household debt and poverty.
As far as I can tell, the mental illness in this country lives in the White House. If there's any mandatory mental health screening that should be taking place, it should start with the officials running the Bush administration, and then continue on to take a look at the people running the FDA, and those in charge of the pharmaceutical companies. Because from all the available evidence, it appears to me that these people have lost their minds in a mad attempt to generate obscene profits regardless of the cost to human life, individual privacy, and human rights.
Above all, to call this new plan the "New Freedom Commission" is perhaps the ultimate insult to the intelligence of the American people. Beware of any big government mandate that has the word "freedom" in it, because chances are it's more about taking away your freedom than ensuring it. Forcing people to undergo mental health screening is not freedom. Dosing people up with prescription drugs that alter their brain chemistry and take away their normal healthy brain function is not freedom. In fact, it is chemical enslavement, and the perpetrators behind this diabolical plan are truly the enemies to freedom, democracy, and the ideals that America historically stands for. The next thing you know, they're going to be claiming that terrorists are causing mental health disorders in this country, and everybody needs to be screened for mental health disorders as defense against terrorism. Don't be surprised if you hear that initiative launched in the months ahead.
The above link is to the article you failed to give credit.
Again, this discussion is about vaccinations, specifically the HPV vaccinations. If you want to debate this topic, start another thread. Again you have failed to answer the questions posed to you.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Comments
Uh, I did find some links. The links you provided not only did not work, but they came from biased sources (you need to look for peer-reviewed studies, not those written in the vein of 'pathetic fallacy'). I provided links that refuted old concerns about the majority of vaccinations folks receive today. Instead of addressing that, you simply choose to insult people without offering any kind of intelligent discourse.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I was the one being insulted!!,i have the right to defend myself.also the links were mearly a starting point,i didn't say it was the alpha & omega.
and if you think vaccines are a good thing,i'm sorry,you are WRONG.biased sources?yeah anything that is contrary to what YOU believe is biased.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
i dont drink and im in law school. best get your guns together... ill be running for office soon
where did those links come from? like i said... why should i trust that guy and nobody else? what's so great about him that i should take his list of links as evidence that every medical society in the country is crooked?
still not debating any of the points he raised... did you even read the links he provided?
As for vaccines, I'm all for them. Great idea and I would love to see that happen here. Similar case her in Vancouver, a Jehova's Witness couple gave birth to sextuplets. After 2 died, because the parents would not allow blood transfusions, the province seized the remaining 4 and gave them blood transfusions to save their lives over the objections of the parents. I believe the health and welfare of the children supercede their parents beliefs.
JamMastaE, you don't have a lot of friends do you? Your problem is that you think you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us but you have no substance. You accused me of being scared during the global warming thread after posting a bunch of cut and paste arguments but after I and some others counter argued you run away because YOU are ignorant but instead like to pretend (or have deceived yourself to think) that you are above everyone else.
i never said that,show me where i said that.
gun grabber,that explains a whole lot.
oh yeah,"from my cold dead hand"
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
man, did you even learn to read? i said YOU should get your guns so you're ready to start the revolution when the police state comes together. i dont own a gun. never have. never even fired one. dont care to, there's no need.
if you never said that, then explain to me why the FDA, MDA, CDC, and almost every legitimate medical journal all say this vaccine is a good thing, but i should still ignore them all and instead believe the 2 dozen links you posted from some mysterious guy from england?
bitch please.i didn't run from anything.i have other things to do besides be on this board arguing with knuckle-heads like you!!
sometimes you gotta know when to fold em,in other words,i can scream till i am blue in the face but you won't hear me.you think you already hold the answers.BUT YOU DON'T!! and i AM more enlightened than you,not that i think I'm better than anyone,just more informed.at the end of the day people believe what they want,so i really don't care if you talk shit or attack me.They did the same thing to Jesus when he tried to spread the truth..(NO I'M NOT COMPARING MYSELF TO JESUS)
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
the FDA!! are you fucking kidding me!!!OMFG.
the fucking crooks that run the FDA now would pass Cyanide.
ever hear of VIOXX????
yeah you can trust the FDA!! NOT!!!
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
hehehe, the irony in this post is simply hilarious. isn't this exactly the sort of thing you hate on "pseudo-intellectuals" for?
Here is your first post in this thread
Let's see, the only 'info' you offered was the bit about thimerosal & autism, to which I refuted with several links. Other than that, you came out with quite a string of insults to those who dare to think differently than you.
I am wrong, huh? hehe. You carelessly called many here 'uneducated' on the subject. If you knew my profession, I don't think you'd be so quick to judgment (not articles based on junk-science and conspiracies). What you need to find is a link to something based on scientific findings. Then we can have a discussion. I take my information from what I have observed clinically and the findings of scientists. Vaccinations are not without side-effects, but your shotty references contain misinformation that could ultimately be dangerous in the larger picture (see my sig....). The autism/HIV concerns have been dispelled. What else to you have?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
ok, that leaves the CDC, the MDA, and a couple hundred medical journals. what about them?
and you still havent told me who John Scudamore is and why i should believe him more.
how about this,you google "vaccine dangers" and read the hundreds of thousands of articles that explain everything.
now you obviously don't think that big pharma with it's billions would sway Dr.'s/medical mag.s/journals to say what they want?noooo..they are so honest,they wouldn't do that,because this day and age that doesn't happen they are only concerned with your health,not making a buck.yeah your right,dam what was i thinking?
