ABC News' George Stephanopoulos reports: If Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain doesn't vote for the Bush administration's $700 billion economic bailout plan, some Republican and Democratic congressional leaders tell ABC News the plan won't pass.
"If McCain doesn't come out for this, it's over," a Top House Republican tells ABC News.
A Democratic leadership source says that White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten has been told that
Democratic votes will not be there if McCain votes no -- that there is no deal if McCain doesn't go along.
McCain, taking questions from the traveling media today for the first time in 40 days, said he doesn't yet know how he will vote on the bailout.
But when he was asked by ABC News' Ron Claiborne what he would do if the fate of the bill was in his hands, he said Senate Democrats should not use his vote as the determining factor on the success of the bill.
"This issue should be - and their vote should be determined in how we can resolve this crisis and get America going again," McCain said. "This is a huge crisis. We know, in the words of many experts and mine, this is the greatest financial crisis since World War II. So to somehow, for the Democrats to say that their vote is going to be gauged on my vote frankly doesn't do them a great deal of credit.
"Their first and only priority should be making sure this economy recovers and get back on our feet again," McCain said.
McCain has expressed concerns about Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's plan, which would amount to costing the American taxpayer two Iraq wars.
The Republican presidential candidate has suggested the original proposal lacks sufficient oversight, and he has said whatever plan emerges should protect family savings, homes, and student loans, and should eliminate obscene CEO compensation packages.
McCain said this week that any company that receives government aid should not be compensated more than $400,000 -- the highest-paid government employee.
McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds told ABC News' Jake Tapper that McCain has not made a decision one way or another.
"John McCain has been very clear that he has certain reservations about the details of the agreement that has been released at last notice," Bounds said. "There is no final agreement to review, but when there is John McCain will weigh in responsibly and appropriately."
Administration officials went to Capitol Hill Tuesday to urge Congress to pass the bailout package quickly, arguing the nation's economy is teetering on the brink of a major recession.
Some senior Democrats on Capitol Hill have voiced concern that McCain will continue to oppose the Bush administration's plan as a way to position himself as a critic of Wall Street and the Bush Administration.
If McCain doesn't vote for the legislation, other Republicans might follow suit, leaving the Democratic-led majority to fight in Congress to pass the risky bailout plan.
However a Democratic congressional leadership source tells ABC News' Jake Tapper that Paulson went so far as to assure Democratic leaders that McCain "won't be a problem" -- in other words that McCain will vote for the proposal.
look, this is all a ploy by mccain, pure and simple. maybe he has forgotten about, oh i don't know, FUCKING PLANES. get on a plane, go to the debate, get your ass back on a plane and get back to DC.
everyone is dancing around the 500lb gorilla in the room... so i will say it
McCain is 72 years old... lets be honest... at 72 how much running around can you handle? debating massive bailiut bills during the day and then flying 1000 miles to debate to a live TV audience?... how does anyone seriously expect a 75 year old man to keep up with the HECTIC day to day schedule of a President... i know i wont be able to when i am 75, thats for sure
if these mccain ticket wins we are FUCKED royally... fo SO MANY reasons
it's an assumption. if it came down to having to cancel ONE debate out of the four, which one would be canceled? there's a really good chance that it would be the VP debate.
Why on Earth would McCain want to cancel the VP debate? Palin remains his best card ... they want her on national television ... with Biden alternately looking like a bully and a fool. Hell, Biden disagrees with Obama so much, he'd probably end up agreeing with Palin by the end of the night.
The VP debate and the foreign policy debate remain McCain's best remaining options for making headway in the race.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I just never thought I'd see the day when a U.S. Senator would get shit for, you know, wanting to go to to the U.S. Capitol and conduct business. Certainly, this is a rational thought for a person to have.
A debate (and it's just a debate) can be rescheduled.
A crisis cannot.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I just never thought I'd see the day when a U.S. Senator would get shit for, you know, wanting to go to to the U.S. Capitol and conduct business. Certainly, this is a rational thought for a person to have.
A debate (and it's just a debate) can be rescheduled.
A crisis cannot.
I see it as he can't do two things at once....It's not like the can suspend being president when the going gets tough...
or are you ok with that sort of bushlike leadership...?
I just never thought I'd see the day when a U.S. Senator would get shit for, you know, wanting to go to to the U.S. Capitol and conduct business. Certainly, this is a rational thought for a person to have.
A debate (and it's just a debate) can be rescheduled.
A crisis cannot.
The problem is that it looks like a deal will be reached soon anyway. What is he going to storm into the Capitol and demand a bill be passed the moment he arrives? I'm sorry, but he is running scared at this point. I only hope that people see it for what it is, more political maneuvering on the part of someone who claims to be a "reform" candidate.
He doesn't even serve on any of the committees where this bill is being negotiated. Therefore, even if he is there, he won't be directly participating in the discussions over what to include in the legislation.
