If this has been posted my apologies but I read through about 60 pages on this post and I couldn't make it through the other 200. I have roughly 20 posters and I want to frame about 10 of them. I want to do them myself but I am starting this process from scratch. I am looking for some insight on the best way to approach this. I am thinking I need to invest in a good matt cutter. Any recommondations? Also, what is the best site to buy frames, matts, glass etc.? I started the process of looking but it is overwhelming. I like the sites that you can import your poster and test matt colors against them but my fear is the colors might not show true. Any insight for a newcommer in framing is greatly appreciated.
If you decide to have them professionally framed, I'll be starting up the next PJ Poster Group Framing Special list in upcoming weeks. We use only Bainbridge museum quality mats, TruVue Conservation Glass, Bainbridge museum quality foamboard, your choice of seven color stripe frames, and I personally color-match the poster to the mats before cutting, and I fit the artwork into the frames using archival corner holders so the poster has no adhesives touching it. But if you're looking for dirt cheap frames, there are less expensive methods to display them. And expect colors to be different on your screen than in person if you decide to go that route.
I have seen your posts on here and your work is phenominal. I am very impressed. If I were to send it off I would certainly go that route. But I am thinking I want to get into doing this myself. Not to be cheap, but to make it a fun hobby. So I am looking for advice if I were to take this task on myself.
As for the rest of the collection... man... I thought my house was bad, but I'm going to show my girlfriend your collection next time she argues against me framing a new PJ print
Also, please let me know your exact address so I can come over steal all 3 of those EMEK's that are on your wall...
[/quote]
Yeah, I know it's too much, maybe over 50 frames in the house and working studio, my wife has a lot of understanding for my poster passion, only thing I can't put in the house are posters with scull's because children
Next year we are moving in to the new house and I have a project to do a glass wall in the shower for the poster...I just can't decide which one to put there
CAN'T KEEP CRAZY MARY IN MY TREE NO WAY NOT FOR YOU. ALL THOSE YESTERDAY JEREMY is ALONE, SAD with RATS & BUGS it's HARD TO IMAGINE a JEREMY a BETTER MAN.
LIFE WASTED, BLOOD on the PORCH, LAST KISS is a WISHLIST DEEP DOWN NOTHING AS IT SEEMS WHY GO COME BACK ALIVE SPIN THE BLACK CIRCLE and SMILE.
Can anyone recommend poster framers from Melbourne, AUST - comparable quality to Westend, they are absolutely awesome, wish you could do mine.
Cheers Matt
_____________________________________________
Oh, I could be new... you underestimate me
Melbourne - 16/3/95, 5/3/98, 18/2/03, 20/2/03, 13/11/06, 16/11/06, 20/11/09, EV 24/3/11 EV 25/3/11, 24/1/14, ....
Can anyone recommend poster framers from Melbourne, AUST - comparable quality to Westend, they are absolutely awesome, wish you could do mine.
Cheers Matt
Hey Matt,
Maybe a bunch of people shipping together to Oz wouldn't be so expensive? I don't know what framers in your country charge though.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
hey hoff,everytime i see one of your posts on this thread i cant wait to see one of those awesome framejobs. im dying to see what you have done with the cleveland 10,any pics.
hey hoff,everytime i see one of your posts on this thread i cant wait to see one of those awesome framejobs. im dying to see what you have done with the cleveland 10,any pics.
No pics yet of cleveland. The majority of the posters are still being worked on, but those I've shipped already have been photographed. Since I want to display them well, I'm going to wait until they are all done, photographed and shipped, and then I'll put up great, clear photos of them all. It'll take some time, but I PROMISE, it WILL be worth the wait for the photos. :thumbup:
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
Can anyone recommend poster framers from Melbourne, AUST - comparable quality to Westend, they are absolutely awesome, wish you could do mine.
Cheers Matt
Hey Matt,
Maybe a bunch of people shipping together to Oz wouldn't be so expensive? I don't know what framers in your country charge though.
