Native american Indians try to reclaim land

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Comments

  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    surferdude wrote:
    You may be your own nation but your nation is 100% race based. Reserves grant rights based solely on race.


    which brings up the question:
    should the government be giving land and money to one race solely based on race? isn't that discrimination? let's take back the reservations and let them mix with society like everyone else.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    onelongsong wrote:
    the reservations gave the indians sacred land back to them. they don't have to live on the reservation. in fact a lot leave the reservation and buy land like everyone else. i've heard several say that they live on the reservation because if they leave; the government money stops. on the reservation; they have their own laws and police it themselves. it's almost like they have their own country that they can govern themselves while being subsidized by the american government. the revenue from casinos is staggering. their yearly income may be low on their tax returns but they get a lot of benefits that don't have to be reported as income so their returns are misleading.
    i think they should be given a land without even paying for it. they deserve that.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Byrnzie wrote:
    If your house in Austin wasn't built upon stolen land entrusted to a Native American tribe by way of a lawful treaty, then you've nothing to worry about.
    even if it were built on land that was stolen hundreds of years ago... i'm sorry, i wouldn't move. not unless i wanted to.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • gossardstradlin
    gossardstradlin Posts: 324
    onelongsong wrote:
    which brings up the question:
    should the government be giving land and money to one race solely based on race? isn't that discrimination? let's take back the reservations and let them mix with society like everyone else.

    Already tried with disastrous results in the 50's (I think). Interesting discussion however I do not think the Native Americans were "unevolved". In fact they were much better planters and natural users and conservers of the land than any European in my opinion. Besides so what if they were viewed as savages by Europeans????? I understand about historical perspective and the idea that Chrisatianity and gold was the way to go back then but at the expense of millions of people and the complete wipe out of many races of people?????? How Europeans viewed them doesn't excuse their actions just maybe helps understand them.

    I do not believe giving land already owned back to native groups. I think the Natives got the BIGGEST SHIT END OF THE STICK in the history of the world with all of the treaties the US government broke with them but giving them land back in my opinion would cause more problems.

    The Native Americans have the largest legitimate beef with America out of all the minorities IMO.
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Because natives don't want to live with the white man.

    Are you sure its not actually the other way round? White people don't want to live with the Indians - that's why they have been shunted into reservations by white authorities while the whites enjoy the fruits of the land for themselves.
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • gossardstradlin
    gossardstradlin Posts: 324
    onelongsong wrote:
    same here. they don't have much to complain about.

    Other than pretty much all of their heritage and way of life taken from their ancestors. Really nothing to complain about though, shit they got the Hard Rock and Casinos, what more could a race of people want.
    "She knows there is no success like failure
    And that failure's no success at all."

    "Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."

    "Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
    A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    even if it were built on land that was stolen hundreds of years ago... i'm sorry, i wouldn't move. not unless i wanted to.

    there's a lot of laws that back you. homesteading laws; squatters rights; adverse possession; and possably emminant domain. the government has to do that but if they gave you clear title; they will.
    the government would have to "trade" that property for another.
  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    wait for it....

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=861945d654

    .

    heehee! :D
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    gossardstradlin wrote:
    Other than pretty much all of their heritage and way of life taken from their ancestors. Really nothing to complain about though, shit they got the Hard Rock and Casinos, what more could a race of people want.

    who are you bsing? the indians practice their ancestoral ways as much; if not more than any other people. i lend them buffalo pelts for their winter religious ceremony and give them buffalo toes for another religious ceremony.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Reservations may be one of the worse ideas ever, but one can fix this problem without having everyone else pack up and "move back" to Europe either (or Asia, or Africa, or wherever). "Giving land back" isn't a simple concept to implement. It's a political slogan more than a real solution to the problem of Native poverty.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Restless Soul wrote:
    Are you sure its not actually the other way round? White people don't want to live with the Indians - that's why they have been shunted into reservations by white authorities while the whites enjoy the fruits of the land for themselves.

    It goes both ways. Where did you grow up, just out of curiosity? Not that I am some sort of guru or anything, but my life experiences suggest that it goes both ways. Ivory tower liberals don't have a sniff about white-Native relationships. Not calling you one of these ... Just saying. There is preaching, and there are real solutions that might actually help everyone.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    surferdude wrote:
    They did get the raw end of a deal but there was no malicious intent.

    I can imagine a Nazi saying the same thing about the Polish between 1939 - 1945. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which people need to pull the wool over their own eyes.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    reborncareerist wrote:
    "Giving land back" isn't a simple concept to implement. It's a political slogan more than a real solution to the problem of Native poverty.

    I agree with your first sentence. I don't agree with your second sentence. I think that for the people concerned there is more to this than political sloganeering.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Ivory tower liberals don't have a sniff about white-Native relationships.

    Just as an aside...if 'liberals' live in ivory towers - and I'm not saying that 'ivory tower liberals' don't exist - then how would you describe the place of residence of rich conservative types?
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    onelongsong wrote:
    who are you bsing? the indians practice their ancestoral ways as much; if not more than any other people. i lend them buffalo pelts for their winter religious ceremony and give them buffalo toes for another religious ceremony.
    There's a lot more to their traditional way of life than religious ceremonies.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • rigneyclan
    rigneyclan Posts: 289
    surferdude wrote:
    They did get the raw end of a deal but there was no malicious intent.

    you've got to be kidding me....
    7/16/06 7/18/06
  • rigneyclan
    rigneyclan Posts: 289
    hippiemom wrote:
    There's a lot more to their traditional way of life than religious ceremonies.

    +1

    there's also traditional dances, food, clothing, language...etc. and I think it's pretty sad when a Native American has become so used to Western ways that they completely forget their heritage.
    7/16/06 7/18/06
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    rigneyclan wrote:
    +1

    there's also traditional dances, food, clothing, language...etc. and I think it's pretty sad when a Native American has become so used to Western ways that they completely forget their heritage.
    Also, their entire way of life was based on their relationship with the land ... a relationship that was impossible to maintain with the land they were given.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    hippiemom wrote:
    Also, their entire way of life was based on their relationship with the land ... a relationship that was impossible to maintain with the land they were given.

    My wife is currently reading 1491, by Charles Mann. Pre-contact natives had full-on civilizations ... They engineered crops, they developed the land in ways that were probably superior to those used by Dark Age Europeans. Some native cities had running water, at least down in central/South America.
    This "noble savage" living off the land, in harmony with nature business is by and large an inaccurate stereotype.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Just as an aside...if 'liberals' live in ivory towers - and I'm not saying that 'ivory tower liberals' don't exist - then how would you describe the place of residence of rich conservative types?

    Like you said, I was referring to a fairly select group. The more extreme some of these people get, the more they start to look like those they hate and deem to be "the problem".

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