Obama and McCain will be meeting with Bush tonight anyway, I think this will negate any advantage McCain may have sought over being in DC over the next day or two. They will both be seen as striving to help the situation, but McCain will have demonstrated that he can only handle one problem at a time, while Obama can tackle multiple issues at once. That is something we need in a leader.
I only hope that the American people see it the same way I do. Who knows, it could work for McCain, but I doubt it.
I just never thought I'd see the day when a U.S. Senator would get shit for, you know, wanting to go to to the U.S. Capitol and conduct business. Certainly, this is a rational thought for a person to have.
A debate (and it's just a debate) can be rescheduled.
A crisis cannot.
he's doing the same thing that he's bashed other senators for doing in years past- showing up like some superhero after everyone else has already been there, doing the heavy lifting. all he needs is a cape.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
i also don't like both people, but i don't agree with Bill bennett. its not that teh senate can't handle this but i would want my next president to be there. you know, do you remember back to 911 people complained that Bush took this amount of time to leave that school. Hell even Michael Moore did it in his movie. but in reality what could Bush have done at that moment in reality. the complaint that i agree with with is that he was teh president and people had to feel that he was working on it. that is what i want Obama and McCain to do. give peopel the confidences that teh next president is going to be there when the times are rough. is that stupid maybe but i have only had a pot of coffee right now.
I agree that we need to see both of these men working on it and don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing McCain for going to Washington, nor should he, but in the same sense this can be worked on from a remote location and that is what Obama is doing. You can both work on the problem and still stand before the nation to debate your opponent. I'm of the belief that having both of these men stand before the nation to discuss the issue is a good way of restoring some confidence.
As far as people criticizing Bush that was just partisan hackery. What was he supposed to do, if the nation is under attack there are protocols that MUST be followed and securing the president's safety is first and foremost.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I just never thought I'd see the day when a U.S. Senator would get shit for, you know, wanting to go to to the U.S. Capitol and conduct business. Certainly, this is a rational thought for a person to have.
A debate (and it's just a debate) can be rescheduled.
A crisis cannot.
Again.
What can McCain possible offer?
What good is his presence going to do?
His own party cant' stand him. It's not like he's going to get people behind this bill.
Furthermore...where was he all this time? Before last week he was against imposing restrictions on Big Business. Up until last week this tool was out there babbling about how the "Fundementals of the Economy were Strong".
For Christ Sakes... He's already flat out told us that he "Knows very Little about the Economy".
Why not go through with the debate?
How about we change the platform of this debate from Foreign Policy...to talking about the Economy?
Let's get both Obama and McCain up there and talk about what they are going to do to solve this problem.
Let's see who's got the plan.
Instead of this Grand Standing Hail Mary Hoover Manuever that he's trying to pull right now.
Lay it out John
Give it to us
What's your Plan?
He's nothing but a chickenshit and he's running from this debate because he knows he's gonna get destroyed.
I see it as he can't do two things at once....It's not like the can suspend being president when the going gets tough...
or are you ok with that sort of bushlike leadership...?
Dude ... HE'S NOT PRESIDENT NOW ... He's in the Senate. I want him to do his fucking job. Not the job he might have in several months. This whole line of reasoning is just fucking stupid.
The same people who bitch about Bush spending time in Crawford -- because apparently, you can't get any work done unless you're in D.C. -- are now telling a sitting Sentor he should sit out debate on the biggest vote of his entire career -- so he can go debate some other schmuck on a completely unrelated topic?
Where was Obama's gung-ho willingness to debate back in June, when McCain was offering to debate him any time, any where?
I didn't write the text that follows. I found it on another web site. But it kind of sums up how I feel on this issue:
"McCain looks like a decisive man of action and Obama looks like a guy who prefers to vote "present" in the midst of a crisis.
"Obama himself declared that the country may be on the verge of the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression.Yet instead of taking just 24-48 hours to tend to his day job and deal with the largest piece of legislation in U.S. history he insists on having a debate on a wholly unrelated topic, on a Friday night no less. This from a candidate who couldn't be bothered to debate in July and August, when nothing of great urgency was going on in the senate.
"The debate will still take place — either Friday or a few days later. Nothing will be lost if there's a slight delay after two insufferable years of campaigning. But time is of the essence as concerns the bailout. And while the presence of one or two senators may not have a great impact on, say, senate legislation designating Oct. 16 National Bosses' Day, the absence of two senators on a bill of this magnitude is gross dereliction of duty — especially when one of the two will be charged with executing it.
"This is a titanic mess. This is the time for serious people to earn their pay. It's a time for adults in Washington. There will be plenty of time to return to the sandbox."
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
How is McCain dropping what he is doing and going to do his job Bush like?
This has got to be good
he can't do two things at once...much like bushy...katrina-bushy couldn't stop what he was doing to address the crisis...this economic meltdown-took bushy 9 days to speak to the public in a national forum....
bottom line: McCain has shown he can't do two difficult things at once...he's cutting and running from the campaign....not very presidential at all...
was that good enough...? I'm guessing you say "no"...
I see it as he can't do two things at once....It's not like the can suspend being president when the going gets tough...
or are you ok with that sort of bushlike leadership...?
