Native american Indians try to reclaim land

Restless Soul
Restless Soul Posts: 805
edited May 2007 in A Moving Train
Don't know if this has been posted already but I thought this was interesting:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/05/08/indians.land.reut/index.html?eref=rss_latest

Don't know how you guys feel about this but I think they have every right to take back the land their forefathers owned - I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner! I've never understood how people can think that being left to rot on a reservation is ok for one group of people, especially in this day and age.

I wonder if it could happen in the states?
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
---
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London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
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Comments

  • rigneyclan
    rigneyclan Posts: 289
    Good to know. Reservations are prison camps. It's been long overdue.
    7/16/06 7/18/06
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Restless Soul wrote:
    Don't know if this has been posted already but I thought this was interesting:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/05/08/indians.land.reut/index.html?eref=rss_latest

    Don't know how you guys feel about this but I think they have every right to take back the land their forefathers owned...
    I'm not that aware of customs of Brazil Indians but the concept of land ownership was a foreign concept to North American Indians. I know there area I live in has been claimed at a 275% rate by local tribes. So obviously the concept of ownership did not exist prior to about 1600. So I always find Indians now claiming ownership as a perverse catch-22 for them.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    it'll be hard in america. past laws such as homesteading etc will make it hard to do.
  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm not that aware of customs of Brazil Indians but the concept of land ownership was a foreign concept to North American Indians. I know there area I live in has been claimed at a 275% rate by local tribes. So obviously the concept of ownership did not exist prior to about 1600. So I always find Indians now claiming ownership as a perverse catch-22 for them.

    So are you saying that mean North american indians would not be able to claim any land because of their own attitude towards land ownership? What about after 1600 - do they not have any rights then?
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • sourdough
    sourdough Posts: 579
    onelongsong wrote:
    it'll be hard in america. past laws such as homesteading etc will make it hard to do.
    That said, the Royal Proclamation promised the entire Ohio River Valley to the FN exclusively and was never repealed.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Restless Soul wrote:
    So are you saying that mean North american indians would not be able to claim any land because of their own attitude towards land ownership? What about after 1600 - do they not have any rights then?
    I'm not professing to have answers. But you can see that there is a problem when the same piece of land is being claimed by 5 tribes as their ancesteral land.

    I didn't create the mess and truthfully I'm not that interested in spending time or energy in trying to clean up the mess when the people you are dealing with had unresolved land issues to start with.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Natives can work and buy property just as well as anyone else can.

    Fuck the past, it's water under the bridge. If they want to make progress, they need to take a step forward and not back.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    surferdude wrote:
    I'm not professing to have answers. But you can see that there is a problem when the same piece of land is being claimed by 5 tribes as their ancesteral land.

    I didn't create the mess and truthfully I'm not that interested in spending time or energy in trying to clean up the mess when the people you are dealing with had unresolved land issues to start with.

    I'm not sure where I got this but I heard or read somewhere that they believe their home is where their dead are buried.

    Does anyone know if there's in truth in this?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Collin wrote:
    I'm not sure where I got this but I heard or read somewhere that they believe their home is where their dead are buried.

    Does anyone know if there's in truth in this?
    That's how many try to define their ancesteral home. In general North American Indians believed they belonged to the land and not vice-versa. So it places them in a catch-22 when trying to make land claims.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Natives can work and buy property just as well as anyone else can.

    Fuck the past, it's water under the bridge. If they want to make progress, they need to take a step forward and not back.

    someone said that reservations are like prison camps but i live between several here in arizona. they have nice houses and drive nice vehicles. if they live on the reservation they get a monthly check. i'm not saying they have it good but deffinately better than a lot of americans living in campers because they can't find work.
    i don't know how they'd deal with all the money paid to the american indians over the last couple hundred years. surely it was enough to buy the country several times over.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    someone said that reservations are like prison camps but i live between several here in arizona. they have nice houses and drive nice vehicles. if they live on the reservation they get a monthly check. i'm not saying they have it good but deffinately better than a lot of americans living in campers because they can't find work.
    i don't know how they'd deal with all the money paid to the american indians over the last couple hundred years. surely it was enough to buy the country several times over.

    Yup. It's pretty much up to the tyee/chief who gets what from the reparations and casino profits. So some reserves are like prisons, with the chief being the warden. It has nothing to do with the white man.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    onelongsong wrote:
    someone said that reservations are like prison camps but i live between several here in arizona. they have nice houses and drive nice vehicles. if they live on the reservation they get a monthly check. i'm not saying they have it good but deffinately better than a lot of americans living in campers because they can't find work.
    i don't know how they'd deal with all the money paid to the american indians over the last couple hundred years. surely it was enough to buy the country several times over.



    It sounds to me like they are on welfare or something. Do you know how much they get a month?
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yup. It's pretty much up to the tyee/chief who gets what from the reparations and casino profits. So some reserves are like prisons, with the chief being the warden. It has nothing to do with the white man.

    Nothing to do with the white man? Why the need for the reservations in the first place?!
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Restless Soul wrote:
    Nothing to do with the white man? Why the need for the reservations in the first place?!

    Because natives don't want to live with the white man.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • moeaholic
    moeaholic Posts: 535
    this has been going on for a few years now around here (central ny). the native americans have actually been buying land left and right. matter of fact, they made an offer to one of my co-workers, but she said no. they were willing to give her quite a bit of money for some lakefront property, too. all that casino money is just pouring in. plus, they've got around 4 golf courses now, too, at the casino...one of them will be used for PGA events i think starting this year. they're public courses and probably the best ones around here, but the one that's being used for the PGA event is friggin' expensive. i just checked the paper the other day (they had a large 'golf' section) and they had the greens fees listed at $255, for 18 holes. that's more than a car payment for me.
    "PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
    ~Michael Bolton
  • Restless Soul
    Restless Soul Posts: 805
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Because natives don't want to live with the white man.

    What's your evidence?
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Restless Soul wrote:
    What's your evidence?

    I've got none, subjective personal experience, television. Crapola.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Natives can work and buy property just as well as anyone else can.

    Fuck the past, it's water under the bridge. If they want to make progress, they need to take a step forward and not back.
    exactly, hell, i ain't giving them my land. as far as i'm concerned they never lived in my house. maybe their great great great great great great great grandfathers did but not them.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    Restless Soul wrote:
    What's your evidence?

    what's the evidence that they, in general, don't want to live amongst white men? the evidence is called "history". it cost an enormous loss of life on both sides.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    If they want to make progress, they need to take a step forward and not back.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yup. It's pretty much up to the tyee/chief who gets what from the reparations and casino profits. So some reserves are like prisons, with the chief being the warden. It has nothing to do with the white man.


    You sound like you think you're an authority on this subject Ahnimus. The fact is, you don't know what you're talking about. Try learning something about the subject before commenting on it and washing your hands of something about which you know nothing.

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