It’s a tough job to defend all your parties mistakes and incompetence. Peddler of non truths is doing Gods work. If Harris wins he’s definitely getting a red star!
LOL...trump is selling more digital trading cards to the magats. Still hard to believe people give that piece of shit their money.
the economy is so terrible according to trump, but instead of having compassion and telling them to save their money he is trying to sell them trading cards that nobody but maga wants, lol.
going into debt to own the libs!!!
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
LOL...trump is selling more digital trading cards to the magats. Still hard to believe people give that piece of shit their money.
the economy is so terrible according to trump, but instead of having compassion and telling them to save their money he is trying to sell them trading cards that nobody but maga wants, lol.
going into debt to own the libs!!!
It just gets me thinking about all the times I've heard "why don't we see any Biden hats or flags""....because we aren't stupid. We don't buy stupid shit.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context.
It’s a tough job to defend all your parties mistakes and incompetence. Peddler of non truths is doing Gods work. If Harris wins he’s definitely getting a red star!
It must feel so good for you to just claim I’m an independent I can just sit on the fence and see which way I fall after the dust clears! You can’t be neutral on a MT I wonder who wrote that uhmm
LOL...trump is selling more digital trading cards to the magats. Still hard to believe people give that piece of shit their money.
Harris has a war chest of 500 million? Who is giving this scumbag their money?
Me...a small business owner with employees, father of four children, a person who values democracy. Someone who does not buy stupid hats and flags that scream "I support a total fuckwad!"
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context.
You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
It shows how brainwashed this forum is when Zuckerberg just admitted that the Biden/Harris administration coerced Facebook to censor things not favorable to them. And no one can even step up and say what they did was totally wrong.You were lied to, you think that was the only app or medium? Wake up!
Regardless of your political affiliation there are some things that shouldn’t be defended.
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
should we have stayed there and broken the deal?
it was a tough decision. unfortunately people died. nobody ever gets out of a war cleanly, especially when occupying another country.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.
That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
It shows how brainwashed this forum is when Zuckerberg just admitted that the Biden/Harris administration coerced Facebook to censor things not favorable to them. And no one can even step up and say what they did was totally wrong.You were lied to, you think that was the only app or medium? Wake up!
Regardless of your political affiliation there are some things that shouldn’t be defended.
There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context.
You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.
You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
Nobody but those that were on the ground and had/have a full understanding of the geopolitical situation knew that no matter what you did, you were fucked because the Afghan army was going to collapse as soon as the US said they were out. There never was going to be an “orderly efficient withdrawal.”
Its what 11 years of repubs and 9 years of dem administrations being played by Pakistan (remember them) gets you.
There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context.
You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.
You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.
You only get a certain amount of chances to prove you're a serious person.
There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context.
You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.
You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.
You only get a certain amount of chances to prove you're a serious person.
especially when your first post is a misrepresentation of your politics. it's like dipping a toe in the water before cannonballing in.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.
That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?
Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
should we have stayed there and broken the deal?
it was a tough decision. unfortunately people died. nobody ever gets out of a war cleanly, especially when occupying another country.
Of course we shouldn't have stayed, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that mistakes were made in the process and it was a rush job. It's always easier to criticize in hindsight, but I think it's been established that it was not unrealistic for the US to be better prepared in the evacuation. You can read several neutral, and even left leaning journalists, who are critical of how it played out. I'll cite just one which I think does a good job outlining some of the problems.
Yet it’s also not quite correct to suggest that the Trump administration alone is to blame for how the summer of 2021 unfolded or the harried nature of the last two weeks of August in Kabul. Biden and his team had agency in the decision to withdraw in 2021 and in the manner of the withdrawal. And the roots of the fall of the Afghan government and the army in 2021 went beyond the Doha deal — they were a deeper reflection of the ultimately unsuccessful 20-year American effort in Afghanistan. Any honest reckoning with the events of August 2021 is incomplete without acknowledging that.
