** KAMALA HARRIS FOR PRESIDENT -PART DEUX **

JesseMcK

Funny - other than the Trump/Biden debate, I thought this was the most lopsided presidential debate of my lifetime (going back to Bush/Gore when I was in HS).

The bar is so low for Trump. We've all become used to his clipped way of speaking, but he physically looked terrible, and every answer he gave was a rant about some shit you need to be on Truth Social to understand. I've read a lot of "his closing remarks were strong" commentary today and they really weren't. He was hunched over and clammy looking, yelling into a podium in incomplete sentences. It was only fine if we're grading on a steep curve.

I really thought she fucking killed him. She dodged questions in a roundabout way which is what all politicians do in debates, but was generally on point and effective. 

As to the moderators they 100% held Trump's feet more to the fire than they did Harris. I'm sure that's what his supporters will clutch to today. But I thought it was an excellent way to moderate. I wish they had done more of the same to Harris.

njhaley1

Ah well, if he's saying he won by a lot, it must be true. 

Probably got the highest percentages ever seen for a convicted rapist and felon. 

josevolution

So again with we have a really good healthcare plan or several plans we’ve talked about! Really so since 2016 till now you’ve been working on a plan/plans for healthcare and you can’t name it? Maybe his under the impression that the plan is for the whole world?

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think she should debate again.  You can't do better than a beat down

Trump's ego will insist on another debate, "on his terms". His team won't let him do it. 

He was tweeting about having another one...my guess is that his team feels like Harris will be demanding one given how awful trump did and they are just heading off that surprise. He won't do it....no way.

teskeinc

josevolution said:

So again with we have a really good healthcare plan or several plans we’ve talked about! Really so since 2016 till now you’ve been working on a plan/plans for healthcare and you can’t name it? Maybe his under the impression that the plan is for the whole world?

He’s never had a plan for healthcare. He’s not working on a plan. The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare is terrible if you’ve ever looked at one of the exchanges. It’s not affordable for most. But the websites are set up and available. 

Gern Blansten

PJ_Soul said:

So I can't stomach Trump ever, so couldn't watch the debate. Do you all truly think Harris mopped the floor with him, or is it bias talking? Of course I would find it hard to believe he wasn't clobbered, but since I honestly can't handle watching any of it, I would love kind of a non-biased (biased but from a super rational viewpint) confirmation, lol. Apologies for not being able to conform for myself - I have my mental health to take care of!

 

His people will say he won but she was the only true presidential candidate up there. He spoke and acted like a fool. The bullshit coming out of his mouth about aborting babies the moment prior to birth, executing them after birth, immigrants eating dogs and cats, etc., was just weird.

Her walking over and shaking his hand at HIS podium was great. I figured she would do that. I'm thinking they probably agreed ahead of time to not shake hands and it surprised him.

njhaley1

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

I don't think she should debate again.  You can't do better than a beat down

Trump's ego will insist on another debate, "on his terms". His team won't let him do it. 

He was tweeting about having another one...my guess is that his team feels like Harris will be demanding one given how awful trump did and they are just heading off that surprise. He won't do it....no way.

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lindsey Flimsey Flip Flop Faloozy, as predicted:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), a Republican who is close to Trump, said he is encouraging the former president to do another debate, in part because he thinks Harris should have to answer “a tough question” — which he didn’t think she had to do tonight.

“The moderators sucked,” he said. “I thought it was horrible. It was awful.” Graham said he told Trump that one of his strongest moments was his closing argument — challenging Harris on why she hasn’t done more to change Americans’ lives over the past three and a half years.

“I think the president thinks he achieved his goal tonight of challenging her,” Graham said, “that you [Harris] own this. And you talk about all the things you’re going to do, why should we believe you?'”

He said he thinks Trump is open to another debate.

It's funny to me (but not surprising) that they are going after the moderators. They let trump take over the mic several times. I was kind of pissed off about it because he would just start talking and they would let him go. Harris did a few times but they seemed to push her off...partly because she was courteous and trump is a fucking idiot she would stop talking.