I'm sure it would push the price up enough to make it not worthwhile but thanks anyway.. some one suggested a local framer to me years ago but I can't remember who.
I'll do some research because I don't want to be dissapointed with the result..
_____________________________________________
Oh, I could be new... you underestimate me
Melbourne - 16/3/95, 5/3/98, 18/2/03, 20/2/03, 13/11/06, 16/11/06, 20/11/09, EV 24/3/11 EV 25/3/11, 24/1/14, ....
Klausen trio:
I went to Dublin and London, not Gdynia, but the poster was too awesome to pass up!
Details:
Berlin:
Really liked to texture detail of this for the elelphant picture:
Not the greatest photo of the frame though.
And finally, I got this done too for the Europe shows I saw .
Nice job, probably cost a small fortune, but I'm sure well worth it
2005 - London
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1 2018 - Fenway 1&2 2022 - Hamilton, Toronto 2023 - Chicago 1&2
Can anyone recommend poster framers from Melbourne, AUST - comparable quality to Westend, they are absolutely awesome, wish you could do mine.
Cheers Matt
Hey Matt,
Maybe a bunch of people shipping together to Oz wouldn't be so expensive? I don't know what framers in your country charge though.
I'm sure it would push the price up enough to make it not worthwhile but thanks anyway.. some one suggested a local framer to me years ago but I can't remember who.
I'll do some research because I don't want to be dissapointed with the result..
I've got some stuff done here in SYdney which I have really been happy with. THe price is an issue and also space.
My last two I got done was Sydney2003 and Sydney 2009. Syd 2009 had two borders. N/R glass Black frame (as all my posters do, maybe 1.5 to 2 inch thick. The last two cost $690AUD. So $615 USD for the two.
How does that fit with yours Hoff? Also, do you know roughly shipping to Aust? I was thinkin about your offer, but I think shipping to Aust, plus the fragility of it had me second guessing.
Here they are
Others I have done
Sydney 11/02/2003
Sydney 14/02/2003
Sydney 07/11/2006
Sydney 18/11/2006
Sydney 22/11/2009
EV Sydney 18/03/2011
EV Sydney 19/03/2011
EV Sydney 20/03/2011
Melbourne 24/01/2014
Sydney 26/01/2014
EV Sydney 13/02/2014
Gee mate that is really expensive...I would suggest finding another framer.
I just took my 2006 Washington DC 2006 AP to a framer here in Perth, I have 3 mats around it NR glass and a black frame all for $165 Aust.
Also just dropped off my London 2010 AP to the same framer, 2 mats NR glass and black frame for $140.
I will post photos when I get them back in a 2 weeks.
Fuck me dead.
I just went to their website. Is this the normal process?
CONSULTATION TO FIND THE BEST CHOICE
When it comes to professional custom framing for your precious memories, there are many levels of work and consideration that are applied to each and every job, and no two jobs are the same. At Hornsby Framing, we can help explain these variations to you through the consulting process at our well-equipped and stocked shop in Florence Street, Hornsby. We will help you to understand and choose the best options for your custom designed, custom made frame.
1. THE FRAME
All of our frames are hand-crafted from local and imported mouldings. Each frame is cut and joined in our workshop by experienced craftsman, to the precise required dimensions. Many of our frames are sourced from local manufacturers or from countries such as Italy & Malaysia. Timber is a rare, natural product, and timber stains can vary slightly from length to length, just like fine wine. All our timber mouldings are sourced from renewable plantations. We offer over 500 choices in frames, which can be designed to match either the artwork or your décor.
2. GLAZING
All artwork on paper requires glazing protection. We offer many different types of glazing from fade resistant UV protective glass, shatterproof acrylic to optically coated non-reflective glass. We standardise on offering UV glass, which offers a 99% UV block against harmful light, which is the main cause of discolouration and fading in artwork.
The primary function of a matboard is to space the artwork away from the glazing. If the artwork touches the glass harmful condensation can occur even with normal temperature changes, damaging the artwork.
