Total rubbish. I'm not dismissing that things like emotion and feeling exist. I'm understanding it quantitatively so I'm not confused about it's function.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Additionally, I'm not a social butterfly. I don't interact with society to serve my desire to be liked, or anything like that. Everyone in the world could hate me and it would matter little to me. I'm trying to explain why these things exist. If you take offense, that's your bias.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm going to write a wikipedia rap tune... "wiki... wiki, wiki..." or something to that effect.
"Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense neural mental state that arises subjectively rather than through conscious effort and evokes either a positive or negative psychological response to move an organism to action. An emotion is differentiated from a feeling." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion
According to dictionary.com:
Feelings:
6. an emotion or emotional perception or attitude: a feeling of joy; a feeling of sorrow.
7. capacity for emotion, esp. compassion: to have great feeling for the sufferings of others.
10. fine emotional endowment.
11. (in music, art, etc.) a. emotion or sympathetic perception revealed by an artist in his or her work: a poem without feeling.
13. readily affected by emotion; sympathetic: a feeling heart.
14. indicating or characterized by emotion: a feeling reply to the charge.
"Although feeling and emotion are sometimes interchangeable, feeling is the more general and neutral"
There is differentiation between these words, however we know people use them interchangeably. Emotional intelligence is finely inter-connected with "feeling".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
6. an emotion or emotional perception or attitude: a feeling of joy; a feeling of sorrow.
7. capacity for emotion, esp. compassion: to have great feeling for the sufferings of others.
10. fine emotional endowment.
11. (in music, art, etc.) a. emotion or sympathetic perception revealed by an artist in his or her work: a poem without feeling.
13. readily affected by emotion; sympathetic: a feeling heart.
14. indicating or characterized by emotion: a feeling reply to the charge.
"Although feeling and emotion are sometimes interchangeable, feeling is the more general and neutral"
There is differentiation between these words, however we know people use them interchangeably. Emotional intelligence is finely inter-connected with "feeling".
Ok, this is why people writing papers usually define the terms they use if their is any doubt about the definition. "Logic vs Feeling" implies to me a level of feeling synonymous with intuition, that in combination with the references to intution following that. Make up your mind.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Total rubbish. I'm not dismissing that things like emotion and feeling exist. I'm understanding it quantitatively so I'm not confused about it's function.
When you continue to objectify what is subjective, you prove your inability to assess the subjective. Your own wikipedia quote says: "Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense neural mental state that arises subjectively..." What is subjective cannot be dealt with in the hard science sense objectively. That is why the softer sciences that deal with subjectivity have very different criteria involved, which very distinctly deal with subjectivity and interpretation. You can do an objective brain scan to objectively assess the chemical physical science of brain chemistry. You must talk to a person and interpretively assess their subjective experience in order to understand. It's about two very different systems that both exist independently for a reason.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Can anyone tell me; Angelica you seem like the prime candidate.
Where does "Logic", "Feeling" and "Emotion" come from?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
When you continue to objectify what is subjective, you prove your inability to assess the subjective. Your own wikipedia quote says: "Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense neural mental state that arises subjectively..." What is subjective cannot be dealt with in the hard science sense objectively. That is why the softer sciences that deal with subjectivity have very different criteria involved, which very distinctly deal with subjectivity and interpretation. You can do an objective brain scan to objectively assess the chemical physical science of brain chemistry. You must talk to a person and interpretively assess their subjective experience in order to understand. It's about two very different systems that both exist independently for a reason.
Soft sciences like Psychology are still logical.
The logic cirucuits of our brains give rise to subjective thought. But even thought will become objectively studied the more we understand it.
Edit for clarity.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ok, this is why people writing papers usually define the terms they use if their is any doubt about the definition. "Logic vs Feeling" implies to me a level of feeling synonymous with intuition, that in combination with the references to intution following that. Make up your mind.
You not "making up your mind" is also in that equation of our lack of cooperatively defined terms. The system I generally use to understand our subjective filters--personality typing--has intuitive processes as being different than the category of thinking/feeling. That is why we both have "N" (intuition) in our codes, but next, you have "T" for thinking where I have "F" for feeling. You and I are BOTH intuitive by the Myers Briggs typing, and yet we have different thinking/feeling preferences. In the context of the original quote in this thread, I can say that when it talks of going beyond logic, that can refer to thinking AND intuition (which is why I lumped the Einstein intuition quote in, as well). Intuition/emotion/feeling are all alogical, which means they are beyond logic. They can be talked about logically, and yet they exist alogically. This is not to be confused with "illogical" which implies not logical.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I agree 100%. The study of psychology is based on logic, and as well it is based on feeling(alogical), empathy(alogical), hermeneutics, etc. This is why it is imperative that one who studies such subjective subjects must hone whole-brained thought, which is the integration of logical AND alogical processes. This requires going beyond mere logic. Objective science does not call for this. It relies on mapping and analyzing exteriors which is linear, logical and analytical. It does not assess the depths of said exteriors--the interiors--like psychology does. Therefore one CAN be a robot or a machine and effectively do hard science. One cannot be in order to work effectively in psychology.
