The apartment I own in a high-rise in England wasn't built on Native American sacred land. Although I could be wrong about this. I'll go check it out right now.
oh nevermind then
but by all means, if this happens, isn't it similar to what's happening in the middle-east? the land was originally israels then solomon's temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. (or was it david's?) by the roman empire. then went to the muslims. then went back to the israelites in the 40's. so now there's this huge battle going on back and forth. i think this land can be shared equally between us all without anyone "owning" it, really.
"this land is my land. this land is your land. from california to new york city... this land was made for you and me."
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
isn't it similar to what's happening in the middle-east? the land was originally israels then solomon's temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. (or was it david's?) by the roman empire. then went to the muslims. then went back to the israelites in the 40's. so now there's this huge battle going on back and forth. i think this land can be shared equally between us all without anyone "owning" it, really.
That is a whole different kettle of fish and far more complicated than your description here. I don't think its really similar to the issue of aboriginal or native american land rights.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
When Carlito de Oliveira returned to the ancestral lands he was forced to abandon 50 years ago in southwestern Brazil, he found the forest had been turned to pasture land.
But the Kaiowa Indian refused to give in. He invaded the ranch with his family in 2001, and has held on despite repeated clashes with police and gunmen.
"This is where my grandfather is buried; I give my life for this land," Oliveira said at the camp outside the farming frontier town of Dourados.
Like Oliveira and his family, more and more of the some 40,000 Indians in this area are abandoning overcrowded reserves where alcohol and drug abuse are widespread to reclaim the land they once inhabited.
Facing overt racism and with little or no political power to improve their plight, their traditional submissiveness is giving way to growing anger.
"They're not going to die like some endangered species without putting up a fight," says Zelik Trajber, chief physician in the nearby Dourados reservation. "If they could organize, they'd be a serious problem."
You may be 'just a dude living in a one bedroom apartment, scraping by' but this dude above sounds like he's got more of a struggle on his hands. He's not talking about his ancestors getting burnt. It was he himself who was driven from his land 50 years ago.
No one here's asking you or anyone else to give a shit. Most people are content to go through life not giving a second thought to the plight of others, or of the wider world. But this is a message board where we come to get some strange kick out of debating various topics, and where hopefully something resembling the truth can emerge. Some people here may be inspired to go on to try and effect change in some way or other. If you're not interested in anything other than being able to scrape by in your one bedroom apartment then great. But why bother contributing nothing but negativity to a thread such as this one, regarding the plight of people about whom you don't know anything?
well, putting it that way... i can agree. hell, i'd even fight with those natives.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
That is a whole different kettle of fish and far more complicated than your description here. I don't think its really similar to the issue of aboriginal or native american land rights.
well, maybe not. but still... it's similar. cause the question is still the same on both sides. "who's land is it?"
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
but by all means, if this happens, isn't it similar to what's happening in the middle-east? the land was originally israels then solomon's temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. (or was it david's?) by the roman empire. then went to the muslims. then went back to the israelites in the 40's. so now there's this huge battle going on back and forth. i think this land can be shared equally between us all without anyone "owning" it, really.
"this land is my land. this land is your land. from california to new york city... this land was made for you and me."
The reason thats such a big fucking deal is because its a Holy Land for 3 diffrent churches. The only reason they fight over who owns, is so they can fight over who gets the revenue.
The reason thats such a big fucking deal is because its a Holy Land for 3 diffrent churches. The only reason they fight over who owns, is so they can fight over who gets the revenue.
put it this way, in the 1940's when Israel was made a nation, all the muslims were practically kicked out of their homes. Let's say this happens here in america as well, all because of what happened hundreds of years ago. Let's say that all americans are kicked out of their homes. If the muslims had every right to retaliate then americans would to. Give the natives all that they'd like but please don't give them my home. that's what i'm saying.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
but by all means, if this happens, isn't it similar to what's happening in the middle-east? the land was originally israels then solomon's temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. (or was it david's?) by the roman empire. then went to the muslims. then went back to the israelites in the 40's. so now there's this huge battle going on back and forth. i think this land can be shared equally between us all without anyone "owning" it, really.