Matboard is also used to enhance an image through colour and texture, providing an element of depth to the artwork. Matboard also creates a comfortable balance between the image and the frame, making the artwork appealing to the eye. Matting is available in many styles to either suit your décor or your frame.
Because matboard comes into contact with your art, we recommend the use of conservation grade matboard, with pure, lignin free, alpha cellulose core, to prevent harmful acid from developing. Acid is a major cause of damage to artwork (yellowing and brown spotting), and is unfortunately irreversible. Be careful, not all matboards are the same. Just because a mat has a “white core”, doesn’t mean it won’t become acidic.
At Hornsby Framing, we offer Bainbridge Alphamat ArtcareTM Archival Framing matboard, and Crescent Rag Mat ® Museum Grade matboard as these are the highest quality boards, used by the best recognised museums and galleries around the world.
Computer-Controlled mat cutting
We use computer-controlled cutting equipment to ensure that the mats are cut cleanly and are precisely to the sizes set out in the design.
6. MOUNTING THE ARTWORK
Depending on the type of artwork being framed, different methods are used to mount and support your artwork within the frame. We offer and recommend reversible mounting methods for valuable artwork, such as hinging, and we also offer highly desirable flat, permanent mounting options as well.
Three-dimensional objects, tapestries and many other objects need special handling and mounting methods, and we can design and make framing suitable for any of these special items.
7. BARRIER PAPER
If required, we use a 1-ply protective barrier paper, which helps prevent the migration of acid from behind the artwork.
8. FILLER
We use different rigid, lightweight substrates to help support the composite "package" inside the frame, and protect the frame from behind. Brown masonite or MDF is never used or offered in our custom framing, as it is highly acidic which is damaging to artwork, highly toxic to handle and work with, and also heavy, which adds a lot of weight to the frame hanging on your wall.
9. BACKING PAPER
If required, we seal the back of each of our custom frames with a brown paper cover which helps prevent dust and insects from getting inside your frame, and also helps create a micro-climate for protecting your framed package of artwork from changes in relative humidity.
...and then the HANGING There are different hanging systems to suit different shaped and sized frames. We prefer the use of high quality plastic coated wire rather than cheap cord... it is longer lasting and heavy duty. Depending on where you're hanging your framed artwork, there are also different options available for wall hanging as well.
Sydney 11/02/2003
Sydney 14/02/2003
Sydney 07/11/2006
Sydney 18/11/2006
Sydney 22/11/2009
EV Sydney 18/03/2011
EV Sydney 19/03/2011
EV Sydney 20/03/2011
Melbourne 24/01/2014
Sydney 26/01/2014
EV Sydney 13/02/2014
that framed McCready pick is SWEET!! I might think about doing that to some of my picks someday. BTW- what are those little posters you have framed? I thought they were the Ames postcards, but then I noticed the Klausens in there.
Still a work in progress. I have MSG 1998, 2010 and Hartford 1998 framed and ready to hand still.
What a great collection... :thumbup:
That Santa Barbara... :shock: may I ask how did you score that one...from Emek or eBay??
CAN'T KEEP CRAZY MARY IN MY TREE NO WAY NOT FOR YOU. ALL THOSE YESTERDAY JEREMY is ALONE, SAD with RATS & BUGS it's HARD TO IMAGINE a JEREMY a BETTER MAN.
LIFE WASTED, BLOOD on the PORCH, LAST KISS is a WISHLIST DEEP DOWN NOTHING AS IT SEEMS WHY GO COME BACK ALIVE SPIN THE BLACK CIRCLE and SMILE.
CAN'T KEEP CRAZY MARY IN MY TREE NO WAY NOT FOR YOU. ALL THOSE YESTERDAY JEREMY is ALONE, SAD with RATS & BUGS it's HARD TO IMAGINE a JEREMY a BETTER MAN.
LIFE WASTED, BLOOD on the PORCH, LAST KISS is a WISHLIST DEEP DOWN NOTHING AS IT SEEMS WHY GO COME BACK ALIVE SPIN THE BLACK CIRCLE and SMILE.
