Ticket prices. This is not for you (the fans).

Get_Right

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

PJNB

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

mpedone

schaefferlax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

RatherStarved said:

mpedone said:

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

pdalowsky said:

pjl44 said:

There are few bands who have done as much as Pearl Jam to get incredible seats into the hands of their fans at a reasonable price. I'd be hard pressed to put anyone above them when you factor in how long it's been a priority for them. And you can see how it gets harder and harder as the years go by.

100%

People do not get it

The reasonable prices are only for a subset of fans that win the lottery and also have seniority. Every one else is staring at the cheapest NY tickets at $1750 today or other lottery winners subsidizing the senior prices. These policies drive fans to try to win multiple shows which blocks out even more fans. The senior fans get it?

They could eliminate seniority tomorrow and your chances of getting a great seat go up a fraction of a percent. Hell, the influx of ticket requests might even make it go down.

I know some people only daydream about the scenarios where the great tickets are handed to them specifically but the reality is your odds would most likely get way worse if they blow up this system.

Hey don't trust me, just go talk to somebody who's into music maybe pop music, maybe a little bit of rock and roll but someone who doesn't know you at all, and knows  Pearl Jam a little but not outside the two or three songs they may have heard on the radio.

Tell them about the cheapest New York ticket right now unobstructed view is a thousand bucks.

Tell them now the cheapest Philadelphia tickets over 500 bucks. Tell them the cheapest Baltimore ticket is $700 now. They'll look at you like you're crazy. I know because I've gotten those looks. Trust me I've had these conversations with people, no one outside the community understands this unique ticketing problem that is unique to Pearl jam.

Secondly, on the advice of not trusting me, go over to the Europe thread and look at how they are screaming about thousands of unsold tickets to many venues because prices are too high but 85% lower than the east coast 

There's a reason why they're having trouble selling tickets in europe compared to the East USA.

Because historically, at least for the last 10 years there has been minimal seniority reward because Pearl Jam pretty much plays festivals out there. There is none of this manufactured Demand by seniors buying 5 or 10 tickets with a guaranteed $800 discount off market value per ticket, saving multiple thousands of dollars per tour off of Market rates ,per tour happening in Europe like it does on the east coast of the United States. We have a real world test of my theory right here on page one of the porch

So there's two factors above independent from what I'm saying this is a very unique problem to Pearl Jam and a very unique problem to the East Coast of United States.

And it's very different for Pearl Jam concerts than every other band out there and even different from Pearl Jam concerts overseas. The Stones have better broker and platinum prices. Let that sink in.

I'm not even really sure what point you're trying to make aside from collecting grievances

plus, we never got answers as to why so many pulled off three and four wins on the east coast dates. Looking at those “market rates” on TM, that is seemingly 5000 or 10000 to one odds. Oh well. Paying customers don’t deserve answers as to how the lack of priority impacted a supposed random draw that they pay money for.

We have an answer, you just don't like it. Random numbers were drawn and sold the ticket package they'd selected. Some people got all the East Coast shows because their numbers were picked earlier.

I generally don’t agree with Lerxst on much, but he has a valid point on priority.  If someone has NYC as their number one priority they definitely had worse odds in this draw (# avail tix/everyone who wanted MSG at all) than they would have had with the ability to rank (# avail tix/everyone who ranked MSG top priority).  And it was not disclosed at the last renewal date for most 10c members that priority would be going away.  Most people wouldn’t make that a deal breaker for rejoining year to year, but if some people would, they have a point.  

I guess you don’t see Black as incredibly ingenious song then? /s


The priority ranking is a big deal. Also, we are paying to be in this club, and they tell us very little about what most of us are paying for…how is this lottery conducted. It’s curious to charge $1750 and up for msg tickets, prices I don’t see for any other artist, and then claim it’s reasonable odds for a club member to win three or four east coast shows. These facts don’t add up.

as far as how their sweet ticket deals drive demand and limit supply, ignoring the economics supply v demand, I’ll point to the Euro Desaster topic. Legacy tickets are not as much an issue there bc the tour history there is mostly festivals, so there is less incentive to hold onto that membership, and it’s clear demand for PJ arena/stadium Euro shows are far less than the east coast, and far less than anyone expected.

