I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
Yeah we are going to try to push more customers to ACH. It costs us $3 per ACH transaction and 2.9% of a credit card transaction. So as long as the customer is paying more than $100 we're good. We have few invoices less than that anyway.
We have one client with multiple entities who pays us about $10K/year....cost me $300 to accept that payment via credit card. Definitely bullshit.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
Yeah we are going to try to push more customers to ACH. It costs us $3 per ACH transaction and 2.9% of a credit card transaction. So as long as the customer is paying more than $100 we're good. We have few invoices less than that anyway.
We have one client with multiple entities who pays us about $10K/year....cost me $300 to accept that payment via credit card. Definitely bullshit.
Yeah, we have a 6 figure / year customer who insists on paying by CC.. that 's money out of our pocket.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
It’s the norm around me for restaurants. We thought about doing it but in my business a lot of sales are hundreds of dollars and people use business card to track expenses so it’s a little different. We’ve been able to negotiate a rate with our processing company a little under 3%. It’s the cost of doing business but who knows.. all it takes is a few other paint stores in and around us to start doing it and then it’ll be a little more realistic to start implementing it.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,802
Still have some places that won't take AmEx. I get it, they pay an extra point to AmEx vs Mc/Visa
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
I always thought that fee was a lazy way to get more money? I know cards charge 3-4%, but I thought most places would find that worth it. Checks you have to worry about them bouncing, and you have to take time cashing them. With cash you have to worry about settling your drawers every night and depositing it all, hoping your employees can do basic math and give correct change, and maintaining enough for change in sales, etc. The 3% seems like a small fee to not have to worry about any of that.
I see a "convenience" fee of a few bucks when I pay bills online (like renewing my registration at the DMV), even when it's an online check which I don't think has any fees. Just another way to nickel and dime you, because I know they'd rather have the instant electronic deposit than worry about me mailing in a check and having an employe take the time to deposit it, its more convenient on them, but I'm charged the fee.
More often than not when I pay in cash and the total is $19.05 and I give the cashier a $20 bill and a nickel, they look so confused, give me the nickel back, then count out 95 cents in change. Then I hand them all the change and as for a $1 bill.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
I always thought that fee was a lazy way to get more money? I know cards charge 3-4%, but I thought most places would find that worth it. Checks you have to worry about them bouncing, and you have to take time cashing them. With cash you have to worry about settling your drawers every night and depositing it all, hoping your employees can do basic math and give correct change, and maintaining enough for change in sales, etc. The 3% seems like a small fee to not have to worry about any of that.
More often than not when I pay in cash and the total is $19.05 and I give the cashier a $20 bill and a nickel, they look so confused, give me the nickel back, then count out 95 cents in change. Then I hand them all the change and as for a $1 bill.
We don't do cash, so that's not a factor.
We accept credit cards from smaller customers, and those who don't have good enough credit to get terms, but when we're giving a max discount on our product to a customer who also gets PPD freight almost 3K miles away, that 3% fee hurts us, especially when we're talking about a 6 figure / year customer.... our margin really is that thin, & in the end It's money out of our pocket.
We really want to get people doing ACH over anything else, but yeah... we would still rather get checks over credit cards. Someone makes a daily run to the post office & bank, & likes getting out of the office so that's not really a problem either.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
There are quite a few businesses where I live that have signs letting customers know that the cash price will be 3.5% lower than if you use a card and then ask you which you would prefer.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
There are quite a few businesses where I live that have signs letting customers know that the cash price will be 3.5% lower than if you use a card and then ask you which you would prefer.
Gas stations around me have cash prices and credit card prices... you pay about $0.10 more per gallon for the latter.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
There are quite a few businesses where I live that have signs letting customers know that the cash price will be 3.5% lower than if you use a card and then ask you which you would prefer.
Gas stations around me have cash prices and credit card prices... you pay about $0.10 more per gallon for the latter.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
There are quite a few businesses where I live that have signs letting customers know that the cash price will be 3.5% lower than if you use a card and then ask you which you would prefer.
Gas stations around me have cash prices and credit card prices... you pay about $0.10 more per gallon for the latter.
It varies in Southern Illinois, I have seen some stations with a difference and some that are the same price.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
There are quite a few businesses where I live that have signs letting customers know that the cash price will be 3.5% lower than if you use a card and then ask you which you would prefer.