Comments
If you decide to have them professionally framed, I'll be starting up the next PJ Poster Group Framing Special list in upcoming weeks. We use only Bainbridge museum quality mats, TruVue Conservation Glass, Bainbridge museum quality foamboard, your choice of seven color stripe frames, and I personally color-match the poster to the mats before cutting, and I fit the artwork into the frames using archival corner holders so the poster has no adhesives touching it. But if you're looking for dirt cheap frames, there are less expensive methods to display them. And expect colors to be different on your screen than in person if you decide to go that route.
Hope that helps!
Here's the thread from the Summer framing special:
http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=134324
And here's the website which has some more info:
http://westendframing.com/pearl-jam-poster-framing.html
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
I have seen your posts on here and your work is phenominal. I am very impressed. If I were to send it off I would certainly go that route. But I am thinking I want to get into doing this myself. Not to be cheap, but to make it a fun hobby. So I am looking for advice if I were to take this task on myself.
Many thanks!
[/quote]
Yeah, I know it's too much, maybe over 50 frames in the house and working studio, my wife has a lot of understanding for my poster passion, only thing I can't put in the house are posters with scull's because children
Next year we are moving in to the new house and I have a project to do a glass wall in the shower for the poster...I just can't decide which one to put there
LIFE WASTED, BLOOD on the PORCH, LAST KISS is a WISHLIST DEEP DOWN NOTHING AS IT SEEMS WHY GO COME BACK ALIVE SPIN THE BLACK CIRCLE and SMILE.
Cheers Matt
Oh, I could be new... you underestimate me
Melbourne - 16/3/95, 5/3/98, 18/2/03, 20/2/03, 13/11/06, 16/11/06, 20/11/09, EV 24/3/11 EV 25/3/11, 24/1/14, ....
Hey Matt,
Maybe a bunch of people shipping together to Oz wouldn't be so expensive? I don't know what framers in your country charge though.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
No pics yet of cleveland. The majority of the posters are still being worked on, but those I've shipped already have been photographed. Since I want to display them well, I'm going to wait until they are all done, photographed and shipped, and then I'll put up great, clear photos of them all. It'll take some time, but I PROMISE, it WILL be worth the wait for the photos.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
I'm sure it would push the price up enough to make it not worthwhile but thanks anyway.. some one suggested a local framer to me years ago but I can't remember who.
I'll do some research because I don't want to be dissapointed with the result..
Oh, I could be new... you underestimate me
Melbourne - 16/3/95, 5/3/98, 18/2/03, 20/2/03, 13/11/06, 16/11/06, 20/11/09, EV 24/3/11 EV 25/3/11, 24/1/14, ....
Klausen trio:
I went to Dublin and London, not Gdynia, but the poster was too awesome to pass up!
Details:
Berlin:
Really liked to texture detail of this for the elelphant picture:
Not the greatest photo of the frame though.
And finally, I got this done too for the Europe shows I saw
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1
2018 - Fenway 1&2
2022 - Hamilton, Toronto
2023 - Chicago 1&2
Just got this poster back today. I was pretty happy with the frame job.
What are the dimensions of Berlin, can't find that info anywhere
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2532383604/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2532384312/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2532380872/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2531567101/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2531567841/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2532381566/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27135623@N06/2532385082/in/photostream/
49 shows and counting....
Congrats on the Autographed poster-looks nice
According to the artists site it is 30x69cm which is roughly 12 x 27 inches.
You frame it yet? Or did you just get it in the mail? Mines at the framers as we speak.
If your gonna do it, you gonna have to do it right, no? There a set, they need to be in matching frames in line on the same wall
I've got some stuff done here in SYdney which I have really been happy with. THe price is an issue and also space.
My last two I got done was Sydney2003 and Sydney 2009. Syd 2009 had two borders. N/R glass Black frame (as all my posters do, maybe 1.5 to 2 inch thick. The last two cost $690AUD. So $615 USD for the two.
