Yes, that's right ... Everyone pretend that Hamas actually said they'd recognize Israel's right to exist (they didn't), and also pretend that they are just misunderstood but highly reasonable people who obviously have always wanted to accept Israel all along, but just couldn't take the plunge. Um, right ... I feel compelled to point out that most of you guys (polaris, Brynzie, abook) are actually a lot smarter than your posts in this thread make you look.
That being said, I do appreciate what Carter is trying to do here. Dialogue is a pretty reasonable option, given that even if you're talking to fanatics, the dialogue itself will not make the situation worse ... It MAY help (in this case, it didn't), and it certainty won't hurt.
By doing something he is hurting the process. Hamas shouldn't even be recognized. why go against the country's will and defy everyone and speak to a militant organization whose sole purpose is to oppose Israel.
So we're promoting democracy in the middle east by ignoring the elected goverment. Brilliant....
Yeah, I probably should not have called you out. Polaris acting all nonplussed at the possibility that Hamas would be reasonable set me off ... As much as I'd like Hamas to change it views and actually acknowledge the possibility of a lasting peace, I would not pretend to be all nonchalant about these things if they were to happen. I'd be surprised as fuck.
Yeah, I probably should not have called you out. Polaris acting all nonplussed at the possibility that Hamas would be reasonable set me off ... As much as I'd like Hamas to change it views and actually acknowledge the possibility of a lasting peace, I would not pretend to be all nonchalant about these things if they were to happen. I'd be surprised as fuck.
of course you'd be ... this is one of the cruxes of the thread ... what do you REALLY know about Hamas?? ... what do ANY of us know about Hamas?? ...
at the end of the day - they are the democratically elected representatives of the palestinian people - to ignore them only perpetuates the differences and leaves us further away from peace ...
of course you'd be ... this is one of the cruxes of the thread ... what do you REALLY know about Hamas?? ... what do ANY of us know about Hamas?? ...
at the end of the day - they are the democratically elected representatives of the palestinian people - to ignore them only perpetuates the differences and leaves us further away from peace ...
One cannot read anyone's mind ... We can judge others based only on their behavior, which in the case of Hamas is utterly reprehensible. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk to them ... It DOES mean that some skepticism with regards to their true motives is warranted.
One cannot read anyone's mind ... We can judge others based only on their behavior, which in the case of Hamas is utterly reprehensible. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk to them ... It DOES mean that some skepticism with regards to their true motives is warranted.
As is Israel’s; both sides have blood on their hands. If the US would acknowledge that and truly act as a neutral party things would be different.
The 67 borders have nothing to do with anything. Hamas might give lip service to that idea, but it's nothing more than lip service. They want the destruction of Israel...and I believe they've made that quite clear over the years. Give them the 67 borders and they'll just continue to try and chip away at the existence of Israel.
Hamas can say whatever they want, why would anyone in their right mind actually believe a word of it? I suppose some people enjoy "rooting for the underdog" (the "underdog" being Hamas)...but being the "underdog" doesn't automatically equate into being "right" or "justified" in your actions and motives.
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They want the destruction of Israel...and I believe they've made that quite clear over the years.
So you're saying that the Palestinians have been 'chipping away at the existence of Israel'? That's an interesting comment. Please provide just one shred of evidence that supports it.
Ans as for them wanting to 'destroy Israel', that's the equivalent of saying that partisan groups in occupied Europe were trying to destroy Germany.
Maybe the 67 borders don't mean anything to you. But then you clearly have no real interest in the issue and are just repeating what you've learned from watching the news on t.v.
The 67 borders have nothing to do with anything. Hamas might give lip service to that idea, but it's nothing more than lip service. They want the destruction of Israel...and I believe they've made that quite clear over the years. Give them the 67 borders and they'll just continue to try and chip away at the existence of Israel.
Hamas can say whatever they want, why would anyone in their right mind actually believe a word of it? I suppose some people enjoy "rooting for the underdog" (the "underdog" being Hamas)...but being the "underdog" doesn't automatically equate into being "right" or "justified" in your actions and motives.
So you what do you propose then? The complete extermination and removal of the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank? Or do you simply think that the Palestinians should be used as slave labourers by Israel?