For the millionth time, it makes perfect sense for someone to win 4 shows in a random lottery. Look up the bell curve.

It makes even more sense when you realize how this lottery worked, but some people don't want to see that, because then they can't rail about how "improbable" it is or being "kept in the dark".

RatherStarved

I know in the past I never put MSG first as I didn’t want to waste my top pick on something with low odds.  This time I absolutely rolled the dice on MSG.  I’m sure I’m not alone.  For people where MSG is truly their most important show and would have put it first in the priority system they had to compete with me in the pool in the new system and they wouldn’t have before.  

Get_Right

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

The odds were always less than 15%. So I think we have about the same chance of winning the lottery. Priority just gave you more information to talk about, it did not increase the likelihood of getting tickets. And no doubt, there are flippers and scalpers in the 10C.

PJNB

Get_Right said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

The odds were always less than 15%. So I think we have about the same chance of winning the lottery. Priority just gave you more information to talk about, it did not increase the likelihood of getting tickets. And no doubt, there are flippers and scalpers in the 10C.

It did though. I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Again just because the odds were low already did not mean priority did not help. Also taking priority out made your odds worse due to people just throwing a hail mary since why not they have nothing to lose. If someone threw a hail mary before it just got rejected since it was not a first pick. 


That 15% you are talking about was always a number shown for general interest of a show and never took priority into account. The true number was always higher than that if you put the show as your first pick. 


Now if they went back to showing the odds with no priority that 15% would in fact be a true number of your chances. MSG would be lower than that though. 

PJNB

RatherStarved said:

I know in the past I never put MSG first as I didn’t want to waste my top pick on something with low odds.  This time I absolutely rolled the dice on MSG.  I’m sure I’m not alone.  For people where MSG is truly their most important show and would have put it first in the priority system they had to compete with me in the pool in the new system and they wouldn’t have before.  

That is what this lottery has turned into with no priority. People that are flexible and have an income that can hold a bunch of tickets until Fan to Fan opens put in for anything and everything and work it out later.

I do not fault them for this as it is the system 10C has come up with but imo it is a terrible system to have after so many years having a decent one in place. 

mpedone

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

The odds were always less than 15%. So I think we have about the same chance of winning the lottery. Priority just gave you more information to talk about, it did not increase the likelihood of getting tickets. And no doubt, there are flippers and scalpers in the 10C.

It did though. I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Again just because the odds were low already did not mean priority did not help. Also taking priority out made your odds worse due to people just throwing a hail mary since why not they have nothing to lose. If someone threw a hail mary before it just got rejected since it was not a first pick. 


That 15% you are talking about was always a number shown for general interest of a show and never took priority into account. The true number was always higher than that if you put the show as your first pick. 


Now if they went back to showing the odds with no priority that 15% would in fact be a true number of your chances. MSG would be lower than that though. 

It's not quite a binary situation, though, is it? If your top choice is a much lower demand show, why not put MSG as #1? It's not apples-to-apples, but thinking back to the 2018 shows, where Fenway 2 was a 99% chance (and Night 1 wasn't much lower), if I'd really wanted to go to one of the other shows (with much worse odds), I wouldn't have had to put either Fenway as my #1. Further, given the laws, if I'm looking at going to MSG and Philly or somewhere in the northeast outside of NY and CT, MSG is going to be my #1, even if it's not the closest/easiest to get to, because those other shows will likely have F2F tickets, as opposed to the free-for-all secondary market of NY.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Priority was better than "request packages"; there's just a little more to it than what you're stating.

PJNB

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

The odds were always less than 15%. So I think we have about the same chance of winning the lottery. Priority just gave you more information to talk about, it did not increase the likelihood of getting tickets. And no doubt, there are flippers and scalpers in the 10C.

It did though. I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Again just because the odds were low already did not mean priority did not help. Also taking priority out made your odds worse due to people just throwing a hail mary since why not they have nothing to lose. If someone threw a hail mary before it just got rejected since it was not a first pick. 


That 15% you are talking about was always a number shown for general interest of a show and never took priority into account. The true number was always higher than that if you put the show as your first pick. 


Now if they went back to showing the odds with no priority that 15% would in fact be a true number of your chances. MSG would be lower than that though. 

