2024 US Election - Predictions

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Gern Blansten said:

I think some of my posts over the last few months will show this. I have been saying that if trump wins it is because the electorate is just too fucking ignorant.

How do we recover from that? How does an opposition party combat complete ignorance of an electorate influenced by memes rather than actual facts? These people do not listen to in depth discussions of important topics, they vote strictly on outrage.

It will be easier by itself when people are less distressed in their everyday life about the economy and surviving. Then they can raise their eyes a bit and be less ego and shortsighted.

Thinks like this accelerate when society is going through a crisis and people therefore feel unsecure. See: Germany in the 30s

At the same time. Making people be less ego, shortsighted and racist takes effort. And I heard that youtuber Hasan once talk about how young men online is only met by a huge right wing space (whether that is Joe Rogan or Tim Pool or whoever) and the left has lost the fight of being an option. Ego and othering rules the day.

And effects of climate change etc, won't make the above easier over time ofc.

When is anyone ever less distressed about their everyday life though? Our economy is doing very well right now and the incumbent party got booted because the perception is that things are awful.

Depends on how you measure the economy. 
The perception is bad because car prices are up 25%. Grocery prices are way up. You're going to pay 2-3 times the mortgage if you buy a home today compared to 5 years ago. Insurance costs have skyrocketed.
There are a lot of people who are financially worse of today than they were 5 years ago. 
You can argue who is and is not responsible, but I think downplaying the effects hurt.

maybe...or at least not spelling out why these things occurred. 

These are the topics that I was seeing constantly in my tiktok feed...just bullshit clips blaming Harris/Biden, etc., for things that normally happen in our economy. Once again...ignorance. When the majority of the electorate is ignorant and the news they receive is false we get trump as the result.

It's very concerning to me.

But they aren't normal. And calming they are is part of the downplaying I was talking about. 
If we didn't already own a home prior to 2019, I don't think I could ever afford one in my lifetime. I don't know how younger couples are going to any time soon. In many parts of the country the average home, with insurance, taxes, higher interest rates, etc, is going to be more than the entire paycheck of a new teacher. So a young couple where both are teachers, or both have similar salaries, it will take the entire paycheck of one and a portion of the other to just pay their mortgage. 
New car prices rises 25% in 5 years isn't normal. Which has also created a domino effect of cars lasting longer on the road, meaning more repairs and higher maintenance costs and increasing the cost of used cars.
Grocery prices rising nearly 30% in 5 years is not normal. 
None of these things are things that "normally happen in our economy." And calming it is is just downplaying it.
Now, like I said, You can argue the causes. And I would agree covid is a huge factor. But just telling people it's not as bad as you think it is over and over again probably cost them the election. 

This reads like the memes I see though. A friend had posted a list of groceries with prices now vs four years ago....he had milk at $5/gallon now and $2.50 then. Someone commented by screenshotting a gallon of milk at WalMart for $2.99 current price.

One, that's not very accurate. Products are regional and even vary store to store, so taking a comment from one meme is pretty meaningless. It may be 2.99 now, and 5 years ago $2.19 at that same location.
I don't know how you can argue against high grocery prices.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-tracker/
According to CBS, average milk price went from $3.10 to $4.02. 
Groceries are up close to 30%
Same with cars and many other things. 

What was trump's proposal for helping with the high cost of living? 

I never said he had one. The conversation was about inflation in general and how the right hyped up the inflation to get voters scared. Inflation is real, and a lot worse than it usually is. Not sure why people are denying it. A mistake the left made was not making as big of a deal about inflation as the right did and not addressing it. 

no one is denying inflation...I was pointing out the idiocy of stating milk is now $5 when it isn't. Yes if you go to a local Speedway to buy a gallon of milk it might be $5 for the convenience.

Once again, I'm reminded of a conversation with my sister in law. She was bitching about eggs being $4 or something but she was at SPEEDWAY. The day after that conversation my wife and I were at Meijer and I bought an 18 pack of eggs for like $2 or something.

Yes there was inflation. GLOBALLY

shadowcast

Spiritual_Chaos said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. 

please comment @shadowcast

He literally had a meeting with him.. You know a conversation . That's better than what any President has done with North Korea in my lifetime. 


Next. 

shadowcast

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

Checking to see which war the NEOCON D's started.  As far as I can tell, it's still only GOP led admin that started NEOCON wars.  

I more think it's funny how the GOP has literally exited very principle they held for 70 years, other than cultural conservatism.  And even that one is just cynical.  Trump is absolutely pro-choice.  