How is he hurting the process by hearing the other sides grievance? Maybe if we took the time to hear what these people had to say instead of just labeling them as evil and blocking them out we could actually accomplish something.
Thank you. Couldn't agree more. I'm not a huge fan of Carter's, but good for him for actually doing something productive to try to help.
All the rusted signs, we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead...
And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
The 67 borders have nothing to do with anything. Hamas might give lip service to that idea, but it's nothing more than lip service. They want the destruction of Israel...and I believe they've made that quite clear over the years. Give them the 67 borders and they'll just continue to try and chip away at the existence of Israel.
Hamas can say whatever they want, why would anyone in their right mind actually believe a word of it? I suppose some people enjoy "rooting for the underdog" (the "underdog" being Hamas)...but being the "underdog" doesn't automatically equate into being "right" or "justified" in your actions and motives.
Look what they did when Israel, in good faith, withdrew from Gaza...It's now a rocket launching platform into Southern Israel.
Thank you. Couldn't agree more. I'm not a huge fan of Carter's, but good for him for actually doing something productive to try to help.
He is obstructing U.S AND European official policy and acting, again, in a naive manner and is being used as a propaganda puppet by Hamas. For all of you who weren't around during Carter's presidency there is good reason he was run out of Washington after one term.
So you what do you propose then? The complete extermination and removal of the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank? Or do you simply think that the Palestinians should be used as slave labourers by Israel?
I think you have been hitting the cool aid a little hard. Are you a Holocaust denier as well? You seem to be of that ilk.
Look what they did when Israel, in good faith, withdrew from Gaza...It's now a rocket launching platform into Southern Israel.
That's like saying the Nazis withdrew from occupied Europe in 'Good faith' and so deserve a pat on the back for their generosity.
For your information, it was only a partial withdrawal and they continued their ilegal settlement building elsewhere. They then re-entered Gaza a month later and continued their atrocities there.
That's like saying the Nazis withdrew from occupied Europe in 'Good faith' and so deserve a pat on the back for their generosity.
For your information, it was only a partial withdrawal and they continued their ilegal settlement building elsewhere. They then re-entered Gaza a month later and continued their atrocities there.
No reasoning with a hater. Continue with your propaganda war.
He is obstructing U.S AND European official policy and acting, again, in a naive manner and is being used as a propaganda puppet by Hamas.
You mean he's obstructing the U.S policy of vetoing any chance of a two-state solution? I suppose you don't think that the U.S media is a propaganda puppet for Israel?
You need a hobby. Maybe knitting. This whole obsessing over Palestinian thing is keeping you from your life's work. Maybe you can knit a suicide bomb.
I'm not obsessed with it at all. I just see it for what it is - the most obvious example of western hypocrisy and double-standards, and the cause of much of the strife in the middle east.
I know that gullible flag-suckers like yourself would love for the issue to be brushed under the carpet, or trivialised, but not everyone around here wears blinkers.
Still, nice try. I was almost about to embrace your neo-con philosophy there for a second.
No reasoning with a hater. Continue with your propaganda war.
aha! look here, my good friends and peers, those are the words of surrender. many a time, i have heard these passive-aggressive declarations of withdrawal, with only slight variations in terminology. you'll find that it gets more and more predictable as you study this phenomenon. what is the effective antidote for this malaise of forethought, you ask? the debates rages on, i'm afraid.
aha! look here, my good friends and peers, those are the words of surrender. many a time, i have heard these passive-aggressive declarations of withdrawal, with only slight variations in terminology. you'll find that it gets more and more predictable as you study this phenomenon. what is the effective antidote for this malaise of forethought, you ask? the debates rages on, i'm afraid.
I just know when and where and with whom to pick my battles. I dont have the time to piss in the wind with a knucklehead.
I'm not obsessed with it at all. I just see it for what it is - the most obvious example of western hypocrisy and double-standards, and the cause of much of the strife in the middle east.
I know that gullible flag-suckers like yourself would love for the issue to be brushed under the carpet, or trivialised, but not everyone around here wears blinkers.
Still, nice try. I was almost about to embrace your neo-con philosophy there for a second.
Simply do a search of the word "Israel" in this forum and in the last 8 months alone you have STARTED, not just contributed to, but started 19 anti-Israel threads. That does not include the dozens of others you have contributed to. But no......your not obsessed.