The logic cirucuits of our brains give rise to subjective thought. But even thought will become objectively studied the more we understand it.
You are talking about "thought". Psychology deals with thoughts, emotions, feelings, impressions, etc. And there is much illogical thought that is subjectively experienced and must be accepted and interpreted by empathic psychological therapists in order to come up with working practical applications geared towards the health and healing of the patient.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm not understanding "alogical" give me an example of something that is "alogical".
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not understanding "alogical" give me an example of something that is "alogical".
If I experience the emotion of sadness, it might be completely "illogical" in terms of making rational sense. That is because it is not logical. It serves a logical purpose, and yet it is arbitrary, based on one's emotional history. They have a distinct subjective purpose for the individual, evolutionarily speaking, and inform us, but not logically. Emotions, by definition, are alogical. They are not logical, rational or analytical. They are direct feedback regarding how the environment affects us based on our past subjective emotional wiring. We developed the limbic system prior to developing our logical capacity. Therefore what operates without logic is not logical. Similarly, intuition serves a logical purpose. We can logically talk about intuition, and yet intuition happens in flashes of insight that has not been arrived at through a logical, linear, analytical process. It is therefore beyond logic.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Actually, I have no problem attracting ladies. They just think I'm not interested in them, because I don't get all giggly and shit.
This hot blonde chick approached me at the work party. She was pretty loaded and she says "you're so beautiful" and I said "ok, what department do you work in?"
I was well aware that my physiological self was wanting to bang the shit out of her. But my greater knowledge told me she is drunk and there are a lot of risks involved with that kind of activity.
There is a major difference between being aware of emotions and blindly acting upon them.
my greater knowledge says you're an idiot for that one. also, being aware of emotions? i thought you just said emotions do not exist, that they are just chemical cocktails? we dont have feelings or emotions i thought?
If I experience the emotion of sadness, it might be completely "illogical" in terms of making rational sense. That is because it is not logical. It serves a logical purpose, and yet it is arbitrary, based on one's emotional history. They have a distinct subjective purpose for the individual, evolutionarily speaking, and inform us, but not logically. Emotions, by definition, are alogical. They are not logical, rational or analytical. They are direct feedback regarding how the environment affects us based on our past subjective emotional wiring. We developed the limbic system prior to developing our logical capacity. Therefore what operates without logic is not logical. Similarly, intuition serves a logical purpose. We can logically talk about intuition, and yet intuition happens in flashes of insight that has not been arrived at through a logical, linear, analytical process. It is therefore beyond logic.
I agree with you, except that the underlying brain activities that give rise to emotion and intuition are very logical.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
my greater knowledge says you're an idiot for that one. also, being aware of emotions? i thought you just said emotions do not exist, that they are just chemical cocktails? we dont have feelings or emotions i thought?
That's a drastic misinterpretation of what I said. Emotions exist, but not in an alogical, imaginary, metaphysical, unexplainable, mysterious way.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's a drastic misinterpretation of what I said. Emotions exist, but not in an alogical, imaginary, metaphysical, unexplainable, mysterious way.
i dont think there is any way to scientifically explain why some people feel sad when a relative dies and others feel some amount of happiness for them having lived a full life. emotions are not scientifically quantifiable. the essence of scientific knowledge is that it is predictive. you formulate a theory of gravity, and then you can predict how fast an apple will fall from a tree. science cannot do this with behavior or emotions. you can't do a brain scan at birth and predict who will be president and who will be a serial killer. it is not biological in the sense of a reflex, where you tap someone's knees and their leg responds. humans are not that simple and the things that drive us are beyond the reach of scientific discovery and experimentation. you can detect patterns to some small extent, but you cannot forumlate any theory with the uniformity or accuracy of gravity.
i dont think there is any way to scientifically explain why some people feel sad when a relative dies and others feel some amount of happiness for them having lived a full life. emotions are not scientifically quantifiable. the essence of scientific knowledge is that it is predictive. you formulate a theory of gravity, and then you can predict how fast an apple will fall from a tree. science cannot do this with behavior or emotions. you can't do a brain scan at birth and predict who will be president and who will be a serial killer. it is not biological in the sense of a reflex, where you tap someone's knees and their leg responds. humans are not that simple and the things that drive us are beyond the reach of scientific discovery and experimentation. you can detect patterns to some small extent, but you cannot forumlate any theory with the uniformity or accuracy of gravity.
