Who prepped Biden for this debate? Everyone knew going into that the only goal of this debate was for Biden to not seem old and feeble and that’s exactly how he came across. None of the policy matters at this point so stop getting hung up on the details. I’d still vote for Biden even if it was Weekend at Bernie’s type of situation before ever voting for Trump but my god pull it together. There’s too much at stake.
A vote for Biden seems like a vote for Kamala at this point.
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,401
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/06/factchecking-the-biden-trump-debate/FactChecking the Biden-Trump Debate
In the first debate clash of the 2024 campaign, the two candidates unleashed a flurry of false and misleading statements.
By Robert Farley, Eugene Kiely, D'Angelo Gore, Jessica McDonald, Lori Robertson, Catalina Jaramillo, Saranac Hale Spencer and Alan Jaffe
Posted on June 28, 2024
Summary
The much-anticipated first debate of 2024 between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump featured a relentless barrage of false and misleading statements from the two candidates on immigration, the economy, abortion, taxes and more. Both candidates erred on Social Security, with Biden incorrectly saying that Trump “wants to get rid” of the program, and Trump falsely alleging that Biden will “wipe out” Social Security due to the influx of people at the border. Trump misleadingly claimed that he was “the one that got the insulin down for the seniors,” not Biden. Costs were lowered for some under a limited project by the Trump administration. Biden signed a law capping costs for all seniors with Medicare drug coverage. Trump warned that Biden “wants to raise your taxes by four times,” but Biden has not proposed anything like that. Trump was also mostly wrong when he said Biden “wants the Trump tax cuts to expire.” Biden said he would extend them for anyone making under $400,000 a year. Biden repeated his misleading claim that billionaires pay an average federal tax rate of 8%. That White House calculation factors in earnings on unsold stock as income. Trump repeated his false claim that “everybody,” including all legal scholars, wanted to end Roe v. Wade’s constitutional right to abortion. Trump falsely claimed that “the only jobs” Biden “created are for illegal immigrants and bounced back jobs that bounced back from the COVID.” Total nonfarm employment is higher than it was before the pandemic, as is the employment level of native-born workers. Biden claimed that Trump oversaw the “largest deficit of any president,” while Trump countered that “we now have the largest deficit” under Biden. The largest budget deficit was under Trump in fiscal year 2020, but that was largely because of emergency spending due to COVID-19. Biden misleadingly said that “Black unemployment is the lowest level it has been in a long, long time.” The rate reached a record low in April 2023, and it was low under Trump, too, until the pandemic. Biden said Trump called U.S. veterans killed in World War I “suckers and losers,” which Trump called a “made up quote.” The Atlantic reported that, based on anonymous sources. A former Trump chief of staff later seemed to confirm Trump said it. Trump claimed that Biden “caused the inflation,” but economists say rising inflation was mostly due to disruptions to the economy caused by the pandemic. Trump grossly inflated the number of immigrants who have entered the country during the Biden administration — putting the number at 18 million to 20 million — and he said, without evidence, that many of them are from prisons and mental institutions. Trump claimed that “we had the safest border in history” in the “final months” of his presidency. But apprehensions of those trying to cross illegally in the last three full months of his presidency were about 50% higher than in the three months before he took office. Biden criticized Trump for presiding over a loss of jobs when he was president, but that loss occurred because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Trump falsely claimed that “some states” run by Democrats allow abortions “after birth.” If it happened, it would be homicide, and that’s illegal. Trump made the unsupported claim that the U.S. border with Mexico is “the most dangerous place in the world,” and suggested that it has opened the country to a violent crime wave. The data show a reduction in violent crime in the U.S.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Who prepped Biden for this debate? Everyone knew going into that the only goal of this debate was for Biden to not seem old and feeble and that’s exactly how he came across. None of the policy matters at this point so stop getting hung up on the details. I’d still vote for Biden even if it was Weekend at Bernie’s type of situation before ever voting for Trump but my god pull it together. There’s too much at stake.
I'm confident 70% of america feels the other way. There is way to much at stake to allow this senile decrepit bumbling old man lead us for 4 more years. Life was phenomenal 2016 to 2019. Let's get back to that
Phenomenal 😂 I guess you forget Covid happened
Or that Obama was POTUS for one of those 3 years. Anyone remember Foxcon? Infrastructure week? How about healthcare better and cheaper and more beautiful than Obamacare? How about growth in GDP paying for those tax cuts? Phenomenal two years that was.
