That is one of the most ridiculous things I have EVER heard.....you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Norweigan Wood, In My Life, He Comes The Sun, Golden Slumbers, Blackbird, Long Long Long, Strawberry Fields Forever, Lucy In The Sky, A Day In The Life, Because, Across The Universe, Yesterday, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away, Within You Without You, Tomorrow Never Knows, Revolution 1, Something, I Will etc etc etc etc
Nobody who has ever heard any of these songs would ever make such an insane statement
I think we can better start a Stones Vs. Beatles thread....I prefer the first...don't like the Beatles that much...especially not their first works...
Page is the greatest !! How is "Hats off to Roy HArper" for a lesson in acoustic power playing. Flogs the "nice" fingerpicking in "Blackbird", which lets face it, is so beginnerish.
This is what bores me rigid about so many Zep fans. They think more sophisticated musical technique makes for better art. Well then, shouldn't they be championing Yes or Sky, too? Really, the only sort of forum where you'd find Zep fans in such overwhelming abundance is where the preference is for heavy rock. Most boards would dismiss much Zep as self indulgent, overblown, seventies stadium rock (whilst forgiving the Stones for being the same, albeit with a sense of humour): they'd vote for Slade or Marc Bolan as the best and most beneficially influential of early seventies music, rather than Zep, and they'd be right. Without Slade or Marc Bolan, there'd be no punk, no Nirvana. Without Zep, there'd be no, er, Kiss, no, er, Guns and bloody Roses.
Without The Beatles, there'd be nobody.
And I'd rather listen to Roy Harper, than "Hats off to Harper."
back in the early 70s got 3rd row seats for Zep - never wanted to see Stones but when they get played on the radio always end up singing along - when Zep got overblown they went downhill rapidly so my vote goes
1 early zep
2 Mick Taylor stones
3 early stones
then big gap to
4 later stones
5 later zep
and got to agree with over rated beatles
to me in the sixties they were just a pop band
and had next to no effect on me unlike who yardbirds and the like
but as others have said its each to his/her own....thankfully otherwise would be real boring....now this pearl jam are they any good do you reckon ?????
used to have their album wonder where it went - atleast we're safe here in other music cos reading other threads these PJ fans dont seem to like anyone else much
This is what bores me rigid about so many Zep fans. They think more sophisticated musical technique makes for better art. Well then, shouldn't they be championing Yes or Sky, too? Really, the only sort of forum where you'd find Zep fans in such overwhelming abundance is where the preference is for heavy rock. Most boards would dismiss much Zep as self indulgent, overblown, seventies stadium rock (whilst forgiving the Stones for being the same, albeit with a sense of humour): they'd vote for Slade or Marc Bolan as the best and most beneficially influential of early seventies music, rather than Zep, and they'd be right. Without Slade or Marc Bolan, there'd be no punk, no Nirvana. Without Zep, there'd be no, er, Kiss, no, er, Guns and bloody Roses.
Without The Beatles, there'd be nobody.
And I'd rather listen to Roy Harper, than "Hats off to Harper."
Don't you think that Kurt Cobain worked on his technique ? Just because it sounded de-constructed doesn't mean he was sloppy, otherwise he would have had no consistency. All the great players have great technique.
I dislike the idea that a lack of technique is necessary for great art. That's just lazy and sure don't last.
That whole "bloated, overblown, self-indulgent" thing is just cliched rubbish.
What I love about "Hats Off" is the unrestained energy ,as well as the explosive power of the playing. You can hear the strings vibrating against the body of the guitar. And it was just done in two impromptu takes, so if there is just great technique, then Pagey is a superhero.
Roy Harper was a friend of theirs, and the song is a nod of respect to his unrecognised talent.
As for the Beatles, haven't you heard the story about Bob Dylan bagging Lennon for writing peurile rubbish ??
Haven't heard of Pearl Jam. Who are they?
Don't you think that Kurt Cobain worked on his technique ? Just because it sounded de-constructed doesn't mean he was sloppy, otherwise he would have had no consistency. All the great players have great technique.
I didn't say he didn't have some degree of technique. However, he used his musicianship as a means to an expressive, creative end, and not an end in itself, to masturbate a fretboard pointlessly.
