True, I can't recall Page doing anything as bad as The Frog Chorus. But I think you'll find, you're misquoting the lyrics of Hey Jude, there. I always thought that song just stayed on the right side of oversentimentality, though it's slushy enough in places. I certainly prefer it to the PROFUNDITY (cue neon lights), of Stairway.
Almost certainly misquoting as speaking from a position of could never stand to listen to them at all.
Zep's influence extends far beyond white metal bands. I hear some Jimmy Page in the leads of Dr. Know of the Bad Brains, and they're as punk as it gets. Even Hip Hop artists such as Public Enemy and Cypress Hill have cited Zeppelin as an influence.
You can make a Spinal Tap comparison to just about any band. Even the Beatles had the Rutles. It would be pretty easy to parody Marc Bolan fey folk side as well, if one was so inclined.
For me, it doesn't matter if a song is three minutes, or fifteen. Either can be equally compelling if done right. That's the beauty of music, it can be anything and should have no limits or rules forced upon it.
If you copy T. Rex, you will sound like just as much a dinosaur as if you copy Zeppelin. It's all about taking the influence and doing something new with it. For bands influenced by Zeppelin that are taking that influence in different directions, check out the Mars Volta, Comets on Fire, and Dead Meadow.
I take your points, but I do hear a lot more than Zep, in Mars Volta. I hear Larry Young, Miles Davis, and a lot of Hawkwindy space-rock. It's when they get a bit more formulaic and Zeppy, that they lose their wow factor, for me.
I think, love them or hate them, Oasis and U2 dine out on the most blatant steals from Marc Bolan's Electric Warrior-era riffs. They can sound very stale, yes, but then think of a lot of electro-pop. Not my thing, but I have to say that often, it's straightforward Bolan-boogie, done on a synth and samplers rather than guitar. Zep did draw on many disparate styles, but apart from the odd Page/Puff Daddy thang, do you hear much Zep in "good pop", as opposed to rock? I can hear Bolan in all those NME bands, too. Not my thing, again, but his music is at the backbone of so much new music in different styles. Same with Slade! Those feckas rocked!
Didn't say I hadn't heard any, just that I can't stand to actually listen to it.
I think you had to be there for the Beatles.
I live in Australia so that whole anti-conservative/Thatcher punk thing was always pretty irrelevant to us, though the occasional re-invention means more, eg American Idiot.
I wasn't born til 1964, so was more into rock than pop.
And anyway , does music always have to say something meaningful ?
Steve Vai is like a wild reckless car ride on a hot summer night, exhilarating and fun, probably pointless, but a hoot to do anyway.
He certainly doesn't take himself too seriously or he wouldn't wear the goofy hats. There is enough misery and gloom out there without imbuing all our music with it.
I have my G3 ticket clutched in my grimy little hand, front row, woo hoo, might even wear a funny hat !!!
One of Australia's biggest bands ever was Cold Chisel, and thet sure as shit wouldn't have existed if not for Zep !!
Didn't say I hadn't heard any, just that I can't stand to actually listen to it.
I think you had to be there for the Beatles.
I live in Australia so that whole anti-conservative/Thatcher punk thing was always pretty irrelevant to us, though the occasional re-invention means more, eg American Idiot.
I wasn't born til 1964, so was more into rock than pop.
And anyway , does music always have to say something meaningful ?
Steve Vai is like a wild reckless car ride on a hot summer night, exhilarating and fun, probably pointless, but a hoot to do anyway.
He certainly doesn't take himself too seriously or he wouldn't wear the goofy hats. There is enough misery and gloom out there without imbuing all our music with it.
I have my G3 ticket clutched in my grimy little hand, front row, woo hoo, might even wear a funny hat !!!
One of Australia's biggest bands ever was Cold Chisel, and thet sure as shit wouldn't have existed if not for Zep !!
I wasn't born until 1972, but that still makes me officially on old fart, here.
I see Lennon as Irish, really. I have family connections to him, albeit distant ones, so I've reason to think that.