Gas stations around me have cash prices and credit card prices... you pay about $0.10 more per gallon for the latter.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
There are quite a few businesses where I live that have signs letting customers know that the cash price will be 3.5% lower than if you use a card and then ask you which you would prefer.
I used to see that more in California, don't see that much here. But I would deposit a $20, enough to get me through the next 2-3 days, then fill up somewhere that didn't charge me more. The other gas station made more by not charging me the 10 cents a gallon.
What would happen if you didn't tip? Would you be frowned upon? Seems like a lot of extra expenses on top of already expensive things.
more than frowned upon, a restaurant will almost see it as skipping out on part of the bill unless you justify it. If I've had horrible service, I'll tip maybe $1 just to show I didn't forget to add it. That is rare, can only think of twice where that has happened. One time I did actually just forget, and the manager followed me out into the parking lot to ask me why I didn't tip. I felt so bad, and stupid. But his demeanor was more irritated with me like I was skipping out, more than asking what was wrong with the service. He was sort of right, but it was an accident.
that is unbelievable to me. he followed you out of the restaurant to ask why you didn't tip? beyond fucking rude. a tip is optional, not an obligation.
why on earth would you have to justify it? that's absurd. the culture in the US is even more entitled than it is here. wow.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
I always thought that fee was a lazy way to get more money? I know cards charge 3-4%, but I thought most places would find that worth it. Checks you have to worry about them bouncing, and you have to take time cashing them. With cash you have to worry about settling your drawers every night and depositing it all, hoping your employees can do basic math and give correct change, and maintaining enough for change in sales, etc. The 3% seems like a small fee to not have to worry about any of that.
More often than not when I pay in cash and the total is $19.05 and I give the cashier a $20 bill and a nickel, they look so confused, give me the nickel back, then count out 95 cents in change. Then I hand them all the change and as for a $1 bill.
We don't do cash, so that's not a factor.
We accept credit cards from smaller customers, and those who don't have good enough credit to get terms, but when we're giving a max discount on our product to a customer who also gets PPD freight almost 3K miles away, that 3% fee hurts us, especially when we're talking about a 6 figure / year customer.... our margin really is that thin, & in the end It's money out of our pocket.
We really want to get people doing ACH over anything else, but yeah... we would still rather get checks over credit cards. Someone makes a daily run to the post office & bank, & likes getting out of the office so that's not really a problem either.
I don't know what kind of manufacturing you do, but if your orders are in the thousands of $$, makes sense to not do cash. No one wants to carry about 10k of cash to make an order. But if an average store where I shopped didn't take cash, but then charged me 4% for a card, I'd be pissed. Either accept cash or eat the card fee. Don't not do either.
I've only ever seen a fee for $0.25 or maybe now a buck for interac fees at a very small business. if a business doesn't like the cc fees, they just don't accept them.
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
I always thought that fee was a lazy way to get more money? I know cards charge 3-4%, but I thought most places would find that worth it. Checks you have to worry about them bouncing, and you have to take time cashing them. With cash you have to worry about settling your drawers every night and depositing it all, hoping your employees can do basic math and give correct change, and maintaining enough for change in sales, etc. The 3% seems like a small fee to not have to worry about any of that.
More often than not when I pay in cash and the total is $19.05 and I give the cashier a $20 bill and a nickel, they look so confused, give me the nickel back, then count out 95 cents in change. Then I hand them all the change and as for a $1 bill.
We don't do cash, so that's not a factor.
We accept credit cards from smaller customers, and those who don't have good enough credit to get terms, but when we're giving a max discount on our product to a customer who also gets PPD freight almost 3K miles away, that 3% fee hurts us, especially when we're talking about a 6 figure / year customer.... our margin really is that thin, & in the end It's money out of our pocket.
We really want to get people doing ACH over anything else, but yeah... we would still rather get checks over credit cards. Someone makes a daily run to the post office & bank, & likes getting out of the office so that's not really a problem either.
I don't know what kind of manufacturing you do, but if your orders are in the thousands of $$, makes sense to not do cash. No one wants to carry about 10k of cash to make an order. But if an average store where I shopped didn't take cash, but then charged me 4% for a card, I'd be pissed. Either accept cash or eat the card fee. Don't not do either.
