The Definitive Zeppelin Thread

yosi1

Skitch Patterson wrote:

No quarter was omitted because TSRTS Version is flawless. No need to try and top perfection...

Haven't seen it (only heard audio of it). But I hear that DVD is kind of weird.

Skitch Patterson wrote:

and the "editing sucks" is actually great editing. Most of the places with cheesy effects are used due to the fact that actual pieces of the video were missing, so they'd have to draw parts out a bit... and other times its actually bootleg videos that Jimmy obtained in order to complete parts where the "official" copy had dry rotted.

I was actually referring to the editing during the Knebworth performance. I think a lot of it is kind of poor in terms of changing cameras and views, and very jumpy. And sure, I understand why the cheesy effects were used, but that doesn't keep them from being cheesy. Overall though, I was definitely FAR from disappointment. I loved this DVD.

Skitch Patterson

yosi wrote:

Haven't seen it (only heard audio of it). But I hear that DVD is kind of weird.

It is. Now THAT's a film with cheesy editing. In general they are kind of hamming it up throughout the whole show... But No Quarter is near perfect.

yosi wrote:

I was actually referring to the editing during the Knebworth performance. I think a lot of it is kind of poor in terms of changing cameras and views, and very jumpy. And sure, I understand why the cheesy effects were used, but that doesn't keep them from being cheesy. Overall though, I was definitely FAR from disappointment. I loved this DVD.

It is mainly the Knebworth show where they did not have all the footage, so in spots where they were stuck using bootleg footage to complete it, their camera shots became limited only to what was recorded by a late 70's audience recording- including filiming of the big screen.

yosi1

Skitch Patterson wrote:

It is. Now THAT's a film with cheesy editing. In general they are kind of hamming it up throughout the whole show... But No Quarter is near perfect.



It is mainly the Knebworth show where they did not have all the footage, so in spots where they were stuck using bootleg footage to complete it, their camera shots became limited only to what was recorded by a late 70's audience recording- including filiming of the big screen.

Cool. Got it. Still haven't seen the entire DVD (its long :D), so I guess the rest is probably even more amazing.

lucylespian

I dunno how old you are yosi, but ya gotta remember that this is the sum totoal of all teh footage that was ever shot of ZEp. This is the day before video captured every waking move of every budding famous person. No Quarter was probably omitted, because there was no other version available, TSTRTS was probably it.
A lot of that cheesy editin, esp teh shadow imafes etc was really cutting edge in teh day. The big screen stuff was really avante agrde as well. We take it for granted noew, but it was relvolutionary at the time.
The performances are truly humbling, as I think you do agree !!!
White Summer, amazing !!
Acousstic stuff, so inspirational !!

yosi1

lucylespian wrote:

I dunno how old you are yosi, but ya gotta remember that this is the sum totoal of all teh footage that was ever shot of ZEp. This is the day before video captured every waking move of every budding famous person. No Quarter was probably omitted, because there was no other version available, TSTRTS was probably it.
A lot of that cheesy editin, esp teh shadow imafes etc was really cutting edge in teh day. The big screen stuff was really avante agrde as well. We take it for granted noew, but it was relvolutionary at the time.
The performances are truly humbling, as I think you do agree !!!
White Summer, amazing !!
Acousstic stuff, so inspirational !!

I am well aware of all this, but it still doesn't change how it is now. Also, I don't think it would have been a big deal to reuse other footage. If it's good, why not put it on. It certainly wouldn't take away from either DVD.

Skitch Patterson

yosi wrote:

I am well aware of all this, but it still doesn't change how it is now. Also, I don't think it would have been a big deal to reuse other footage. If it's good, why not put it on. It certainly wouldn't take away from either DVD.

Why would they release footage on the 2nd DVD that already was available on DVD?

prytocorduroy

I understand this thread is still young, but how the fuck have Trampled Under Foot and The Wanton Song not been mentioned?!
:cool:

yosi1

Skitch Patterson wrote:

Why would they release footage on the 2nd DVD that already was available on DVD?

To make the 2nd DVD better than it would be without it. I don't understand, this kind of thing happens all the time. Its just one song.

lucylespian

yosi wrote:

To make the 2nd DVD better than it would be without it. I don't understand, this kind of thing happens all the time. Its just one song.