I didn't say Vai takes himself too seriously, but I did say he only says tweedly-tweedly-tweedly. He is a fretwanker though, isn't he? Have you heard him with Zappa? Zappa links whole tone scales to harmonic and melodic minors, and a bit of aeolian modal playing, all superimposed on the same pedal tone chord (playing with ambiguities between subdominants and dominants) ... and then Vai comes in with his stunt guitar, and just bombs up and down, playing a whole tone scale, quickly repeating himself.
If you want ridiculous virtuosity that is somehow really punk, watch this!:
Funny how things happen, there is a big spaecial on teh beatles on telly at the moment, and I am actually watching to edumakate myself a bit. They were funny bastards in teh beginning, flip sense of humour a lot like mine!!
The humourless Yanks kind of hammered that out of them though.
No expert on Vai really, have a G3 DVD from about 10yr ago, Satriani is much better on that !!
The level, old carrot, was set at ten by Zep !! It's the band that everyone gets measured against, doncha know !!
Actually, you only get to be compared to Zep if you are really fucking good. Even to be compared is a priveleged honour !!
Thank you soooooooo much for that, not sure what is punk about it though !!
Hey, did you know that while they were busy slagging them, teh origial punks like the Clash etc still went to Zep's last concerts. Fucking turkeys !!
Thank you soooooooo much for that, not sure what is punk about it though !!
Hey, did you know that while they were busy slagging them, teh origial punks like the Clash etc still went to Zep's last concerts. Fucking turkeys !![/quote]
I much prefer Led Zeppelin. They just made better music, for me. Also, they were more original than The Stones. The whole idea of Led Zeppelin was perfect and each member was a sheer genius in their particular discipline.
Thank you soooooooo much for that, not sure what is punk about it though !!
Hey, did you know that while they were busy slagging them, teh origial punks like the Clash etc still went to Zep's last concerts. Fucking turkeys !!
It's punk, man. Refusing to play all the cliches![/quote]
The punks couldn't play at all , that's why they didn't play the cliches.
Even I can play punk !! Not that I bother much, except for Green DAy a bit.
Just because the Stones are still around doesn't mean they are the greatest band in the world. Yes, they have influenced many. Yes, people love them.
But in the time Zeppelin had, the body of work and the impact they left behind, in my opinion, far outweighs what the Stones have done over a 40 year span.
life is the study of dyin'
and how to do it right
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Setting aside Robert Plant for a second, it would be hard to find a better guitarist, bassist and drummer in the history of rock and roll than Jimmy Page, John Paul Jones and John Bonham. Not only are they amazing instrumentalists, when put together they worked so well as a band. Thats what makes Zeppelin the greatest rock band of all time. In my mind, the factor that made Zep so great and so powerful was John Paul Jones - not the flashiest bass player ever, but he laid down such a solid foundation along with Bonham that it allowed Plant and Page to go wherever they wanted with what they were doing. It was a complete insult that P&P never took Jones on tour in the 90's - the man is possibly the most underrated musician in the world of rock music.
Just listen to Achilles Last Stand from Knebworth 1979 on the DVD - thats the worlds greatest rock band in action right there. It doesnt get any better than that!
"...though my problems are meaningless....that don't make them go away...."
Just listen to Achilles Last Stand from Knebworth 1979 on the DVD - thats the worlds greatest rock band in action right there. It doesnt get any better than that!
My brother was there. He said Knebworth wasn't a bad gig.
The punks couldn't play at all , that's why they didn't play the cliches.
Even I can play punk !! Not that I bother much, except for Green DAy a bit.
You're not quoting me in that quote; you're quoting yourself.
Punk is an attitude, not a haircut. It's a resistance to tradition. A virtuoso and a clown can do that. Zep tend to consolidate a lot of safe conventions, albeit with polish. When Brian Jones first started mixing up Elmore James slide, with the music of the Master Musicians of Joujouka, no one had done it before. That was radical! That was street! That was punk! But by the time that old session musician Page did it, it was second hand, tried and tested. And very second-wave, distilled and marketed as music for people who don't like music.