Dude ... HE'S NOT PRESIDENT NOW ... He's in the Senate. I want him to do his fucking job. Not the job he might have in several months. This whole line of reasoning is just fucking stupid.
The same people who bitch about Bush spending time in Crawford -- because apparently, you can't get any work done unless you're in D.C. -- are now telling a sitting Sentor he should sit out debate on the biggest vote of his entire career -- so he can go debate some other schmuck on a completely unrelated topic?
Where was Obama's gung-ho willingness to debate back in June, when McCain was offering to debate him any time, any where?
I didn't write the text that follows. I found it on another web site. But it kind of sums up how I feel on this issue, probably better than I could:
McCain looks like a decisive man of action and Obama looks like a guy who prefers to vote "present" in the midst of a crisis.
"Obama himself declared that the country may be on the verge of the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression.Yet instead of taking just 24-48 hours to tend to his day job and deal with the largest piece of legislation in U.S. history he insists on having a debate on a wholly unrelated topic, on a Friday night no less. This from a candidate who couldn't be bothered to debate in July and August, when nothing of great urgency was going on in the senate.
"The debate will still take place — either Friday or a few days later. Nothing will be lost if there's a slight delay after two insufferable years of campaigning. But time is of the essence as concerns the bailout. And while the presence of one or two senators may not have a great impact on, say, senate legislation designating Oct. 16 National Bosses' Day, the absence of two senators on a bill of this magnitude is gross dereliction of duty — especially when one of the two will be charged with executing it.
"This is a titanic mess. This is the time for serious people to earn their pay. It's a time for adults in Washington. There will be plenty of time to return to the sandbox.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
he can't do two things at once...much like bushy...katrina-bushy couldn't stop what he was doing to address the crisis...this economic meltdown-took bushy 9 days to speak to the public in a national forum....
bottom line: McCain has shown he can't do two difficult things at once...he's cutting and running from the campaign....not very presidential at all...
was that good enough...? I'm guessing you say "no"...
I know I've already replied to you once. I'm replying again. Because I find your argument simply stunning.
Sure, he CAN do two things at once. But why force him do so unneccesarily? Why is it so GODDAMNED important to have the debate at 9 p.m. on Friday night? What's so magical about that date and time?
It can't be postponed, at all, so these guys can fucking get to work instead of going on with the dog-and-pony jackoff show that are the debates? Seriously?
I swear to God, I don't know what to think about America anymore. Our priorities are all fucked up. Heaven forbid we disrupt the prime time TV schedule to haul the economy back from the brink of collapse ...
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Dude ... HE'S NOT PRESIDENT NOW ... He's in the Senate. I want him to do his fucking job. Not the job he might have in several months. This whole line of reasoning is just fucking stupid.
The same people who bitch about Bush spending time in Crawford -- because apparently, you can't get any work done unless you're in D.C. -- are now telling a sitting Sentor he should sit out debate on the biggest vote of his entire career -- so he can go debate some other schmuck on a completely unrelated topic?
Where was Obama's gung-ho willingness to debate back in June, when McCain was offering to debate him any time, any where?
I didn't write the text that follows. I found it on another web site. But it kind of sums up how I feel on this issue:
"McCain looks like a decisive man of action and Obama looks like a guy who prefers to vote "present" in the midst of a crisis.
"Obama himself declared that the country may be on the verge of the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression.Yet instead of taking just 24-48 hours to tend to his day job and deal with the largest piece of legislation in U.S. history he insists on having a debate on a wholly unrelated topic, on a Friday night no less. This from a candidate who couldn't be bothered to debate in July and August, when nothing of great urgency was going on in the senate.
"The debate will still take place — either Friday or a few days later. Nothing will be lost if there's a slight delay after two insufferable years of campaigning. But time is of the essence as concerns the bailout. And while the presence of one or two senators may not have a great impact on, say, senate legislation designating Oct. 16 National Bosses' Day, the absence of two senators on a bill of this magnitude is gross dereliction of duty — especially when one of the two will be charged with executing it.
"This is a titanic mess. This is the time for serious people to earn their pay. It's a time for adults in Washington. There will be plenty of time to return to the sandbox."
the fucker hasn't shown up the vote in MONTHS....MONTHS....I'll say it again, MONTHS....suddenly, he thinks he's the fucking savior...when in reality, by his own admission, has no clue about the economy...
if he's such a strong leader, he'd be able to cover two things at once...I suppose when my car breaks down, I suspend all of my other duties until I fix it...or I can suck it up, get a ride to work, walk, or take the bus to take care of my responsibilities....this guy wants to be leader of the free world, yet, he can focus on two things at once...
he looks like a big pussy who can't take the heat....
by the way, where did you get that little write-up...which website...? I'm just curious....