I haven't seen talking time stats yet...curious to see what those look like. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed like he talked a lot more than her. And maybe that was her plan?

Tim Simmons

I love that this goober can’t even fathom that people prepare and study up for stuff. 

njhaley1

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lindsey Flimsey Flip Flop Faloozy, as predicted:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), a Republican who is close to Trump, said he is encouraging the former president to do another debate, in part because he thinks Harris should have to answer “a tough question” — which he didn’t think she had to do tonight.

“The moderators sucked,” he said. “I thought it was horrible. It was awful.” Graham said he told Trump that one of his strongest moments was his closing argument — challenging Harris on why she hasn’t done more to change Americans’ lives over the past three and a half years.

“I think the president thinks he achieved his goal tonight of challenging her,” Graham said, “that you [Harris] own this. And you talk about all the things you’re going to do, why should we believe you?'”

He said he thinks Trump is open to another debate.

It's funny to me (but not surprising) that they are going after the moderators. They let trump take over the mic several times. I was kind of pissed off about it because he would just start talking and they would let him go. Harris did a few times but they seemed to push her off...partly because she was courteous and trump is a fucking idiot she would stop talking.

I haven't seen talking time stats yet...curious to see what those look like. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed like he talked a lot more than her. And maybe that was her plan?

I agree, but perhaps this was their way around the open mic limitation. 

It hurt her a little not being able to respond (who are these Wharton professors? Which national leaders are calling you, exactly?) but in the end they gave him just enough rope to hang himself. Might not have been thick enough for his fat ass, but it was long enough. 

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lindsey Flimsey Flip Flop Faloozy, as predicted:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), a Republican who is close to Trump, said he is encouraging the former president to do another debate, in part because he thinks Harris should have to answer “a tough question” — which he didn’t think she had to do tonight.

“The moderators sucked,” he said. “I thought it was horrible. It was awful.” Graham said he told Trump that one of his strongest moments was his closing argument — challenging Harris on why she hasn’t done more to change Americans’ lives over the past three and a half years.

“I think the president thinks he achieved his goal tonight of challenging her,” Graham said, “that you [Harris] own this. And you talk about all the things you’re going to do, why should we believe you?'”

He said he thinks Trump is open to another debate.

It's funny to me (but not surprising) that they are going after the moderators. They let trump take over the mic several times. I was kind of pissed off about it because he would just start talking and they would let him go. Harris did a few times but they seemed to push her off...partly because she was courteous and trump is a fucking idiot she would stop talking.

I haven't seen talking time stats yet...curious to see what those look like. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed like he talked a lot more than her. And maybe that was her plan?

fuckstick was +4 minutes

Gern Blansten

teskeinc said:

I thought it was a solid performance by Kamala. She seemed nervous the first 15-20 minutes but then settled in. She dodged the questions she needed to stay away from and pivoted to her “opportunity economy” whenever she got in trouble. But she stayed composed and really got under Trumps skin 30 min in when mentioning crowd size and people walking out.

Trump started out fairly strong but then became angry 30 min in. He avoided the question on if he would veto a national abortion ban. Looked bad on the question on if he would have done anything different on Jan 6th. His closing statement was very strong in my opinion and having the last word probably softened the damage Kamala inflicted. 

The fact checking of Trump during the debate seemed a little too one sided imo. Leave that for the analysis after. That’s not a moderators job.

Overall Kamala won. Not on the issues or policy but demeanor and delivery. The debate was light on ideas and policy and both went to straight attacking each other. I would expect a small bump for Kamala but at the end of the day no matter how much she wants to turn the page she has to still defend her record. 

Kamala - B
Trump - C
 

Fact checking is a moderators job. When the lies are that blatant they don't have a choice. All politicians stretch the truth but his lies about Jan 6th are too much to let go. We all know what happened because we saw it live. We know when he tweeted and released that ridiculous video. Letting that shit go unchallenged just has to stop. 