"this land is my land. this land is your land. from california to new york city... this land was made for you and me."
well, i'm sure you're a much more informed person than i am on that subject. but, still. i ain't giving my house away all because of what happened a hundred years ago.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
put it this way, in the 1940's when Israel was made a nation, all the muslims were practically kicked out of their homes. Let's say this happens here in america as well, all because of what happened hundreds of years ago. Let's say that all americans are kicked out of their homes. If the muslims had every right to retaliate then americans would to. Give the natives all that they'd like but please don't give them my home. that's what i'm saying.
yeah yeah, I get ya.
i'm just saying that the only reason its still an issue is the money.
otherwise everyone could come to a happy compromise. sadly its all "you started it, no you started it, an infinim.
well, i'm sure you're a much more informed person than i am on that subject. but, still. i ain't giving my house away all because of what happened a hundred years ago.
If your house in Austin wasn't built upon stolen land entrusted to a Native American tribe by way of a lawful treaty, then you've nothing to worry about.
Because natives don't want to live with the white man.
thats the stupidest thing ive read thus far...that and whoever said its the past let it go....if you think that the native people chose the crap land they live on so they could get away from whitey....i think you should learn your history....also about it being the past....im fairly certain if your entire family had their land taken from them and were sent to some crappy third rate piece of the country you wouldnt let it go either.....
i dont know about the states...but round here we still had residential schools open until like the 80's....residential schools....ya fun....being raped, beaten and having your culture ripped away from you by the people who are supposed to be teaching and nurturing you....
You ain't-never seen no one like me
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
It's race based because it makes "Indian" land different than mine or yours. I can't govern myself on my land and decide to open a casino based solely on my race. It's a race based law any way you want to slice it.
thats because you being of different race doesnt make you a different nation....they are a nation onto themselves...theyre not americans...same as im not technically canadian...
You ain't-never seen no one like me
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
Europeans came over here, committed genocide and stole all the land that was once theirs. In return, what they finally got was to be "allowed" to govern themselves on patches of land that were deemed relatively worthless by the government. You don't really begrudge them that, do you?!
I empathise with their plight but I don't think the way to deal with it is to legislate racism and race based laws.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I empathise with their plight but I don't think the way to deal with it is to legislate racism and race based laws.
But it ISN'T a race-based law! There is no law that says only native Americans can operate casinos. They are self-governing, as we are. They decide what to do on their land, just as we do. We can have casinos if we vote to allow them. It was on the ballot in Ohio last year, and Ohio turned it down. Fine, that's the will of the people. If the will of the people on the reservation to have casinos, that's fine too.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
thats because you being of different race doesnt make you a different nation....they are a nation onto themselves...theyre not americans...same as im not technically canadian...
Well if you want to be your own nation start with your own currency and stop accepting money from Canada. Just decide what you want and live accordingly, same for Quebec. Canada is happy to have you as a part of it and better for it. But being part of Canada means accepting some rules and responsibilities that go along with your rights and priviledges. One of those responsibilities is living with Canada's commitment to the United Nations on Human Rights and not having race based laws. I'm all right if you don't want to live this way but it also means you don't want to be part of Canada and the priviledges and rights associated with being a part of Canada.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
But it ISN'T a race-based law! There is no law that says only native Americans can operate casinos. They are self-governing, as we are. They decide what to do on their land, just as we do. We can have casinos if we vote to allow them. It was on the ballot in Ohio last year, and Ohio turned it down. Fine, that's the will of the people. If the will of the people on the reservation to have casinos, that's fine too.
What makes a reserve in Ohio not part of Ohio when it comes to respecting Ohio's laws?
Grant to me the rights to do on my property they grant to Indians and then it won't be a race based law. Call my property the Surferdude Nation if you must but treat me as an equal.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well if you want to be your own nation start with your own currency and stop accepting money from Canada. Just decide what you want and live accordingly, same for Quebec. Canada is happy to have you as a part of it and better for it. But being part of Canada means accepting some rules and responsibilities that go along with your rights and priviledges. One of those responsibilities is living with Canada's commitment to the United Nations on Human Rights and not having race based laws. I'm all right if you don't want to live this way but it also means you don't want to be part of Canada and the priviledges and rights associated with being a part of Canada.