I dislike the idea that a lack of technique is necessary for great art. That's just lazy and sure don't last.
I never said it did. But there's a difference between virtuosos, and artists. Do you know what it is? It's called having something to say about the world around you.
What I love about "Hats Off" is the unrestained energy ,as well as the explosive power of the playing. You can hear the strings vibrating against the body of the guitar. And it was just done in two impromptu takes, so if there is just great technique, then Pagey is a superhero.
Listen to Davey Graham or Bert Jansch if you want spontaneity.
I like fretboard masturbation !!
Dylan went electric cause he could, just cause he started acoustic doesn't mean he was bound to it.
Funny thing, I've noticed that if someone doesn't like a band or player who is good, they always attack their "virtuosity" as an unforgivable flaw.
Fucked if I know why, esp on a PJ board, cause they are good, and do more than a little fretboard masturbation themselves, and I would much rather listen to good musos than shit ones !!
I like fretboard masturbation !!
Dylan went electric cause he could, just cause he started acoustic doesn't mean he was bound to it.
Funny thing, I've noticed that if someone doesn't like a band or player who is good, they always attack their "virtuosity" as an unforgivable flaw.
Fucked if I know why, esp on a PJ board, cause they are good, and do more than a little fretboard masturbation themselves, and I would much rather listen to good musos than shit ones !!
Not so. I'm a huge Hendrix fan. But I hate Steve Vai. Why? Hendrix's Machine Gun and Star Spangled Banner were original, artistic attempts to describe the world as it was. What's Vai ever said, apart from tweedle-tweedle-tweedle?
Same with jazz. I love Mingus's "Fables of Faubus": a virtuosic musical expression of the time, that had a lot to say about racial tensions and politics. But I can't stand Kenny G.
I feel The Rolling Stones defined and described their time. Zep not so much. Certainly not in the UK, anyway.
I've seen them both live...... at least on a bad night Keith stayed onstage, Jimmy, fell off. Zep's concert was miserable and left me extremely disappointed..
'..... Ah! A perfect illustration of the poststructuralist paradox. Does the signifier "Merlot" correspond with the 'truth' of the bottle I polished off last night, or do we hold in our thoughts a different "signified" of bottle-of-Merlot-ness? Perhaps we're dreaming of the same bottle!" -FinsburyParkCarrots
I've seen them both live...... at least on a bad night Keith stayed onstage, Jimmy, fell off. Zep's concert was miserable and left me extremely disappointed..
Not so. I'm a huge Hendrix fan. But I hate Steve Vai. Why? Hendrix's Machine Gun and Star Spangled Banner were original, artistic attempts to describe the world as it was. What's Vai ever said, apart from tweedle-tweedle-tweedle?
Same with jazz. I love Mingus's "Fables of Faubus": a virtuosic musical expression of the time, that had a lot to say about racial tensions and politics. But I can't stand Kenny G.
I feel The Rolling Stones defined and described their time. Zep not so much. Certainly not in the UK, anyway.
Now we're getting somwhere.
So how about a song like "Since I Been Loving You" ? Is that meaningful and does the guitar say something about teh emotion he is feeling, or is it just tweedle tweedle ??
Now we're getting somwhere.
So how about a song like "Since I Been Loving You" ? Is that meaningful and does the guitar say something about teh emotion he is feeling, or is it just tweedle tweedle ??
It's crap. Give me Midnight Rambler anyday.
By the way, I started out playing, as a manic shredder. Then I grew up, and went minimalist.
Zeppelin was true art. They combined an incredibly eclectic range of influences (blues, r&b, early rock n roll, middle eastern and indian music, folk, country, etc) to create a transportative sound that fully absorbs the listener. They were musical explorers who were never content with repeating themselves. As much as I love the Stones, they aren't particularly diverse. To dismiss Zeppelin as "just a heavy rock band" just shows musical ignorance, especially considering a good portion of their catalogue isn't very heavy at all. Songs like Dyer Maker are rhythmically and melodically exciting without relying on the heaviness of something like Whole Lotta Love.
I love T. Rex too, but to claim they made a more important lasting contribution to music than Zeppelin is ridiculous. Page's name belongs right next to Hendrix in that everyone who has picked up a guitar with the intent to learn to do more than play power chords has drawn influence from things he pioneered. Without Zeppelin, there would be no Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Smashing Pumpkins, Jane's Addiction, and many others. The stamp they left on rock music can't be overstated.
p.s. - a true artist knows that minimalism in and of itself doesn't make better music. Some songs need minimalism, some need a virtuoso tearing up the fretboard ala Jimmy Page. The difference between fretbaord masturbation and virtuosic art is in the emotion behind the playing and that is something that was never lacking in Page's best work with Zeppelin. I'd say the only time you could ever argue that Page lacked the artistic fire was in the late 70's when he was too whacked out on heroin. His playing when I saw him on the Plant Page reunion tour in the late 90's had all the fire and drive of the early Zeppelin years shown in the DVD anthology. Page knew how to use minimalism too. There are plenty of examples of this on Led Zeppelin III, Houses of the Holy, and In Through The Out Door.
I love T. Rex too, but to claim they made a more important lasting contribution to music than Zeppelin is ridiculous.
Depends who you ask. A lot of people see a much more rebellious, rock and roll nature in the three minute pop song of the sixties and early seventies. Here's something that's presumably as commercial as it gets, and yet it subverts the teenybopper medium with feats of daring. (Pete Townshend's greatest gift, for me, out of all his great gifts, was his amazing ability to write three minute rock operas, like "I'm a Boy".) I think T Rex had an incalculable influence on British music, from glam to punk and new wave, through all kinds of alternative music. Without Bolan, there'd have been no Bowie, although the two were contemporaries. Zep were much more album/stadium orientated, and influenced the whole white metal scene that was consolidated in the spoof band, Spinal Tap. Their influence was ultimately deleterious: people can take the spirit of T Rex, and even rip off their riffs, but still sound fresh. But if you copy Zep, you sound a bit like a dinosaur. (Maybe this is why Given To Fly is not my favourite PJ track. )
Hendrix didn't think much of Zep, apparently. He preferred Sly Stone.
Zeppelin was the blueprint for punk. They were Do It Yourself long before the DIY ethos was branded and co-opted as punk. Communications Breakdown is a pure punk song, short, succinct and full of fury. Not caring about the mainstream media was a other punk attitude that Zeppelin if not pioneered definitely adopted and made famous long before punk came along.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Zeppelin was the blueprint for punk. They were Do It Yourself long before the DIY ethos was branded and co-opted as punk. Communications Breakdown is a pure punk song, short, succinct and full of fury. Not caring about the mainstream media was a other punk attitude that Zeppelin if not pioneered definitely adopted and made famous long before punk came along.
Nah, Kevin Coyne was proto-Punk. He was on John Peel's Dandelion records at first, as was Bolan. That was DIY!
Nah, Kevin Coyne was proto-Punk. He was on John Peel's Dandelion records at first, as was Bolan. That was DIY!
Led Zep I was released on Atlantic!
They owned their own masters, they self produced and the background on the Atlantic deal is that it was basically just a distribution deal. Atlantic had zero say on the recorded material, single selection or lack of single selection, and Peter Grant pretty much ran the promotions. The only thing I could ever think that punks had against Led Zeppelin was that Zeppelin could all play their instruments well. The supposed hate for Zeppelin was more marketing and branding of punk than reality based. And realistically punk was initially a marketing venture.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
That is one of the most ridiculous things I have EVER heard.....you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
For No One, Eleanor Rigby, Norweigan Wood, In My Life, He Comes The Sun, Golden Slumbers, Blackbird, Long Long Long, Strawberry Fields Forever, Lucy In The Sky, A Day In The Life, Because, Across The Universe, Yesterday, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away, Within You Without You, Tomorrow Never Knows, Revolution 1, Something, I Will etc etc etc etc
Nobody who has ever heard any of these songs would ever make such an insane statement
Anyone who says that kind of thing about the Beatles heard Hard Day's Night and wrote that off as the cream of the crop.
The Beatles were boring until they started doing drugs in the mid sixties.
