They did get the raw end of a deal but there was no malicious intent. I'm all for making the best future for all. Race based laws will never lead to the best future.
no malicious intent?!?! you say a lot of ridiculous things, but this one might take the cake.
no malicious intent?!?! you say a lot of ridiculous things, but this one might take the cake.
The world view at that time is that they were savages. They were treated accordingly. You cannot apply our today's standards to yesterday's actions. But don't worry, unevolved people 500 years from now will try to apply their standards to you and find you to be completely lacking as a human being as well.
"You may say a lot of ill thought things, but this one might take the cake.".
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well if you want to be your own nation start with your own currency and stop accepting money from Canada. Just decide what you want and live accordingly, same for Quebec. Canada is happy to have you as a part of it and better for it. But being part of Canada means accepting some rules and responsibilities that go along with your rights and priviledges. One of those responsibilities is living with Canada's commitment to the United Nations on Human Rights and not having race based laws. I'm all right if you don't want to live this way but it also means you don't want to be part of Canada and the priviledges and rights associated with being a part of Canada.
again not race based....and we are our own nation....and likewise feel free to pay up on land claims....as well as forwarding all cash, taxes of any sort made off the illegally occupied land all these years....and in ontario, canadas case....moving whole cities off of land already deeded many moons ago all along the grand river....6 miles either side.....
You ain't-never seen no one like me
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
The world view at that time is that they were savages. They were treated accordingly. You cannot apply our today's standards to yesterday's actions. But don't worry, unevolved people 500 years from now will try to apply their standards to you and find you to be completely lacking as a human being as well.
"You may say a lot of ill thought things, but this one might take the cake.".
wow...unevolved? seems our unevolved asses saved some sailor and his crews superior asses from dying....and were repaid with raping and pillaging.....
You ain't-never seen no one like me
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
The world view at that time is that they were savages. They were treated accordingly. You cannot apply our today's standards to yesterday's actions. But don't worry, unevolved people 500 years from now will try to apply their standards to you and find you to be completely lacking as a human being as well.
"You may say a lot of ill thought things, but this one might take the cake.".
forget about starting your own nation, because you already live in your own little nonsensical world. it's sad that you understand very little outside of it.
there is still discrimination against native peoples today, and there is is still a culture that exists in the americas that looks down upon them. horrible atrocities have been committed in this century. recognition as human beings has only happened in this century, and some are still fighting for it in the minds of some backwards people who claim to be "human".
The world view at that time is that they were savages. They were treated accordingly. You cannot apply our today's standards to yesterday's actions. But don't worry, unevolved people 500 years from now will try to apply their standards to you and find you to be completely lacking as a human being as well.
"You may say a lot of ill thought things, but this one might take the cake.".
when explorers came through and were killed; and women raped and killed along with their children; for no apparent cause; it's easy to view people as savages. but we too acted as savages. we kicked their asses and they signed a treaty accepting what they got. if they think they're going to give us worthless wilderness and now want developed land back; they can pay for it or we'll kick their asses again and renegotiate the treaties.
i know it sounds heartless but any uprising will be dealt with according to the law.
there is still discrimination against native peoples today, and there is is still a culture that exists in the americas that looks down upon them. horrible atrocities have been committed in this century. recognition as human beings has only happened in this century, and some are still fighting for it in the minds of some backwards people who claim to be "human".
I agree with all you say. But you cannot apply today's standards to yesterday's events. There was no malicious intent. At that time Indains unfortunately were thought of as savages and treated accordingly. Next thing I know you'll be calling Alexander Graham Bell a dumb ass for only inventing the phone and not the cellular phone. Or why couldn't Ford have invented the hydrogen fuel cell while he was at it.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
again not race based....and we are our own nation....and likewise feel free to pay up on land claims....as well as forwarding all cash, taxes of any sort made off the illegally occupied land all these years....and in ontario, canadas case....moving whole cities off of land already deeded many moons ago all along the grand river....6 miles either side.....
BC has spent over a Billion dollars trying to settle land claims. That's a Billion dollars just in the negotiations. I see a lot more effort being put forth by the BC government to solve the issue than I do on the negotiating tribes.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You may be your own nation but your nation is 100% race based. Reserves grant rights based solely on race.
which brings up the question:
should the government be giving land and money to one race solely based on race? isn't that discrimination? let's take back the reservations and let them mix with society like everyone else.
the reservations gave the indians sacred land back to them. they don't have to live on the reservation. in fact a lot leave the reservation and buy land like everyone else. i've heard several say that they live on the reservation because if they leave; the government money stops. on the reservation; they have their own laws and police it themselves. it's almost like they have their own country that they can govern themselves while being subsidized by the american government. the revenue from casinos is staggering. their yearly income may be low on their tax returns but they get a lot of benefits that don't have to be reported as income so their returns are misleading.
i think they should be given a land without even paying for it. they deserve that.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
If your house in Austin wasn't built upon stolen land entrusted to a Native American tribe by way of a lawful treaty, then you've nothing to worry about.
even if it were built on land that was stolen hundreds of years ago... i'm sorry, i wouldn't move. not unless i wanted to.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
which brings up the question:
should the government be giving land and money to one race solely based on race? isn't that discrimination? let's take back the reservations and let them mix with society like everyone else.