We don't sell to end users, we sell to distributors / stores.
What would happen if you didn't tip? Would you be frowned upon? Seems like a lot of extra expenses on top of already expensive things.
more than frowned upon, a restaurant will almost see it as skipping out on part of the bill unless you justify it. If I've had horrible service, I'll tip maybe $1 just to show I didn't forget to add it. That is rare, can only think of twice where that has happened. One time I did actually just forget, and the manager followed me out into the parking lot to ask me why I didn't tip. I felt so bad, and stupid. But his demeanor was more irritated with me like I was skipping out, more than asking what was wrong with the service. He was sort of right, but it was an accident.
that is unbelievable to me. he followed you out of the restaurant to ask why you didn't tip? beyond fucking rude. a tip is optional, not an obligation.
why on earth would you have to justify it? that's absurd. the culture in the US is even more entitled than it is here. wow.
Hugh, it's not a culture of entitlement... servers make jack shit (WELL below minimum wage)... their livelihood depends on tipping.
They should be paid a livable wage from the get go, it's a very dumb system.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,802
That isn't how it works, here. You don't accept cc, you don't have a viable business. Goods cost more, they just need to raise prices jn accordance and let the shoppers know why they need to do so. The idea that small business owners should eat the increases and not try to find ways to remain profitable makes no sense to me. (Frequently, it appears they are trying not to raise the prices of goods and eat some of those...and find a way to offset the pay card industry fees they are accustomed to paying. )
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,802
I hate when restaurants add 4% to your bill when you use your check or credit card to cover their fees.
That is becoming much more common. Probably going to be the norm soon.
I work for a manufacturer and we're asking our customers to switch over to paying by check or ACH so we don't have to start implementing a credit card service fee.
I always thought that fee was a lazy way to get more money? I know cards charge 3-4%, but I thought most places would find that worth it. Checks you have to worry about them bouncing, and you have to take time cashing them. With cash you have to worry about settling your drawers every night and depositing it all, hoping your employees can do basic math and give correct change, and maintaining enough for change in sales, etc. The 3% seems like a small fee to not have to worry about any of that.
More often than not when I pay in cash and the total is $19.05 and I give the cashier a $20 bill and a nickel, they look so confused, give me the nickel back, then count out 95 cents in change. Then I hand them all the change and as for a $1 bill.
We don't do cash, so that's not a factor.
We accept credit cards from smaller customers, and those who don't have good enough credit to get terms, but when we're giving a max discount on our product to a customer who also gets PPD freight almost 3K miles away, that 3% fee hurts us, especially when we're talking about a 6 figure / year customer.... our margin really is that thin, & in the end It's money out of our pocket.
We really want to get people doing ACH over anything else, but yeah... we would still rather get checks over credit cards. Someone makes a daily run to the post office & bank, & likes getting out of the office so that's not really a problem either.
I don't know what kind of manufacturing you do, but if your orders are in the thousands of $$, makes sense to not do cash. No one wants to carry about 10k of cash to make an order. But if an average store where I shopped didn't take cash, but then charged me 4% for a card, I'd be pissed. Either accept cash or eat the card fee. Don't not do either.
We don't sell to end users, we sell to distributors / stores.
What would happen if you didn't tip? Would you be frowned upon? Seems like a lot of extra expenses on top of already expensive things.
more than frowned upon, a restaurant will almost see it as skipping out on part of the bill unless you justify it. If I've had horrible service, I'll tip maybe $1 just to show I didn't forget to add it. That is rare, can only think of twice where that has happened. One time I did actually just forget, and the manager followed me out into the parking lot to ask me why I didn't tip. I felt so bad, and stupid. But his demeanor was more irritated with me like I was skipping out, more than asking what was wrong with the service. He was sort of right, but it was an accident.
that is unbelievable to me. he followed you out of the restaurant to ask why you didn't tip? beyond fucking rude. a tip is optional, not an obligation.
why on earth would you have to justify it? that's absurd. the culture in the US is even more entitled than it is here. wow.
Hugh, it's not a culture of entitlement... servers make jack shit (WELL below minimum wage)... their livelihood depends on tipping.
They should be paid a livable wage from the get go, it's a very dumb system.