Zep's influence extends far beyond white metal bands. I hear some Jimmy Page in the leads of Dr. Know of the Bad Brains, and they're as punk as it gets. Even Hip Hop artists such as Public Enemy and Cypress Hill have cited Zeppelin as an influence.
You can make a Spinal Tap comparison to just about any band. Even the Beatles had the Rutles. It would be pretty easy to parody Marc Bolan fey folk side as well, if one was so inclined.
For me, it doesn't matter if a song is three minutes, or fifteen. Either can be equally compelling if done right. That's the beauty of music, it can be anything and should have no limits or rules forced upon it.
If you copy T. Rex, you will sound like just as much a dinosaur as if you copy Zeppelin. It's all about taking the influence and doing something new with it. For bands influenced by Zeppelin that are taking that influence in different directions, check out the Mars Volta, Comets on Fire, and Dead Meadow.
Nah, I think it was "hey jude, you make me sad" that put me off, plus mc cartneys solo stuff was just plain silly.
True, I can't recall Page doing anything as bad as The Frog Chorus. But I think you'll find, you're misquoting the lyrics of Hey Jude, there. I always thought that song just stayed on the right side of oversentimentality, though it's slushy enough in places. I certainly prefer it to the PROFUNDITY (cue neon lights), of Stairway.
You know guys, I'm really open to all of these artists. When I champion ZEp, I'm not putting anyone else down.
Zeppelin started in the same clubs as the STnes, Hendrix, Clapton etc, and just did stadiums casue that's how many people turned up.
The early footage at Albert Hall is the total opposite of "overblown stadium rock", Page in a cute sweater vest shuffling around in his slippers, but PLAYING !!!
Sure they didn't elaese songl;es to promote their albums, or do television, but the reasons for that are well documented, and quite valid.
Personally I love album music over singles and hope that the download revolution doesn't kill them off. Nearlt all my favourite music is obscure and buried in an album somewhere.
Thank you Hendrix78 for saying what I was thinking but couldn't be bothered to argue !!
I used to be a huge STones fan, and still like Tattoo You, Sticky Fingers adn get your Ya ya's out, but am down oon Richards, as I have said, since I read he tried to sabotage Hendrix' career. Very uncool !!!
Plus, a guy who takes a string off his guitar cause it gets in the way does not qualify as guitar god to me !!
GIven to Fly is one of my favourites !!
They owned their own masters, they self produced and the background on the Atlantic deal is that it was basically just a distribution deal. Atlantic had zero say on the recorded material, single selection or lack of single selection, and Peter Grant pretty much ran the promotions. The only thing I could ever think that punks had against Led Zeppelin was that Zeppelin could all play their instruments well. The supposed hate for Zeppelin was more marketing and branding of punk than reality based. And realistically punk was initially a marketing venture.
I don't know. I know a lot of punks who hate Zep sincerely, while knowing their own minds about it... I think they don't like the business of Zep taking themselves too seriously, with all this Crowley bollocks, and the excessively long drum solos (the complaint against which, isn't a matter of disliking Bonzo's musicianship, as much as seeing it as wasteful, look-how-big-my-todger-is showmanship).
Now I've already say I like Zep. Just not in the same way I like a lot of other artists and bands.
Comments
I think we can better start a Stones Vs. Beatles thread....I prefer the first...don't like the Beatles that much...especially not their first works...
♪♫♪♫♫
This is what bores me rigid about so many Zep fans. They think more sophisticated musical technique makes for better art. Well then, shouldn't they be championing Yes or Sky, too? Really, the only sort of forum where you'd find Zep fans in such overwhelming abundance is where the preference is for heavy rock. Most boards would dismiss much Zep as self indulgent, overblown, seventies stadium rock (whilst forgiving the Stones for being the same, albeit with a sense of humour): they'd vote for Slade or Marc Bolan as the best and most beneficially influential of early seventies music, rather than Zep, and they'd be right. Without Slade or Marc Bolan, there'd be no punk, no Nirvana. Without Zep, there'd be no, er, Kiss, no, er, Guns and bloody Roses.
Without The Beatles, there'd be nobody.