I mentioned earlier in this thread about being nervous of a Trump victory in 2024....after last night my concern level is up, way up. I hope that the Sept debate happens AND that Biden can appear to be a living human being. He needs it, can wipe this performance away if he can somehow manage it....but do you really think he can?
We have trump who is one of the biggest threats to American democracy in some time...definitely my lifetime...and Biden is the best that can be done to fight it?
And while a debate should be about policy and data, etc....it rarely is. But one liners can stick with people. Biden had so many opportunities...softballs that trump threw up....and he is unable to think clearly on his feet in order to use it to attack. I recall maybe 2x the entire debate. But unfortunately the moment that will stick with me and many other is the rambling, incoherent mumbling, then silence and then Biden say 'we killed medicare'....with trumps reaction of, yup, you killed it, beat it to death. Ugh, it was early in the debate and I never got over it, and I don't think Biden did either.
hippiemom = goodness
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
It's not the content of the debate, it's the appearance and Joe failed that small task of looking competent. Trump never is competent, but to some forcefule bluster and lies is a sufficient replacement for competence. Both suck. So then it comes down to who do I think is a better person that will serve the country and not their own interests; that's a no brainer.
I'm hopeful we can someday get back to having a higher bar for president, but the last 10 years have been rough.
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
It's not the content of the debate, it's the appearance and Joe failed that small task of looking competent. Trump never is competent, but to some forcefule bluster and lies is a sufficient replacement for competence. Both suck. So then it comes down to who do I think is a better person that will serve the country and not their own interests; that's a no brainer.
I'm hopeful we can someday get back to having a higher bar for president, but the last 10 years have been rough.
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
You or I would've faired better than Biden. Trump was awful too. He maybe answered one or two questions and lied about literally everything.
A competent person in Biden's place would have easily been able to refute, laugh off, and retort back his nonsense.
But Trump's nonsensical ramblings seemed to always divert Biden's responses and he would then respond to the nonsense instead of saying something to the camera like "folks, did any of that make sense to you? Yeah, me neither. Look, the question was regarding his 10% tariff bullshit....the reason he doesn't want to answer is because he knows that will be like injecting our current 3% inflation rate with steroids......." He never once did something like this. Trump tee'd him up perfectly with a Jan 6 question and an abortion question---things Biden should have absolutely owned him on and he fumbled away his responses.
Horrific evening. It looked over before Joe even got to his podium. Pains me to say it. I feel bad for the guy.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
Who prepped Biden for this debate? Everyone knew going into that the only goal of this debate was for Biden to not seem old and feeble and that’s exactly how he came across. None of the policy matters at this point so stop getting hung up on the details. I’d still vote for Biden even if it was Weekend at Bernie’s type of situation before ever voting for Trump but my god pull it together. There’s too much at stake.
A vote for Biden seems like a vote for Kamala at this point.
Which is a million times better than a vote for Trump still.
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,781
Who prepped Biden for this debate? Everyone knew going into that the only goal of this debate was for Biden to not seem old and feeble and that’s exactly how he came across. None of the policy matters at this point so stop getting hung up on the details. I’d still vote for Biden even if it was Weekend at Bernie’s type of situation before ever voting for Trump but my god pull it together. There’s too much at stake.
A vote for Biden seems like a vote for Kamala at this point.
Which is a million times better than a vote for Trump still.
+1
Falling down,...not staying down
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,986
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
I think its worth noting that Biden went into this debate with a cold. Some people, ESPECIALLY when they're old, really show it when they are ill (hells bells, you should see what I look like every morning until I've been up for a while and had my morning coffee, lol. Scary. )
Our biggest hope is that there will be another debate and Biden will be in better shape and turn things around.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'm trying to think through the voting cohorts, and in my eyes, any way you slice it is horrible for Democrats.
"I lean Republican..." because of Trump, because I vote Republican, because I won't vote Democrat, because I won't vote Biden. No change in the first two scenarios, solidification of Republican votes in the latter two.
"I'm undecided...." because I lean Republican but can't vote Trump, because I lean Democrat but can't vote Biden, because I don't align with a party's ideals directly. Net win for Trump in the first two scenarios, net win for Trump based on not seeming like he's dying on stage.