It's not quite a binary situation, though, is it? If your top choice is a much lower demand show, why not put MSG as #1? It's not apples-to-apples, but thinking back to the 2018 shows, where Fenway 2 was a 99% chance (and Night 1 wasn't much lower), if I'd really wanted to go to one of the other shows (with much worse odds), I wouldn't have had to put either Fenway as my #1. Further, given the laws, if I'm looking at going to MSG and Philly or somewhere in the northeast outside of NY and CT, MSG is going to be my #1, even if it's not the closest/easiest to get to, because those other shows will likely have F2F tickets, as opposed to the free-for-all secondary market of NY.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Priority was better than "request packages"; there's just a little more to it than what you're stating.

I could write paragraphs on it for sure. It is as simple as it gets though. Priority made MSG tickets easier. You can not argue that. 

Obviously if priority and odds were in place people would use those odds as a way to put their shows in an order that would give them the best chance of getting as many tickets as they wanted. 

Now though someone who has no intentions of going to MSG but really wants other shows that are also in demand has an equal chance with the person that only wants to put in for MSG. 

Using Fenway in 2018 is not the best comparison either since they had so many tickets that year. 

Compare someone that wants Seattle, Philly or Baltimore. Also factor in they really want GA for those shows and they do not want to go to MSG. They now are making the only MSG peoples odds even harder. 

mpedone

PJNB said:

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

The odds were always less than 15%. So I think we have about the same chance of winning the lottery. Priority just gave you more information to talk about, it did not increase the likelihood of getting tickets. And no doubt, there are flippers and scalpers in the 10C.

It did though. I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Again just because the odds were low already did not mean priority did not help. Also taking priority out made your odds worse due to people just throwing a hail mary since why not they have nothing to lose. If someone threw a hail mary before it just got rejected since it was not a first pick. 


That 15% you are talking about was always a number shown for general interest of a show and never took priority into account. The true number was always higher than that if you put the show as your first pick. 


Now if they went back to showing the odds with no priority that 15% would in fact be a true number of your chances. MSG would be lower than that though. 

It's not quite a binary situation, though, is it? If your top choice is a much lower demand show, why not put MSG as #1? It's not apples-to-apples, but thinking back to the 2018 shows, where Fenway 2 was a 99% chance (and Night 1 wasn't much lower), if I'd really wanted to go to one of the other shows (with much worse odds), I wouldn't have had to put either Fenway as my #1. Further, given the laws, if I'm looking at going to MSG and Philly or somewhere in the northeast outside of NY and CT, MSG is going to be my #1, even if it's not the closest/easiest to get to, because those other shows will likely have F2F tickets, as opposed to the free-for-all secondary market of NY.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Priority was better than "request packages"; there's just a little more to it than what you're stating.

I could write paragraphs on it for sure. It is as simple as it gets though. Priority made MSG tickets easier. You can not argue that. 

Obviously if priority and odds were in place people would use those odds as a way to put their shows in an order that would give them the best chance of getting as many tickets as they wanted. 

Now though someone who has no intentions of going to MSG but really wants other shows that are also in demand has an equal chance with the person that only wants to put in for MSG. 

Using Fenway in 2018 is not the best comparison either since they had so many tickets that year. 

Compare someone that wants Seattle, Philly or Baltimore. Also factor in they really want GA for those shows and they do not want to go to MSG. They now are making the only MSG peoples odds even harder. 

The x-factor is transferability, though. Because MSG tickets can be resold for any price, if there was even a 1% chance that I wanted to go to MSG, I would put it as my #1 priority. I can always sell those tickets if I decide not to go, and Philly and Baltimore will have more reasonably-priced F2F tickets. If I put MSG as my #4 priority, and then decide I want to go, I'm stuck hoping that someone will offload tickets at a reasonable price. I would put MSG as my #1 and take my chances. I think a lot of other people did the same thing.

On top of that, the less scrupulous in the club will put MSG as their #1 just so they can flip the tickets. They may not even put in for other shows.

Were your odds worse without priority? Yup, no doubt. Did the package method drop them even further? Definitely. I'm just saying it's not as cut-and-dried as "With priority, only people who REALLY wanted to go to MSG would put it as their #1."

