if i'm gonna type something - i'm most likely going to post a link for you to read ... so, what's the difference?
you want my opinion - read the thread ... but posting one line that continues to tow the same PR bs that i've heard a gazillion times isn't going to motivate me to respond with anything significant ...
are you paying attention? ok I guess I will just have to ask. what has hamas done in the last 10 years to prove themselves worthy of not being seen as an extremist group?
are you paying attention? ok I guess I will just have to ask. what has hamas done in the last 10 years to prove themselves worthy of not being seen as an extremist group?
are YOU paying attention?
your question alone pretty much ignores that Hamas has a social wing that funds school programs, health clinics, educational and cultural programs ... granted - i'm not delusioned to think they aren't using these programs for ulterior motives ... but the fact is they aren't deemed to be corrupt like fatah and they contribute to the every day palestinians lives while the other groups like the palestinian authority are not ...
and for future reference - any question you ask of hamas - you must ask of israel ... what has israel done to prove themselves worth of not being an oppressor?
your question alone pretty much ignores that Hamas has a social wing that funds school programs, health clinics, educational and cultural programs ... granted - i'm not delusioned to think they aren't using these programs for ulterior motives ... but the fact is they aren't deemed to be corrupt like fatah and they contribute to the every day palestinians lives while the other groups like the palestinian authority are not ...
so you are basically admitting their social wing is just smoke and mirrors?
and for future reference - any question you ask of hamas - you must ask of israel ... what has israel done to prove themselves worth of not being an oppressor?
this isn't the same question. but to answer it, nothing.
your question alone pretty much ignores that Hamas has a social wing that funds school programs, health clinics, educational and cultural programs ... granted - i'm not delusioned to think they aren't using these programs for ulterior motives ... but the fact is they aren't deemed to be corrupt like fatah and they contribute to the every day palestinians lives while the other groups like the palestinian authority are not ...
and for future reference - any question you ask of hamas - you must ask of israel ... what has israel done to prove themselves worth of not being an oppressor?
Few people realize this
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
what was typed immediately above what I responded to....
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
so you are basically admitting their social wing is just smoke and mirrors?
this isn't the same question. but to answer it, nothing.
no ... that is not what i'm saying ... what i'm saying is that hamas encompasses a lot more then suicide bombings ... they were born to fight the oppressive israeli regime ... whether one agrees with their tactics is secondary to the fact they represent a great deal of palestinians for a reason - choose to ignore those reasons and you basically further advance the fallout ...
no ... that is not what i'm saying ... what i'm saying is that hamas encompasses a lot more then suicide bombings ... they were born to fight the oppressive israeli regime ... whether one agrees with their tactics is secondary to the fact they represent a great deal of palestinians for a reason - choose to ignore those reasons and you basically further advance the fallout ...
I'm sure there is more to them but they can't be respected until they stop funding and encouraging suicide bombings on innocent civilians. and yes Israel should be condemned for doing the same.
Many people realize that Hamas provides social intiatives and funding ... It was all over the news after they took power in Gaza. The fact that they do so has no bearing upon the fact that they still pose a huge threat to true peace in the region, and nor does the fact that they were democratically elected. People will stop seeing them as an extremist group when they stop being one. Its not that complicated.
no ... that is not what i'm saying ... what i'm saying is that hamas encompasses a lot more then suicide bombings ... they were born to fight the oppressive israeli regime ... whether one agrees with their tactics is secondary to the fact they represent a great deal of palestinians for a reason - choose to ignore those reasons and you basically further advance the fallout ...
Appealing for people's sympathies with regards to Hamas is something that only a privledged person who grew up in a truly safe society could do. That aside, correctly pointing out that Hamas is a big part of the problem is not ignoring the issues. Quite the opposite.
As well, my statement about the IRA was with regards to renouncing violence, something Hamas refuses to do. Your PLO analogy doesn't apply here, because the PLO never really renounced violence either. Hamas has political clout ... This does not mean that they aren't a huge part of the problem.