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

tbergs said:

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

Pretty much nailed it for me to vote Trump. A lot of other Gen X Dems were on the same page. 

tbergs

shadowcast said:

Gern Blansten said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

the left put us through covid?

And what war are you talking about? We pulled out of Afghanistan and the right blamed Biden for the 13 deaths from a suicide bomber. No consideration for how many may have died if we didn't pull out.

holy shit your guy was inquiring about nuking North Korea when he was in office

COVID- Mandates, forced mask wearing, closed schools for way too long, COVID was treatable but it was VAX or bust, VAX did not work (Trump had a hand in that as well but the Dems took it to another level). We have no idea of any long term effects of the jab. COVID was the biggest money grab of all time and when did we start siding with BIG Pharma? 

Afghanistan- Trump negotiated the withdrawal & Biden fumbled it (remember people hanging onto air planes & dropping).  

Ukraine- Trump supported the Minsk agreements. Biden did not hence that's why we have Ukraine getting destroyed and massive loss of life and displacement in the region. 

Palestine- Hamas has just offered as of yesterday (after the election mind you) a ceasefire deal.

The Left has become everything that I was brought up to stand up to...and yes PJ taught me a lot and I wish they would have just sat this one out. Just Listen to the Avocado album (great anti war album).

Also when Dick Cheaney (mass murdering war hawk) and his daughter side with the same party as you that's a red flag. Pearl Jam taught me that and they looked the other way. 

How many wars did we start when Trump was in office? 

Zero wars stated under Biden or Trump, correct? We started zero.

Also, I get the Cheney resentment, fuck those people, but that doesn't mean I would shoot myself in the foot and choose a dictator and upheaval of social systems created for the betterment of all people in this country. And while on that subject, you mention the Cheneys supporting Harris, what about neo nazi, white supremacists supporting Trump? Isn't that a fucking red flag to you? Good god, look at the big picture. Domestic terrorism will once again be on the rise and threaten this country and the nationalist view will leave the US out in the cold.

As for the ceasefire, maybe you weren't aware of this already so here you go.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/28/nx-s1-5168008/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-us-election

Also, no ceasefire is expected until January now because no one knows what to expect with our new dictator. 

Gern Blansten

shadowcast said:

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

Checking to see which war the NEOCON D's started.  As far as I can tell, it's still only GOP led admin that started NEOCON wars.  

I more think it's funny how the GOP has literally exited very principle they held for 70 years, other than cultural conservatism.  And even that one is just cynical.  Trump is absolutely pro-choice.  

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

tbergs said:

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

Pretty much nailed it for me to vote Trump. A lot of other Gen X Dems were on the same page. 

so why? Because we support Ukraine over Russia and you don't like that? That we support Israel and trump does as well...and you don't like that?

You can call yourself a "Gen X Dem" but no one believes you. That's ridiculous.

tbergs

Gern Blansten said:

shadowcast said:

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

Checking to see which war the NEOCON D's started.  As far as I can tell, it's still only GOP led admin that started NEOCON wars.  

I more think it's funny how the GOP has literally exited very principle they held for 70 years, other than cultural conservatism.  And even that one is just cynical.  Trump is absolutely pro-choice.  

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

tbergs said:

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

Pretty much nailed it for me to vote Trump. A lot of other Gen X Dems were on the same page. 

so why? Because we support Ukraine over Russia and you don't like that? That we support Israel and trump does as well...and you don't like that?

You can call yourself a "Gen X Dem" but no one believes you. That's ridiculous.

I believe it because I know people saying the same things. I don't think the party took it seriously enough and assumed people wouldn't vote for a dictator, but they did. The rumblings have been there. I voiced my displeasure with the Cheney endorsements here and people were like, we'll take anybody we can get. That was as stupid as Trump not denouncing his white supremacist supporters. I'm just not that self absorbed or ignorant to let that one endorsement affect my vote for an insane far right wet dream of an administration.

pjl44

shadowcast said:

Gern Blansten said:

Choccoloccotide said:

Just think for a minute.  If the dems wouldn’t have cheated in 2020, Trump would only have 2 months left to be President.  Now he’ll be in the Oval till 2029.  How does that feel?

lol...so why didn't they cheat this time? Why give up the oval? Why give up the senate? 

Comments like this are laughable. I needed that.

Not saying they cheated but I do find it a bit odd that the Democrats had 81 million votes in 2020 and in 2024 they had a total of 68 million. 