I don't know how it works in Canada, but here it's not much different than them being a separate state. All the states are part of the U.S., they all use U.S. currency, but they make decisions on most issues for themselves. Michigan allows gambling, Ohio doesn't, some reservations have casinos, some don't. I don't see what the big deal is at all. Canada may do things differently though, I can't speak to that.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I don't know how it works in Canada, but here it's not much different than them being a separate state. All the states are part of the U.S., they all use U.S. currency, but they make decisions on most issues for themselves. Michigan allows gambling, Ohio doesn't, some reservations have casinos, some don't. I don't see what the big deal is at all. Canada may do things differently though, I can't speak to that.
It's wrong because it's all based on race. I do not know about in the US but in Canada if I moved onto a reserve I could not own property there and I would forfeit municipal level voting rights while still being obliged to pay taxes. That's taxation without representation based 100% on race. It's wrong. Most of it goes back to when treaties were signed when we were okay being a racist society and we had no problem with race based laws. I would have hoped that we had gotten to the point as a society where we are not okay with race based laws.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
It's wrong because it's all based on race. I do not know about in the US but in Canada if I moved onto a reserve I could not own property there and I would forfeit municipal level voting rights while still being obliged to pay taxes. That's taxation without representation based 100% on race. It's wrong. Most of it goes back to when treaties were signed when we were okay being a racist society and we had no problem with race based laws. I would have hoped that we had gotten to the point as a society where we are not okay with race based laws.
Whatever. Europeans came here, did their level best to exterminate the native population, herded the ones who survived onto some of the worst plots of land in the nation, and "allowed" them to self-govern. Oh my, wasn't that ever so gracious of us! What a wonderful trade they got, giving up their lives, their lands, their way of life, in exchange for being permitted to make their own laws on their desolate bit of property. Probably not a day goes by that they don't think how lucky they are.
I think they got a raw deal and I don't begrudge them anything. I'm glad some of the tribes are doing well financially. I sure don't feel like I'm being discriminated against.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I think they got a raw deal and I don't begrudge them anything. I'm glad some of the tribes are doing well financially. I sure don't feel like I'm being discriminated against.
They did get the raw end of a deal but there was no malicious intent. I'm all for making the best future for all. Race based laws will never lead to the best future.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Nothing to do with the white man? Why the need for the reservations in the first place?!
the reservations gave the indians sacred land back to them. they don't have to live on the reservation. in fact a lot leave the reservation and buy land like everyone else. i've heard several say that they live on the reservation because if they leave; the government money stops. on the reservation; they have their own laws and police it themselves. it's almost like they have their own country that they can govern themselves while being subsidized by the american government. the revenue from casinos is staggering. their yearly income may be low on their tax returns but they get a lot of benefits that don't have to be reported as income so their returns are misleading.
the reservations gave the indians sacred land back to them.
Native Americans were moved hundreds of miles from their sacred land to places that contained some of the worst land in the nation.
I'm sure that some don't mind living on reservations, but many are too poor to move else where. Like I said earlier as an example: The Pine Ridge Lakota Reservation has an unemployment rate of over 70%! It's been like this for many years, and the US government is doing practically nothing to help. Also, the average family income in that reservation is $3,000! (poverty line is $19,000 and under).
Native Americans were moved hundreds of miles from their sacred land to places that contained some of the worst land in the nation.
I'm sure that some don't mind living on reservations, but many are too poor to move else where. Like I said earlier as an example: The Pine Ridge Lakota Reservation has an unemployment rate of over 70%! It's been like this for many years, and the US government is doing practically nothing to help. Also, the average family income in that reservation is $3,000! (poverty line is $19,000 and under).
there are people starving all over the country. poverty doesn't discriminate between race; colour; or creed. i don't see your point.
Couldn't help but be intrigued by this. I don't know if its been posted already since I don't have the time to read all of them but down here in Florida the Seminole tribe is doing fairly well for itself. I don't know how many of you know this but they just purchased the entire Hard Rock franchise a few months ago. The only one they don't own is in Las Vegas. Also, as part of the deal they got the 'Hard Rock Vault' which means they probably own more Pearl Jam memorabilia than everyone on this board combined.