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

So I can't stomach Trump ever, so couldn't watch the debate. Do you all truly think Harris mopped the floor with him, or is it bias talking? Of course I would find it hard to believe he wasn't clobbered, but since I honestly can't handle watching any of it, I would love kind of a non-biased (biased but from a super rational viewpint) confirmation, lol. Apologies for not being able to conform for myself - I have my mental health to take care of!

 

She destroyed him. She was nearly flawless in how she handled him.

I wish she would have answered more questions though. And I was stunned she answered the Afghanistan question but talking about $ and never mentioned the people lost. Very trumpiam answer.

But that is nitpicking. She was terrific.

As upset as trump appeared to be about the 13 people killed in Afghanistan (he wanted ALL generals fired...because of a suicide bomber) I was really hoping Harris would point out how many service people died during his administration. I think she missed a good opportunity there.

It sucks to compare military deaths if you support the cause, so maybe that's why she let it go, but more people died under trump than Biden so far. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

I just turned on the news and Trump is saying he won by a lot. So I don’t know now.

yeah he was referencing a Newsmax poll...93% said he won...laughable. He looked like an old fat fool with at least four different zones of makeup on his face.

Gern Blansten

I'm seeing roughly 43 minutes of time for trump and 38 mins for Harris...seems about right.

teskeinc

Tim Simmons said:

I love that this goober can’t even fathom that people prepare and study up for stuff. 

She was prepared and rehearsed. She dodged the issues that she didn’t want to talk about. Why they waited 3.5 years to address the border and do they bear any responsibility for inflation? She wanted no part of those topics. The moderators didn’t press her for an answer like they did to Trump 2-3 times.

Honestly Trump was the same as every other debate. He lied and exaggerated  Harris was simply more polished and was able to stay on her message. Of course she lied and exaggerated some as well. Still there wasn’t the policy and ideas that were presented on what she would do. Just a broad “opportunity economy” with a couple of tax breaks. 

Trump dropped the ball. He just simply had to ask her repeatedly “why didn’t you do that at anytime over the last 3.5 years?” 

Gern Blansten

JesseMcK said:

Funny - other than the Trump/Biden debate, I thought this was the most lopsided presidential debate of my lifetime (going back to Bush/Gore when I was in HS).

The bar is so low for Trump. We've all become used to his clipped way of speaking, but he physically looked terrible, and every answer he gave was a rant about some shit you need to be on Truth Social to understand. I've read a lot of "his closing remarks were strong" commentary today and they really weren't. He was hunched over and clammy looking, yelling into a podium in incomplete sentences. It was only fine if we're grading on a steep curve.

I really thought she fucking killed him. She dodged questions in a roundabout way which is what all politicians do in debates, but was generally on point and effective. 

As to the moderators they 100% held Trump's feet more to the fire than they did Harris. I'm sure that's what his supporters will clutch to today. But I thought it was an excellent way to moderate. I wish they had done more of the same to Harris.

Harris wasn't blatantly lying...trump's lies were so out of bounds it would be journalistic suicide to just let it go

The Springfield, OH crap is a good example...all this shit starts flying around TikTok about Haitians eating pets and trump brings that up in the debate to a national audience? All day yesterday I was seeing the Springfield City Manager comment on how that was totally false. 

Gern Blansten

teskeinc said:

josevolution said:

So again with we have a really good healthcare plan or several plans we’ve talked about! Really so since 2016 till now you’ve been working on a plan/plans for healthcare and you can’t name it? Maybe his under the impression that the plan is for the whole world?

He’s never had a plan for healthcare. He’s not working on a plan. The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare is terrible if you’ve ever looked at one of the exchanges. It’s not affordable for most. But the websites are set up and available. 