They're not done counting votes yet

pjl44

Man watching Celtics game in the 3rd quarter:

"Very strange they haven't scored as much as Tuesday!"

mrussel1

shadowcast said:

Gern Blansten said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

the left put us through covid?

And what war are you talking about? We pulled out of Afghanistan and the right blamed Biden for the 13 deaths from a suicide bomber. No consideration for how many may have died if we didn't pull out.

holy shit your guy was inquiring about nuking North Korea when he was in office

COVID- Mandates, forced mask wearing, closed schools for way too long, COVID was treatable but it was VAX or bust, VAX did not work (Trump had a hand in that as well but the Dems took it to another level). We have no idea of any long term effects of the jab. COVID was the biggest money grab of all time and when did we start siding with BIG Pharma? 

Afghanistan- Trump negotiated the withdrawal & Biden fumbled it (remember people hanging onto air planes & dropping).  

Ukraine- Trump supported the Minsk agreements. Biden did not hence that's why we have Ukraine getting destroyed and massive loss of life and displacement in the region. 

Palestine- Hamas has just offered as of yesterday (after the election mind you) a ceasefire deal.

The Left has become everything that I was brought up to stand up to...and yes PJ taught me a lot and I wish they would have just sat this one out. Just Listen to the Avocado album (great anti war album).

Also when Dick Cheaney (mass murdering war hawk) and his daughter side with the same party as you that's a red flag. Pearl Jam taught me that and they looked the other way. 

How many wars did we start when Trump was in office? 

Ukraine - Minsk 1 was signed in 2014, yet Russia continued to send their regular troops into the Donbas region.  Minsk II was signed in 2015, yet Russia continued to support the separatists through direct and indirect means.  In other words, Minsk was signed twice and failed to stop the Russians twice.  

So what exactly do you mean when you say Biden didn't support Minsk and Trump did?  The agreements were signed.  And it didn't stop a full-scale invasion, which was Putin's plan from the outset. 

And supporting a free country from invasion from a belligerent neighbor is NOT being a NEOCON.  Were the English NEOCONS in 1940?  Were the Americans NEOCONS in 1941?

Not one of your examples represents NEOCON philosophy.  Vietnam was NEOCON (technically NEOLIB).  Afghanistan was.  Iraq was.  

mrussel1

@shadowcast "how many wars did we start when Trump was in office"?  Zero is the answer.  That's the same answer for Biden, Obama and Clinton.  The exception is Bush.  He started the wars.  

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Gern Blansten said:

I think some of my posts over the last few months will show this. I have been saying that if trump wins it is because the electorate is just too fucking ignorant.

How do we recover from that? How does an opposition party combat complete ignorance of an electorate influenced by memes rather than actual facts? These people do not listen to in depth discussions of important topics, they vote strictly on outrage.

It will be easier by itself when people are less distressed in their everyday life about the economy and surviving. Then they can raise their eyes a bit and be less ego and shortsighted.

Thinks like this accelerate when society is going through a crisis and people therefore feel unsecure. See: Germany in the 30s

At the same time. Making people be less ego, shortsighted and racist takes effort. And I heard that youtuber Hasan once talk about how young men online is only met by a huge right wing space (whether that is Joe Rogan or Tim Pool or whoever) and the left has lost the fight of being an option. Ego and othering rules the day.

And effects of climate change etc, won't make the above easier over time ofc.

When is anyone ever less distressed about their everyday life though? Our economy is doing very well right now and the incumbent party got booted because the perception is that things are awful.

Depends on how you measure the economy. 
The perception is bad because car prices are up 25%. Grocery prices are way up. You're going to pay 2-3 times the mortgage if you buy a home today compared to 5 years ago. Insurance costs have skyrocketed.
There are a lot of people who are financially worse of today than they were 5 years ago. 
You can argue who is and is not responsible, but I think downplaying the effects hurt.

maybe...or at least not spelling out why these things occurred. 

These are the topics that I was seeing constantly in my tiktok feed...just bullshit clips blaming Harris/Biden, etc., for things that normally happen in our economy. Once again...ignorance. When the majority of the electorate is ignorant and the news they receive is false we get trump as the result.

It's very concerning to me.