True, I can't recall Page doing anything as bad as The Frog Chorus. But I think you'll find, you're misquoting the lyrics of Hey Jude, there. I always thought that song just stayed on the right side of oversentimentality, though it's slushy enough in places. I certainly prefer it to the PROFUNDITY (cue neon lights), of Stairway.
i prefer almost ANYTHING zeppelin did to Stairway to Heaven.
Punk is an attitude, not a haircut. It's a resistance to tradition....
it's about doing what YOU want, when YOU want to do it and doing it in the way YOU want to do it and not giving a toss about what others think. i don't think it necessarily has to be a resistance to tradition. perhaps just coming from a different perspective.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i prefer almost ANYTHING zeppelin did to Stairway to Heaven.
and this is significant how...?
it's about doing what YOU want when YOU want to do it and doing it in the way you want to do it and not giving a toss about what others think. i don't think it necessarily has to be a resistance to tradition. perhaps just coming from a different perspective.
I haven't that much faith in the originality of 99.9% of artists.
Page was commercialising the acoustic breakthroughs of Davey Graham, Bert Jansch and Tumbler-era John Martyn; he used engineer Eddie Kramer to capitalise on Hendrix's studio discoveries; his electic playing reflects his prior career as a session muzak performer, skilled in playing anything put before him, to an extent.
Comments
Well therein lies the problem - I figured the only way you could dismiss such an amazing band is by never bothering to listen to them at all
and they all eat rainbows and pooh butterflies!
I take your points, but I do hear a lot more than Zep, in Mars Volta. I hear Larry Young, Miles Davis, and a lot of Hawkwindy space-rock. It's when they get a bit more formulaic and Zeppy, that they lose their wow factor, for me.
I think, love them or hate them, Oasis and U2 dine out on the most blatant steals from Marc Bolan's Electric Warrior-era riffs. They can sound very stale, yes, but then think of a lot of electro-pop. Not my thing, but I have to say that often, it's straightforward Bolan-boogie, done on a synth and samplers rather than guitar. Zep did draw on many disparate styles, but apart from the odd Page/Puff Daddy thang, do you hear much Zep in "good pop", as opposed to rock? I can hear Bolan in all those NME bands, too. Not my thing, again, but his music is at the backbone of so much new music in different styles. Same with Slade! Those feckas rocked!
Not even this one?
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5966006360709036979&q=strawberry+fields+forever
I think you had to be there for the Beatles.
I live in Australia so that whole anti-conservative/Thatcher punk thing was always pretty irrelevant to us, though the occasional re-invention means more, eg American Idiot.
I wasn't born til 1964, so was more into rock than pop.
And anyway , does music always have to say something meaningful ?
Steve Vai is like a wild reckless car ride on a hot summer night, exhilarating and fun, probably pointless, but a hoot to do anyway.
He certainly doesn't take himself too seriously or he wouldn't wear the goofy hats. There is enough misery and gloom out there without imbuing all our music with it.
I have my G3 ticket clutched in my grimy little hand, front row, woo hoo, might even wear a funny hat !!!
One of Australia's biggest bands ever was Cold Chisel, and thet sure as shit wouldn't have existed if not for Zep !!
I wasn't born until 1972, but that still makes me officially on old fart, here.
I see Lennon as Irish, really. I have family connections to him, albeit distant ones, so I've reason to think that.
I didn't say Vai takes himself too seriously, but I did say he only says tweedly-tweedly-tweedly. He is a fretwanker though, isn't he? Have you heard him with Zappa? Zappa links whole tone scales to harmonic and melodic minors, and a bit of aeolian modal playing, all superimposed on the same pedal tone chord (playing with ambiguities between subdominants and dominants) ... and then Vai comes in with his stunt guitar, and just bombs up and down, playing a whole tone scale, quickly repeating himself.
If you want ridiculous virtuosity that is somehow really punk, watch this!:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=295J6IvQMds
What is this "level" I keep hearing about?
The humourless Yanks kind of hammered that out of them though.
No expert on Vai really, have a G3 DVD from about 10yr ago, Satriani is much better on that !!