McCain walking away from the campaign trail and debate leaves a lot of republicans and independents having to rely only on a campaign spokesperson or Obama. Those republicans and those independents will be listening to Obama. This is a very bad strategy for the McCain campaign, especially since Palin can't filll the gap of McCain's absence on this matter, even with her so called executive experience.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Dude ... HE'S NOT PRESIDENT NOW ... He's in the Senate. I want him to do his fucking job. Not the job he might have in several months. This whole line of reasoning is just fucking stupid.
The same people who bitch about Bush spending time in Crawford -- because apparently, you can't get any work done unless you're in D.C. -- are now telling a sitting Sentor he should sit out debate on the biggest vote of his entire career -- so he can go debate some other schmuck on a completely unrelated topic?
Where was Obama's gung-ho willingness to debate back in June, when McCain was offering to debate him any time, any where?
I didn't write the text that follows. I found it on another web site. But it kind of sums up how I feel on this issue:
"McCain looks like a decisive man of action and Obama looks like a guy who prefers to vote "present" in the midst of a crisis.
"Obama himself declared that the country may be on the verge of the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression.Yet instead of taking just 24-48 hours to tend to his day job and deal with the largest piece of legislation in U.S. history he insists on having a debate on a wholly unrelated topic, on a Friday night no less. This from a candidate who couldn't be bothered to debate in July and August, when nothing of great urgency was going on in the senate.
"The debate will still take place — either Friday or a few days later. Nothing will be lost if there's a slight delay after two insufferable years of campaigning. But time is of the essence as concerns the bailout. And while the presence of one or two senators may not have a great impact on, say, senate legislation designating Oct. 16 National Bosses' Day, the absence of two senators on a bill of this magnitude is gross dereliction of duty — especially when one of the two will be charged with executing it.
"This is a titanic mess. This is the time for serious people to earn their pay. It's a time for adults in Washington. There will be plenty of time to return to the sandbox."
The debate is important. I'm not taking anything away from this vote...but there is nothing that either Obama or McCain can do in DC.
There is 24 hours in this day...and if either man is fit to be Prez than perhaps they should learn that they're not going to get much sleep for several years if they are elected.
Both Obama and McCain can do their part in this. They don't have to go to Washington to help out.
Like I said above....Change the debate to a discussion on the Economy.
Let's hear what both men plan on doing.
Let them debate about it.
McCain hasn't done his Senator duty for the last 2 years. Either has Obama.
I know I've already replied to you once. I'm replying again. Because I find your argument simply stunning.
Sure, he CAN do two things at once. But why do so unneccsarily? Why is it so GODDAMNED important to have the debate at 9 p.m. on Friday night? What's so magical about that time?
It can't be postponed, at all, so these guys can fucking get to work instead of going on with the dog-and-pony jackoff show that are the debates? Seriously?
I swear to God, I don't know what to think about America anymore. Our priorities are all fucked up. Heaven forbid we disrupt the prime time TV schedule to haul the economy back from the brink of collapse ...
5 and a half million dollars will be flushed down the toilet...
yeah, a drop in the bucket, right...so much for fiscal responsibility...
I see you don't address the fact he can't do two things at once....nice...:rolleyes:
His job as a senator who isn't on the committees involved is to VOTE on the issue, not be involved directly in the negotiating.
Obama has said that he will cast a vote on the legislation, as I'm sure will McCain. That is all that they need to do to be fulfilling their job description.
Do you think that they just have all 100 senators and 435 representatives in a room screaming at each other over what needs to be done? McCain is just going to enter the room, and all will be right with the world?
Give me a break. This is a political move entirely.
All reports indicate that Congress is making good progress without McCain or Obama's direct help. Other than casting a vote on the issue, I think their presence cannot possibly help.
he's doing the same thing that he's bashed other senators for doing in years past- showing up like some superhero after everyone else has already been there, doing the heavy lifting. all he needs is a cape.
Except, you know, folks in Congress asked him back. They basically sent out a giant bat signal.
I mean, are we really going to bash a senator for wanting to do his job? Really?
I mean, I really am flabbergasted at the reaction from some of you.
If you want to be cynical, and think of this only as a political ploy, that's fine. I understand that response, even if I don't neccesarily agree with it.
It's the pure outrage that I don't understand. As if it completely unreasonable for a Senator to want to be in the Senate for a debate/vote of this magnitude ...
Call me crazy, but I find that desire to be perfectly reasonable.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Except, you know, folks in Congress asked him back. They basically sent out a giant bat signal.
I mean, are we really going to bash a senator for wanting to do his job? Really?
I mean, I really am flabbergasted at the reaction from some of you.
If you want to be cynical, and think of this only as a political ploy, that's fine. I understand that response, even if I don't neccesarily agree with it.
It's the pure outrage that I don't understand. As if it completely unreasonable for a Senator to want to be in the Senate for a debate/vote of this magnitude ...
Call me crazy, but I find that desire to be perfectly reasonable.
no one is bashing him for not doing his job as a senator...I'm bashing him because he can't focus on two things at once....do you understand...?
and just because you claim the debate is "unnecessary", it may come as a surprise, not everyone feels that way....:eek:
His job as a senator who isn't on the committees involved is to VOTE on the issue, not be involved directly in the negotiating.
