2024 Tour Merch Thread-Any Info or Pictures to share

on2legs

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

thirdbeach

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

Artists want and need people to flip their posters.  It’s a market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.  

i don't know about other artists, but I completely disagree...

as an artist I do not want people to flip my posters nor need them to... as much as fans may not like flippers, the fan is merely missing out on not being able to acquire a work of art they would like to own or forced to pay more then it was originally... as an artist, the flipper is making money off my work that they had no part in and deserve no amount of money from work they had nothing to do with.

As artists we often get used all the time.... we get hired on the basis of "this will be good exposure for you, look good in your portfolio, so we don't have to pay you very much or at all" and / or "theres's a line of people behind you who will do it for free, so take it or leave it".... we pour our creativity, time and energy into work and believe it or not, in the big internationally famous spectacle of the music industry, artists often don't get paid great... ask any major band how they feel about how little they get paid from streaming services... before that it was how badly music artists get screwed by record labels (i too think ticket sales have become ridiculous but bands are losing avenues to make money, so I can understand it partially).... like all aspects the 1% of artists are the multi millionaires, be they musician or artist or actor or any medium,.. people see the top and assume it's that way for all... it's not.. there's a reason why there's the cliche about "the starving artist"... 

so when some random dude gets to profit $100-300 bucks off flipping one of my posters, they are a leech, slithering up after all the work has been done, contributing zero in any shape or form to the piece of art that was made, and THEY get to make money.......???? It's not a lot of money, a few hundred bucks  here and there but no one except the artist should be able to profit at ALL... so on top of pouring your heart and soul into your work and 8 out of 10 times not getting remotely compensated fairly for your time and energy, some other jack asses are making money off your work on the side?? gtfoh 

I don't want that... not only that, flippers add more of a headache to my job.... on top of the job i was hired to do, creating the artwork for weeks, before i get paid, I then have to sell my posters... I have to become customer service, the mail room staff, the store manager, and then I have to now police and look for flippers and then field emails from people complaining about flippers or crying about how they are not a flipper after I refund their order... so for being hired to make art for a poster, it also comes with a side dish of handling unnecessary drama from grown adults. 

And it's not market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.... it's the quality of the work and if it resonates with fans.I know this because I've had posters sell out in a moment and posters that are still in my flat file drawers years and years later.  Sure some buy them because they know they can flip it immediately and make a couple hundred bucks right away but most people are not flippers. The extremes, in probably almost everything, are not the standard. Most people just want the poster. And that too is why they sell out in a moment after they go on sale... you at times have thousands of people all vying for 100 - 200 of the same thing... people from all over the world all black fridaying a website looking for a known limited item at exactly the same time.


I partially apologize for the rant, I've been packing posters this weekend and the flipper thing is fresh on my brain and irritation as it just causes me more work and more headache... and this post caught the raw end of that irritation.... 


the sad reality: flipping is an ever present never going away aspect of this interest / passion / hobby we all love... until we solve the whole no longer interested in greed as a species, flipping will always be here and a part of this as it has been the whole time. It's the same conversation / complaints about flippers every time, year after year... they are not going away today or tomorrow or next year or ever. 

A little trip back in time.  2006 Flatstock in Seattle.  Brad had a bunch of amazing prints for the tour.  Doors opened at 10am.  There were a ton of people outside with one goal in mind - figure out where Brad was set up and get there as fast as possible.  I was nowhere near the front.  By the time I figured out what was up there was already a long line.  Price was $60 a print and you could only buy 1 of each print.  It was really depressing to watch people with a bunch of cash saying "I want one of every print".  One guy stood out.  He took his kids.  So the kids bought 1 of every print.  I am sure they are huge fans of the band as well as Brad's work.
I managed to score a few prints (including DC) but Toronto had been sold out.  
Brad and his girlfriend were literally under siege.  I felt really bad for all of the other talented artists that were there.  The look on their faces was like "what the hell is going on".
Fast forward a few years and after a party night I am circling the showbox looking for a parking spot.  It's Sunday morning and the 10 club was having the poster show.  We ended up being around the corner which I knew was not good.  When we got in my wife immediately got in the 10 club line and I went to score a few prints.  As luck would have it Brad brought one of his last remaining Toronto prints which I was really happy to finally get.
I joined my wife in the 10 club line.  The guy in front of us bought the last Benaroya vinyl set that they had.  $400.  I was bummed out.  After consoling myself with a few beers later I went on Ebay.  Some guy from Lake Stevens was there earlier than me and had it listed for $1250.  I bought it and was happy that he made it available.  
I've seen both sides of the reselling thing and can understand the frustration of missing out because of a flipper.  That being said I was out of the country for the Seattle shows and would buy a hockey jersey today for $200.

lexicondevil

This all reminds me of the artist, a little while ago, who questioned this type of "payment" and she was skewered by a lot of people here. As if she should have been grateful to do any work for PJ. Also, reminds me of the music scene in L.A. in the 80s where bands would have to buy their own tickets and sell them to get any pay. The old "pay to play" situation was great for promoters and clubs, but shitty for us musicians who just wanted to play music for people and not lose money. It sucks that more musicians aren't standing up for a more equitable system of payment for all of the hard work that poster artists put into their art.

demetrios

https://instagram.com/p/C8MsNeMpiuP/embed/

SHZA

lexicondevil said:

This all reminds me of the artist, a little while ago, who questioned this type of "payment" and she was skewered by a lot of people here. As if she should have been grateful to do any work for PJ. Also, reminds me of the music scene in L.A. in the 80s where bands would have to buy their own tickets and sell them to get any pay. The old "pay to play" situation was great for promoters and clubs, but shitty for us musicians who just wanted to play music for people and not lose money. It sucks that more musicians aren't standing up for a more equitable system of payment for all of the hard work that poster artists put into their art.