I can see your point of view. I guess PAge made a call. There may have been space restictions as well. I agree that No Quarter is an amazing song.
BTW did no see the recent guitar mag that had a CD full of Zep covere son it? It has an amazing Tea for One by Joe Bonamassa.

Skitch Patterson

yosi wrote:

To make the 2nd DVD better than it would be without it. I don't understand, this kind of thing happens all the time. Its just one song.

So should they cut a scene out of Casino, because Goodfellas had a better one?

yosi1

Skitch Patterson wrote:

So should they cut a scene out of Casino, because Goodfellas had a better one?

I think we can both agree that the analogy fails. Goodfellas and Casino are two totally different movies. Plus, you would then lose a scene from Casino, and storyline, and plot, and it would make no sense. This idea just doesn't actually make any sense.
However, if they are doing two DVD's of concert footage, why not include the footage on both. It wouldn't interrupt anything on either DVD and neither DVD would lose anything.
Its like saying that Yellow Ledbetter shouldn't be on RVM, because its on Lost Dogs. Why not just have it on both (which it is, and should be)? Why not have No Quarter be on both DVDs?

Skitch Patterson

yosi wrote:

I think we can both agree that the analogy fails. Goodfellas and Casino are two totally different movies. Plus, you would then lose a scene from Casino, and storyline, and plot, and it would make no sense. This idea just doesn't actually make any sense.
However, if they are doing two DVD's of concert footage, why not include the footage on both. It wouldn't interrupt anything on either DVD and neither DVD would lose anything.
Its like saying that Yellow Ledbetter shouldn't be on RVM, because its on Lost Dogs. Why not just have it on both (which it is, and should be)? Why not have No Quarter be on both DVDs?

Have you ever tried to rip a copy of the zep dvd? Its 100% packed... they would have had to trim something else to fit it on, without question.

and your Ledbetter comparison is more ridiculous than my Goodfellas/Casino comparison... Ledbetter is a readily available piece of music.. It had another, official release. The TSRTS was an officially released live album and movie within 5 years of its recording...

The Led Zeppelin DVD was NOTHING but things that were not otherwise available officially... The MSG stuff on there was only things that had to be trimmed from the film initially (and i would argue that stuff should have been a special feature on TSRTS DVD)... As a long term, obsessive Zeppelin fan, i would have been pissed that they wasted space on the DVD with something that was already out there for 25 years. The DVD was not intended to be a "best of" like RVM, it was closer to Lost Dogs- Shit we recorded, but hasnt really been heard.

yosi1

Skitch Patterson wrote:

Have you ever tried to rip a copy of the zep dvd? Its 100% packed... they would have had to trim something else to fit it on, without question.

and your Ledbetter comparison is more ridiculous than my Goodfellas/Casino comparison... Ledbetter is a readily available piece of music.. It had another, official release. The TSRTS was an officially released live album and movie within 5 years of its recording...

The Led Zeppelin DVD was NOTHING but things that were not otherwise available officially... The MSG stuff on there was only things that had to be trimmed from the film initially (and i would argue that stuff should have been a special feature on TSRTS DVD)... As a long term, obsessive Zeppelin fan, i would have been pissed that they wasted space on the DVD with something that was already out there for 25 years. The DVD was not intended to be a "best of" like RVM, it was closer to Lost Dogs- Shit we recorded, but hasnt really been heard.

I think theres a misunderstanding in our disagreement. I wasn't saying that No Quarter should have replaced something else. I would have just liked to see it added on. Also, I wouldn't have had a preference of what concert it came from. I guess I can understand your point, but I think it would have been nice to have been on there too.

Skitch Patterson

yosi wrote:

I think theres a misunderstanding in our disagreement. I wasn't saying that No Quarter should have replaced something else. I would have just liked to see it added on. Also, I wouldn't have had a preference of what concert it came from. I guess I can understand your point, but I think it would have been nice to have been on there too.

Yes, but you seem under the impression it just could have been added to the DVD... To see it on there, you HAVE to cut something else... The concert only matters because TSRTS is ONLY stuff from MSG.

Its kinda like when you like one whole album, and a song from another, and just try to slide it on the back end.. no matter how good the song is, it just doesnt fit, and if you try to force it on... it hurts the album AND the song.

