Carter and Hamas

polaris

I know lots here don't like Jimmy C - his unwillingness to use the CIA for too many extracurricular activities hurt him at home ... especially to the super-proud ...

in any case - i don't see a thread on this and it's defnitely a worthwhile topic ... Hamas accepts Israel - surprise surprise! ... this is not good news that want to dismiss the org. even tho they are the democratically elected gov't of palestinians ... but they're terrorists you say? ... no worse then what Israel has done ...

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http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/416635

Hamas accepts Israel, Carter says

JERUSALEM – Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter said Monday that Hamas – the Islamic militant group that has called for the destruction of Israel – is prepared to accept the right of the Jewish state to "live as a neighbour next door in peace."

Carter relayed the message in a speech in Jerusalem after meeting last week with top Hamas leaders in Syria. It capped a nine-day visit to the Middle East aimed at breaking the deadlock between Israel and Hamas militants who rule the Gaza Strip.

Hamas leaders "said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders" and they would "accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbour next door in peace," Carter said.

The borders he referred to were the frontiers that existed before Israel captured large swaths of Arab lands in the 1967 Mideast War – including the West Bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza.

In the past, Hamas officials have said they would establish a ``peace in stages" if Israel were to withdraw to the borders it held before 1967. But it has been evasive about how it sees the final borders of a Palestinian state and has not abandoned its official call for Israel's destruction.

Israel, which evacuated Gaza in 2005, has accepted the idea of a Palestinian state there and in the West Bank. But it has resisted Palestinian demands that it return to its 1967 frontiers.

Carter urged Israel to engage in direct negotiations with Hamas, saying failure to do so was hampering peace efforts.

"We do not believe that peace is likely and certainly that peace is not sustainable unless a way is found to bring Hamas into the discussions in some way," he said. "The present strategy of excluding Hamas and excluding Syria is just not working."

Israel considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and has shunned Carter because of his meetings with Hamas' supreme chief, Khaled Mashaal, and other Hamas figures. Syria harbours Hamas' exiled leadership in its capital, Damascus, and supports the Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas who warred with Israel in the summer of 2006.

Carter said Hamas promised it wouldn't undermine Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' efforts to reach a peace deal with Israel, as long as the Palestinian people approved it in a referendum. In such a scenario, he said Hamas would not oppose a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri in Gaza said Hamas' readiness to put a peace deal to a referendum "does not mean that Hamas is going to accept the result of the referendum."

Such a referendum, he said, would have to be voted on by Palestinians living all over the world. They number about 9.3 million, including some four million living in the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem.

The only senior Israeli official to meet with Carter was President Shimon Peres. During their meeting, Peres scolded Carter for meeting with the Islamic militant group.

Israel says Carter's talks embolden Palestinian extremists and hurt Palestinian moderates as they try to make peace with the Jewish state. Abbas, who rules only the West Bank, is in a bitter rivalry with Hamas.

"The problem is not that I met with Hamas in Syria," Carter said Monday. "The problem is that Israel and the United States refuse to meet with someone who must be involved."

Carter said Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking has "regressed" since a U.S.-hosted conference in Annapolis, Md., in November. He faulted Israel for continuing to build on disputed land the Palestinians want for a future state and for its network of roadblocks that severely hamper Palestinians travelling in the West Bank.

"The prison around Gaza has been tightened," he said, referring to Israel's blockade of the territory since the Hamas takeover.

lazymoon13

I respect carter for doing this. it takes guts. but it all boils down to the 67 borders. IMO, I just don't see those borders coming back. compromises must be made.

polaris

lazymoon13 wrote:

I respect carter for doing this. it takes guts. but it all boils down to the 67 borders. IMO, I just don't see those borders coming back. compromises must be made.

yeah ... but how can you get a compromise if no one will talk to them?

lazymoon13

polaris wrote:

yeah ... but how can you get a compromise if no one will talk to them?

thats true. I hope this meeting closes the gap between the two. I applaud carter for this. this is the first time I've heard hamas say anything like this.

lazymoon13

I found this interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_mi_ea/syria_hamas_israel

But Mashaal says the group would never outright formally recognize Israel.



never????

SoonForgotten2

Which brings us to: http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/i_got_what_america_needs_right

But good on ol' JC for having the balls to do this. Too bad it probably won't change anything.

polaris

lazymoon13 wrote:

I found this interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_mi_ea/syria_hamas_israel

But Mashaal says the group would never outright formally recognize Israel.



never????

in the grand scheme of things - who really cares? ... as long as the suicide bombings stop and the oppressive israeli control is removed ...

thing also to consider is this (like most wars) is a PR war ... you have to take some words with a grain of salt ...