How does that fit with yours Hoff? Also, do you know roughly shipping to Aust? I was thinkin about your offer, but I think shipping to Aust, plus the fragility of it had me second guessing.
Here they are
Others I have done
Sydney 14/02/2003
Sydney 07/11/2006
Sydney 18/11/2006
Sydney 22/11/2009
EV Sydney 18/03/2011
EV Sydney 19/03/2011
EV Sydney 20/03/2011
Melbourne 24/01/2014
Sydney 26/01/2014
EV Sydney 13/02/2014
I just took my 2006 Washington DC 2006 AP to a framer here in Perth, I have 3 mats around it NR glass and a black frame all for $165 Aust.
Also just dropped off my London 2010 AP to the same framer, 2 mats NR glass and black frame for $140.
I will post photos when I get them back in a 2 weeks.
Fuck me dead.
I just went to their website. Is this the normal process?
Sydney 14/02/2003
Sydney 07/11/2006
Sydney 18/11/2006
Sydney 22/11/2009
EV Sydney 18/03/2011
EV Sydney 19/03/2011
EV Sydney 20/03/2011
Melbourne 24/01/2014
Sydney 26/01/2014
EV Sydney 13/02/2014
My Movie/Music Reviews & Sports Blog
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4900201682/sizes/m/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4899607141/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4900197582/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4899596585/in/photostream/
2000: 8/15, 8/18, 10/9, 10/11, 10/12
2003: 6/18, 6/21, 6/22
2005: 9/9, 9/28
2006: 5/16, 5/17, 6/26, 6/27
2007: 8/5
2009: 8/23, 8/24
2010: 5/3, 5/4, 5/21
2011: 9/3, 9/4, 9/11, 9/12
2013: 7/19, 11/16
2014: 10/3, 10/9, 10/12, 10/17
2016: 4/16, 8/20, 8/22
2018: 8/18, 8/20, 9/2
2022: 9/18
2023: 8/31, 9/2, 9/5
2024: 5/18
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4900198064/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4899599451/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4900192024/in/photostream/
Not a poster, but it is a Mike McCready guitar pick! http://www.flickr.com/photos/52420004@N07/4899595577/in/photostream/
2000: 8/15, 8/18, 10/9, 10/11, 10/12
2003: 6/18, 6/21, 6/22
2005: 9/9, 9/28
2006: 5/16, 5/17, 6/26, 6/27
2007: 8/5
2009: 8/23, 8/24
2010: 5/3, 5/4, 5/21
2011: 9/3, 9/4, 9/11, 9/12
2013: 7/19, 11/16
2014: 10/3, 10/9, 10/12, 10/17
2016: 4/16, 8/20, 8/22
2018: 8/18, 8/20, 9/2
2022: 9/18
2023: 8/31, 9/2, 9/5
2024: 5/18
that framed McCready pick is SWEET!! I might think about doing that to some of my picks someday. BTW- what are those little posters you have framed? I thought they were the Ames postcards, but then I noticed the Klausens in there.
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww280/pjsteelerfan/IMG_1050.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww280/pjsteelerfan/IMG_1051.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww280/pjsteelerfan/IMG_1052.jpg
http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww280/pjsteelerfan/IMG_1053.jpg
Still a work in progress. I have MSG 1998, 2010 and Hartford 1998 framed and ready to hand still.
looks great
What a great collection...
That Santa Barbara... :shock: may I ask how did you score that one...from Emek or eBay??
LIFE WASTED, BLOOD on the PORCH, LAST KISS is a WISHLIST DEEP DOWN NOTHING AS IT SEEMS WHY GO COME BACK ALIVE SPIN THE BLACK CIRCLE and SMILE.
Cool staff...I like EV rocket and St. Louis.
LIFE WASTED, BLOOD on the PORCH, LAST KISS is a WISHLIST DEEP DOWN NOTHING AS IT SEEMS WHY GO COME BACK ALIVE SPIN THE BLACK CIRCLE and SMILE.