I love Vitalogy. I love Alive.... but Alive would be out of place on Vitalogy.

Ridin The Wave

danny72688 wrote:

I understand this thread is still young, but how the fuck have Trampled Under Foot and The Wanton Song not been mentioned?!
:cool:

Trampled Under Foot was definitely gonna be on my list.

Mine starts with Ramble On though. No matter what my mood is, that song always fits.

Also on my most played list....

Travelling Riverside Blues
and
The Ocean

There are very few songs that I don't love though.

Ridin The Wave

josevolution wrote:

totally rocked the 2 times i had the pleasure to see them . 1975 & 77 it was beyond electric the anticipation before the show .

There are no words to explain my jealousy. How I would love to sit and chat with you all day about those shows.

wcsmith

Back in the day, when I was in high school (class of '95), I was the guy who was absolutely obsessed with LZ. When I got in a mood to listen to something else, I just put in a different Zep cd. Needless to say, I got burned out after a while. But then, I got a hold of the BBC Sessions in college, which piqued my interest again. And then How the West Was Won and the DVD came out, and I went through a another Zep phase.

I haven't listened to them in a while, but I can give you a list of faves:

How Many More Times
Ramble On
Since I've Been Loving You
When the Levee Breaks
The Rain Song
In My Time of Dying
Ten Years Gone
Hots on for Nowhere
In the Evening
Poor Tom

I could make 5 more lists just like that with different songs and not have any decrease in quality - that makes them the best band in rock history, imho.

To reply to an earlier poster, they are untouchable because they did it first and they did it best. No one since can claim a consistent body of work that sounds so diverse, and maintain excellence for longer than a decade. Consistent quality. Proficiency at several types of what can be considered rock music. In my opinion, they were better than the Beatles in terms of being a 'rock' band. They were also better than the Stones in terms of consistent quality. The other three bands in the conversation of "best classic rock band"/"best band ever": The Who, The Doors, and Pink Floyd - but they were neither consistent, as diverse, nor did they have the broad impact or appeal like Zeppelin.

Obviously, we all have favorite bands that we consider to be the best. I wish King Crimson was in the conversation (I also wish that Genesis had not gone "pop" and therefore killing their chances) for "best band", but both of those bands have limited appeal. Zeppelin had it all:

punk before punk: Communication Breakdown
Psychedelia: Whole Lotta Love middle section
Folk rock: Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp
British Blues: You Shook Me, I Can't Quit You
Basic Hard Rock: too many to name, but Living Loving Maid, Good Times, Bad Times, et al
Prog: No Quarter
Mellow Rock: The Rain Song
Eastern-tinged epic: Kashmir
Funk: The Crunge
Straight Blues: Since I've Been Loving You, Tea for One
Country(!): Hot Dog (probably the only Zep song I don't like

I could go on...

Zeppelin...the best, no question

Skitch Patterson

awwhotdog

lucylespian

Similarly, when talking about diversity of guitar style, Page is hard to touch

6 string electric, lead and rhythm, the consumate guitarist
12 string electric
6 string acoustic, in standard and open tunings, flatpick, fingerstyle and hybrid picking
12 string acoustic
Slide, both electric and acoustic


and of course the bow !!
To the musical style, add delta blues, ref white summer, Hat's off to roy harper


I'd be interested to hear of any other player who touched all those styles, with such effortless mastery, maybe Ry Cooder ??

Edved82

lucylespian wrote:

Similarly, when talking about diversity of guitar style, Page is hard to touch

6 string electric, lead and rhythm, the consumate guitarist
12 string electric
6 string acoustic, in standard and open tunings, flatpick, fingerstyle and hybrid picking
12 string acoustic
Slide, both electric and acoustic


and of course the bow !!
To the musical style, add delta blues, ref white summer, Hat's off to roy harper


I'd be interested to hear of any other player who touched all those styles, with such effortless mastery, maybe Ry Cooder ??

I cant think of anyone that comes even close to the greatness of Jimmy Page, even though his post-Zep output has been a tad disappointing. Love the live CD he put out with the Black Crowes in 99, and cant wait to see what he comes up with on his new album - apparently he's got the album written and is recording this year. Wonder who's gonna be on vocals??