As someone who has been on it for years that is false. Also...as someone who prepares about 700 individual tax returns each year I can tell you that the marketplace plans are perfect for low and middle income people. The subsidies they receive for premiums make their plans affordable. For those of us that don't qualify for subsidies I can tell you that the premiums suck but they wouldn't be any better without the marketplace. My insurance premium now is not much more than I was paying Anthem 20 years ago prior to the marketplace.

teskeinc

Gern Blansten said:

teskeinc said:

josevolution said:

So again with we have a really good healthcare plan or several plans we’ve talked about! Really so since 2016 till now you’ve been working on a plan/plans for healthcare and you can’t name it? Maybe his under the impression that the plan is for the whole world?

He’s never had a plan for healthcare. He’s not working on a plan. The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare is terrible if you’ve ever looked at one of the exchanges. It’s not affordable for most. But the websites are set up and available. 

As someone who has been on it for years that is false. Also...as someone who prepares about 700 individual tax returns each year I can tell you that the marketplace plans are perfect for low and middle income people. The subsidies they receive for premiums make their plans affordable. For those of us that don't qualify for subsidies I can tell you that the premiums suck but they wouldn't be any better without the marketplace. My insurance premium now is not much more than I was paying Anthem 20 years ago prior to the marketplace.

I’ll take your word then. When I checked for myself, the premiums seemed crazy high but my income was probably way too high to get subsidies then.

The Juggler

Complete 180 from June. Honestly, this is why I liked her in the primaries five years ago. I felt like she was the only one who could do that to Trump given her background and relative youthfulness compared to him.

Complete and total domination from her first emasculating handshake. Trump looked scared--and I do not believe was man enough to even look in her direction, let alone her eyes, the ENTIRE evening. Seriously, what was up with that? I thought he was the big bad alpha male? Came across as a whiny/angry little beta b^*ch all night. She was a little shaky with her first answer but she recovered and owned just about every question and was on the offensive from there on.

Ticked off all the boxes I thought and expected her to hit:
Came off as competent and up for the job.
Didn't take take Trump's bait, instead he took hers all night long. She was toying with him. 
Didn't get bogged down in fact checking.
Didn't get rattled, instead gave a quick response to his nonsense, often times with humor, then pivoted to what she wanted to say. 
Even mentioned Hannibal Lecter!! LOVED that part as it set that idiot off in a rambling incoherent tangent.  

All in all, I think this has the chance to alter the course of the election....by that I mean by about 1.5% which is actually all she needs in such a tight race. 

Fantastic night all together. Trump is toast. 

The Juggler

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

So I can't stomach Trump ever, so couldn't watch the debate. Do you all truly think Harris mopped the floor with him, or is it bias talking? Of course I would find it hard to believe he wasn't clobbered, but since I honestly can't handle watching any of it, I would love kind of a non-biased (biased but from a super rational viewpint) confirmation, lol. Apologies for not being able to conform for myself - I have my mental health to take care of!

 

His people will say he won but she was the only true presidential candidate up there. He spoke and acted like a fool. The bullshit coming out of his mouth about aborting babies the moment prior to birth, executing them after birth, immigrants eating dogs and cats, etc., was just weird.

Her walking over and shaking his hand at HIS podium was great. I figured she would do that. I'm thinking they probably agreed ahead of time to not shake hands and it surprised him.

@PJ_Soul --I would actually say the fact that Trump showed up in the spin room himself and that his supporters are all whining about the moderators today is all the proof you need that even they know he got his clock cleaned.

Lindsey Graham even conceded that his debate prep team should be fired. 

He got rocked. 

Gern Blansten

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

teskeinc said:

josevolution said:

So again with we have a really good healthcare plan or several plans we’ve talked about! Really so since 2016 till now you’ve been working on a plan/plans for healthcare and you can’t name it? Maybe his under the impression that the plan is for the whole world?

He’s never had a plan for healthcare. He’s not working on a plan. The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare is terrible if you’ve ever looked at one of the exchanges. It’s not affordable for most. But the websites are set up and available. 