And I'd rather listen to Roy Harper, than "Hats off to Harper."
1 early zep
2 Mick Taylor stones
3 early stones
then big gap to
4 later stones
5 later zep
and got to agree with over rated beatles
to me in the sixties they were just a pop band
and had next to no effect on me unlike who yardbirds and the like
but as others have said its each to his/her own....thankfully otherwise would be real boring....now this pearl jam are they any good do you reckon ?????
Yep, they're good. So much more, than just a "heavy rock" band.
Dumpy's Rusty Nuts?
Don't you think that Kurt Cobain worked on his technique ? Just because it sounded de-constructed doesn't mean he was sloppy, otherwise he would have had no consistency. All the great players have great technique.
I dislike the idea that a lack of technique is necessary for great art. That's just lazy and sure don't last.
That whole "bloated, overblown, self-indulgent" thing is just cliched rubbish.
What I love about "Hats Off" is the unrestained energy ,as well as the explosive power of the playing. You can hear the strings vibrating against the body of the guitar. And it was just done in two impromptu takes, so if there is just great technique, then Pagey is a superhero.
Roy Harper was a friend of theirs, and the song is a nod of respect to his unrecognised talent.
As for the Beatles, haven't you heard the story about Bob Dylan bagging Lennon for writing peurile rubbish ??
Haven't heard of Pearl Jam. Who are they?
I didn't say he didn't have some degree of technique. However, he used his musicianship as a means to an expressive, creative end, and not an end in itself, to masturbate a fretboard pointlessly.
I never said it did. But there's a difference between virtuosos, and artists. Do you know what it is? It's called having something to say about the world around you.
You mean Zep weren't overblown or self-indulgent? I thought that was the point of them!
Listen to Davey Graham or Bert Jansch if you want spontaneity.
Everyone and their pet dog knows that.
He was jealous. Don't forget, Dylan went electric. And while Lennon was writing Strawberry Fields Forever, Dylan was writing Quinn The Eskimo.
Dylan went electric cause he could, just cause he started acoustic doesn't mean he was bound to it.
Funny thing, I've noticed that if someone doesn't like a band or player who is good, they always attack their "virtuosity" as an unforgivable flaw.
Fucked if I know why, esp on a PJ board, cause they are good, and do more than a little fretboard masturbation themselves, and I would much rather listen to good musos than shit ones !!
Not so. I'm a huge Hendrix fan. But I hate Steve Vai. Why? Hendrix's Machine Gun and Star Spangled Banner were original, artistic attempts to describe the world as it was. What's Vai ever said, apart from tweedle-tweedle-tweedle?
Same with jazz. I love Mingus's "Fables of Faubus": a virtuosic musical expression of the time, that had a lot to say about racial tensions and politics. But I can't stand Kenny G.
I feel The Rolling Stones defined and described their time. Zep not so much. Certainly not in the UK, anyway.
So how about a song like "Since I Been Loving You" ? Is that meaningful and does the guitar say something about teh emotion he is feeling, or is it just tweedle tweedle ??
It's crap. Give me Midnight Rambler anyday.
By the way, I started out playing, as a manic shredder. Then I grew up, and went minimalist.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
My fav song is When the Levee Breaks - what a classic!!
♪♫♪♫♫
thats my favourite too...in terms of musical talent, i say Zeppelin trumps the Stones but the Stones are defenitely a more productive commodity...$$$
"cryin won't help ya, prayin won't do ya no good"
-Eddie Vedder
I love T. Rex too, but to claim they made a more important lasting contribution to music than Zeppelin is ridiculous. Page's name belongs right next to Hendrix in that everyone who has picked up a guitar with the intent to learn to do more than play power chords has drawn influence from things he pioneered. Without Zeppelin, there would be no Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Smashing Pumpkins, Jane's Addiction, and many others. The stamp they left on rock music can't be overstated.
p.s. - a true artist knows that minimalism in and of itself doesn't make better music. Some songs need minimalism, some need a virtuoso tearing up the fretboard ala Jimmy Page. The difference between fretbaord masturbation and virtuosic art is in the emotion behind the playing and that is something that was never lacking in Page's best work with Zeppelin. I'd say the only time you could ever argue that Page lacked the artistic fire was in the late 70's when he was too whacked out on heroin. His playing when I saw him on the Plant Page reunion tour in the late 90's had all the fire and drive of the early Zeppelin years shown in the DVD anthology. Page knew how to use minimalism too. There are plenty of examples of this on Led Zeppelin III, Houses of the Holy, and In Through The Out Door.
