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From July of last year. New York State.
https://www.timesunion.com/education/article/n-y-teacher-discipline-fight-ends-firings-seems-19550111.php
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Yes you do!tempo_n_groove said:
Teachers get "fired". They are not renewed contracts and are let go. It's the same as firing. How do i know that? I know plenty of teachers here in NY.Halifax2TheMax said:
If it’s true, is it not a myth? I’ve never met a teacher who was fired. Ever.mace1229 said:
The myth that teachers can't be fired is only true in some states and districts. California it was probably the most true there. But other states don't offer tenure, or the pathway is difficult, or it can be removed. Teachers not on tenure (usually called probationary) can often be "non-renewed" for no reason given. Meaning around March or April (traditionally happens the week before spring break at the schools I've been at) the principal gives you a notice that you won't be needed next year, and that's all.Halifax2TheMax said:
Unlike teachers, they can be fired, once every two or six years.mace1229 said:
Congress,Halifax2TheMax said:
Make teachers work year round and you could cut their ranks in almost half. Who else “works” 180 days per year?mace1229 said:
In most districts snow days aren't a real perk. They add extra days into the calendar, and if we don't use all our snow days, which we rarely do, we've worked extra days for free.Halifax2TheMax said:And don’t get me going on “snow days.” Sign or prediction of one little flake, bam! Schools are closed. And busses? When I was a kid everyone walked to school so why not teachers? Kids and teachers can’t walk in snow? Lazy. Imagine the savings if we got rid of free rides?
We're required to have school 180 days, so they have 188 school days so that we can have 8 snow days in the year We get maybe 2 or 3, so we've worked 5 extra days. It's basically slave labor.
And it's more like 195 days with all the inservice days.
Even in states where it is difficult to fire a teacher, there are still ways to get ride of ineffective ones. I've seen it happen several times, they change up the schedule of a teacher to a nightmare scenario. Some teacher who has taught honors pre-calculus for the last 15 years is suddenly told they will be teaching 4 different levels of remedial math and one class of elective psychology or something random they've never taught before (some states allow teachers to teach 1 class outside of their certification to fill the needs of the school). The teacher will then decide they're close enough to retirement and retire, or apply somewhere else.jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
California, 2016 From the link below:
Technically, California teachers are granted lifetime tenure after just two years. Actually, they must be notified of tenured status after just 16 months. (Thirty-two states grant tenure after three years, nine states after four or five. Four states never grant tenure.) When incompetent or negligent teachers gain tenure, dismissal procedures are so complex and costly that the process can take up to 10 years and cost up to $450,000. The trial court called the power to dismiss "illusory." Each year approximately two teachers are dismissed for unsatisfactory performance — 0.0007 percent of California's 277,000 teachers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/undoing-the-harm-of-californias-teacher-tenure/2016/07/13/ec56dd90-484b-11e6-bdb9-701687974517_story.html
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Tennessee from 2008. Page 2, right hand column in link. School board grants/denies tenure after 3 year probationary period.
https://comptroller.tn.gov/content/dam/cot/orea/advanced-search/orea-reports-2008/2008_OREA_TeacherTenure.pdf
https://tsba.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Teacher-Discipline-Guide-Final.pdf
Regarding both links, Have these procedures changed?
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I said California was the state that was hardest to fire teachers from my experience. Colorado was a lot easier. It also varies from state, but even teachers with ten can lose tenure if their evaluations are low and be placed on probation. I've seen that happen more than once,Halifax2TheMax said:California, 2016 From the link below:
Technically, California teachers are granted lifetime tenure after just two years. Actually, they must be notified of tenured status after just 16 months. (Thirty-two states grant tenure after three years, nine states after four or five. Four states never grant tenure.) When incompetent or negligent teachers gain tenure, dismissal procedures are so complex and costly that the process can take up to 10 years and cost up to $450,000. The trial court called the power to dismiss "illusory." Each year approximately two teachers are dismissed for unsatisfactory performance — 0.0007 percent of California's 277,000 teachers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/undoing-the-harm-of-californias-teacher-tenure/2016/07/13/ec56dd90-484b-11e6-bdb9-701687974517_story.html
And as I mentioned, it's not just "firing" or non-renewing. I've seen several teachers get treated poorly with the intention to make them quit. I've seen an art teacher who taught at the high school for several years get transferred to the middle school, I've seen a teacher get split get assigned multiple different subjects, etc. This most often happens to teachers who are not well thought of by the admin, who have been vocal about their disappointment with something, or created some issue but wasn't a firable offense.