As someone who has been on it for years that is false. Also...as someone who prepares about 700 individual tax returns each year I can tell you that the marketplace plans are perfect for low and middle income people. The subsidies they receive for premiums make their plans affordable. For those of us that don't qualify for subsidies I can tell you that the premiums suck but they wouldn't be any better without the marketplace. My insurance premium now is not much more than I was paying Anthem 20 years ago prior to the marketplace.

I’ll take your word then. When I checked for myself, the premiums seemed crazy high but my income was probably way too high to get subsidies then.

they are high...but they aren't any worse then before

What did you end up doing? It seems like there are still some plans outside of the marketplace that seem better if you don't have any pre-existing conditions, etc.

I have a few clients that stuck with their Anthem plans and their premiums are ridiculous.

mrussel1

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

teskeinc said:

josevolution said:

So again with we have a really good healthcare plan or several plans we’ve talked about! Really so since 2016 till now you’ve been working on a plan/plans for healthcare and you can’t name it? Maybe his under the impression that the plan is for the whole world?

He’s never had a plan for healthcare. He’s not working on a plan. The Affordable Care Act or Obamacare is terrible if you’ve ever looked at one of the exchanges. It’s not affordable for most. But the websites are set up and available. 

As someone who has been on it for years that is false. Also...as someone who prepares about 700 individual tax returns each year I can tell you that the marketplace plans are perfect for low and middle income people. The subsidies they receive for premiums make their plans affordable. For those of us that don't qualify for subsidies I can tell you that the premiums suck but they wouldn't be any better without the marketplace. My insurance premium now is not much more than I was paying Anthem 20 years ago prior to the marketplace.

I’ll take your word then. When I checked for myself, the premiums seemed crazy high but my income was probably way too high to get subsidies then.

The covered pre-existing conditions is critically important to all Americans whereas the marketplace is for those who do not have company provided insurance.  So focusing on the pre-existing conditions was a great plan as we all benefit from that.  

mrussel1

The Juggler said:

Complete 180 from June. Honestly, this is why I liked her in the primaries five years ago. I felt like she was the only one who could do that to Trump given her background and relative youthfulness compared to him.

Complete and total domination from her first emasculating handshake. Trump looked scared--and I do not believe was man enough to even look in her direction, let alone her eyes, the ENTIRE evening. Seriously, what was up with that? I thought he was the big bad alpha male? Came across as a whiny/angry little beta b^*ch all night. She was a little shaky with her first answer but she recovered and owned just about every question and was on the offensive from there on.

Ticked off all the boxes I thought and expected her to hit:
Came off as competent and up for the job.
Didn't take take Trump's bait, instead he took hers all night long. She was toying with him. 
Didn't get bogged down in fact checking.
Didn't get rattled, instead gave a quick response to his nonsense, often times with humor, then pivoted to what she wanted to say. 
Even mentioned Hannibal Lecter!! LOVED that part as it set that idiot off in a rambling incoherent tangent.  

All in all, I think this has the chance to alter the course of the election....by that I mean by about 1.5% which is actually all she needs in such a tight race. 

Fantastic night all together. Trump is toast. 

I would have loved for her to point out at the end of the debate how she toyed with him, triggered him, distracted him from what is important.  And then remind the audience that this is what Putin and other world leaders did to him every day.  It's this easy.  

njhaley1

The Juggler

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

Complete 180 from June. Honestly, this is why I liked her in the primaries five years ago. I felt like she was the only one who could do that to Trump given her background and relative youthfulness compared to him.

Complete and total domination from her first emasculating handshake. Trump looked scared--and I do not believe was man enough to even look in her direction, let alone her eyes, the ENTIRE evening. Seriously, what was up with that? I thought he was the big bad alpha male? Came across as a whiny/angry little beta b^*ch all night. She was a little shaky with her first answer but she recovered and owned just about every question and was on the offensive from there on.