PJNB

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

PJNB said:

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

Of course priority helped get MSG tickets. Just because odds are already low does not mean priority did not make it easier. 


Tons of people put in for MSG just as trade bait or to flip for a profit. 

If priority was a thing they would of had to make a choice with putting in for the actual show/shows they wanted to go to or get MSG as a first pick. 

The odds were always less than 15%. So I think we have about the same chance of winning the lottery. Priority just gave you more information to talk about, it did not increase the likelihood of getting tickets. And no doubt, there are flippers and scalpers in the 10C.

It did though. I am not even sure what you are trying to say here. Again just because the odds were low already did not mean priority did not help. Also taking priority out made your odds worse due to people just throwing a hail mary since why not they have nothing to lose. If someone threw a hail mary before it just got rejected since it was not a first pick. 


That 15% you are talking about was always a number shown for general interest of a show and never took priority into account. The true number was always higher than that if you put the show as your first pick. 


Now if they went back to showing the odds with no priority that 15% would in fact be a true number of your chances. MSG would be lower than that though. 

It's not quite a binary situation, though, is it? If your top choice is a much lower demand show, why not put MSG as #1? It's not apples-to-apples, but thinking back to the 2018 shows, where Fenway 2 was a 99% chance (and Night 1 wasn't much lower), if I'd really wanted to go to one of the other shows (with much worse odds), I wouldn't have had to put either Fenway as my #1. Further, given the laws, if I'm looking at going to MSG and Philly or somewhere in the northeast outside of NY and CT, MSG is going to be my #1, even if it's not the closest/easiest to get to, because those other shows will likely have F2F tickets, as opposed to the free-for-all secondary market of NY.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Priority was better than "request packages"; there's just a little more to it than what you're stating.

I could write paragraphs on it for sure. It is as simple as it gets though. Priority made MSG tickets easier. You can not argue that. 

Obviously if priority and odds were in place people would use those odds as a way to put their shows in an order that would give them the best chance of getting as many tickets as they wanted. 

Now though someone who has no intentions of going to MSG but really wants other shows that are also in demand has an equal chance with the person that only wants to put in for MSG. 

Using Fenway in 2018 is not the best comparison either since they had so many tickets that year. 

Compare someone that wants Seattle, Philly or Baltimore. Also factor in they really want GA for those shows and they do not want to go to MSG. They now are making the only MSG peoples odds even harder. 

The x-factor is transferability, though. Because MSG tickets can be resold for any price, if there was even a 1% chance that I wanted to go to MSG, I would put it as my #1 priority. I can always sell those tickets if I decide not to go, and Philly and Baltimore will have more reasonably-priced F2F tickets. If I put MSG as my #4 priority, and then decide I want to go, I'm stuck hoping that someone will offload tickets at a reasonable price. I would put MSG as my #1 and take my chances. I think a lot of other people did the same thing.

On top of that, the less scrupulous in the club will put MSG as their #1 just so they can flip the tickets. They may not even put in for other shows.

Were your odds worse without priority? Yup, no doubt. Did the package method drop them even further? Definitely. I'm just saying it's not as cut-and-dried as "With priority, only people who REALLY wanted to go to MSG would put it as their #1."

Really wanting to go VS not wanting to go at all and just use as trade or flip for a profit is what I am saying.

 I agree with your points with fan to fan. I wonder though how many out there actually factor in fan to fan and harder shows vs just buying on the secondary market. Sure people here are crazy enough to spend hours on fan to fan a day but others are just as happy to buy for a jacked up price and save their time. 

cincybearcat

I'm not going to feel bad for winning tickets to MSG.  I never would have made it my #1 priority (and never had in the past).  But I won GA and I'll be there.  

Though I would be 100% fine with 10C going back to priority.  Heck, my #1 priority this year would have been Wrigley2...and I lost in that lottery, no tickets.   I hate the idea some come up with regarding "home shows"....letting people who live close have the best shot.  That was fine when they toured like in 2003....but not now.