Appealing for people's sympathies with regards to Hamas is something that only a privledged person who grew up in a truly safe society could do. That aside, correctly pointing out that Hamas is a big part of the problem is not ignoring the issues. Quite the opposite.
As well, my statement about the IRA was with regards to renouncing violence, something Hamas refuses to do. Your PLO analogy doesn't apply here, because the PLO never really renounced violence either. Hamas has political clout ... This does not mean that they aren't a huge part of the problem.
Hamas uses the language used on them. In this case violence.
your question alone pretty much ignores that Hamas has a social wing that funds school programs, health clinics, educational and cultural programs ... granted - i'm not delusioned to think they aren't using these programs for ulterior motives ... but the fact is they aren't deemed to be corrupt like fatah and they contribute to the every day palestinians lives while the other groups like the palestinian authority are not ...
and for future reference - any question you ask of hamas - you must ask of israel ... what has israel done to prove themselves worth of not being an oppressor?
I just cant believe the number of fringe radicals on this board
As well, my statement about the IRA was with regards to renouncing violence, something Hamas refuses to do. Your PLO analogy doesn't apply here, because the PLO never really renounced violence either. Hamas has political clout ... This does not mean that they aren't a huge part of the problem.
I don't argue with bufoons. Waste of time. Go back to being Byrinzie's parrot ya douchebag
If you want we can make this a personal issue. Id be happy to get banned with you. It would be an honor to take a mindless drone with me and im sure the boards would appreciate the quietness of your absence.
If you want we can make this a personal issue. Id be happy to get banned with you. It would be an honor to take a mindless drone with me and im sure the boards would appreciate the quietness of your absence.
I was ignoring you. If you scroll back you are the one who started with the personal insults which are now unabated on your part. Goodnight Parrot.
what specifically? that hamas has a social wing that is uses to pay suicide bombers families?
Yes, it uses the ENTIRE social wing that supports over a million palestinians in gaza to pay for.... what.... 10 suicide bomber's families in like 5 years?
why do people always ignore statistics? Always in a debate when people compare death tolls of palestinians to israelis, all the pro-israeli people say "yeah i know israel always RESPONDS to the attacks on a much higher level"...
what the fuck is that supposed to mean? israel does not always respond to attacks by hamas, actually they often start MANY of the battles. just the other day byrnzie made a topic about hamas calling for a ceasefire and israel responding with more violence. why does no one ever remember things like this? you just remember that hamas militants, according to israeli and US govts, shoot some rockets into some random israeli cities, killing maybe 0.00003 people per rocket, and that calls for the army to run into gaza and kill 100 people.
Never said it was humane. Unfortunately Hamas has chosen war while Fatah is trying to obtain peace. If you choose war then people will get hurt. Their choice.
Yes, their choice but surely for them based on the facts/reality that the Fatah tactics have not borne any fruit in all these years, therefore are ineffectual, hence violence as a means to reach their political objectives.
Terrorism is nothing new in history. The point is to get all the parties to cease violence and keep their words on what's agreed, but if one party doesn't, there won't be any progress. And it's not just up to Fatah, Hamas but also the Israeli government and the US.
Leaving Hamas to promote violence and terrorism certainly won't bring peace to the region either. Either Hamas is destroyed/disbanded/discredited, or they change their ideology (something that could be possible ... Look at the IRA) ... Something about Hamas and related groups has to change, just like the Israelis have to change.
Even for IRA it is not simply a case of their changing their ideology but bringing them in political dialogue with the British government and the Irish government. Also, when their terrorist tactics backfired (when civilians got killed in a ceremony to commomerate the dead... can't remember the name of the event, but it's referenced in the Sunday Bloody Sunday song) and their lost popular support.. It's not simply a question of outlawing a group that promotes violence.. how can you destroy them with more violence? The cycle will continue and things will get worse for everyone.
so you are basically admitting their social wing is just smoke and mirrors?
Not just smoke and mirrors because it provides relief to Palestinians in their daily life. This of course increases their political support among them.