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
poisoning people will cost them a lot of money. look at what happened to the tobacco companies.
who is John Scudamore? why should i believe him more?
This is your problem. But to be fair, this is the problem with alot of people. STAY OFF THE FUCKING INTERNET!! Or a least learn that it is indeed a remarkable tool for sharing information, but it does not discriminate and has no filter. This means it is also a remarkable tool for sharing, distributing, and spreading absolute bullshit. Any jackass can put up a website. People really need to use the intermet carefully and consider their sources.
I've already stated that I am not interested in 'googling' articles that do not have the scientific data to back it's claims. I am interesting in studies that do nothing but present the scientific findings. I am more interested in drawing my conclusions from the facts, than have someone with an agenda to tell me how I should think. Again, due to my profession, I have access to thousands of peer-review studies on the matter which is a much better resource.
I do not recall offering an opinion on pharmaceutical companies. That is a whole different matter. Is your problem with vaccinations or perhaps with other medications that treat a host of problems due to the unscrupulous practices of the pharmaceutical companies that make them? Do you take any pharmaceuticals, over the counter or otherwise?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
check out this site,he is a DOCTOR!!
http://www.wildestcolts.com
i try not to take any drugs at all,the occasional cold med.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
It seems the easiest solution nowadays is to give the kids a shot or a pill so the grownups won't be bothered with them for a while.
I couldn't find where he discussed vaccinations. Can you tell me where to locate that in the article. Oh, and why should I take the word of a doctor? Didn't you state that doctors are paid off by big business?;)
Those cold medications are manufactured by evil pharmaceutical companies. If you're going to talk the talk....................you know the rest. As unscrupulous as those companies can be, do you concede that they do manufacture drugs that are, indeed, useful, if not, life-depending for people?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
true.
plus it doesn't help it's sex,sex,sex everywhere all the time.we live in a modern day Babylon.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
It does help. it helps prevent CANCER. Cancer KILLS people.
yes,I'm not saying EVERYTHING is bad.but an educated mind knows there is a lot to be concerned with.Especially with this latest Bush FDA.my greatest concern is the massive corruption through out our government,it spills over into everything else.add that to the massive lobbying by big pharma and all the politicians with stocks in these companies.do you know what the "freedom health initiative" is?
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
Firstly, I'm not opposed to the vaccine. Secondly, my kids receive vaccines. I think people keep mixing up issues. The efficacy of vaccination is a completely different issue from mandatory, government enforced inoculation.
And the whole "if is saves just one life..." canard drives me batshit. If it saves just one drowning victim, we should have all swimming pools filled in. If it saves just one life, we should lower the speed limit to 20mph on interstates. If it saves just one life we should ban air travel.
And will you PLEASE tell us who John Scudamore is? I googled it, and found an artist and a viscount from the 17th century. I'm thinking neither one is the right guy.
There you go! Now we are making some progress. Now that you admit not ALL doctors & scientists are in the pockets of big business, I'm sure you can also concede that a lot of them are actually concerned about the health of the public. And the majority of them are in agreement that vaccinations are a good thing due to the scientific studies and findings. Now you can maybe take a look at the peer review studies with an open mind.
I'm not going to refute the idea that the pharmaceutical companies are not driven by money and corruption. But don't be opposed to a vaccination that might prevent cancer just because you don't like 'practice' of big business. Like I said earlier, that is an entirely different matter.
Oh, doesn't the freedom health initiative concern the disabled? Why do you bring it up?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
President's Bogus Mental Health Screening Initiative Is a Thinly Veiled Scam to Boost Pharmaceutical Profits
The latest act of state-sponsored medical insanity has been announced by the Bush administration with their so-called New Freedom Commission on Mental Health that plans to conduct mental-health screening on all children and adults in the United States. As people are screened under this plan, they will of course be put on highly-profitable and extremely expensive psychotic drugs and anti-depressant drugs, which are manufactured by the very same companies that have donated heavily to the Bush administration and Bush re-election efforts.
This New Freedom Commission plan is based on the Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP), a medication treatment plan that also screened people for mental health problems and prescribed high-profit prescription drugs to them. But the Texas plan has come under great criticism. A whistle-blower named Allen Jones, who was an employee of the Pennsylvania office of the Inspector General, published a document revealing that medical leaders who controlled the medication plan in the state of Pennsylvania received payment from drug companies who stood to benefit from the mental health screening plan.