But they aren't normal. And calming they are is part of the downplaying I was talking about. 
If we didn't already own a home prior to 2019, I don't think I could ever afford one in my lifetime. I don't know how younger couples are going to any time soon. In many parts of the country the average home, with insurance, taxes, higher interest rates, etc, is going to be more than the entire paycheck of a new teacher. So a young couple where both are teachers, or both have similar salaries, it will take the entire paycheck of one and a portion of the other to just pay their mortgage. 
New car prices rises 25% in 5 years isn't normal. Which has also created a domino effect of cars lasting longer on the road, meaning more repairs and higher maintenance costs and increasing the cost of used cars.
Grocery prices rising nearly 30% in 5 years is not normal. 
None of these things are things that "normally happen in our economy." And calming it is is just downplaying it.
Now, like I said, You can argue the causes. And I would agree covid is a huge factor. But just telling people it's not as bad as you think it is over and over again probably cost them the election. 

This reads like the memes I see though. A friend had posted a list of groceries with prices now vs four years ago....he had milk at $5/gallon now and $2.50 then. Someone commented by screenshotting a gallon of milk at WalMart for $2.99 current price.

One, that's not very accurate. Products are regional and even vary store to store, so taking a comment from one meme is pretty meaningless. It may be 2.99 now, and 5 years ago $2.19 at that same location.
I don't know how you can argue against high grocery prices.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-tracker/
According to CBS, average milk price went from $3.10 to $4.02. 
Groceries are up close to 30%
Same with cars and many other things. 

What was trump's proposal for helping with the high cost of living? 

I never said he had one. The conversation was about inflation in general and how the right hyped up the inflation to get voters scared. Inflation is real, and a lot worse than it usually is. Not sure why people are denying it. A mistake the left made was not making as big of a deal about inflation as the right did and not addressing it. 

no one is denying inflation...I was pointing out the idiocy of stating milk is now $5 when it isn't. Yes if you go to a local Speedway to buy a gallon of milk it might be $5 for the convenience.

Once again, I'm reminded of a conversation with my sister in law. She was bitching about eggs being $4 or something but she was at SPEEDWAY. The day after that conversation my wife and I were at Meijer and I bought an 18 pack of eggs for like $2 or something.

Yes there was inflation. GLOBALLY

You said "When is anyone ever less distressed about their everyday life though? Our economy is doing very well right now and the incumbent party got booted because the perception is that things are awful"
and "bullshit clips blaming Harris/Biden, etc., for things that normally happen in our economy. Once again...ignorance. When the majority of the electorate is ignorant and the news they receive is false"

I interpreted those statements as saying inflation isn't as bad as people claim it is and we've experienced normal inflation. Both of which I disagree with.
I do agree it is a global issue, and many of the factors are not the result of Biden/Harris. But your comments came across as that inflation was just a gas lighting attempt from the right and everything is fine. 

Tim Simmons

jimjam1982 said:

I wish there was a way to bookmark posts to be able to quick quote it up a few years from now.

GlowGirl

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

shadowcast said:

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

Checking to see which war the NEOCON D's started.  As far as I can tell, it's still only GOP led admin that started NEOCON wars.  

I more think it's funny how the GOP has literally exited very principle they held for 70 years, other than cultural conservatism.  And even that one is just cynical.  Trump is absolutely pro-choice.  

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

tbergs said:

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

Pretty much nailed it for me to vote Trump. A lot of other Gen X Dems were on the same page. 

so why? Because we support Ukraine over Russia and you don't like that? That we support Israel and trump does as well...and you don't like that?

You can call yourself a "Gen X Dem" but no one believes you. That's ridiculous.

I believe it because I know people saying the same things. I don't think the party took it seriously enough and assumed people wouldn't vote for a dictator, but they did. The rumblings have been there. I voiced my displeasure with the Cheney endorsements here and people were like, we'll take anybody we can get. That was as stupid as Trump not denouncing his white supremacist supporters. I'm just not that self absorbed or ignorant to let that one endorsement affect my vote for an insane far right wet dream of an administration.

I would have never thought people would vote for a wannabe dictator, much less a convicted felon - but here we are. Clearly, most people in this country have a complete lack of empathy for others. They only care about what they think will be done for them.

tbergs

shadowcast said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. 

please comment @shadowcast

He literally had a meeting with him.. You know a conversation . That's better than what any President has done with North Korea in my lifetime. 


Next. 

I remember conservatives upset when Obama met with Putin. I don't view open communication lines with adversarial nations as problematic unless we're praising them or giving them credibility. Things Trump has done with both Russia and North Korea. He's easily manipulated and with the Trump tapes out there, both Putin and Kim know how enamored he is with them. Weakening global stability is what I fear most outside of the disastrous national level changes. Who am I kidding, it's all concerning.

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Gern Blansten said:

I think some of my posts over the last few months will show this. I have been saying that if trump wins it is because the electorate is just too fucking ignorant.