Comments
are you paying attention? ok I guess I will just have to ask. what has hamas done in the last 10 years to prove themselves worthy of not being seen as an extremist group?
are YOU paying attention?
your question alone pretty much ignores that Hamas has a social wing that funds school programs, health clinics, educational and cultural programs ... granted - i'm not delusioned to think they aren't using these programs for ulterior motives ... but the fact is they aren't deemed to be corrupt like fatah and they contribute to the every day palestinians lives while the other groups like the palestinian authority are not ...
and for future reference - any question you ask of hamas - you must ask of israel ... what has israel done to prove themselves worth of not being an oppressor?
so you are basically admitting their social wing is just smoke and mirrors?
this isn't the same question. but to answer it, nothing.
Few people realize this
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
realize what?
what was typed immediately above what I responded to....
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
what specifically? that hamas has a social wing that is uses to pay suicide bombers families?
exactly what was there for what it was...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
no ... that is not what i'm saying ... what i'm saying is that hamas encompasses a lot more then suicide bombings ... they were born to fight the oppressive israeli regime ... whether one agrees with their tactics is secondary to the fact they represent a great deal of palestinians for a reason - choose to ignore those reasons and you basically further advance the fallout ...
I'm sure there is more to them but they can't be respected until they stop funding and encouraging suicide bombings on innocent civilians. and yes Israel should be condemned for doing the same.
Appealing for people's sympathies with regards to Hamas is something that only a privledged person who grew up in a truly safe society could do. That aside, correctly pointing out that Hamas is a big part of the problem is not ignoring the issues. Quite the opposite.
As well, my statement about the IRA was with regards to renouncing violence, something Hamas refuses to do. Your PLO analogy doesn't apply here, because the PLO never really renounced violence either. Hamas has political clout ... This does not mean that they aren't a huge part of the problem.
Hamas uses the language used on them. In this case violence.
I just cant believe the number of fringe radicals on this board
Why is Israel never asked to renounce violence?
Thats your 21st Israel post this week. Didnt we talk about this?
crickets getting louder..
I don't argue with bufoons. Waste of time. Go back to being Byrinzie's parrot ya douchebag
I was ignoring you. If you scroll back you are the one who started with the personal insults which are now unabated on your part. Goodnight Parrot.
what are you, 5?
Yes, it uses the ENTIRE social wing that supports over a million palestinians in gaza to pay for.... what.... 10 suicide bomber's families in like 5 years?
why do people always ignore statistics? Always in a debate when people compare death tolls of palestinians to israelis, all the pro-israeli people say "yeah i know israel always RESPONDS to the attacks on a much higher level"...
what the fuck is that supposed to mean? israel does not always respond to attacks by hamas, actually they often start MANY of the battles. just the other day byrnzie made a topic about hamas calling for a ceasefire and israel responding with more violence. why does no one ever remember things like this? you just remember that hamas militants, according to israeli and US govts, shoot some rockets into some random israeli cities, killing maybe 0.00003 people per rocket, and that calls for the army to run into gaza and kill 100 people.
you guys are so blind, it's terrifying.
Yes, their choice but surely for them based on the facts/reality that the Fatah tactics have not borne any fruit in all these years, therefore are ineffectual, hence violence as a means to reach their political objectives.
Terrorism is nothing new in history. The point is to get all the parties to cease violence and keep their words on what's agreed, but if one party doesn't, there won't be any progress. And it's not just up to Fatah, Hamas but also the Israeli government and the US.
Even for IRA it is not simply a case of their changing their ideology but bringing them in political dialogue with the British government and the Irish government. Also, when their terrorist tactics backfired (when civilians got killed in a ceremony to commomerate the dead... can't remember the name of the event, but it's referenced in the Sunday Bloody Sunday song) and their lost popular support.. It's not simply a question of outlawing a group that promotes violence.. how can you destroy them with more violence? The cycle will continue and things will get worse for everyone.
Not just smoke and mirrors because it provides relief to Palestinians in their daily life. This of course increases their political support among them.
And you definitely need to put Israel and the US government policy into the equation, otherwise nothing gets solved.