For the last group, four years ago I'd have said that Republicans are a splintered group of voters, some voting for the Trump cabal, others for the Republicans. They've all had spine-removal surgery at this point though, and now it's Democrats who are disadvantaged, and Biden's performance is likely to solidify that disadvantage.
"I lean Democrat..." because of Biden, because I vote Democrat, because of traditional Democrat values, because of liberal Democrat values, because I won't vote Republican, because I won't vote Trump. Net loss for Biden if they lean Democrat because of Biden, or because of traditional Democrat values (how could they let him on that stage?), or because of liberal Democrat values. Net neutral for the latter two scenarios.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
Whatever the decision is, it'll be all in or all out on Biden quickly. Time is of the essence.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
Zero chance this happens. Biden was the safe bet to begin with. This is not a party that takes risks, even to save themselves.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,986
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
That would be a smart move, especially leaving Kamala in as VP and not giving here the nomination to run for president. She would not have a chance in hell of beating Trump (and I don't say that as a slam on her. It's just the truth.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
Zero chance this happens. Biden was the safe bet to begin with. This is not a party that takes risks, even to save themselves.
Biden is no longer a safe bet.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
I think its worth noting that Biden went into this debate with a cold. Some people, ESPECIALLY when they're old, really show it when they are ill (hells bells, you should see what I look like every morning until I've been up for a while and had my morning coffee, lol. Scary. )
Our biggest hope is that there will be another debate and Biden will be in better shape and turn things around.
Why didn’t they mention the cold that they now say he has been dealing with for days prior to the debate? Only 3 reasons…1) they are idiots 2) they thought it would look like an excuse and were hoping he would still slay 3) it’s a bullshit after the fact excuse for a corpse like performance
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
The Dems fucked this up royally and may have destroyed the country in the process. No way Biden should have been more than a 1 term President. That should have been the stance since 2020 election. Now they either stay with a guy who has no chance of lasting 4 more years or replacing him 4 months before the general election. What a disaster.
And who is the choice? Harris, Newsom, Buttigieg (my choice), Whitmer? I also saw some mentions that their is a gray area in having a Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidate from the same state so if they choose Newsom they may have to replace Harris as well.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
Zero chance this happens. Biden was the safe bet to begin with. This is not a party that takes risks, even to save themselves.
Odds of it happening are now over 50% in my opinion.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
I think its worth noting that Biden went into this debate with a cold. Some people, ESPECIALLY when they're old, really show it when they are ill (hells bells, you should see what I look like every morning until I've been up for a while and had my morning coffee, lol. Scary. )
Our biggest hope is that there will be another debate and Biden will be in better shape and turn things around.
Why didn’t they mention the cold that they now say he has been dealing with for days prior to the debate? Only 3 reasons…1) they are idiots 2) they thought it would look like an excuse and were hoping he would still slay 3) it’s a bullshit after the fact excuse for a corpse like performance
He looked fine speaking at that event after the debate. It was likely an excuse.
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
I think its worth noting that Biden went into this debate with a cold. Some people, ESPECIALLY when they're old, really show it when they are ill (hells bells, you should see what I look like every morning until I've been up for a while and had my morning coffee, lol. Scary. )
Our biggest hope is that there will be another debate and Biden will be in better shape and turn things around.
Why didn’t they mention the cold that they now say he has been dealing with for days prior to the debate? Only 3 reasons…1) they are idiots 2) they thought it would look like an excuse and were hoping he would still slay 3) it’s a bullshit after the fact excuse for a corpse like performance
He looked fine speaking at that event after the debate. It was likely an excuse.
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
Zero chance this happens. Biden was the safe bet to begin with. This is not a party that takes risks, even to save themselves.
Odds of it happening are now over 50% in my opinion.
I don't think so, barring a diagnosis of Alzheimer's or something physically terminal.
It would make the party look disorganized and desperate. I said in some thread that "If one of these candidates dies tomorrow, his party will win the election." I said that because I don't think anyone outside of the MAGA mob is particular excited at the prospect of either of these guys winning this election. I think the middle would vote for a younger fresher person in a heartbeat. (Though I'm not 100% sure because I don't think Harris would have a shot and who the GOP would bring forth is a wildcard).