The Biden administration undertook an Afghanistan review in the early months of 2021. There were a few choices it should have considered seriously, other than the two it says it had: to leave on the Doha deal’s timeline or to stay on, risking American lives; it chose the former. But it could have exercised more agency (as I argued at the time). It could have focused on pushing harder for an intra-Afghan peace deal (between the Afghan government and the Taliban), attempting a soft conditionality of the withdrawal on achieving such a peace deal; or it could have formally attempted a renegotiation of the Doha deal. In the end, the decision to withdraw according to the summer 2021 timeline displayed extraordinary fidelity to a Doha deal negotiated by a predecessor whose other policy actions Biden certainly has not taken as given. It was also a deal in which the other party, the Taliban, was not reliable, and to whose terms it had not stuck, even in terms of counterterrorism. And in the end, for all the administration’s critique of the Doha deal, it chose to retain Khalilzad, its chief negotiator, as its own Afghanistan point person through the withdrawal.
This is not to discredit the courage or effort it took for an American President to finally end the disaster in Afghanistan, but with that we should all be able to admit the failures along with the success of actual full withdrawal without constantly trying to blame someone else. It can be both.
Ultimately, I blame Bush for the most epic disaster this country has been involved in since Vietnam. So while miss a GOP candidate that was at least friendlier to his American counterparts, I don't miss warhawk GOP equivalents. Bush, and his admin now supporting Harris, can fuck right off in to eternity. Their renewed confidence in being able to speak out again after all their lies and bullshit, only furthers the point of how much more shitty the GOP has become and how more centerline dems are currently.
There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context.
You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.
You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.
You only get a certain amount of chances to prove you're a serious person.
especially when your first post is a misrepresentation of your politics. it's like dipping a toe in the water before cannonballing in.
Yeah. There's no point in seriously engaging with someone like that.
3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!
At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk.
How sick are Biden and Harris?
President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were
severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump
took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen
months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the
stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with
our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In
September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting
them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States
and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United
States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the
Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops
and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States
remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal,
President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban
fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of
the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.
I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.
should we have stayed there and broken the deal?
it was a tough decision. unfortunately people died. nobody ever gets out of a war cleanly, especially when occupying another country.
Of course we shouldn't have stayed, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that mistakes were made in the process and it was a rush job. It's always easier to criticize in hindsight, but I think it's been established that it was not unrealistic for the US to be better prepared in the evacuation. You can read several neutral, and even left leaning journalists, who are critical of how it played out. I'll cite just one which I think does a good job outlining some of the problems.
Yet it’s also not quite correct to suggest that the Trump administration alone is to blame for how the summer of 2021 unfolded or the harried nature of the last two weeks of August in Kabul. Biden and his team had agency in the decision to withdraw in 2021 and in the manner of the withdrawal. And the roots of the fall of the Afghan government and the army in 2021 went beyond the Doha deal — they were a deeper reflection of the ultimately unsuccessful 20-year American effort in Afghanistan. Any honest reckoning with the events of August 2021 is incomplete without acknowledging that.
The Biden administration undertook an Afghanistan review in the early months of 2021. There were a few choices it should have considered seriously, other than the two it says it had: to leave on the Doha deal’s timeline or to stay on, risking American lives; it chose the former. But it could have exercised more agency (as I argued at the time). It could have focused on pushing harder for an intra-Afghan peace deal (between the Afghan government and the Taliban), attempting a soft conditionality of the withdrawal on achieving such a peace deal; or it could have formally attempted a renegotiation of the Doha deal. In the end, the decision to withdraw according to the summer 2021 timeline displayed extraordinary fidelity to a Doha deal negotiated by a predecessor whose other policy actions Biden certainly has not taken as given. It was also a deal in which the other party, the Taliban, was not reliable, and to whose terms it had not stuck, even in terms of counterterrorism. And in the end, for all the administration’s critique of the Doha deal, it chose to retain Khalilzad, its chief negotiator, as its own Afghanistan point person through the withdrawal.
This is not to discredit the courage or effort it took for an American President to finally end the disaster in Afghanistan, but with that we should all be able to admit the failures along with the success of actual full withdrawal without constantly trying to blame someone else. It can be both.