Agree. They need tips, in states where they don't pay the servers a living wage. Argue against that policy....sure....but the workers are in need of that.
What would happen if you didn't tip? Would you be frowned upon? Seems like a lot of extra expenses on top of already expensive things.
more than frowned upon, a restaurant will almost see it as skipping out on part of the bill unless you justify it. If I've had horrible service, I'll tip maybe $1 just to show I didn't forget to add it. That is rare, can only think of twice where that has happened. One time I did actually just forget, and the manager followed me out into the parking lot to ask me why I didn't tip. I felt so bad, and stupid. But his demeanor was more irritated with me like I was skipping out, more than asking what was wrong with the service. He was sort of right, but it was an accident.
that is unbelievable to me. he followed you out of the restaurant to ask why you didn't tip? beyond fucking rude. a tip is optional, not an obligation.
why on earth would you have to justify it? that's absurd. the culture in the US is even more entitled than it is here. wow.
A tip is expected. It's viewed as skipping out on part of the bill. I would never not tip unless it was blindly obvious why. We were at a restaurant a couple years ago with a small group of friends. After placing our order our server disappeared for 90 minutes. No one would even make eye contact with us. I had to get up, ask for a manager to see what was going on. Apparently the server was brand new and had a nervous break down and walked out, even though it was a slow weeknight and we were currently his only table, and they were waiting for him to calm down and come back. I told the manager to just bring the food herself. She did, but it was cold, like it had been sitting on the counter for an hour and half. We didn't tip. I didn't even want to pay the full bill but my wife's friends insisted we did. But I didn't feel the need to explain why there was no tip. The weird thing was it was a slow night, I don't know why no one just brought us the food and said the other guy was on break. Unless they didn't realize he just left until our food was already cold and no one wanted to deal with it. It was so weird.
They shouldn't call it a tip or gratuity, because it isn't. Call it a cover charge or server fee or something.
Service would have to be really bad for me to leave no tip at all.
Typically if the service sucks, I'll leave only a 5 or 10% tip (& try to pass a remark to the host / hostess / manager on my way out explaining why my tip was as bad as it was).
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,802
What would happen if you didn't tip? Would you be frowned upon? Seems like a lot of extra expenses on top of already expensive things.
more than frowned upon, a restaurant will almost see it as skipping out on part of the bill unless you justify it. If I've had horrible service, I'll tip maybe $1 just to show I didn't forget to add it. That is rare, can only think of twice where that has happened. One time I did actually just forget, and the manager followed me out into the parking lot to ask me why I didn't tip. I felt so bad, and stupid. But his demeanor was more irritated with me like I was skipping out, more than asking what was wrong with the service. He was sort of right, but it was an accident.
that is unbelievable to me. he followed you out of the restaurant to ask why you didn't tip? beyond fucking rude. a tip is optional, not an obligation.
why on earth would you have to justify it? that's absurd. the culture in the US is even more entitled than it is here. wow.
A tip is expected. It's viewed as skipping out on part of the bill. I would never not tip unless it was blindly obvious why. We were at a restaurant a couple years ago with a small group of friends. After placing our order our server disappeared for 90 minutes. No one would even make eye contact with us. I had to get up, ask for a manager to see what was going on. Apparently the server was brand new and had a nervous break down and walked out, even though it was a slow weeknight and we were currently his only table, and they were waiting for him to calm down and come back. I told the manager to just bring the food herself. She did, but it was cold, like it had been sitting on the counter for an hour and half. We didn't tip. I didn't even want to pay the full bill but my wife's friends insisted we did. But I didn't feel the need to explain why there was no tip. The weird thing was it was a slow night, I don't know why no one just brought us the food and said the other guy was on break. Unless they didn't realize he just left until our food was already cold and no one wanted to deal with it. It was so weird.
They shouldn't call it a tip or gratuity, because it isn't. Call it a cover charge or server fee or something.
Yeah, they do call it a Service Fee on the larger parties when automatically added. (At least, where I see it,generally.) The few times I ve not tipped or tipped very low amounts it had to do with awful service as well.
Just remember if you come to the UK. Don't tip save your money things are expensive enough and nobody expects a tip anywhere.