How do we recover from that? How does an opposition party combat complete ignorance of an electorate influenced by memes rather than actual facts? These people do not listen to in depth discussions of important topics, they vote strictly on outrage.

It will be easier by itself when people are less distressed in their everyday life about the economy and surviving. Then they can raise their eyes a bit and be less ego and shortsighted.

Thinks like this accelerate when society is going through a crisis and people therefore feel unsecure. See: Germany in the 30s

At the same time. Making people be less ego, shortsighted and racist takes effort. And I heard that youtuber Hasan once talk about how young men online is only met by a huge right wing space (whether that is Joe Rogan or Tim Pool or whoever) and the left has lost the fight of being an option. Ego and othering rules the day.

And effects of climate change etc, won't make the above easier over time ofc.

When is anyone ever less distressed about their everyday life though? Our economy is doing very well right now and the incumbent party got booted because the perception is that things are awful.

Depends on how you measure the economy. 
The perception is bad because car prices are up 25%. Grocery prices are way up. You're going to pay 2-3 times the mortgage if you buy a home today compared to 5 years ago. Insurance costs have skyrocketed.
There are a lot of people who are financially worse of today than they were 5 years ago. 
You can argue who is and is not responsible, but I think downplaying the effects hurt.

maybe...or at least not spelling out why these things occurred. 

These are the topics that I was seeing constantly in my tiktok feed...just bullshit clips blaming Harris/Biden, etc., for things that normally happen in our economy. Once again...ignorance. When the majority of the electorate is ignorant and the news they receive is false we get trump as the result.

It's very concerning to me.

But they aren't normal. And calming they are is part of the downplaying I was talking about. 
If we didn't already own a home prior to 2019, I don't think I could ever afford one in my lifetime. I don't know how younger couples are going to any time soon. In many parts of the country the average home, with insurance, taxes, higher interest rates, etc, is going to be more than the entire paycheck of a new teacher. So a young couple where both are teachers, or both have similar salaries, it will take the entire paycheck of one and a portion of the other to just pay their mortgage. 
New car prices rises 25% in 5 years isn't normal. Which has also created a domino effect of cars lasting longer on the road, meaning more repairs and higher maintenance costs and increasing the cost of used cars.
Grocery prices rising nearly 30% in 5 years is not normal. 
None of these things are things that "normally happen in our economy." And calming it is is just downplaying it.
Now, like I said, You can argue the causes. And I would agree covid is a huge factor. But just telling people it's not as bad as you think it is over and over again probably cost them the election. 

This reads like the memes I see though. A friend had posted a list of groceries with prices now vs four years ago....he had milk at $5/gallon now and $2.50 then. Someone commented by screenshotting a gallon of milk at WalMart for $2.99 current price.

One, that's not very accurate. Products are regional and even vary store to store, so taking a comment from one meme is pretty meaningless. It may be 2.99 now, and 5 years ago $2.19 at that same location.
I don't know how you can argue against high grocery prices.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/price-tracker/
According to CBS, average milk price went from $3.10 to $4.02. 
Groceries are up close to 30%
Same with cars and many other things. 

What was trump's proposal for helping with the high cost of living? 

I never said he had one. The conversation was about inflation in general and how the right hyped up the inflation to get voters scared. Inflation is real, and a lot worse than it usually is. Not sure why people are denying it. A mistake the left made was not making as big of a deal about inflation as the right did and not addressing it. 

no one is denying inflation...I was pointing out the idiocy of stating milk is now $5 when it isn't. Yes if you go to a local Speedway to buy a gallon of milk it might be $5 for the convenience.

Once again, I'm reminded of a conversation with my sister in law. She was bitching about eggs being $4 or something but she was at SPEEDWAY. The day after that conversation my wife and I were at Meijer and I bought an 18 pack of eggs for like $2 or something.

Yes there was inflation. GLOBALLY

You said "When is anyone ever less distressed about their everyday life though? Our economy is doing very well right now and the incumbent party got booted because the perception is that things are awful"
and "bullshit clips blaming Harris/Biden, etc., for things that normally happen in our economy. Once again...ignorance. When the majority of the electorate is ignorant and the news they receive is false"

I interpreted those statements as saying inflation isn't as bad as people claim it is and we've experienced normal inflation. Both of which I disagree with.
I do agree it is a global issue, and many of the factors are not the result of Biden/Harris. But your comments came across as that inflation was just a gas lighting attempt from the right and everything is fine. 

well it's definitely better...even cars are better now...there are 0% deals all over the place

No I experienced inflation first hand. I do most of the grocery shopping in my house. My comment related to people comparing apples to oranges.