Already tried with disastrous results in the 50's (I think). Interesting discussion however I do not think the Native Americans were "unevolved". In fact they were much better planters and natural users and conservers of the land than any European in my opinion. Besides so what if they were viewed as savages by Europeans????? I understand about historical perspective and the idea that Chrisatianity and gold was the way to go back then but at the expense of millions of people and the complete wipe out of many races of people?????? How Europeans viewed them doesn't excuse their actions just maybe helps understand them.
I do not believe giving land already owned back to native groups. I think the Natives got the BIGGEST SHIT END OF THE STICK in the history of the world with all of the treaties the US government broke with them but giving them land back in my opinion would cause more problems.
The Native Americans have the largest legitimate beef with America out of all the minorities IMO.
"She knows there is no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Because natives don't want to live with the white man.
Are you sure its not actually the other way round? White people don't want to live with the Indians - that's why they have been shunted into reservations by white authorities while the whites enjoy the fruits of the land for themselves.
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
same here. they don't have much to complain about.
Other than pretty much all of their heritage and way of life taken from their ancestors. Really nothing to complain about though, shit they got the Hard Rock and Casinos, what more could a race of people want.
"She knows there is no success like failure
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
even if it were built on land that was stolen hundreds of years ago... i'm sorry, i wouldn't move. not unless i wanted to.
there's a lot of laws that back you. homesteading laws; squatters rights; adverse possession; and possably emminant domain. the government has to do that but if they gave you clear title; they will.
the government would have to "trade" that property for another.
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan --- London, Brixton, 14 July 1993 London, Wembley, 1996 London, Wembley, 18 June 2007 London, O2, 18 August 2009 London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012 Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
Other than pretty much all of their heritage and way of life taken from their ancestors. Really nothing to complain about though, shit they got the Hard Rock and Casinos, what more could a race of people want.
who are you bsing? the indians practice their ancestoral ways as much; if not more than any other people. i lend them buffalo pelts for their winter religious ceremony and give them buffalo toes for another religious ceremony.
Reservations may be one of the worse ideas ever, but one can fix this problem without having everyone else pack up and "move back" to Europe either (or Asia, or Africa, or wherever). "Giving land back" isn't a simple concept to implement. It's a political slogan more than a real solution to the problem of Native poverty.
Are you sure its not actually the other way round? White people don't want to live with the Indians - that's why they have been shunted into reservations by white authorities while the whites enjoy the fruits of the land for themselves.
It goes both ways. Where did you grow up, just out of curiosity? Not that I am some sort of guru or anything, but my life experiences suggest that it goes both ways. Ivory tower liberals don't have a sniff about white-Native relationships. Not calling you one of these ... Just saying. There is preaching, and there are real solutions that might actually help everyone.
They did get the raw end of a deal but there was no malicious intent.
I can imagine a Nazi saying the same thing about the Polish between 1939 - 1945. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which people need to pull the wool over their own eyes.
"Giving land back" isn't a simple concept to implement. It's a political slogan more than a real solution to the problem of Native poverty.
I agree with your first sentence. I don't agree with your second sentence. I think that for the people concerned there is more to this than political sloganeering.
Ivory tower liberals don't have a sniff about white-Native relationships.
Just as an aside...if 'liberals' live in ivory towers - and I'm not saying that 'ivory tower liberals' don't exist - then how would you describe the place of residence of rich conservative types?
who are you bsing? the indians practice their ancestoral ways as much; if not more than any other people. i lend them buffalo pelts for their winter religious ceremony and give them buffalo toes for another religious ceremony.
There's a lot more to their traditional way of life than religious ceremonies.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
There's a lot more to their traditional way of life than religious ceremonies.
+1
there's also traditional dances, food, clothing, language...etc. and I think it's pretty sad when a Native American has become so used to Western ways that they completely forget their heritage.
there's also traditional dances, food, clothing, language...etc. and I think it's pretty sad when a Native American has become so used to Western ways that they completely forget their heritage.
Also, their entire way of life was based on their relationship with the land ... a relationship that was impossible to maintain with the land they were given.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Also, their entire way of life was based on their relationship with the land ... a relationship that was impossible to maintain with the land they were given.
My wife is currently reading 1491, by Charles Mann. Pre-contact natives had full-on civilizations ... They engineered crops, they developed the land in ways that were probably superior to those used by Dark Age Europeans. Some native cities had running water, at least down in central/South America.
This "noble savage" living off the land, in harmony with nature business is by and large an inaccurate stereotype.