The level, old carrot, was set at ten by Zep !! It's the band that everyone gets measured against, doncha know !!
Actually, you only get to be compared to Zep if you are really fucking good. Even to be compared is a priveleged honour !!
can i sign this??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=295J6IvQMds[/quote]
Thank you soooooooo much for that, not sure what is punk about it though !!
Hey, did you know that while they were busy slagging them, teh origial punks like the Clash etc still went to Zep's last concerts. Fucking turkeys !!
This "level" is that at which the Stones aren't at.
I love the Stones but they just aren't at legendary in my mind as Zep.
Thank you soooooooo much for that, not sure what is punk about it though !!
Hey, did you know that while they were busy slagging them, teh origial punks like the Clash etc still went to Zep's last concerts. Fucking turkeys !![/quote]
It's punk, man. Refusing to play all the cliches!
It's punk, man. Refusing to play all the cliches![/quote]
The punks couldn't play at all , that's why they didn't play the cliches.
Even I can play punk !! Not that I bother much, except for Green DAy a bit.
Just because the Stones are still around doesn't mean they are the greatest band in the world. Yes, they have influenced many. Yes, people love them.
But in the time Zeppelin had, the body of work and the impact they left behind, in my opinion, far outweighs what the Stones have done over a 40 year span.
and how to do it right
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
Just listen to Achilles Last Stand from Knebworth 1979 on the DVD - thats the worlds greatest rock band in action right there. It doesnt get any better than that!
My brother was there. He said Knebworth wasn't a bad gig.
You're not quoting me in that quote; you're quoting yourself.
Punk is an attitude, not a haircut. It's a resistance to tradition. A virtuoso and a clown can do that. Zep tend to consolidate a lot of safe conventions, albeit with polish. When Brian Jones first started mixing up Elmore James slide, with the music of the Master Musicians of Joujouka, no one had done it before. That was radical! That was street! That was punk! But by the time that old session musician Page did it, it was second hand, tried and tested. And very second-wave, distilled and marketed as music for people who don't like music.
i prefer almost ANYTHING zeppelin did to Stairway to Heaven.
and this is significant how...?
it's about doing what YOU want, when YOU want to do it and doing it in the way YOU want to do it and not giving a toss about what others think. i don't think it necessarily has to be a resistance to tradition. perhaps just coming from a different perspective.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Compared to Hendrix, we are all dust. That's how.
I prefer Rolf Harris's version.
of course. i should have known.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
9.10.98 NYC / 8.23.00 JONES BEACH /4.30.03 UNIONDALE / 7.9.03 NYC /5.12.06 ALBANY/ 6.1.06 E.RUTHEFORD/ 6.3.06 E. RUTHEFORD/ CAMDEN 6.19.08/ NYC 6.24.08/ NYC 6.25.08/ HARTFORD 6.27.08/ CHICAGO 8.24.09/ PHILLY 10.31.09/ HARTFORD 5.15.10/ NEWARK 5.18.10/ NYC 5.20.10/ CHICAGO 7.19.13/ BROOKLYN 10.18.13/ BROOKLYN 10.19.13/ HARTFORD 10.25.13/ NYC 9.26.15/ 4.8.16 FT. LAUDERDALE/ 4.9.16 MIAMI / 5.1.16 NYC/ 5.2.16 NYC / 8.5.16 BOSTON / 8.7.16 BOSTON/ 8.20.18 CHICAGO/ 9.2.18 BOSTON/ 9.4.18 BOSTON/ 9.18.21 ASBURY PARK
finally, FUCK TICKETMASTER
who wouldn't?
i just don't think stairway is zeppelin's best song.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
really? please explain.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I haven't that much faith in the originality of 99.9% of artists.
Page was commercialising the acoustic breakthroughs of Davey Graham, Bert Jansch and Tumbler-era John Martyn; he used engineer Eddie Kramer to capitalise on Hendrix's studio discoveries; his electic playing reflects his prior career as a session muzak performer, skilled in playing anything put before him, to an extent.
Yep, Zep were derivative. People who think Zep are the greatest of innovators have no sense of music history, and no comparative reference points.