I strongly disagree. With our current knowledge it's difficult, but doable.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
With our current knowledge it's impossible, not difficult. I won't say that it will NEVER happen, but we're nowhere close to that now.
We would have to look at more than just their genes. We'd have to understand how everyone in the world operates simultaneously and all the seemingly random events that would occur within each individuals life.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
We would have to look at more than just their genes. We'd have to understand how everyone in the world operates simultaneously and all the seemingly random events that would occur within each individuals life.
In other words you're agreeing with hippiemom, that it's not at all possible at this time??
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"Based on discoveries made through neural mapping of the limbic system, the neurobiological explanation of human emotion is that emotion is a pleasant or unpleasant mental state organized in the limbic system of the mammalian brain. Specifically, these states are manifestations of non-verbally expressed feelings of agreement, anger, certainty, control, disagreement, disgust, disliking, embarrassment, fear, guilt, happiness, hate, interest, liking, love, sadness, shame, surprise, and uncertainty. Emotions are mammalian elaborations of vertebrate arousal patterns, in which neurochemicals (e.g., dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin) step-up or step-down the brain's activity level, as visible in body movements, gestures, and postures. In mammals, primates, and human beings, feelings are displayed as emotion cues." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Neurobiology
More with the link.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind it's faithful servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift." - Albert Einstein
thanks for sharing angelica. i agree with abook...very nice.
In other words you're agreeing with hippiemom, that it's not at all possible at this time??
It's possible for me to accurately predict my brother's actions, because I know mostly everything about him. No I can't predict that he will get hit by a truck, but I can accurately predict how he would feel if he lost his GF.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"Based on discoveries made through neural mapping of the limbic system, the neurobiological explanation of human emotion is that emotion is a pleasant or unpleasant mental state organized in the limbic system of the mammalian brain. Specifically, these states are manifestations of non-verbally expressed feelings of agreement, anger, certainty, control, disagreement, disgust, disliking, embarrassment, fear, guilt, happiness, hate, interest, liking, love, sadness, shame, surprise, and uncertainty. Emotions are mammalian elaborations of vertebrate arousal patterns, in which neurochemicals (e.g., dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin) step-up or step-down the brain's activity level, as visible in body movements, gestures, and postures. In mammals, primates, and human beings, feelings are displayed as emotion cues." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Neurobiology
More with the link.
I'm not interested in a link. I'm interested in either a quote where it specifically explains your assertion, or I'm interested in seeing you specifically explain your assertion on your own. In what sense are the underlying brain activities that give rise to emotions and intuition "very logical"? This above quote does not say that at all.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
i refuse to read wikipedia. it's randomly submitted info that nobody reviews or checks for accuracy. anybody can submit anything they feel like. so there's no establishing the accuracy of anything. for a man who got so upset about the pop culture critique of that guy's work on homosexuality, you sure seem more than happy to accept it without question from wikipedia.
and why cant we scan them at birth? we'd be able to identify any serial killer tendencies from their genetics and brain chemistry right?
I'm not interested in a link. I'm interested in either a quote where it specifically explains your assertion, or I'm interested in seeing you specifically explain your assertion on your own. In what sense are the underlying brain activities that give rise to emotions and intuition "very logical"? This above quote does not say that at all.
werent you giving me a hard time a few weeks back when i said he refuses to answer questions and instead pastes quotes that are inapplicable?
Comments
According to dictionary.com:
Feelings:
6. an emotion or emotional perception or attitude: a feeling of joy; a feeling of sorrow.
7. capacity for emotion, esp. compassion: to have great feeling for the sufferings of others.
10. fine emotional endowment.
11. (in music, art, etc.) a. emotion or sympathetic perception revealed by an artist in his or her work: a poem without feeling.
13. readily affected by emotion; sympathetic: a feeling heart.
14. indicating or characterized by emotion: a feeling reply to the charge.
"Although feeling and emotion are sometimes interchangeable, feeling is the more general and neutral"
There is differentiation between these words, however we know people use them interchangeably. Emotional intelligence is finely inter-connected with "feeling".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Ok, this is why people writing papers usually define the terms they use if their is any doubt about the definition. "Logic vs Feeling" implies to me a level of feeling synonymous with intuition, that in combination with the references to intution following that. Make up your mind.
When you continue to objectify what is subjective, you prove your inability to assess the subjective. Your own wikipedia quote says: "Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense neural mental state that arises subjectively..." What is subjective cannot be dealt with in the hard science sense objectively. That is why the softer sciences that deal with subjectivity have very different criteria involved, which very distinctly deal with subjectivity and interpretation. You can do an objective brain scan to objectively assess the chemical physical science of brain chemistry. You must talk to a person and interpretively assess their subjective experience in order to understand. It's about two very different systems that both exist independently for a reason.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Where does "Logic", "Feeling" and "Emotion" come from?
Soft sciences like Psychology are still logical.
The logic cirucuits of our brains give rise to subjective thought. But even thought will become objectively studied the more we understand it.
Edit for clarity.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You are talking about "thought". Psychology deals with thoughts, emotions, feelings, impressions, etc. And there is much illogical thought that is subjectively experienced and must be accepted and interpreted by empathic psychological therapists in order to come up with working practical applications geared towards the health and healing of the patient.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
If I experience the emotion of sadness, it might be completely "illogical" in terms of making rational sense. That is because it is not logical. It serves a logical purpose, and yet it is arbitrary, based on one's emotional history. They have a distinct subjective purpose for the individual, evolutionarily speaking, and inform us, but not logically. Emotions, by definition, are alogical. They are not logical, rational or analytical. They are direct feedback regarding how the environment affects us based on our past subjective emotional wiring. We developed the limbic system prior to developing our logical capacity. Therefore what operates without logic is not logical. Similarly, intuition serves a logical purpose. We can logically talk about intuition, and yet intuition happens in flashes of insight that has not been arrived at through a logical, linear, analytical process. It is therefore beyond logic.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I think the human mind's unique properties come from a creator, personally.
This is an article of faith, clearly, but as complex as the brain is, I simply cannot understand how these abilities are evolutionarily logical.
-Enoch Powell
my greater knowledge says you're an idiot for that one. also, being aware of emotions? i thought you just said emotions do not exist, that they are just chemical cocktails? we dont have feelings or emotions i thought?
I agree with you, except that the underlying brain activities that give rise to emotion and intuition are very logical.
That's a drastic misinterpretation of what I said. Emotions exist, but not in an alogical, imaginary, metaphysical, unexplainable, mysterious way.
i dont think there is any way to scientifically explain why some people feel sad when a relative dies and others feel some amount of happiness for them having lived a full life. emotions are not scientifically quantifiable. the essence of scientific knowledge is that it is predictive. you formulate a theory of gravity, and then you can predict how fast an apple will fall from a tree. science cannot do this with behavior or emotions. you can't do a brain scan at birth and predict who will be president and who will be a serial killer. it is not biological in the sense of a reflex, where you tap someone's knees and their leg responds. humans are not that simple and the things that drive us are beyond the reach of scientific discovery and experimentation. you can detect patterns to some small extent, but you cannot forumlate any theory with the uniformity or accuracy of gravity.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I strongly disagree. With our current knowledge it's difficult, but doable.
then why dont we arrest serial killers before they start killing people?
We can't have everyone under a microscope at all times.
Refer to the bible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadness#Determinants_of_mood
We would have to look at more than just their genes. We'd have to understand how everyone in the world operates simultaneously and all the seemingly random events that would occur within each individuals life.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Here is some reading for you.
"Based on discoveries made through neural mapping of the limbic system, the neurobiological explanation of human emotion is that emotion is a pleasant or unpleasant mental state organized in the limbic system of the mammalian brain. Specifically, these states are manifestations of non-verbally expressed feelings of agreement, anger, certainty, control, disagreement, disgust, disliking, embarrassment, fear, guilt, happiness, hate, interest, liking, love, sadness, shame, surprise, and uncertainty. Emotions are mammalian elaborations of vertebrate arousal patterns, in which neurochemicals (e.g., dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin) step-up or step-down the brain's activity level, as visible in body movements, gestures, and postures. In mammals, primates, and human beings, feelings are displayed as emotion cues."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion#Neurobiology
More with the link.
thanks for sharing angelica. i agree with abook...very nice.
It's possible for me to accurately predict my brother's actions, because I know mostly everything about him. No I can't predict that he will get hit by a truck, but I can accurately predict how he would feel if he lost his GF.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i refuse to read wikipedia. it's randomly submitted info that nobody reviews or checks for accuracy. anybody can submit anything they feel like. so there's no establishing the accuracy of anything. for a man who got so upset about the pop culture critique of that guy's work on homosexuality, you sure seem more than happy to accept it without question from wikipedia.
and why cant we scan them at birth? we'd be able to identify any serial killer tendencies from their genetics and brain chemistry right?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
werent you giving me a hard time a few weeks back when i said he refuses to answer questions and instead pastes quotes that are inapplicable?