Obama has said that he will cast a vote on the legislation, as I'm sure will McCain. That is all that they need to do to be fulfilling their job description.
Do you think that they just have all 100 senators and 435 representatives in a room screaming at each other over what needs to be done? McCain is just going to enter the room, and all will be right with the world?
Give me a break. This is a political move entirely.
All reports indicate that Congress is making good progress without McCain or Obama's direct help. Other than casting a vote on the issue, I think their presence cannot possibly help.
I've said this before on this thread ... but McCain, for all the faults you (and probably I) think he has, is one of the most respected voices on both sides of the aisle in the Senate. He would be one of the people most likely to be able to bring people together on a compromise, and to do it quickly.
There's a reason some Senators (and Paulson) are saying this bailout is doomed to failure without McCain.
I didn't want to make this thread too anti-Obama, but fuck it: If nobody is clamoring for Obama to come back and help fix this, as they were for McCain, that should probably tell you something about Obama's standing in the Senate. Nobody gives a fuck about what he has to say. He's apparently completely unneccessary when it comes to resolving the biggest issue of the day.
And he wants to be president?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
the fucker hasn't shown up the vote in MONTHS....MONTHS....I'll say it again, MONTHS....suddenly, he thinks he's the fucking savior...when in reality, by his own admission, has no clue about the economy...
if he's such a strong leader, he'd be able to cover two things at once...I suppose when my car breaks down, I suspend all of my other duties until I fix it...or I can suck it up, get a ride to work, walk, or take the bus to take care of my responsibilities....this guy wants to be leader of the free world, yet, he can focus on two things at once...
he looks like a big pussy who can't take the heat....
by the way, where did you get that little write-up...which website...? I'm just curious....
Did you read the article written by that noted GOP sympathizer George Stephanopoulos on Tuesday that I posted earlier?
McCain's vote is the key vote in this bailout and if my decision were the key vote in it I'd sure as anything want to make sure I know firsthand what I'm voting for and not depend on my subordinates.
What can McCain possible offer?
What good is his presence going to do?
His own party cant' stand him. It's not like he's going to get people behind this bill.
Furthermore...where was he all this time? Before last week he was against imposing restrictions on Big Business. Up until last week this tool was out there babbling about how the "Fundementals of the Economy were Strong".
For Christ Sakes... He's already flat out told us that he "Knows very Little about the Economy".
Why not go through with the debate?
How about we change the platform of this debate from Foreign Policy...to talking about the Economy?
Let's get both Obama and McCain up there and talk about what they are going to do to solve this problem.
Let's see who's got the plan.
Instead of this Grand Standing Hail Mary Hoover Manuever that he's trying to pull right now.
Lay it out John
Give it to us
What's your Plan?
He's nothing but a chickenshit and he's running from this debate because he knows he's gonna get destroyed.
have you read any of the post here. Mccain or Obama is going to be the president, don't you think that they should be there for this.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Except, you know, folks in Congress asked him back. They basically sent out a giant bat signal.
I mean, are we really going to bash a senator for wanting to do his job? Really?
I mean, I really am flabbergasted at the reaction from some of you.
If you want to be cynical, and think of this only as a political ploy, that's fine. I understand that response, even if I don't neccesarily agree with it.
It's the pure outrage that I don't understand. As if it completely unreasonable for a Senator to want to be in the Senate for a debate/vote of this magnitude ...
Call me crazy, but I find that desire to be perfectly reasonable.
Once again...Does McCain have to go to Washington to cast his vote? He's been absent from voting for everything else since he started running for President.
What will his presence do in DC? It's not like McCain holds the key to solving this problem nor the presence to sway the vote in either direction.
The man isn't apart of any commitee. He offers no insight.
This pure political posturing and nothing else.
The point is the debate and the campaign can go on. Neither candidate has to put anything on hold to vote on this fucking bill. It's absurd to think that either Obama or McCain have to put anything on hold for this.
This debate is important. It's not just some prime time bullshit show.
They should change the platform of this debate to reflect the current situation.
Right now America is looking to McCain and Obama to give some answers.
Both men can do best for the country by getting up there and laying it on the line what they are going to do when they are President to solve this economic crisis.
It's time to hear their plans
It's time to hear them debate on the issues that they are going to face.
Do not downgrade this because it is VERY IMPORTANT.
McCain just looks like a chickenshit right now. He's using this vote to further his Political aspirations. It's so obvious and it's an insult to us all.
have you read any of the post here. Mccain or Obama is going to be the president, don't you think that they should be there for this.
Exactly. If I'm Obama or McCain, I'm going to be in charge of this massive monstrosity of program beginning in January. And, for better or worse, my job performance is going to be judged in part by how it goes.
If you want to have any control over how it goes down, and how the program is shaped and implemented, now is the time. January is too late.
Or, we could all go to Mississippi and spent two hours repeating the same talking points we've been regurgitating for two years.
