I love Micheal Moore...

RockinInCanada

This thread is filled with so many absurd conceptions about healthcare especially coming from those who have never even belonged to this system.

It goes to show why healthcare can never work in America, people are too worried about themselves to think of anyone else. And I can look no farther than this thread as direct proof of that. BTW this does not apply to everyone but I think people can figure that out on their own.

Heatherj43

onelongsong wrote:

i too am ill. my meds exceed $3000 usd per month. but we're not talking about the ill. if you are ill and cannot afford treatment we have medicare and medicaid. the discussion is about healthcare. healthcare for those who don't want to work. but why stop there? why shouldn't the government provide everyone with a place to live? and what about food for those who can't afford it? maybe these layabouts need a car so they can get a job? if so; the government should hand out cars to those who can't afford them.
those who don't like paying the club dues are the ones with their hands out wanting everything free.

The gov't. does provide shelter and food, its called welfare. A car is not a necessity, health care is.
And the argument that social programs are for "those who don't want to work" or people who are lazy is just wrong.
I could argue that all day. Its been argued here a whole lot.
People who say that seem to me to be the ones who want to be a part of this club but not pay into it. Isn't that the argument...that you don't want to pay, but are?

And you did mention medicaid before and said it was for the lazy!!!

Heatherj43

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

This thread is filled with so many absurd conceptions about healthcare especially coming from those who have never even belonged to this system.

It goes to show why healthcare can never work in America, people are too worried about themselves to think of anyone else. And I can look no farther than this thread as direct proof of that. BTW this does not apply to everyone but I think people can figure that out on their own.

At this point, BS is flying...so I am ducking...lol!

RockinInCanada

Heatherj43 wrote:

The gov't. does provide shelter and food, its called welfare. A car is not a necessity, health care is.
And the argument that social programs are for "those who don't want to work" or people who are lazy is just wrong.
I could argue that all day. Its been argued here a whole lot.
People who say that seem to me to be the ones who want to be a part of this club but not pay into it. Isn't that the argument...that you don't want to pay, but are?

And you did mention medicaid before and said it was the lazy!!!

Yeah when did a car become a need...more like a want....where healthcare is a need (as you need it to survive)...you do not need a car to survive.....

EastofEden

onelongsong wrote:

i see you listen to idoits. in case you're interested; someone stole my identity and i transfered everything to my daughter while my attorneys proved it wasn't me. because i did not draw income; i was not required to pay taxes. however; my daughter paid the taxes due. that situation was resolved at least a year ago. the person who stole my identity was dead and burried in poland.
it's hard to get away from inheritance taxes.

Sometimes the "less" information we provide the more it seems plausible.

onelongsong

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

This thread is filled with so many absurd conceptions about healthcare especially coming from those who have never even belonged to this system.

It goes to show why healthcare can never work in America, people are too worried about themselves to think of anyone else. And I can look no farther than this thread as direct proof of that. BTW this does not apply to everyone but I think people can figure that out on their own.

i agree with you. my dad used to hound me about being a philantropist. coming of age during the hippie era i felt it was right to share. but then my daughter went to college. it was in phoenix so it was 92% hispanic; 4% black; and she was 1 of 2 whites in the class. one day everyone got a $15K grant except the two white students. since then i've become one of the most cold hearted selfish people i know. my daughter was singled out because she was white. she was truely the minority in that school but everyone else got the grant. so yes; i'll stand and be counted as one of those that cares only about their own families.

RockinInCanada

onelongsong wrote:

i agree with you. my dad used to hound me about being a philantropist. coming of age during the hippie era i felt it was right to share. but then my daughter went to college. it was in phoenix so it was 92% hispanic; 4% black; and she was 1 of 2 whites in the class. one day everyone got a $15K grant except the two white students. since then i've become one of the most cold hearted selfish people i know. my daughter was singled out because she was white. she was truely the minority in that school but everyone else got the grant. so yes; i'll stand and be counted as one of those that cares only about their own families.

Hey friend now we are talking affirmiative action type crap and I am on board with you there....IMHO if your the best student/and or job candidate it should not matter if your white/black/brown/green....

However I view healthcare as a total separate concept...I am not trying to portray you as cold (because I really believe you are not) I just honestly feel that many people in the USA really miss the boat on universal healthcare because they have never been exposed to it...I have spoken to many Canadians who have worked in States and came back....so they provided a good comparison on the two systems and it seems the vast (actually all lol) majority believe the social system is better for society as a whole....

onelongsong

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Yeah when did a car become a need...more like a want....where healthcare is a need (as you need it to survive)...you do not need a car to survive.....

my community is 12 miles from the nearest town of 200 people. if anyone wants to work they travel 64 miles to the nearest large town. either a car is necessary if one is to work or the government better get some public transportation here. we also don't have mail delivery; so anyone wanting mail must drive the 12 miles to town. if we are equal; why do some have things like mail delivery; paved roads; public transportation; and other social services while others don't?