Also I don't know if this has been posted either but according to law, property on reservations can only be sold to other members of that tribe and no outsiders. This is a good reason why a lot of native americans are now using the money that is coming in from the casinos to buy prime real estate in places like New York City and not improving the reservations.
I'm not saying all the tribes are doing well but the Seminole's don't have too many complaints right now.
Couldn't help but be intrigued by this. I don't know if its been posted already since I don't have the time to read all of them but down here in Florida the Seminole tribe is doing fairly well for itself. I don't know how many of you know this but they just purchased the entire Hard Rock franchise a few months ago. The only one they don't own is in Las Vegas. Also, as part of the deal they got the 'Hard Rock Vault' which means they probably own more Pearl Jam memorabilia than everyone on this board combined.
Also I don't know if this has been posted either but according to law, property on reservations can only be sold to other members of that tribe and no outsiders. This is a good reason why a lot of native americans are now using the money that is coming in from the casinos to buy prime real estate in places like New York City and not improving the reservations.
I'm not saying all the tribes are doing well but the Seminole's don't have too many complaints right now.
same here. they don't have much to complain about.
Comments
but by all means, if this happens, isn't it similar to what's happening in the middle-east? the land was originally israels then solomon's temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. (or was it david's?) by the roman empire. then went to the muslims. then went back to the israelites in the 40's. so now there's this huge battle going on back and forth. i think this land can be shared equally between us all without anyone "owning" it, really.
"this land is my land. this land is your land. from california to new york city... this land was made for you and me."
That is a whole different kettle of fish and far more complicated than your description here. I don't think its really similar to the issue of aboriginal or native american land rights.
-C Addison
Don't get me started on the Middle East!
i'm just saying that the only reason its still an issue is the money.
otherwise everyone could come to a happy compromise. sadly its all "you started it, no you started it, an infinim.
i spelled it wrong LOL!
If your house in Austin wasn't built upon stolen land entrusted to a Native American tribe by way of a lawful treaty, then you've nothing to worry about.
To get into popular dining establishments?
thats the stupidest thing ive read thus far...that and whoever said its the past let it go....if you think that the native people chose the crap land they live on so they could get away from whitey....i think you should learn your history....also about it being the past....im fairly certain if your entire family had their land taken from them and were sent to some crappy third rate piece of the country you wouldnt let it go either.....
i dont know about the states...but round here we still had residential schools open until like the 80's....residential schools....ya fun....being raped, beaten and having your culture ripped away from you by the people who are supposed to be teaching and nurturing you....
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
thats because you being of different race doesnt make you a different nation....they are a nation onto themselves...theyre not americans...same as im not technically canadian...
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Grant to me the rights to do on my property they grant to Indians and then it won't be a race based law. Call my property the Surferdude Nation if you must but treat me as an equal.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I think they got a raw deal and I don't begrudge them anything. I'm glad some of the tribes are doing well financially. I sure don't feel like I'm being discriminated against.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the reservations gave the indians sacred land back to them. they don't have to live on the reservation. in fact a lot leave the reservation and buy land like everyone else. i've heard several say that they live on the reservation because if they leave; the government money stops. on the reservation; they have their own laws and police it themselves. it's almost like they have their own country that they can govern themselves while being subsidized by the american government. the revenue from casinos is staggering. their yearly income may be low on their tax returns but they get a lot of benefits that don't have to be reported as income so their returns are misleading.
Native Americans were moved hundreds of miles from their sacred land to places that contained some of the worst land in the nation.
I'm sure that some don't mind living on reservations, but many are too poor to move else where. Like I said earlier as an example: The Pine Ridge Lakota Reservation has an unemployment rate of over 70%! It's been like this for many years, and the US government is doing practically nothing to help. Also, the average family income in that reservation is $3,000! (poverty line is $19,000 and under).
there are people starving all over the country. poverty doesn't discriminate between race; colour; or creed. i don't see your point.
Also I don't know if this has been posted either but according to law, property on reservations can only be sold to other members of that tribe and no outsiders. This is a good reason why a lot of native americans are now using the money that is coming in from the casinos to buy prime real estate in places like New York City and not improving the reservations.
I'm not saying all the tribes are doing well but the Seminole's don't have too many complaints right now.
same here. they don't have much to complain about.