You make the call.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
McCain's vote is the key vote in this bailout and if my decision were the key vote in it I'd sure as anything want to make sure I know firsthand what I'm voting for and not depend on my subordinates.
Someone tell George that this Bailout is going to pass with or without McCain's vote.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Comments
Stephanopoulos: McCain Holds Key to Administration's Bailout Passage on Capitol Hill
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/stephanopoulo-4.html
ABC News' George Stephanopoulos reports: If Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain doesn't vote for the Bush administration's $700 billion economic bailout plan, some Republican and Democratic congressional leaders tell ABC News the plan won't pass.
"If McCain doesn't come out for this, it's over," a Top House Republican tells ABC News.
A Democratic leadership source says that White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten has been told that
Democratic votes will not be there if McCain votes no -- that there is no deal if McCain doesn't go along.
McCain, taking questions from the traveling media today for the first time in 40 days, said he doesn't yet know how he will vote on the bailout.
But when he was asked by ABC News' Ron Claiborne what he would do if the fate of the bill was in his hands, he said Senate Democrats should not use his vote as the determining factor on the success of the bill.
"This issue should be - and their vote should be determined in how we can resolve this crisis and get America going again," McCain said. "This is a huge crisis. We know, in the words of many experts and mine, this is the greatest financial crisis since World War II. So to somehow, for the Democrats to say that their vote is going to be gauged on my vote frankly doesn't do them a great deal of credit.
"Their first and only priority should be making sure this economy recovers and get back on our feet again," McCain said.
McCain has expressed concerns about Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke's plan, which would amount to costing the American taxpayer two Iraq wars.
The Republican presidential candidate has suggested the original proposal lacks sufficient oversight, and he has said whatever plan emerges should protect family savings, homes, and student loans, and should eliminate obscene CEO compensation packages.
McCain said this week that any company that receives government aid should not be compensated more than $400,000 -- the highest-paid government employee.
McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds told ABC News' Jake Tapper that McCain has not made a decision one way or another.
"John McCain has been very clear that he has certain reservations about the details of the agreement that has been released at last notice," Bounds said. "There is no final agreement to review, but when there is John McCain will weigh in responsibly and appropriately."
Administration officials went to Capitol Hill Tuesday to urge Congress to pass the bailout package quickly, arguing the nation's economy is teetering on the brink of a major recession.
Some senior Democrats on Capitol Hill have voiced concern that McCain will continue to oppose the Bush administration's plan as a way to position himself as a critic of Wall Street and the Bush Administration.
If McCain doesn't vote for the legislation, other Republicans might follow suit, leaving the Democratic-led majority to fight in Congress to pass the risky bailout plan.
However a Democratic congressional leadership source tells ABC News' Jake Tapper that Paulson went so far as to assure Democratic leaders that McCain "won't be a problem" -- in other words that McCain will vote for the proposal.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
everyone is dancing around the 500lb gorilla in the room... so i will say it
McCain is 72 years old... lets be honest... at 72 how much running around can you handle? debating massive bailiut bills during the day and then flying 1000 miles to debate to a live TV audience?... how does anyone seriously expect a 75 year old man to keep up with the HECTIC day to day schedule of a President... i know i wont be able to when i am 75, thats for sure
if these mccain ticket wins we are FUCKED royally... fo SO MANY reasons
Why on Earth would McCain want to cancel the VP debate? Palin remains his best card ... they want her on national television ... with Biden alternately looking like a bully and a fool. Hell, Biden disagrees with Obama so much, he'd probably end up agreeing with Palin by the end of the night.
The VP debate and the foreign policy debate remain McCain's best remaining options for making headway in the race.
for the least they could possibly do
"John McCain ... a maverick would rather save the economy than win an election."
A debate (and it's just a debate) can be rescheduled.
A crisis cannot.
for the least they could possibly do
I see it as he can't do two things at once....It's not like the can suspend being president when the going gets tough...
or are you ok with that sort of bushlike leadership...?
~David Letterman
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
The problem is that it looks like a deal will be reached soon anyway. What is he going to storm into the Capitol and demand a bill be passed the moment he arrives? I'm sorry, but he is running scared at this point. I only hope that people see it for what it is, more political maneuvering on the part of someone who claims to be a "reform" candidate.
He doesn't even serve on any of the committees where this bill is being negotiated. Therefore, even if he is there, he won't be directly participating in the discussions over what to include in the legislation.
Obama and McCain will be meeting with Bush tonight anyway, I think this will negate any advantage McCain may have sought over being in DC over the next day or two. They will both be seen as striving to help the situation, but McCain will have demonstrated that he can only handle one problem at a time, while Obama can tackle multiple issues at once. That is something we need in a leader.
I only hope that the American people see it the same way I do. Who knows, it could work for McCain, but I doubt it.
he's doing the same thing that he's bashed other senators for doing in years past- showing up like some superhero after everyone else has already been there, doing the heavy lifting. all he needs is a cape.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
I agree that we need to see both of these men working on it and don't get me wrong I'm not criticizing McCain for going to Washington, nor should he, but in the same sense this can be worked on from a remote location and that is what Obama is doing. You can both work on the problem and still stand before the nation to debate your opponent. I'm of the belief that having both of these men stand before the nation to discuss the issue is a good way of restoring some confidence.