RockinInCanada

onelongsong wrote:

my community is 12 miles from the nearest town of 200 people. if anyone wants to work they travel 64 miles to the nearest large town. either a car is necessary if one is to work or the government better get some public transportation here. we also don't have mail delivery; so anyone wanting mail must drive the 12 miles to town. if we are equal; why do some have things like mail delivery; paved roads; public transportation; and other social services while others don't?

Well wouldn't a socialized system make a car more affordable for someone because they do not have to worry about absurd healthcare costs/insurance premimums based on their inability (based on the law of averages) of not having an average paying job (because whether you choose to believe it or not there wil always be those less than the average due to lack of great jobs).....that right there is entire boat load of bruden removed from every citizen....imagine no healthcare premiums/the ability to see any doctor/and not need to worry about the bill....hell the amount the average American citizen pays on premimums is more than the tax dollars they would lose.....at the very worst they equal each other....

EastofEden

onelongsong wrote:

i agree with you. my dad used to hound me about being a philantropist. coming of age during the hippie era i felt it was right to share. but then my daughter went to college. it was in phoenix so it was 92% hispanic; 4% black; and she was 1 of 2 whites in the class. one day everyone got a $15K grant except the two white students. since then i've become one of the most cold hearted selfish people i know. my daughter was singled out because she was white. she was truely the minority in that school but everyone else got the grant. so yes; i'll stand and be counted as one of those that cares only about their own families.

Thats poor logic.

I would venture to say that all of the "advantages" she enjoyed as a white girl from a middle (or upper if she was able to go to college) class family far outweighed the one or two "injustices" *eyeroll* that she has received for the same reason.

I tell my daughter that because she is -

1. White (therefore doesnt face persecution based solely on the color of her skin)
2. Living in the USA.
3. middle class
etc. etc....that she is among the top 5% blessed people on this Planet therefore her job in life is to assist those who werent born into such privledge.
Its better to give them a reality check than to make them think they are victims of an unfair world.

onelongsong

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Hey friend now we are talking affirmiative action type crap and I am on board with you there....IMHO if your the best student/and or job candidate it should not matter if your white/black/brown/green....

However I view healthcare as a total separate concept...I am not trying to portray you as cold (because I really believe you are not) I just honestly feel that many people in the USA really miss the boat on universal healthcare because they have never been exposed to it...I have spoken to many Canadians who have worked in States and came back....so they provided a good comparison on the two systems and it seems the vast (actually all lol) majority believe the social system is better for society as a whole....

i've known many canadians and canadians work. i haven't met a lazy canadian yet. that's where the difference is. for example; when i was a teen; there was a woman we used to buy our pot from. she had one of the nicest houses in a chicago suburb yet was on welfare. she cleared at least $3000 a week; extimated from the amount of product i know she moved. until this kind of abuse is dealt with; america will never have socialized medicine.

RockinInCanada

onelongsong wrote:

i've known many canadians and canadians work. i haven't met a lazy canadian yet. that's where the difference is. for example; when i was a teen; there was a woman we used to buy our pot from. she had one of the nicest houses in a chicago suburb yet was on welfare. she cleared at least $3000 a week; extimated from the amount of product i know she moved. until this kind of abuse is dealt with; america will never have socialized medicine.

You will never get rid of free-loaders.

You see that is the difference that makes the "left" and "right" so different...the left believes that it is okay to take up the free-loaders due to the majority of those needing help actually do need it (view it as a necessary sacrafice) and the right chooses to exclude everyone based on the fact the really lazy people do deserve no help because of their lack of contribution to soceity (therefore the shelfish actions of a few cause everyone to loss the help) And the latter is the view of many Americans and yes that is why it will not work.

onelongsong

EastofEden wrote:

Thats poor logic.

I would venture to say that all of the "advantages" she enjoyed as a white girl from a middle (or upper if she was able to go to college) class family far outweighed the one or two "injustices" *eyeroll* that she has received for the same reason.