That said, having Biden bow out now would, appropriately, be met with the reaction of "you should have done this a year ago; not when he stumbled around after the primaries." Now the party would look every bit the clown-show it is. That all said, he looked so old that it doesn't likely help to keep him in. These debates don't typically matter but they way Joe looked yesterday, Trump may have just won.
It's very frustrating because if Biden would have said sometime in 2022 that it's time to retire I really don't think people would have been hard on him or the party. We get it, the Dems were in a rough spot in 2020 and they went with a name that could get them by the Orange Menace. But he looked old then and it's not getting better. Two years for the party to get a new candidate that's likely 30 years younger than these two guys would have worked wonders for the party and maybe had the non-cult 2/3 feeling a bit better.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,986
I regrettably eat my words, Juggler. I still hold out a tiny glimmer of hope that maybe there's enough time between now and November to erase it, but Biden looked closer to dead than alive so I find it unlikely. This was fucking brutal - enough to make me worried about him not even making it until November.
I think its worth noting that Biden went into this debate with a cold. Some people, ESPECIALLY when they're old, really show it when they are ill (hells bells, you should see what I look like every morning until I've been up for a while and had my morning coffee, lol. Scary. )
Our biggest hope is that there will be another debate and Biden will be in better shape and turn things around.
Why didn’t they mention the cold that they now say he has been dealing with for days prior to the debate? Only 3 reasons…1) they are idiots 2) they thought it would look like an excuse and were hoping he would still slay 3) it’s a bullshit after the fact excuse for a corpse like performance
Yeah, sorry to say you may be right about that. Utterly depressing how fucked up all this is.
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
The Dems fucked this up royally and may have destroyed the country in the process. No way Biden should have been more than a 1 term President. That should have been the stance since 2020 election. Now they either stay with a guy who has no chance of lasting 4 more years or replacing him 4 months before the general election. What a disaster.
And who is the choice? Harris, Newsom, Buttigieg (my choice), Whitmer? I also saw some mentions that their is a gray area in having a Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidate from the same state so if they choose Newsom they may have to replace Harris as well.
Looking at Newsom's letter this morning, it look like he is standing by old Joe. If someone is going to step in other than Biden, it has to happen mighty damn quick, but I'm not sure it would be Newsom. Here's what he said this AM:
Folks, Listen.
I am old fashioned, but on the substance Joe Biden won the debate last night. That is what matters to me.
All this
other talk... it's unhelpful and unnecessary. We aren't going to turn
our backs because of one performance. What kind of party does that?
Don't look
at 30 minutes... look at 3 and a half years of Joe Biden as president.
It's been a master class: 15.6 million jobs created — 8x more than the
last 3 Republican presidents combined; gun safety legislation; lowering
the cost of prescription drugs; an infrastructure package to rebuild
this country.
Joe Biden
has delivered — and we need to deliver for him in this moment. We're
talking about the fate and future of our democracy, this country and the
world. They all need us right now.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Here’s my production. Within the next 4 weeks they announce a new candidate with Kamala still VP. They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
You can't announce a new candidate. Biden would have to drop out and then the delegates decide at the convention.
Here's where Harris would have a huge advantage. Funds raised for Biden-Harris could be accessed by Harris as the top of the ticket. This is not true for everyone else. So she starts with a big cash advantage.
Super -pacs cannot coordinate anyways, so that money could go to the new candidate even if not Harris.
Either way, the committed delegates become un-committed if Biden drops and then we get a convention that will be fascinating. It will be old school.
Comments
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
We have trump who is one of the biggest threats to American democracy in some time...definitely my lifetime...and Biden is the best that can be done to fight it?
And while a debate should be about policy and data, etc....it rarely is. But one liners can stick with people. Biden had so many opportunities...softballs that trump threw up....and he is unable to think clearly on his feet in order to use it to attack. I recall maybe 2x the entire debate. But unfortunately the moment that will stick with me and many other is the rambling, incoherent mumbling, then silence and then Biden say 'we killed medicare'....with trumps reaction of, yup, you killed it, beat it to death. Ugh, it was early in the debate and I never got over it, and I don't think Biden did either.
Absolute nightmare scenario is playing out.
I'm hopeful we can someday get back to having a higher bar for president, but the last 10 years have been rough.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
A competent person in Biden's place would have easily been able to refute, laugh off, and retort back his nonsense.