In response, Allen Jones was, of course, fired. Similarly, the Texas plan has been formulated by drug companies. Allen Jones described the joint effort as "a political/pharmaceutical alliance" that was "poised to consolidate the TMAP effort into a comprehensive national policy to treat mental illness with expensive patented medications of questionable benefits and deadly side effects." So, at first glance, it certainly appears that this is no more than a good old boy strategy for boosting the profits of pharmaceutical companies through political influence -- it's the same old game.
Not surprisingly, an alarming number of the Bush administration's recent regulatory advances have been thinly veiled attempts to promote the profits of the pharmaceutical industry. The so-called Medicare drug discount cards were nothing more than a handout to pharmaceutical companies that created the illusion of discounts, where in reality people could buy drugs at much lower prices by simply shopping around on the internet. They could get them at lower prices still by buying them from Canada or other countries. Similarly, this mental health screening initiative is nothing more than a grand political scam designed to sell prescription drugs that benefit the pockets of companies who have supported the Bush election campaigns.
Just how much support has come from these companies? The Bush administration has very close financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who was appointed by Bush, served as the CEO of one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the United States. George Bush, Sr. was also a member of Eli Lilly's board of directors, and George Bush, Jr. appointed Eli Lilly's Chief Executive Officer to a seat on the Homeland Security Council. In what looks like nothing more than blatant political bribery, Eli Lilly made $1.6 million in political contributions in 2000. Four-fifths of that went to the Republican party and presidential candidate Bush. It is, in fact, the same company that started up the Texas project. And now, many members of the New Freedom Commission have also been found to have ties with pharmaceutical companies and have served on their advisory boards.
Under the Bush administration, the pharmaceutical industry has done extremely well in terms of boosting sales and generating profits. And it looks like the Bush administration is determined to continue the drugging of America, no matter what the cost to American taxpayers. They won't stop, it seems, until every American is dosed up on a dozen simultaneous prescriptions that generate tens of billions of dollars in profits for the pharmaceutical industry each year. Of course, to those who are familiar with the behavior of the Bush administration, none of this comes as much surprise. The Bush administration seems to be willing to engage in any sort of activity, no matter how lacking in ethics or how unfounded, in order to gain more power and enhance the financial position of its supporters. The Bush administration stands for war, for drugs, and for keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. And one of the easiest ways to keep the poor poor is to dose them on high-priced prescription drugs to the point where they can't think straight enough to vote with any measure of intelligence.
Similarly, war is a windfall for companies who manufacture bombs and weapons, and when there's war over oil, as we've seen in Iraq, it also serves the interest of the oil-producers and distributors. All of these industries have close ties to the Bush administration. War industries, big oil, and of course Big Pharma, and all of them are doing extremely well with George Bush in the White House. The problem is that none of these industries actually enhance the lives of human beings. In fact, all of them harm human beings. There's a lot of money changing hands these days, and a lot of it is strongly influenced by the Bush administration, but very little of it actually goes to enhance the quality of life for everyday people.
People don't need mandatory screening for mental health disorders. They don't need to be put on multiple prescription drugs that turn them into zombies and may, in fact, cause them to commit suicide or engage in violent acts. We don't need ten times as many weapons as we have right now, since we already have the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, with enough firepower to destroy the planet a dozen times over. We don't need more bombs, more drugs and more government-mandated health initiatives that masquerade as good science while in reality only offer another financial trap that will push Americans even further into household debt and poverty.
As far as I can tell, the mental illness in this country lives in the White House. If there's any mandatory mental health screening that should be taking place, it should start with the officials running the Bush administration, and then continue on to take a look at the people running the FDA, and those in charge of the pharmaceutical companies. Because from all the available evidence, it appears to me that these people have lost their minds in a mad attempt to generate obscene profits regardless of the cost to human life, individual privacy, and human rights.
Above all, to call this new plan the "New Freedom Commission" is perhaps the ultimate insult to the intelligence of the American people. Beware of any big government mandate that has the word "freedom" in it, because chances are it's more about taking away your freedom than ensuring it. Forcing people to undergo mental health screening is not freedom. Dosing people up with prescription drugs that alter their brain chemistry and take away their normal healthy brain function is not freedom. In fact, it is chemical enslavement, and the perpetrators behind this diabolical plan are truly the enemies to freedom, democracy, and the ideals that America historically stands for. The next thing you know, they're going to be claiming that terrorists are causing mental health disorders in this country, and everybody needs to be screened for mental health disorders as defense against terrorism. Don't be surprised if you hear that initiative launched in the months ahead.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
maybe your not as intelligent as you give yourself credit for.
http://www.infowars.com/print/vaccines/upi.htm
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
You copy & paste very well
http://www.newstarget.com/001688.html
The above link is to the article you failed to give credit.
Again, this discussion is about vaccinations, specifically the HPV vaccinations. If you want to debate this topic, start another thread. Again you have failed to answer the questions posed to you.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
A classic, incredibly ironic response. This, along with the endearing "Your an idiot", get me everytime.