I tell my daughter that because she is -

1. White (therefore doesnt face persecution based solely on the color of her skin)
2. Living in the USA.
3. middle class
etc. etc....that she is among the top 5% blessed people on this Planet therefore her job in life is to assist those who werent born into such privledge.
Its better to give them a reality check than to make them think they are victims of an unfair world.

we were poor at the time and she was top student in her class; so i should tell her that because she's white; she has to work harder than anyone else. i should also tell her that the persecution she faced as 1 of 2 whites in a hispanic world is because she was cursed by being born white in america.

she gets even now. she's working in a hospital and documents every time a minority messes up; then promptly fires them. everything comes round.

onelongsong

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

You will never get rid of free-loaders.

You see that is the difference that makes the "left" and "right" so different...the left believes that it is okay to take up the free-loaders due to the majority of those needing help actually do need it (view it as a necessary sacrafice) and the right chooses to exclude everyone based on the fact the really lazy people do deserve no help because of their lack of contribution to soceity (therefore the shelfish actions of a few cause everyone to loss the help) And the latter is the view of many Americans and yes that is why it will not work.

i agree; and the right controls the money. there's a woman at my doctors office that receives social security disability; medicare and medicaid. she works under her husbands social security number. i've reported her twice and an employee has reported her once. yet she's still working there. how do we control the abuse without becoming a police state? and; why should i work if i can get healthcare and welfare free? the choice is work and pay for others; or collect a check every month and spend my time fishing.

EastofEden

onelongsong wrote:

she gets even now. she's working in a hospital and documents every time a minority messes up; then promptly fires them. everything comes round.

But *scratches head* THATS WRONG!

So much for "Be the change that you want to see."

Your post is just wrong on too many levels to even address.

All I can say is- try not to view the World from such a victim mentality, instead put that energy into understanding the plight of others and youll be less frustrated.

Google some pics of whats going on in Darfur right now, and suddenly this horrible, unfair Country you were born into will seem more liveable.

onelongsong

EastofEden wrote:

But *scratches head* THATS WRONG!

So much for "Be the change that you want to see."

Your post is just wrong on too many levels to even address.

All I can say is- try not to view the World from such a victim mentality, instead put that energy into understanding the plight of others and youll be less frustrated.

Google some pics of whats going on in Darfur right now, and suddenly this horrible, unfair Country you were born into will seem more liveable.

as a child the only way we ate was to grow and raise our own food. starving is a choice. i recall eating potatoes for a month because my son needed emergency dental work. i remember shooting rabbits and squirrels so my family could have meat. now it's time to help those who helped me.......my family.

EastofEden

onelongsong wrote:

as a child the only way we ate was to grow and raise our own food. starving is a choice. i recall eating potatoes for a month because my son needed emergency dental work. i remember shooting rabbits and squirrels so my family could have meat. now it's time to help those who helped me.......my family.

I have a childhood sob story as well.
(My parents were former San Fransisco hippies)

Raised in "The OC" but the only crappy house on the street.

My Dad killing and cooking my pet chicken so we could eat.

Walking home from school and seeing my one toy with a $5.00
sign on it in the front yard, again so we could eat that night.

Blah, blah, blah.
Yeah, it sucked, but I was still luckier than 2/3 (or more) of the rest of the kids on this entire planet.

When I became an adult, and saw how the suffering of people in 3rd world countries made my upbringing look like Paris Hiltons, I decided to shut up and do what I could to help the true sufferers in the world.

El_Kabong

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

This thread is filled with so many absurd conceptions about healthcare especially coming from those who have never even belonged to this system.

It goes to show why healthcare can never work in America, people are too worried about themselves to think of anyone else.

exactly! it not being 'free' but paid wit T A X E S is the way they are trying to scare the public into not wanting it...they say it's liberals wanting bigger government...but look at republican inventions; the war on drugs (which gets more money that the dept of education, interior and i think even state! the colossal waste of taxpayer $ in iraq.....cut the war on drugs and you could more than pay for healthcare, it's never proven to work except now you can get pretty much any drug in any high school

EastofEden

El_Kabong wrote:

exactly! it not being 'free' but paid wit T A X E S is the way they are trying to scare the public into not wanting it...they say it's liberals wanting bigger government...but look at republican inventions; the war on drugs (which gets more money that the dept of education, interior and i think even state! the colossal waste of taxpayer $ in iraq.....cut the war on drugs and you could more than pay for healthcare, it's never proven to work except now you can get pretty much any drug in any high school

And El_K enters the room, cantcha just feel it....?;)

El_Kabong

EastofEden wrote:

And El_K enters the room, cantcha just feel it....?;)

and now you can feel it disipate as i leave for the corporate plantation :(