Ultimately, I blame Bush for the most epic disaster this country has been involved in since Vietnam. So while miss a GOP candidate that was at least friendlier to his American counterparts, I don't miss warhawk GOP equivalents. Bush, and his admin now supporting Harris, can fuck right off in to eternity. Their renewed confidence in being able to speak out again after all their lies and bullshit, only furthers the point of how much more shitty the GOP has become and how more centerline dems are currently.
i agree. i don't like how it turned out either, but we had to get out. yes it was rushed, yes people died, including afghan civilians, but like i said, there is no clean exit from a war. no matter how bad we want it, there is no clean exit.
i agree, bush and the neocons are completely to blame. i think the only reason those people are sticking their heads up at this point is because trump was so terrible on so many more levels, that they feel like it is safe to speak up. if trump had been even a decent president and the gop had not gone full blown maga, we would never hear from w and cheney again. those guys got away with war crimes and are free to live out their natural lives with no worries. to me that is the most tragic part. the perpetrators got away with it and have continued to live on free from worry of prosecution.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
going into debt to own the libs!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I promise to start right now.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
anyhoo
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Regardless of your political affiliation there are some things that shouldn’t be defended.
it was a tough decision. unfortunately people died. nobody ever gets out of a war cleanly, especially when occupying another country.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Its what 11 years of repubs and 9 years of dem administrations being played by Pakistan (remember them) gets you.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-the-biden-administrations-report-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal-gets-wrong/
Yet it’s also not quite correct to suggest that the Trump administration alone is to blame for how the summer of 2021 unfolded or the harried nature of the last two weeks of August in Kabul. Biden and his team had agency in the decision to withdraw in 2021 and in the manner of the withdrawal. And the roots of the fall of the Afghan government and the army in 2021 went beyond the Doha deal — they were a deeper reflection of the ultimately unsuccessful 20-year American effort in Afghanistan. Any honest reckoning with the events of August 2021 is incomplete without acknowledging that.
The Biden administration undertook an Afghanistan review in the early months of 2021. There were a few choices it should have considered seriously, other than the two it says it had: to leave on the Doha deal’s timeline or to stay on, risking American lives; it chose the former. But it could have exercised more agency (as I argued at the time). It could have focused on pushing harder for an intra-Afghan peace deal (between the Afghan government and the Taliban), attempting a soft conditionality of the withdrawal on achieving such a peace deal; or it could have formally attempted a renegotiation of the Doha deal. In the end, the decision to withdraw according to the summer 2021 timeline displayed extraordinary fidelity to a Doha deal negotiated by a predecessor whose other policy actions Biden certainly has not taken as given. It was also a deal in which the other party, the Taliban, was not reliable, and to whose terms it had not stuck, even in terms of counterterrorism. And in the end, for all the administration’s critique of the Doha deal, it chose to retain Khalilzad, its chief negotiator, as its own Afghanistan point person through the withdrawal.
This is not to discredit the courage or effort it took for an American President to finally end the disaster in Afghanistan, but with that we should all be able to admit the failures along with the success of actual full withdrawal without constantly trying to blame someone else. It can be both.
Ultimately, I blame Bush for the most epic disaster this country has been involved in since Vietnam. So while miss a GOP candidate that was at least friendlier to his American counterparts, I don't miss warhawk GOP equivalents. Bush, and his admin now supporting Harris, can fuck right off in to eternity. Their renewed confidence in being able to speak out again after all their lies and bullshit, only furthers the point of how much more shitty the GOP has become and how more centerline dems are currently.
i agree, bush and the neocons are completely to blame. i think the only reason those people are sticking their heads up at this point is because trump was so terrible on so many more levels, that they feel like it is safe to speak up. if trump had been even a decent president and the gop had not gone full blown maga, we would never hear from w and cheney again. those guys got away with war crimes and are free to live out their natural lives with no worries. to me that is the most tragic part. the perpetrators got away with it and have continued to live on free from worry of prosecution.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."