But Trump's nonsensical ramblings seemed to always divert Biden's responses and he would then respond to the nonsense instead of saying something to the camera like "folks, did any of that make sense to you? Yeah, me neither. Look, the question was regarding his 10% tariff bullshit....the reason he doesn't want to answer is because he knows that will be like injecting our current 3% inflation rate with steroids......." He never once did something like this. Trump tee'd him up perfectly with a Jan 6 question and an abortion question---things Biden should have absolutely owned him on and he fumbled away his responses.
Horrific evening. It looked over before Joe even got to his podium. Pains me to say it. I feel bad for the guy.
"I lean Republican..." because of Trump, because I vote Republican, because I won't vote Democrat, because I won't vote Biden. No change in the first two scenarios, solidification of Republican votes in the latter two.
"I'm undecided...." because I lean Republican but can't vote Trump, because I lean Democrat but can't vote Biden, because I don't align with a party's ideals directly. Net win for Trump in the first two scenarios, net win for Trump based on not seeming like he's dying on stage.
For the last group, four years ago I'd have said that Republicans are a splintered group of voters, some voting for the Trump cabal, others for the Republicans. They've all had spine-removal surgery at this point though, and now it's Democrats who are disadvantaged, and Biden's performance is likely to solidify that disadvantage.
"I lean Democrat..." because of Biden, because I vote Democrat, because of traditional Democrat values, because of liberal Democrat values, because I won't vote Republican, because I won't vote Trump. Net loss for Biden if they lean Democrat because of Biden, or because of traditional Democrat values (how could they let him on that stage?), or because of liberal Democrat values. Net neutral for the latter two scenarios.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
They’ll spend the next couple weeks deciding who it is and convincing Biden to drop out on his own and make it his decision.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
www.headstonesband.com
That would be a smart move, especially leaving Kamala in as VP and not giving here the nomination to run for president. She would not have a chance in hell of beating Trump (and I don't say that as a slam on her. It's just the truth.)
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
And who is the choice? Harris, Newsom, Buttigieg (my choice), Whitmer? I also saw some mentions that their is a gray area in having a Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidate from the same state so if they choose Newsom they may have to replace Harris as well.
It would make the party look disorganized and desperate. I said in some thread that "If one of these candidates dies tomorrow, his party will win the election." I said that because I don't think anyone outside of the MAGA mob is particular excited at the prospect of either of these guys winning this election. I think the middle would vote for a younger fresher person in a heartbeat. (Though I'm not 100% sure because I don't think Harris would have a shot and who the GOP would bring forth is a wildcard).
That said, having Biden bow out now would, appropriately, be met with the reaction of "you should have done this a year ago; not when he stumbled around after the primaries." Now the party would look every bit the clown-show it is. That all said, he looked so old that it doesn't likely help to keep him in. These debates don't typically matter but they way Joe looked yesterday, Trump may have just won.
It's very frustrating because if Biden would have said sometime in 2022 that it's time to retire I really don't think people would have been hard on him or the party. We get it, the Dems were in a rough spot in 2020 and they went with a name that could get them by the Orange Menace. But he looked old then and it's not getting better. Two years for the party to get a new candidate that's likely 30 years younger than these two guys would have worked wonders for the party and maybe had the non-cult 2/3 feeling a bit better.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Looking at Newsom's letter this morning, it look like he is standing by old Joe. If someone is going to step in other than Biden, it has to happen mighty damn quick, but I'm not sure it would be Newsom. Here's what he said this AM:
Folks, Listen.
I am old fashioned, but on the substance Joe Biden won the debate last night. That is what matters to me.
All this other talk... it's unhelpful and unnecessary. We aren't going to turn our backs because of one performance. What kind of party does that?
Don't look at 30 minutes... look at 3 and a half years of Joe Biden as president. It's been a master class: 15.6 million jobs created — 8x more than the last 3 Republican presidents combined; gun safety legislation; lowering the cost of prescription drugs; an infrastructure package to rebuild this country.
Joe Biden has delivered — and we need to deliver for him in this moment. We're talking about the fate and future of our democracy, this country and the world. They all need us right now.
Super -pacs cannot coordinate anyways, so that money could go to the new candidate even if not Harris.
Either way, the committed delegates become un-committed if Biden drops and then we get a convention that will be fascinating. It will be old school.