I believe that situation involved shows on the Australian leg. It struck me as nuts that the artist would have to wait until November to get paid 

bradklausen

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

pjl44

If you find any of these stories infuriating like I do you can make a difference by going and buying a poster or two from an artist you like

on2legs

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

Totally not missing your point.  Just disagreeing that someone who resells a poster is doing the same as someone hoarding food. 

Your art is awesome and we are all big fans.  The Nashville ‘22 is my favorite of your recent work and it’s hanging on my wall. Can’t wait to see your next creation.  ✌🏻

Patrick_Sea3

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

What’s your opinion on the Ames Brothers recent sales? They are basically flipping their own posters.

thirdbeach

Patrick_Sea3 said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

What’s your opinion on the Ames Brothers recent sales? They are basically flipping their own posters.

They are selling posters that they have made over the last 20 years for market price.  Selling the last few prints they have for the going rate.  The pricey prints are over 25 years old.  If anyone deserves the $$ it's the artists.  

pjl44

Patrick_Sea3 said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

What’s your opinion on the Ames Brothers recent sales? They are basically flipping their own posters.

It's not flipping if it's your own work

BloodMeridian80

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

Agreed. There are levels of asshole-ness, and imo, flippers are on the scale somewhere. 

pjl44

thirdbeach said:

Patrick_Sea3 said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

bradklausen said:

on2legs said:

I think the ethics of buying a poster for the purpose of selling it for a profit is a topic that you provided a lot of insight to today from the artists point of view.  It was a really good conversation.  But I’m going to disagree with the food bank analogy. Posters aren’t a necessity like food and toilet paper. 

posters are not like food and toilet paper... we don't need posters... 

but buying food or a poster or toilet paper, or anything there might be a limit on knowing lots of people are looking for the same item and you  buy more then your share to resell at a higher prices...... it's the same exact practice

the practice of buying more then your share, more then you need, with the intention to resell it at higher price to those you know know will be forced to pay your prices because the item was limited 

you don't need a poster to survive, so sure it's not as awful as hoarding food bank food and reselling it to the people in line behind you... but the practice is exact same thing.

people bought more toilet paper then they needed during covid, knowing it would be sought after and they could make a profit.... how is that any different then people knowing a poster will be sought after and buying more then they need because they know they can make a profit? 

I think you answered the question at the end of this post with the first line from this post.  

✌🏻

right, I understand food and toilet paper are  necessities and posters are not... but you seem to miss the point, expressed in the other sentences besides the first one, that regardless of whether an item is a necessity or not, the practice of hoarding things to resell to people is the same regardless if the item is a necessity or not... it's the same drive / desire to make money off people and to exploit people.. so a person buying more toilet paper then they need knowing they can resell it, is doing the same thing a person buying more pj merch then they need knowing they can resell it.... we'd all agree doing this with food or necessities is worse, but the mentality and drive to do that is the same mentality, which is "I can make money off people" regardless of the item 

What’s your opinion on the Ames Brothers recent sales? They are basically flipping their own posters.

They are selling posters that they have made over the last 20 years for market price.  Selling the last few prints they have for the going rate.  The pricey prints are over 25 years old.  If anyone deserves the $$ it's the artists.  

Exactly. If Ames sold those old prints at say half the market price, they'd be scooped up and flipped immediately. Let the artist rake.

Spiritual_Chaos

on2legs

I’m excited to see the posters and merch for the Euro tour.  The sticker and shirt designs have been pretty good so far and there have been some really nice posters.  Jealous of all attending and patiently waiting for the September shows.  🤘🏻

demetrios

on2legs said:

I’m excited to see the posters and merch for the Euro tour.  The sticker and shirt designs have been pretty good so far and there have been some really nice posters.  Jealous of all attending and patiently waiting for the September shows.  🤘🏻

Me too! 

Planet of Sound

Hoping for a new name or two to knock a design out of the park, for sure!

Hoccapuk

So from everyone’s opinion thus far, the quality of the apparel is just not that good right?  Was thinking of getting the green tour shirt, hoodie and black jacket but everything I’m reading makes me question that….

BlueLedbetter

Hoccapuk said:

So from everyone’s opinion thus far, the quality of the apparel is just not that good right?  Was thinking of getting the green tour shirt, hoodie and black jacket but everything I’m reading makes me question that….

Wonder if Europe will have different suppliers ?

Kwieneke

Hoccapuk said:

So from everyone’s opinion thus far, the quality of the apparel is just not that good right?  Was thinking of getting the green tour shirt, hoodie and black jacket but everything I’m reading makes me question that….

the hoodie so far is very nice. Made by independent trading company (I think thats the brand). I still have PJ sweatshirt from 2003 that they made