Abookamongstthemany

Of course they have already down played everything Carter came back and said.
No need to actually listen and take advice from someone who went out their to be civil and hear their concerns...we as a nation couldn't be happier to be defending Israel against the evil Hamas, end of story it seems. Do we even know how to listen?

fuck

lazymoon13 wrote:

thats true. I hope this meeting closes the gap between the two. I applaud carter for this. this is the first time I've heard hamas say anything like this.

actually, hamas has been saying for several years that once israel moves back to the 67 borders, they'd be willing to talk. however, israel, and the US of course, have dismissed this and just stick to calling them terrorists and killing their people. it's the most diplomatic way imo.

lazymoon13

_FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:

actually, hamas has been saying for several years that once israel moves back to the 67 borders, they'd be willing to talk. however, israel, and the US of course, have dismissed this and just stick to calling them terrorists and killing their people. it's the most diplomatic way imo.

I wish Israel and the US would talk to hamas, I really do. but I also don't see the 67 borders coming back. its a shitty situation

macgyver06

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Of course they have already down played everything Carter came back and said.
No need to actually listen and take advice from someone who went out their to be civil and hear their concerns...we as a nation couldn't be happier to be defending Israel against the evil Hamas, end of story it seems. Do we even know how to listen?

i like the reporter that asks in an arrogant tone... ''how would you feel about an ex president underminding your administration''

if he has a peanut gun he should of used it at that exact moment...



p.s. (to gloat) i met president Carter at a braves game in like '94...gotta a signed ball from him shook his hand and than ran away.. didnt really know how important he was at my age than.

macgyver06

lazymoon13 wrote:

I wish Israel and the US would talk to hamas, I really do. but I also don't see the 67 borders coming back. its a shitty situation

don't get too attached to the land mass that is called israel... it should be departing in the next couple years.

SpreadtheJAM

Carter was perhaps one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen. What makes you think he can help out now?

lazymoon13

macgyver06 wrote:

don't get too attached to the land mass that is called israel... it should be departing in the next couple years.

this is like the 5th time you've said this. where is Israel going?

lazymoon13

SpreadtheJAM wrote:

Carter was perhaps one of the worst presidents this country has ever seen. What makes you think he can help out now?

well he's doing something that neither side have stepped forward to do. its a first step. in a 1000 step process.

SpreadtheJAM

By doing something he is hurting the process. Hamas shouldn't even be recognized. why go against the country's will and defy everyone and speak to a militant organization whose sole purpose is to oppose Israel.

blackredyellow

SpreadtheJAM wrote:

By doing something he is hurting the process. Hamas shouldn't even be recognized. why go against the country's will and defy everyone and speak to a militant organization whose sole purpose is to oppose Israel.

So we trumpet the hope and promise of democracy around the world, and when a government that we don't like is democratically elected, then we just ignore them and pretend they don't exist?

SpreadtheJAM

blackredyellow wrote:

So we trumpet the hope and promise of democracy around the world, and when a government that we don't like is democratically elected, then we just ignore them and pretend they don't exist?

Yeah, its all good that basically a terrorist organization has control of that region. but at least they were elected and it wan't the U.S. who put them in charge. I guess thats a plus.

Byrnzie

lazymoon13 wrote:

I found this interesting...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080421/ap_on_re_mi_ea/syria_hamas_israel

But Mashaal says the group would never outright formally recognize Israel.



never????

I wonder if Israel will ever recognise Palestine? Or is that question off the table?

Byrnzie

SpreadtheJAM wrote:

Yeah, its all good that basically a terrorist organization has control of that region. but at least they were elected and it wan't the U.S. who put them in charge. I guess thats a plus.

Depends what you mean by terrorism. Sounds to me like you don't believe Israel has committed any acts of terrorism?
Just in case you're wondering, the occupation itself is an act of terrorism.

Byrnzie

lazymoon13 wrote:

well he's doing something that neither side have stepped forward to do. its a first step. in a 1000 step process.

True. Although I disagree with the '1000 steps part'. I really don't think that many steps are needed to achieve peace over there.
IMO: Israel needs to pull back to the 1967 borders - not something they can do overnight, but that's their problem they created for themselves, so fuck em!
Secondly, the U.S needs to stop feeding billions of dollars into the Israeli military machine every year. It's not doing anyone any good and is only succeeding in making the region more volatile.
Lastly, perhaps a U.N force needs to go in and administer the transition. Afterall, it's the U.N which overseas international law and which currently declares Israel to be in breach of over 60 resolutions - including that of the occupation - so maybe they should send their boys in - the U.S will need to sanction that of course. I expect they would need a peacekeeping force along the border for quite a while - something like what we've seen in Cyprus all these years.

Of course there's more to it than that, but these are the basics.