Ticked off all the boxes I thought and expected her to hit:
Came off as competent and up for the job.
Didn't take take Trump's bait, instead he took hers all night long. She was toying with him. 
Didn't get bogged down in fact checking.
Didn't get rattled, instead gave a quick response to his nonsense, often times with humor, then pivoted to what she wanted to say. 
Even mentioned Hannibal Lecter!! LOVED that part as it set that idiot off in a rambling incoherent tangent.  

All in all, I think this has the chance to alter the course of the election....by that I mean by about 1.5% which is actually all she needs in such a tight race. 

Fantastic night all together. Trump is toast. 

I would have loved for her to point out at the end of the debate how she toyed with him, triggered him, distracted him from what is important.  And then remind the audience that this is what Putin and other world leaders did to him every day.  It's this easy.  

Well there's only so much time...and Trump took up most of it.

She did mention how weak it is for someone to be so easily manipulated by flattery. I loved that part.

Also liked how she said the world is laughing at him and our military leaders, some he worked with, call him a "disgrace". She used that word multiple times. 

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

Complete 180 from June. Honestly, this is why I liked her in the primaries five years ago. I felt like she was the only one who could do that to Trump given her background and relative youthfulness compared to him.

Complete and total domination from her first emasculating handshake. Trump looked scared--and I do not believe was man enough to even look in her direction, let alone her eyes, the ENTIRE evening. Seriously, what was up with that? I thought he was the big bad alpha male? Came across as a whiny/angry little beta b^*ch all night. She was a little shaky with her first answer but she recovered and owned just about every question and was on the offensive from there on.

Ticked off all the boxes I thought and expected her to hit:
Came off as competent and up for the job.
Didn't take take Trump's bait, instead he took hers all night long. She was toying with him. 
Didn't get bogged down in fact checking.
Didn't get rattled, instead gave a quick response to his nonsense, often times with humor, then pivoted to what she wanted to say. 
Even mentioned Hannibal Lecter!! LOVED that part as it set that idiot off in a rambling incoherent tangent.  

All in all, I think this has the chance to alter the course of the election....by that I mean by about 1.5% which is actually all she needs in such a tight race. 

Fantastic night all together. Trump is toast. 

I would have loved for her to point out at the end of the debate how she toyed with him, triggered him, distracted him from what is important.  And then remind the audience that this is what Putin and other world leaders did to him every day.  It's this easy.  

I thought she hit him good about how he can be influenced by flattery and favors....completely true. I know that comment drove the magats insane.

Gern Blansten

Good inflation news today....rate cuts coming soon. 

mrussel1

njhaley1 said:

Nicely done!  

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lindsey Flimsey Flip Flop Faloozy, as predicted:

Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), a Republican who is close to Trump, said he is encouraging the former president to do another debate, in part because he thinks Harris should have to answer “a tough question” — which he didn’t think she had to do tonight.

“The moderators sucked,” he said. “I thought it was horrible. It was awful.” Graham said he told Trump that one of his strongest moments was his closing argument — challenging Harris on why she hasn’t done more to change Americans’ lives over the past three and a half years.

“I think the president thinks he achieved his goal tonight of challenging her,” Graham said, “that you [Harris] own this. And you talk about all the things you’re going to do, why should we believe you?'”

He said he thinks Trump is open to another debate.

It's funny to me (but not surprising) that they are going after the moderators. They let trump take over the mic several times. I was kind of pissed off about it because he would just start talking and they would let him go. Harris did a few times but they seemed to push her off...partly because she was courteous and trump is a fucking idiot she would stop talking.

I haven't seen talking time stats yet...curious to see what those look like. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed like he talked a lot more than her. And maybe that was her plan?

I actually didn't think that part was that bad. They said they would get a 1 minute rebuttal. It looked like to me Trump would just take that 1 minute without waiting to be prompted to respond, so it might have looked like he was just going off. Or he'd ask for a rebuttal before moving on and they'd grant it to him. The time seemed fair and within the rules that they set.