Just as an aside...if 'liberals' live in ivory towers - and I'm not saying that 'ivory tower liberals' don't exist - then how would you describe the place of residence of rich conservative types?
Like you said, I was referring to a fairly select group. The more extreme some of these people get, the more they start to look like those they hate and deem to be "the problem".
Comments
Hitler modeled his concentration camps after America's Indian/Slave Concentration Camps.
just some trivia
no malicious intent?!?! you say a lot of ridiculous things, but this one might take the cake.
"You may say a lot of ill thought things, but this one might take the cake.".
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
again not race based....and we are our own nation....and likewise feel free to pay up on land claims....as well as forwarding all cash, taxes of any sort made off the illegally occupied land all these years....and in ontario, canadas case....moving whole cities off of land already deeded many moons ago all along the grand river....6 miles either side.....
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
wow...unevolved? seems our unevolved asses saved some sailor and his crews superior asses from dying....and were repaid with raping and pillaging.....
Prevail-regardless what the cost might be
Power-flows inside of me, you can't bring me
Never-fall as long as I try
Refuse-to be a part of your lie
Even-if it means I die, you can't bring me
You...can't...bring...me...down!
forget about starting your own nation, because you already live in your own little nonsensical world. it's sad that you understand very little outside of it.
there is still discrimination against native peoples today, and there is is still a culture that exists in the americas that looks down upon them. horrible atrocities have been committed in this century. recognition as human beings has only happened in this century, and some are still fighting for it in the minds of some backwards people who claim to be "human".
when explorers came through and were killed; and women raped and killed along with their children; for no apparent cause; it's easy to view people as savages. but we too acted as savages. we kicked their asses and they signed a treaty accepting what they got. if they think they're going to give us worthless wilderness and now want developed land back; they can pay for it or we'll kick their asses again and renegotiate the treaties.
i know it sounds heartless but any uprising will be dealt with according to the law.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
which brings up the question:
should the government be giving land and money to one race solely based on race? isn't that discrimination? let's take back the reservations and let them mix with society like everyone else.
Already tried with disastrous results in the 50's (I think). Interesting discussion however I do not think the Native Americans were "unevolved". In fact they were much better planters and natural users and conservers of the land than any European in my opinion. Besides so what if they were viewed as savages by Europeans????? I understand about historical perspective and the idea that Chrisatianity and gold was the way to go back then but at the expense of millions of people and the complete wipe out of many races of people?????? How Europeans viewed them doesn't excuse their actions just maybe helps understand them.
I do not believe giving land already owned back to native groups. I think the Natives got the BIGGEST SHIT END OF THE STICK in the history of the world with all of the treaties the US government broke with them but giving them land back in my opinion would cause more problems.
The Native Americans have the largest legitimate beef with America out of all the minorities IMO.
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
Are you sure its not actually the other way round? White people don't want to live with the Indians - that's why they have been shunted into reservations by white authorities while the whites enjoy the fruits of the land for themselves.
---
London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
Other than pretty much all of their heritage and way of life taken from their ancestors. Really nothing to complain about though, shit they got the Hard Rock and Casinos, what more could a race of people want.
And that failure's no success at all."
"Don't ya think its sometimes wise not to grow up."
"Cause life ain't nothing but a good groove
A good mixed tape to put you in the right mood."
there's a lot of laws that back you. homesteading laws; squatters rights; adverse possession; and possably emminant domain. the government has to do that but if they gave you clear title; they will.
the government would have to "trade" that property for another.
heehee!
---
London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
who are you bsing? the indians practice their ancestoral ways as much; if not more than any other people. i lend them buffalo pelts for their winter religious ceremony and give them buffalo toes for another religious ceremony.
It goes both ways. Where did you grow up, just out of curiosity? Not that I am some sort of guru or anything, but my life experiences suggest that it goes both ways. Ivory tower liberals don't have a sniff about white-Native relationships. Not calling you one of these ... Just saying. There is preaching, and there are real solutions that might actually help everyone.
I can imagine a Nazi saying the same thing about the Polish between 1939 - 1945. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which people need to pull the wool over their own eyes.
I agree with your first sentence. I don't agree with your second sentence. I think that for the people concerned there is more to this than political sloganeering.
Just as an aside...if 'liberals' live in ivory towers - and I'm not saying that 'ivory tower liberals' don't exist - then how would you describe the place of residence of rich conservative types?
you've got to be kidding me....
+1
there's also traditional dances, food, clothing, language...etc. and I think it's pretty sad when a Native American has become so used to Western ways that they completely forget their heritage.
My wife is currently reading 1491, by Charles Mann. Pre-contact natives had full-on civilizations ... They engineered crops, they developed the land in ways that were probably superior to those used by Dark Age Europeans. Some native cities had running water, at least down in central/South America.
This "noble savage" living off the land, in harmony with nature business is by and large an inaccurate stereotype.
Like you said, I was referring to a fairly select group. The more extreme some of these people get, the more they start to look like those they hate and deem to be "the problem".