I'm not able to read that article, but the title states fired for unsatisfactory performance. There are many ways around that as well. Schools can under-report expected enrollment to downsize staff and eliminate positions, then a few months later they magically reappear. New teachers within the first 2 years who are probationary and get let go are also not part of that statistic. Even in a state like California it is going to be a lot higher than the 0.0007%. Thats just the number that they had to go through the official process for a tenure teacher. A lot of new teachers are let go for that reason, they know it's very difficult to get rid of them after that.
I agree the process should be easier to get rid of teachers who don;t do their job, but they also deserve job security and shouldn't be at the sole discretion of a few admin either.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
Working 5 extra days as a teacher is “slave labor” now?mace1229 said:
In most districts snow days aren't a real perk. They add extra days into the calendar, and if we don't use all our snow days, which we rarely do, we've worked extra days for free.Halifax2TheMax said:And don’t get me going on “snow days.” Sign or prediction of one little flake, bam! Schools are closed. And busses? When I was a kid everyone walked to school so why not teachers? Kids and teachers can’t walk in snow? Lazy. Imagine the savings if we got rid of free rides?
We're required to have school 180 days, so they have 188 school days so that we can have 8 snow days in the year We get maybe 2 or 3, so we've worked 5 extra days. It's basically slave labor.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
It’s fun watching the clown car crash into the dumpster fire, isn’t it? Such a beautiful day in ‘Murica.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Such efficiency. Using military flights for show that transport less people, cost way more and take longer because they don't have the air space clearance of a regular flight. Good god these people are stupid.
https://youtu.be/GNObnSDwWnI?si=jLoWcBznM2X_NnSm It's a hopeless situation...0 -
I guess you missed my sarcasm.Halifax2TheMax said:
Working 5 extra days as a teacher is “slave labor” now?mace1229 said:
In most districts snow days aren't a real perk. They add extra days into the calendar, and if we don't use all our snow days, which we rarely do, we've worked extra days for free.Halifax2TheMax said:And don’t get me going on “snow days.” Sign or prediction of one little flake, bam! Schools are closed. And busses? When I was a kid everyone walked to school so why not teachers? Kids and teachers can’t walk in snow? Lazy. Imagine the savings if we got rid of free rides?
We're required to have school 180 days, so they have 188 school days so that we can have 8 snow days in the year We get maybe 2 or 3, so we've worked 5 extra days. It's basically slave labor.0 -
This is what people voted for. Don't get bogged down with the details of how much it cost.tbergs said:Such efficiency. Using military flights for show that transport less people, cost way more and take longer because they don't have the air space clearance of a regular flight. Good god these people are stupid.https://youtu.be/GNObnSDwWnI?si=jLoWcBznM2X_NnSm
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The optics of Musk's kid telling trump to "shut your fucking mouth" in the oval is just the absolute best summary of his second term.
I can't believe the media isn't dancing all over that. You can imagine how many times Musk has said that to his kid for him to just blurt it out like that.
edit: I realize there are several opinions as to what the kid saidPost edited by Gern Blansten onRemember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
The media isn’t dancing all over that because all they do is suck up to the regime.Gern Blansten said:The optics of Musk's kid telling trump to "shut your fucking mouth" in the oval is just the absolute best summary of his second term.
I can't believe the media isn't dancing all over that. You can imagine how many times Musk has said that to his kid for him to just blurt it out like that.
edit: I realize there are several opinions as to what the kid said
im not exactly sure what was happening but the excuses are that he was talking to someone off camera or we misheard him. And honestly I tried to listen to it a few times and couldn’t understand it at all. It’s also conceivable he was repeating was he’s heard his father say before.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
What’s a meat axe?0
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_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Elon Musk’s A.I.-Fuelled War on Human Agency
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/infinite-scroll/elon-musks-ai-fuelled-war-on-human-agency_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
lolMerkin Baller said:.0 -
Yup.Tim Simmons said:
lolMerkin Baller said:.0 -
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20
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