Depends who you ask. A lot of people see a much more rebellious, rock and roll nature in the three minute pop song of the sixties and early seventies. Here's something that's presumably as commercial as it gets, and yet it subverts the teenybopper medium with feats of daring. (Pete Townshend's greatest gift, for me, out of all his great gifts, was his amazing ability to write three minute rock operas, like "I'm a Boy".) I think T Rex had an incalculable influence on British music, from glam to punk and new wave, through all kinds of alternative music. Without Bolan, there'd have been no Bowie, although the two were contemporaries. Zep were much more album/stadium orientated, and influenced the whole white metal scene that was consolidated in the spoof band, Spinal Tap. Their influence was ultimately deleterious: people can take the spirit of T Rex, and even rip off their riffs, but still sound fresh. But if you copy Zep, you sound a bit like a dinosaur. (Maybe this is why Given To Fly is not my favourite PJ track.
Hendrix didn't think much of Zep, apparently. He preferred Sly Stone.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Nah, Kevin Coyne was proto-Punk. He was on John Peel's Dandelion records at first, as was Bolan. That was DIY!
Led Zep I was released on Atlantic!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
The Beatles were boring until they started doing drugs in the mid sixties.
Sgt Peppers, Abbey Road, The White Album...
Incredible!
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
You can make a Spinal Tap comparison to just about any band. Even the Beatles had the Rutles. It would be pretty easy to parody Marc Bolan fey folk side as well, if one was so inclined.
For me, it doesn't matter if a song is three minutes, or fifteen. Either can be equally compelling if done right. That's the beauty of music, it can be anything and should have no limits or rules forced upon it.
If you copy T. Rex, you will sound like just as much a dinosaur as if you copy Zeppelin. It's all about taking the influence and doing something new with it. For bands influenced by Zeppelin that are taking that influence in different directions, check out the Mars Volta, Comets on Fire, and Dead Meadow.
Nah, I think it was "hey jude, you make me sad" that put me off, plus mc cartneys solo stuff was just plain silly.
True, I can't recall Page doing anything as bad as The Frog Chorus. But I think you'll find, you're misquoting the lyrics of Hey Jude, there. I always thought that song just stayed on the right side of oversentimentality, though it's slushy enough in places. I certainly prefer it to the PROFUNDITY (cue neon lights), of Stairway.
Zeppelin started in the same clubs as the STnes, Hendrix, Clapton etc, and just did stadiums casue that's how many people turned up.
The early footage at Albert Hall is the total opposite of "overblown stadium rock", Page in a cute sweater vest shuffling around in his slippers, but PLAYING !!!
Sure they didn't elaese songl;es to promote their albums, or do television, but the reasons for that are well documented, and quite valid.
Personally I love album music over singles and hope that the download revolution doesn't kill them off. Nearlt all my favourite music is obscure and buried in an album somewhere.
Thank you Hendrix78 for saying what I was thinking but couldn't be bothered to argue !!
I used to be a huge STones fan, and still like Tattoo You, Sticky Fingers adn get your Ya ya's out, but am down oon Richards, as I have said, since I read he tried to sabotage Hendrix' career. Very uncool !!!
Plus, a guy who takes a string off his guitar cause it gets in the way does not qualify as guitar god to me !!
GIven to Fly is one of my favourites !!
I don't know. I know a lot of punks who hate Zep sincerely, while knowing their own minds about it... I think they don't like the business of Zep taking themselves too seriously, with all this Crowley bollocks, and the excessively long drum solos (the complaint against which, isn't a matter of disliking Bonzo's musicianship, as much as seeing it as wasteful, look-how-big-my-todger-is showmanship).
Now I've already say I like Zep. Just not in the same way I like a lot of other artists and bands.