As far as people criticizing Bush that was just partisan hackery. What was he supposed to do, if the nation is under attack there are protocols that MUST be followed and securing the president's safety is first and foremost.
Again.
What can McCain possible offer?
What good is his presence going to do?
His own party cant' stand him. It's not like he's going to get people behind this bill.
Furthermore...where was he all this time? Before last week he was against imposing restrictions on Big Business. Up until last week this tool was out there babbling about how the "Fundementals of the Economy were Strong".
For Christ Sakes... He's already flat out told us that he "Knows very Little about the Economy".
Why not go through with the debate?
How about we change the platform of this debate from Foreign Policy...to talking about the Economy?
Let's get both Obama and McCain up there and talk about what they are going to do to solve this problem.
Let's see who's got the plan.
Instead of this Grand Standing Hail Mary Hoover Manuever that he's trying to pull right now.
Lay it out John
Give it to us
What's your Plan?
He's nothing but a chickenshit and he's running from this debate because he knows he's gonna get destroyed.
Dude ... HE'S NOT PRESIDENT NOW ... He's in the Senate. I want him to do his fucking job. Not the job he might have in several months. This whole line of reasoning is just fucking stupid.
The same people who bitch about Bush spending time in Crawford -- because apparently, you can't get any work done unless you're in D.C. -- are now telling a sitting Sentor he should sit out debate on the biggest vote of his entire career -- so he can go debate some other schmuck on a completely unrelated topic?
Where was Obama's gung-ho willingness to debate back in June, when McCain was offering to debate him any time, any where?
I didn't write the text that follows. I found it on another web site. But it kind of sums up how I feel on this issue:
"McCain looks like a decisive man of action and Obama looks like a guy who prefers to vote "present" in the midst of a crisis.
"Obama himself declared that the country may be on the verge of the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression.Yet instead of taking just 24-48 hours to tend to his day job and deal with the largest piece of legislation in U.S. history he insists on having a debate on a wholly unrelated topic, on a Friday night no less. This from a candidate who couldn't be bothered to debate in July and August, when nothing of great urgency was going on in the senate.
"The debate will still take place — either Friday or a few days later. Nothing will be lost if there's a slight delay after two insufferable years of campaigning. But time is of the essence as concerns the bailout. And while the presence of one or two senators may not have a great impact on, say, senate legislation designating Oct. 16 National Bosses' Day, the absence of two senators on a bill of this magnitude is gross dereliction of duty — especially when one of the two will be charged with executing it.
"This is a titanic mess. This is the time for serious people to earn their pay. It's a time for adults in Washington. There will be plenty of time to return to the sandbox."
for the least they could possibly do
he can't do two things at once...much like bushy...katrina-bushy couldn't stop what he was doing to address the crisis...this economic meltdown-took bushy 9 days to speak to the public in a national forum....
bottom line: McCain has shown he can't do two difficult things at once...he's cutting and running from the campaign....not very presidential at all...
was that good enough...? I'm guessing you say "no"...
Dude ... HE'S NOT PRESIDENT NOW ... He's in the Senate. I want him to do his fucking job. Not the job he might have in several months. This whole line of reasoning is just fucking stupid.
The same people who bitch about Bush spending time in Crawford -- because apparently, you can't get any work done unless you're in D.C. -- are now telling a sitting Sentor he should sit out debate on the biggest vote of his entire career -- so he can go debate some other schmuck on a completely unrelated topic?
Where was Obama's gung-ho willingness to debate back in June, when McCain was offering to debate him any time, any where?
I didn't write the text that follows. I found it on another web site. But it kind of sums up how I feel on this issue, probably better than I could:
for the least they could possibly do
I know I've already replied to you once. I'm replying again. Because I find your argument simply stunning.
Sure, he CAN do two things at once. But why force him do so unneccesarily? Why is it so GODDAMNED important to have the debate at 9 p.m. on Friday night? What's so magical about that date and time?
It can't be postponed, at all, so these guys can fucking get to work instead of going on with the dog-and-pony jackoff show that are the debates? Seriously?
I swear to God, I don't know what to think about America anymore. Our priorities are all fucked up. Heaven forbid we disrupt the prime time TV schedule to haul the economy back from the brink of collapse ...
for the least they could possibly do
the fucker hasn't shown up the vote in MONTHS....MONTHS....I'll say it again, MONTHS....suddenly, he thinks he's the fucking savior...when in reality, by his own admission, has no clue about the economy...
if he's such a strong leader, he'd be able to cover two things at once...I suppose when my car breaks down, I suspend all of my other duties until I fix it...or I can suck it up, get a ride to work, walk, or take the bus to take care of my responsibilities....this guy wants to be leader of the free world, yet, he can focus on two things at once...
he looks like a big pussy who can't take the heat....
by the way, where did you get that little write-up...which website...? I'm just curious....