Comments
Did you not read my post above??
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5392159&postcount=22
You should work for a t.v news station. Your lame soundbites will be perfect for the job.
Talks out his arse most of the time he does
So we're promoting democracy in the middle east by ignoring the elected goverment. Brilliant....
Yeah, I probably should not have called you out. Polaris acting all nonplussed at the possibility that Hamas would be reasonable set me off ... As much as I'd like Hamas to change it views and actually acknowledge the possibility of a lasting peace, I would not pretend to be all nonchalant about these things if they were to happen. I'd be surprised as fuck.
of course you'd be ... this is one of the cruxes of the thread ... what do you REALLY know about Hamas?? ... what do ANY of us know about Hamas?? ...
at the end of the day - they are the democratically elected representatives of the palestinian people - to ignore them only perpetuates the differences and leaves us further away from peace ...
One cannot read anyone's mind ... We can judge others based only on their behavior, which in the case of Hamas is utterly reprehensible. That doesn't mean we shouldn't talk to them ... It DOES mean that some skepticism with regards to their true motives is warranted.
As is Israel’s; both sides have blood on their hands. If the US would acknowledge that and truly act as a neutral party things would be different.
Hamas can say whatever they want, why would anyone in their right mind actually believe a word of it? I suppose some people enjoy "rooting for the underdog" (the "underdog" being Hamas)...but being the "underdog" doesn't automatically equate into being "right" or "justified" in your actions and motives.
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So you're saying I have one up on you then? Cool!
So you're saying that the Palestinians have been 'chipping away at the existence of Israel'? That's an interesting comment. Please provide just one shred of evidence that supports it.
Ans as for them wanting to 'destroy Israel', that's the equivalent of saying that partisan groups in occupied Europe were trying to destroy Germany.
Maybe the 67 borders don't mean anything to you. But then you clearly have no real interest in the issue and are just repeating what you've learned from watching the news on t.v.
How do you know?
So you what do you propose then? The complete extermination and removal of the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank? Or do you simply think that the Palestinians should be used as slave labourers by Israel?
Thank you. Couldn't agree more. I'm not a huge fan of Carter's, but good for him for actually doing something productive to try to help.
And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
Look what they did when Israel, in good faith, withdrew from Gaza...It's now a rocket launching platform into Southern Israel.
I think you have been hitting the cool aid a little hard. Are you a Holocaust denier as well? You seem to be of that ilk.
Right, because the Palestinians really have nothing to complain about do they.
They're a bit like those uppity French resistance, and the ANC - just a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists who look for any excuse to cause trouble.
That's like saying the Nazis withdrew from occupied Europe in 'Good faith' and so deserve a pat on the back for their generosity.
For your information, it was only a partial withdrawal and they continued their ilegal settlement building elsewhere. They then re-entered Gaza a month later and continued their atrocities there.
No reasoning with a hater. Continue with your propaganda war.
You mean he's obstructing the U.S policy of vetoing any chance of a two-state solution? I suppose you don't think that the U.S media is a propaganda puppet for Israel?
I'm opposed to the illegal and brutal Israeli occupation, so obviously I'm a holocaust denier.
So you've been reasoning?
You need a hobby. Maybe knitting. This whole obsessing over Palestinian thing is keeping you from your life's work. Maybe you can knit a suicide bomb.
I'm not obsessed with it at all. I just see it for what it is - the most obvious example of western hypocrisy and double-standards, and the cause of much of the strife in the middle east.
I know that gullible flag-suckers like yourself would love for the issue to be brushed under the carpet, or trivialised, but not everyone around here wears blinkers.
Still, nice try. I was almost about to embrace your neo-con philosophy there for a second.
aha! look here, my good friends and peers, those are the words of surrender. many a time, i have heard these passive-aggressive declarations of withdrawal, with only slight variations in terminology. you'll find that it gets more and more predictable as you study this phenomenon. what is the effective antidote for this malaise of forethought, you ask? the debates rages on, i'm afraid.
I just know when and where and with whom to pick my battles. I dont have the time to piss in the wind with a knucklehead.
Simply do a search of the word "Israel" in this forum and in the last 8 months alone you have STARTED, not just contributed to, but started 19 anti-Israel threads. That does not include the dozens of others you have contributed to. But no......your not obsessed.