When I was in Italy about 10 years ago, we didn't tip. But some of the restaurants had a cover charge of $3 or $5 a person. That system makes more sense. What I've never understood about our tipping practices is I can go to dinner, order a $10 hamburger and water. My friend can join me at the same table, order a $20 dinner plate and 2 beers. I'm expected to tip $2 and he's going to tip about $8, but we received the exact same service.
restaurants have a 15% gratuity automatically added to the bill of parties of 6 or 8 (depending on place) or more. even that is stupid to me (and many others here). that just invites the ability for the service to suck. if they're already getting a tip, why try? and I've actually come across this many times. I hate going out in big groups. The service, unless it's at a very high end place, generally sucks in big groups.
so yes, I understand that in some states servers make less than minimum wage. Which is beyond absurd. the word minimum means nothing in that context. lol. but the onus to pay someone a living wage shouldn't be on the customer. it should be on the business. labour laws should be changed to reflect this.
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We have one client with multiple entities who pays us about $10K/year....cost me $300 to accept that payment via credit card. Definitely bullshit.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I know cards charge 3-4%, but I thought most places would find that worth it.
Checks you have to worry about them bouncing, and you have to take time cashing them.
With cash you have to worry about settling your drawers every night and depositing it all, hoping your employees can do basic math and give correct change, and maintaining enough for change in sales, etc. The 3% seems like a small fee to not have to worry about any of that.
I see a "convenience" fee of a few bucks when I pay bills online (like renewing my registration at the DMV), even when it's an online check which I don't think has any fees. Just another way to nickel and dime you, because I know they'd rather have the instant electronic deposit than worry about me mailing in a check and having an employe take the time to deposit it, its more convenient on them, but I'm charged the fee.
More often than not when I pay in cash and the total is $19.05 and I give the cashier a $20 bill and a nickel, they look so confused, give me the nickel back, then count out 95 cents in change. Then I hand them all the change and as for a $1 bill.
We accept credit cards from smaller customers, and those who don't have good enough credit to get terms, but when we're giving a max discount on our product to a customer who also gets PPD freight almost 3K miles away, that 3% fee hurts us, especially when we're talking about a 6 figure / year customer.... our margin really is that thin, & in the end It's money out of our pocket.
We really want to get people doing ACH over anything else, but yeah... we would still rather get checks over credit cards. Someone makes a daily run to the post office & bank, & likes getting out of the office so that's not really a problem either.
why on earth would you have to justify it? that's absurd. the culture in the US is even more entitled than it is here. wow.
www.headstonesband.com
But if an average store where I shopped didn't take cash, but then charged me 4% for a card, I'd be pissed. Either accept cash or eat the card fee. Don't not do either.
www.headstonesband.com
Hugh, it's not a culture of entitlement... servers make jack shit (WELL below minimum wage)... their livelihood depends on tipping.
They should be paid a livable wage from the get go, it's a very dumb system.
You don't accept cc, you don't have a viable business.
Goods cost more, they just need to raise prices jn accordance and let the shoppers know why they need to do so.
The idea that small business owners should eat the increases and not try to find ways to remain profitable makes no sense to me. (Frequently, it appears they are trying not to raise the prices of goods and eat some of those...and find a way to offset the pay card industry fees they are accustomed to paying. )
We were at a restaurant a couple years ago with a small group of friends. After placing our order our server disappeared for 90 minutes. No one would even make eye contact with us. I had to get up, ask for a manager to see what was going on. Apparently the server was brand new and had a nervous break down and walked out, even though it was a slow weeknight and we were currently his only table, and they were waiting for him to calm down and come back. I told the manager to just bring the food herself. She did, but it was cold, like it had been sitting on the counter for an hour and half.
We didn't tip. I didn't even want to pay the full bill but my wife's friends insisted we did. But I didn't feel the need to explain why there was no tip.
The weird thing was it was a slow night, I don't know why no one just brought us the food and said the other guy was on break. Unless they didn't realize he just left until our food was already cold and no one wanted to deal with it. It was so weird.
They shouldn't call it a tip or gratuity, because it isn't. Call it a cover charge or server fee or something.
Typically if the service sucks, I'll leave only a 5 or 10% tip (& try to pass a remark to the host / hostess / manager on my way out explaining why my tip was as bad as it was).
The few times I ve not tipped or tipped very low amounts it had to do with awful service as well.
astoria 06
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this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -