logic vs feeling

El_Kabong

an interesting quote i found:

"At our best we beings are much, much grander than merely rational; at our best we transcend rationality while incorporating its procedures into our lower levels of functioning. This is why computers will never replace people, for they are condensed to be rational, and hence very limited."

chopitdown

The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.

angelica

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind it's faithful servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift." - Albert Einstein

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind it's faithful servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift." - Albert Einstein

Beautiful quote, Angelica!

angelica

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Beautiful quote, Angelica!

Thanks! That Einstein!

angelica

I'm big on integrating all of our intelligences. I'm greatly fond of logic and of rational thought. At the same time, it cannot tolerate much grey area. And there is so much grey area in life. Logic skirts the subjects it is uncomfortable with, such as interpretation and human issues. The problem is we cannot just avoid what is awkward, pretending it does not exist or that it is not valid. That is ignorance. We must increase our skill at dealing with what is not in black and white and to do so, we move beyond logic, while also embracing it.

world

logic vs feeling

male vs female

Drowned Out

world wrote:

logic vs feeling

male vs female

not pc to say...but it was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread title

angelica

Thankfully those who are predominantly "feelers" are not limited to women only, or we wouldn't have had the brilliance of John Lennon, or of Eddie Vedder, not to mention Ghandi, Jesus, Albert Camus, Abraham Maslow or C. G. Jung.

CorporateWhore

logic vs. feeling?

reason vs. faith?

One in the same?

More on Thomism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomism

Ahnimus

El_Kabong wrote:

an interesting quote i found:

"At our best we beings are much, much grander than merely rational; at our best we transcend rationality while incorporating its procedures into our lower levels of functioning. This is why computers will never replace people, for they are condensed to be rational, and hence very limited."

I don't get it...

We transcend rationality to what? It's never mentioned in the quote. Is it irrationality? While incorporating it's procedures into our lower levels of functioning? So then we go back down to sub-rationality?

"This is why computers will never replace people, for they are condensed to be rational, and hence very limited."

Actually I have a totally rational reason for this. A human can do what would take billions of lines of code for a computer to do. Actually my whole job could be done by a computer, but the computer can't catch errors it's not programmed to catch.

Ahnimus

chopitdown wrote:

The poet only asks to get his head into the heavens. It is the logician who seeks to get the heavens into his head. And it is his head that splits.

Heaven is in the head if you ask me. It's called creativity. You will also find the fountain of youth there, the easter bunny, santa claus and a whole bunch of other myths.

angelica

Exactly what is Emotional Intelligence? The term encompasses the following five characteristics and abilities:

1. Self-awareness--knowing your emotions, recognizing feelings as they occur, and discriminating between them
2. Mood management--handling feelings so they're relevant to the current situation and you react appropriately
3. Self-motivation--"gathering up" your feelings and directing yourself towards a goal, despite self-doubt, inertia, and impulsiveness
4. Empathy--recognizing feelings in others and tuning into their verbal and nonverbal cues
5. Managing relationships--handling interpersonal interaction, conflict resolution, and negotiations

Why Do We Need Emotional Intelligence?
Research in brain-based learning suggests that emotional health is fundamental to effective learning. According to a report from the National Center for Clinical Infant Programs, the most critical element for a student's success in school is an understanding of how to learn. (Emotional Intelligence, p. 193.) The key ingredients for this understanding are:
Confidence
Curiosity
Intentionality
Self-control
Relatedness
Capacity to communicate
Ability to cooperate
These traits are all aspects of Emotional Intelligence. Basically, a student who learns to learn is much more apt to succeed. Emotional Intelligence has proven a better predictor of future success than traditional methods like the GPA, IQ, and standardized test scores.

edit: http://www.funderstanding.com/eq.cfm

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind it's faithful servant. We have created a society that honours the servant and has forgotten the gift." - Albert Einstein

The fronto-insular cortex (FI) is actually a fast-processing rational machine. That's where we get "intuition" from. I guess we didn't have many neuroscientists in Einstein's time.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Exactly what is Emotional Intelligence? The term encompasses the following five characteristics and abilities:

1. Self-awareness--knowing your emotions, recognizing feelings as they occur, and discriminating between them
2. Mood management--handling feelings so they're relevant to the current situation and you react appropriately
3. Self-motivation--"gathering up" your feelings and directing yourself towards a goal, despite self-doubt, inertia, and impulsiveness
4. Empathy--recognizing feelings in others and tuning into their verbal and nonverbal cues
5. Managing relationships--handling interpersonal interaction, conflict resolution, and negotiations

Why Do We Need Emotional Intelligence?
Research in brain-based learning suggests that emotional health is fundamental to effective learning. According to a report from the National Center for Clinical Infant Programs, the most critical element for a student's success in school is an understanding of how to learn. (Emotional Intelligence, p. 193.) The key ingredients for this understanding are:
Confidence
Curiosity
Intentionality
Self-control
Relatedness
Capacity to communicate
Ability to cooperate
These traits are all aspects of Emotional Intelligence. Basically, a student who learns to learn is much more apt to succeed. Emotional Intelligence has proven a better predictor of future success than traditional methods like the GPA, IQ, and standardized test scores.

Ok now we are skipping all over the brain. We started with creativity, went to intuition and now we are talking about emotion and a whole mess of other things? Those are all functions of the brain which is very systematic, you could say rational.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok now we are skipping all over the brain. We started with creativity, went to intuition and now we are talking about emotion and a whole mess of other things? Those are all functions of the brain which is very systematic, you could say rational.

Emotional intelligence refers to the "feeling" part of "logic vs feeling", as the thread is titled. Emotionals are alogical, meaning beyond logic, whether you like it or not.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

Emotional intelligence refers to the "feeling" part of "logic vs feeling", as the thread is titled. Emotionals are alogical, meaning beyond logic, whether you like it or not.

You should say: Whether I know how it works or not.

Ok, while you are crying over spilled milk, I'm learning what a beta cell in the islet of a pancreas does. Neither of which will do either of us any good in the future. Unless of course I decided to go to school and get a degree.

Ahnimus

I'm going to write a wikipedia rap tune... "wiki... wiki, wiki..." or something to that effect.

"Emotion, in its most general definition, is an intense neural mental state that arises subjectively rather than through conscious effort and evokes either a positive or negative psychological response to move an organism to action. An emotion is differentiated from a feeling."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion

Ahnimus

"wiki... wiki, wiki..."

"Feelings are affective states of consciousness, triggered by physiological changes arising from both sensory perceptions and memories in comparison to internally stored norms or ideals. Thinking, or the active comparing and contrasting of data, involves mental states that symbolize physiological changes and can be perceived as such."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeling

Ahnimus

Ok, first off, I'm going to let everyone have their own delusions so I don't get chewed out by the board again.

Personally, I don't think it is "logic vs feeling" I think "feeling is logic with the absence of the unknown." Thinking logically we can say, well we don't know what we don't know. Thinking intuitively we don't make that consideration. Emotion doesn't make that consideration either.

Ahnimus

That's it, you can go back to dreaming now. Sorry to have stolen anyone's sunshine. :cool:

Abookamongstthemany

"Creation seems to come out of imperfection. It seems to come out of a striving and a frustration, and I think this is where language came from. I mean, it came from our desire to transcend our isolation and have some sort of connection with one another. And it had to be easy when it was just simple survival; like, 'water' or 'sabre-tooth tiger right behind you'-- we came up with a sound for that. But what I think is really interesting is how we use the same symbols to communicate the abstract, intangible things that we're experiencing. Like, what is frustration? Or what is anger, or love? When I say 'love', the sound comes out of my mouth and hits the other person's ear, travels through this byzantine conduit in their brain, through their memories of love--or lack of love--and they register what I am saying and they say yes, they understand. But how do I know they understand? Because words are inert. They're just symbols. They're dead. And so much of our experience is intangible. So much of what we perceive can not be expressed; it's unspeakable. And yet, when we communicate with one another, and we feel that we have connected and we think we're understood, I think we have a feeling of almost spiritual communion. And I think that feeling might be transceived, but I think it's what we live for." -Waking Life

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

Ok, first off, I'm going to let everyone have their own delusions so I don't get chewed out by the board again.

Personally, I don't think it is "logic vs feeling" I think "feeling is logic with the absence of the unknown." Thinking logically we can say, well we don't know what we don't know. Thinking intuitively we don't make that consideration. Emotion doesn't make that consideration either.

sorry, but a guy who uses wikipedia as his bible holds little merit with me. you keep learning about beta cells. im going to use my creative, yet alogical feelings to continue working on my novel: "ahnimus, or the story of a robot trying desperately to rationalize his place in a world with feelings and emotions he cannot understand or quantify."

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

That's it, you can go back to dreaming now. Sorry to have stolen anyone's sunshine. :cool:

what happened to this resolution? couldn't resist more wikipedia research?

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

sorry, but a guy who uses wikipedia as his bible holds little merit with me. you keep learning about beta cells. im going to use my creative, yet alogical feelings to continue working on my novel: "ahnimus, or the story of a robot trying desperately to rationalize his place in a world with feelings and emotions he cannot understand or quantify."

I don't need a reason and I can easily quantify feelings and emotions.

As, I've said before, Love for example, is a cocktail of brain chemicals.

So one individual emits pheramones, which is received by the others Vomeronasal organ in the sinuses (looks like a cherry pit), some psuedo-comparison of DNA is performed, physiological changes occur within the brain, including Dopamine, Testosteron/Estrogen, Oxytocin, etc.. etc..

Ahnimus

I think this question is a funny one "What is my purpose?"

How about "You don't have a purpose."

That's my theory, it doesn't take much deep thought though. I guess people like mystery. We could all be under the whim of some mice too. Who knows, maybe Dolphins are the second smartest species on the planet.

soulsinging

Ahnimus wrote:

I don't need a reason and I can easily quantify feelings and emotions.

As, I've said before, Love for example, is a cocktail of brain chemicals.

So one individual emits pheramones, which is received by the others Vomeronasal organ in the sinuses (looks like a cherry pit), some psuedo-comparison of DNA is performed, physiological changes occur within the brain, including Dopamine, Testosteron/Estrogen, Oxytocin, etc.. etc..

wow, you must have the ladies lining up. keep telling yourself that my friend. whatever it takes to talk yourself into never feeling anything again.

bootlegger10

Ahnimus, you made 5 posts in a row in this thread. Somebody is in an argumentative mood today. I submit that it is you.

Ahnimus

soulsinging wrote:

wow, you must have the ladies lining up. keep telling yourself that my friend. whatever it takes to talk yourself into never feeling anything again.

Actually, I have no problem attracting ladies. They just think I'm not interested in them, because I don't get all giggly and shit.

This hot blonde chick approached me at the work party. She was pretty loaded and she says "you're so beautiful" and I said "ok, what department do you work in?"

I was well aware that my physiological self was wanting to bang the shit out of her. But my greater knowledge told me she is drunk and there are a lot of risks involved with that kind of activity.

There is a major difference between being aware of emotions and blindly acting upon them.

Ahnimus

bootlegger10 wrote:

Ahnimus, you made 5 posts in a row in this thread. Somebody is in an argumentative mood today. I submit that it is you.

Not really, I've only posted on maybe 4 threads. The rest I couldn't care less about. This thread actually has substance. I'm at work, doing work between posts. So I have to keep 'em short.

I could write a 500 page book on this topic.

angelica

Ahnimus, the difference between your "thinking" oriented personality type and my own "feeling" oriented one is that your "type" typically subjectively focuses on impersonal systems, whereas my own type typically subjectively focuses on personal systems. Somehow you assume that your personal preference is more valued, when actually it's just different. It's quite clear that you lose sight that your own personal brain filters alter/distort your objective understanding of all information (like all of ours do), probably because you are not naturally wired to be savvy in understanding such personal systems! Therefore this "blindspot" is clear to others and not yourself, particularly when you are gauging what is "right" and "wrong". You therefore have little tolerance for ideas you do not share or understand. You seems to also think that if you do not understand something--if you do not have a natural aptitude for it, in this case human systems, that they therefore do not exist. It's like the child who thinks when they cover their eyes to "hide", they think others do not see them. When you continue to downgrade that which you do not personally believe to exist continues to illustrate your own lack of awareness and skill with basic emotional/social systems. You apparently don't realize that those who have simple social finesse see that this emotional lack is about you, and not about what you degrade.