Yeah, because the debate is just a tv show with no greater consequence than the latest episode of Deal or No Deal.
:rolleyes:
The debate is important. I'm not taking anything away from this vote...but there is nothing that either Obama or McCain can do in DC.
There is 24 hours in this day...and if either man is fit to be Prez than perhaps they should learn that they're not going to get much sleep for several years if they are elected.
Both Obama and McCain can do their part in this. They don't have to go to Washington to help out.
Like I said above....Change the debate to a discussion on the Economy.
Let's hear what both men plan on doing.
Let them debate about it.
McCain hasn't done his Senator duty for the last 2 years. Either has Obama.
They aren't Senators and more.
They're running for President.
The Debate should go on.
5 and a half million dollars will be flushed down the toilet...
yeah, a drop in the bucket, right...so much for fiscal responsibility...
I see you don't address the fact he can't do two things at once....nice...:rolleyes:
Obama has said that he will cast a vote on the legislation, as I'm sure will McCain. That is all that they need to do to be fulfilling their job description.
Do you think that they just have all 100 senators and 435 representatives in a room screaming at each other over what needs to be done? McCain is just going to enter the room, and all will be right with the world?
Give me a break. This is a political move entirely.
All reports indicate that Congress is making good progress without McCain or Obama's direct help. Other than casting a vote on the issue, I think their presence cannot possibly help.
Except, you know, folks in Congress asked him back. They basically sent out a giant bat signal.
I mean, are we really going to bash a senator for wanting to do his job? Really?
I mean, I really am flabbergasted at the reaction from some of you.
If you want to be cynical, and think of this only as a political ploy, that's fine. I understand that response, even if I don't neccesarily agree with it.
It's the pure outrage that I don't understand. As if it completely unreasonable for a Senator to want to be in the Senate for a debate/vote of this magnitude ...
Call me crazy, but I find that desire to be perfectly reasonable.
for the least they could possibly do
no one is bashing him for not doing his job as a senator...I'm bashing him because he can't focus on two things at once....do you understand...?
and just because you claim the debate is "unnecessary", it may come as a surprise, not everyone feels that way....:eek:
I've said this before on this thread ... but McCain, for all the faults you (and probably I) think he has, is one of the most respected voices on both sides of the aisle in the Senate. He would be one of the people most likely to be able to bring people together on a compromise, and to do it quickly.
There's a reason some Senators (and Paulson) are saying this bailout is doomed to failure without McCain.
I didn't want to make this thread too anti-Obama, but fuck it: If nobody is clamoring for Obama to come back and help fix this, as they were for McCain, that should probably tell you something about Obama's standing in the Senate. Nobody gives a fuck about what he has to say. He's apparently completely unneccessary when it comes to resolving the biggest issue of the day.
And he wants to be president?
for the least they could possibly do
Did you read the article written by that noted GOP sympathizer George Stephanopoulos on Tuesday that I posted earlier?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/stephanopoulo-4.html
McCain's vote is the key vote in this bailout and if my decision were the key vote in it I'd sure as anything want to make sure I know firsthand what I'm voting for and not depend on my subordinates.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
I know. And it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Which is certainly saying something. So, congratulations on that.
Nobody is threatening to CANCEL the debates outright. Just postpone them until next week.
If the potential meltdown of the entire U.S. economy isn't a reason for postponement, what is?
for the least they could possibly do
have you read any of the post here. Mccain or Obama is going to be the president, don't you think that they should be there for this.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Once again...Does McCain have to go to Washington to cast his vote? He's been absent from voting for everything else since he started running for President.
What will his presence do in DC? It's not like McCain holds the key to solving this problem nor the presence to sway the vote in either direction.
The man isn't apart of any commitee. He offers no insight.
This pure political posturing and nothing else.
The point is the debate and the campaign can go on. Neither candidate has to put anything on hold to vote on this fucking bill. It's absurd to think that either Obama or McCain have to put anything on hold for this.
This debate is important. It's not just some prime time bullshit show.
They should change the platform of this debate to reflect the current situation.
Right now America is looking to McCain and Obama to give some answers.
Both men can do best for the country by getting up there and laying it on the line what they are going to do when they are President to solve this economic crisis.
It's time to hear their plans
It's time to hear them debate on the issues that they are going to face.
Do not downgrade this because it is VERY IMPORTANT.
McCain just looks like a chickenshit right now. He's using this vote to further his Political aspirations. It's so obvious and it's an insult to us all.
Exactly. If I'm Obama or McCain, I'm going to be in charge of this massive monstrosity of program beginning in January. And, for better or worse, my job performance is going to be judged in part by how it goes.
If you want to have any control over how it goes down, and how the program is shaped and implemented, now is the time. January is too late.
Or, we could all go to Mississippi and spent two hours repeating the same talking points we've been regurgitating for two years.
You make the call.
for the least they could possibly do
Someone tell George that this Bailout is going to pass with or without McCain's vote.