How they run the lottery certainly changes the shows I pick.  But it's always cause I am going to go to the shows, or at least plan on it when I enter.  Sometimes I pick a place i suspect has lower interest just to get tickets.  Almost did that this year, but decided against it.  Mostly cause with like 40,000 seats I wrongly thought Wrigley was a guarantee for me.  See ya in NYC.

smile6680

JimmyV said:

"NYC. More trouble than it's worth." - anonymous Masshole 

I agree. Fenway isn't worth the trouble either. -Just a guy from Maine

smile6680

Get_Right said:

They outsourced the fan club years ago. They sold dog collars. Now they just want to sell tickets as quickly and as easily as possible. Priority never helped get MSG tix. The MSG odds have always been low.

I don't know if this is true or not. I do believe there is a major disconnect between the ten club/band and their fans. I see all the excuses from fans defending them on this board but, the fact is they no longer seem to communicate or care anymore.

For the record it's fine with me. They can charge what they want and become more and more disconnected with the fan base if they choose. They are getting older and probably don't want to be bothered with this stuff anymore. 

Tim Simmons

I always love how Dog collars was the fucking line for merch. Not 12 shirts a tour, or a poster or 3 per show. It’s such a dumb innocuous thing. 

Get_Right

So if I get tickets to MSG without the priority does that mean the lottery is better? Priority never worked for me. The lottery has. I guess that is personal and I get it.  I have more success without priority so that may be selfish, but it's true. 

Zod

Get_Right said:

So if I get tickets to MSG without the priority does that mean the lottery is better? Priority never worked for me. The lottery has. I guess that is personal and I get it.  I have more success without priority so that may be selfish, but it's true. 

It depends.   If your hell bent on going to one specific show in one specific place, then your odds should be higher with priority, because people who got tickets to other shows as their priority can't win them over you.   New York shows are so popular, I think it's always going to be a hard get due to how many people live in the area.  Kind of skews how people view their outcomes.

I do wonder why they don't do a bigger venue in New York.  MSG doesn't seem near big enough given the population surrounding the new york area.

smile6680

Have prices dropped for the European shows yet? I'm curious how ticket sales are doing now.

RatherStarved

smile6680 said:

Have prices dropped for the European shows yet? I'm curious how ticket sales are doing now.

There have been some price reductions for some high up seats in Berlin and London.  

chrisdrake88

Zen23 said:

Small translation service on my part. The most important passages. Although the title "My ticket, my ruin" and the caption under Mr. Vedder's photo say it all.

"It is first and foremost the artists who determine with their management what income they expect from a tour." Eddie Vedder.

Other interesting points:

With Pearl Jam, however, you have to bear in mind that some of the fans traditionally travel after the band and so have to buy tickets for several concerts. The fan club offers limited special prices for this, but even these are now too expensive for many. Some fans have therefore announced that after decades they will break with the traveling around. They simply couldn't afford it anymore.

"Pearl Jam, you've completely lost your way," wrote British user Chris-Drake88 in a much-noticed post on the official fan club forum. "Unlike before, you are no longer a band of the people." You can find that overly self-pitying, but the question has not been chewed over yet. If even Pearl Jam, who peddle their commitment to inclusive prices and don't offer flying disco horses or LED show stairs, charge over 170 euros for the bad seats - is that really just down to the system? Or what else?

There are no answers from the companies that have organized the group's tours now and in the past. Inquiries as to how the prices were arrived at, whether there is a dynamic pricing principle in Germany (as in the USA) and how ticket companies, promoters and artists divide up the proceeds are rejected or ignored.

Johannes Everke, Managing Director of the Federal Association of the Concert and Event Industry: "It would also be wrong to blame the ticket retailers. First and foremost, it is the artists and their management who determine what revenue they expect from a tour. What the individual tickets cost is then determined by what the organizers and artists agree on in view of the overall costs." This means that Pearl Jam also cross-finance the 200-euro seats in Berlin to a certain extent with the tickets, which the algorithm in the USA sometimes pushes up to over 1000 dollars.

Wow! I had no idea about this! Thanks for the translation. I'm finding it a bit crazy how noticed my little rant has been!

Has anybody noticed that some of the 1000s of unsold seats at Tottenham have been reduced in price over the last few weeks? It's great to know that we have a bit of power when we actually stand up and refuse to be overcharged.  Notably, the reduced tickets are still not selling out, so I wonder if they'll end up dropping prices further to sell out the stadium? I hate the idea of PJ playing to empty seats, I'd still love to see them live this year, and if they can work it out, I would 100% love to be there.