Spiritual_Chaos

shadowcast said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. 

please comment @shadowcast

He literally had a meeting with him.. You know a conversation . That's better than what any President has done with North Korea in my lifetime. 


Next. 

He met with him for the benefit of one. 

A real ”gen x dem” would realise that. 

Spiritual_Chaos

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

shadowcast said:

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

shadowcast said:

Who would have thought that the people rejected the war mongering NEOCONS that the Democratic party has become. Not to mention all the COVID bullshit the left put us through. The left has become everything I was brought up to hate in the 90's. Gen X spoke in this election. 

Checking to see which war the NEOCON D's started.  As far as I can tell, it's still only GOP led admin that started NEOCON wars.  

I more think it's funny how the GOP has literally exited very principle they held for 70 years, other than cultural conservatism.  And even that one is just cynical.  Trump is absolutely pro-choice.  

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

tbergs said:

My perception of these comments by conservatives is the aid we are providing to Ukraine and Israel in their wars. I fully expect Trump to abandon Ukraine, but he will for sure continue support for Israel and let Netanyahu do what he wants. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the conservative justification for this.

Anyway, this is why I hated the Cheney endorsements and courting of Liz with Harris. It was clear those voting for Trump took that as the dems being the new war hawks. Based on the comments I keep seeing about lifelong dems finally embracing Trump, I think a lot of that is due to Ukraine and Israel support, even though we don't have troops on the ground, we are involved as a proxy. They don't want us involved at all. No matter the consequence of Russian control and steamrolling Ukraine or Israel slaughtering Palestinians to achieve their goals. Trump and his supporters are nationalists and it will be horrifying to see it play out.

Edit: I'd like to add that this is why I'm pissed. There were missteps in the Harris campaign on how concerns like these could have been addressed, but the lack of commitment to what that meant allowed people to flop on the Trump bandwagon of grievances and despair. It's insane that people chose a dictator with their protest vote though. 

Pretty much nailed it for me to vote Trump. A lot of other Gen X Dems were on the same page. 

so why? Because we support Ukraine over Russia and you don't like that? That we support Israel and trump does as well...and you don't like that?

You can call yourself a "Gen X Dem" but no one believes you. That's ridiculous.

I believe it because I know people saying the same things. I don't think the party took it seriously enough and assumed people wouldn't vote for a dictator, but they did. The rumblings have been there. I voiced my displeasure with the Cheney endorsements here and people were like, we'll take anybody we can get. That was as stupid as Trump not denouncing his white supremacist supporters. I'm just not that self absorbed or ignorant to let that one endorsement affect my vote for an insane far right wet dream of an administration.

Going all in on flirting with the right and republicans and pushing dick/liz cheney and talking about  ”giving them a seat at the table” onviously failed. 

Do you think going hard with a more clear progressive agenda instead would have made more of the 15 million people not showing up to show up?

How many republicans voted dem compared to former elecetions with this strategy? Is there data on that yet?

Poncier

pjl44 said:

Man watching Celtics game in the 3rd quarter:

"Very strange they haven't scored as much as Tuesday!"

They didn't play Tuesday. entire league was off for Election Day.

shadowcast

t

Gern Blansten said:

Zero wars stated under Biden or Trump, correct? We started zero.

Also, I get the Cheney resentment, fuck those people, but that doesn't mean I would shoot myself in the foot and choose a dictator and upheaval of social systems created for the betterment of all people in this country. And while on that subject, you mention the Cheneys supporting Harris, what about neo nazi, white supremacists supporting Trump? Isn't that a fucking red flag to you? Good god, look at the big picture. Domestic terrorism will once again be on the rise and threaten this country and the nationalist view will leave the US out in the cold.

As for the ceasefire, maybe you weren't aware of this already so here you go.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/28/nx-s1-5168008/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-us-election

Also, no ceasefire is expected until January now because no one knows what to expect with our new dictator. 

What new wars were started by Trump? Biden is literally funding the war in Ukraine. Not to mention all the bomb Obama dropped on civilians. 

Yes I have problems with Israel and how they are handling the situation. 

Trump is not a dictator and anyone that says that has been brain washed.

pjl44

Poncier said:

pjl44 said:

Man watching Celtics game in the 3rd quarter:

"Very strange they haven't scored as much as Tuesday!"

They didn't play Tuesday. entire league was off for Election Day.

Nice try. We both know it was fraud.