What’s up with Fresno?

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  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    Before the 2021 PJ Ohana shows, the last California shows were in 2013.

    That could be why they are playing so many California shows on this leg.
  • D-Rod
    D-Rod Hamilton, Ontario Posts: 1,992
    100 Pacer said:
    LaFleur said:
    More GA currently up.  GD I wish I had the testicular fortitude to just say F! this, I'm going to California.  
    YOLO.
    You guys are killing me……I keep telling myself “Oakland is the final show, Oakland is the final show” 
    1996.....Toronto
    2005.....Hamilton
    2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton
    2013.....London, Buffalo
    2014.....Detroit
    2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston  N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1
    2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2
    2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto  
    2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2
    2024.....Las Vegas N1, Las Vegas N2, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Boston N1, Boston N2
    2025.....Raleigh N1, Raleigh N2, Pittsburgh N1, Pittsburgh N2
    2026.....????????????????????????????????????????? 
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,096
    Red Mosqito said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    huntersthompson said:
    I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

    Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

    The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

    For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

    I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

    By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

    Even though I’m very grumpy, it’s important to me to be happy for all the fans that get shows. And to JVs point, this is basically the 2020 tour. But “someone” in management must have known that even in 2020 the msg prices on stub hub were near a grand? Money is a great indication of imbalance with the gig a ton tour. As much as Ed likes to joke they were going to gig a ton, they should have known that their tour routing created a huge imbalance, and the one fix? Add five dates to an already saturated Cali tour, counting 2021? And maybe another for encore 2022? Is this a band in touch with their fans?

    I get that there’s 40 million in CA, but there are far more on the east coast. The DC to Boston corridor has over sixty million in a smaller area.

    Bottom line, it’s brutal for us in the east, and I’m sure Texas and the south as well (and oz is way overdue for some shows!) , where logistically or financially traveling a week and dropping a grand for shows is not realistic. Those TM blue dots for every May date, I don’t think I ever saw one of those on a show for a concert near me, ever. Not once. But hey, enjoy it while it’s there Cali.
    Brutal for you guys in the East? You do realize the band has played a total of 23 shows over the last 10 years between NY, MA, PA, NJ and MD alone. That hardly sounds like a coast that's been starving for shows. 


    I’ll trust your math but we are at 4 arena shows in ten years in NY, and if also counting Global Cit and all those Fenway horrors with no GA (sorry, MLB stadia and concert dynamics don’t mix well) is in no way comparable to the seven show run at one time in CA now which is creating a sea of blue dots on TM, which, I guess needs be said again, have never ever appeared for shows in NYC region. Nor Fenway either. So the market is clearly indicating an imbalance. And single shows like this years MSG shall also not be counted in that “23 of the future” ;)  bc chances at tix for that are a bit absurd for a NY show. I know you know simple counts can be significantly misleading.
  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,940
    edited April 2022
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Red Mosqito said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    huntersthompson said:
    I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

    Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

    The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

    For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

    I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

    By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

    Even though I’m very grumpy, it’s important to me to be happy for all the fans that get shows. And to JVs point, this is basically the 2020 tour. But “someone” in management must have known that even in 2020 the msg prices on stub hub were near a grand? Money is a great indication of imbalance with the gig a ton tour. As much as Ed likes to joke they were going to gig a ton, they should have known that their tour routing created a huge imbalance, and the one fix? Add five dates to an already saturated Cali tour, counting 2021? And maybe another for encore 2022? Is this a band in touch with their fans?

    I get that there’s 40 million in CA, but there are far more on the east coast. The DC to Boston corridor has over sixty million in a smaller area.

    Bottom line, it’s brutal for us in the east, and I’m sure Texas and the south as well (and oz is way overdue for some shows!) , where logistically or financially traveling a week and dropping a grand for shows is not realistic. Those TM blue dots for every May date, I don’t think I ever saw one of those on a show for a concert near me, ever. Not once. But hey, enjoy it while it’s there Cali.
    Brutal for you guys in the East? You do realize the band has played a total of 23 shows over the last 10 years between NY, MA, PA, NJ and MD alone. That hardly sounds like a coast that's been starving for shows. 


    I’ll trust your math but we are at 4 arena shows in ten years in NY, and if also counting Global Cit and all those Fenway horrors with no GA (sorry, MLB stadia and concert dynamics don’t mix well) is in no way comparable to the seven show run at one time in CA now which is creating a sea of blue dots on TM, which, I guess needs be said again, have never ever appeared for shows in NYC region. Nor Fenway either. So the market is clearly indicating an imbalance. And single shows like this years MSG shall also not be counted in that “23 of the future” ;)  bc chances at tix for that are a bit absurd for a NY show. I know you know simple counts can be significantly misleading.
    There hasn't been an arena show in southern California since 2013.  Not one.

    Saying they are playing seven shows in CA is like saying they're playing seven shows in the northeast.  The distance between the Bay Area cities and the SoCal cities is similar to the distance between Boston and Baltimore.  If they played twice in Boston, twice in New York, twice in Philly and once in Baltimore, no one would bat an eye.  With respect to demand, there is a degree of "artificial" (i.e., not local) demand for shows in the northeast because many fans have convinced themselves that shows at Madison Square Garden or in Philly are automatically special or better* than shows in other cities and will travel in numbers to those shows.  You also can't pretend like these upcoming shows are happening in a normal environment.  We are coming out of a two-year pandemic and a period of major social and economic disruption.  Many, many people are still not back to "normal" activity.

    *They aren't.  I am from New York City.  I also lived in Boston for six years.  I now live in L.A.  I've seen them more than 60 times in all of these places (eight times at MSG alone) and everywhere from Spokane to Wisconsin to Maryland.  There have been great shows in the northeast, and there have been "ordinary" shows there.  There have been great shows in CA (the four nights at the Gibson Amphitheatre come to mind) and ordinary ones. 
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • craigraether
    craigraether Posts: 1,655
    Im in for Fresno GA.. regards to the fall shows, we may see just as many open seats and F2F not selling when the shows get closer, Im sure lots of tickets being held to keep demand high. CA shows are too close to play too many games, but we see it happening anyway. SD had nothing when the lottery was over and just a few premiums, now there are tickets all over the arena and not selling quickly - As for Sac and Fresno, ( I will be at both) could be special or could be meh.. well see but these where put up to fill empty holes in the calendar. This whole 2020 postponement has been a cluster from March 16 2020.. 
  • Rocketnino
    Rocketnino SLO, CA Posts: 42
    Looking for one GA - coming from the San Luis Obispo area on a tactical strike mission that evening after work.  Why not do one more, right?  To the George Costanza poster above... Let's get nuts!

    Anybody have an extra?  Think the odds are that more GAs will show up in the next few days/weeks?
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    Rocketnino said:
    Looking for one GA - coming from the San Luis Obispo area on a tactical strike mission that evening after work.  Why not do one more, right?  To the George Costanza poster above... Let's get nuts!

    Anybody have an extra?  Think the odds are that more GAs will show up in the next few days/weeks?
    PM'd
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,096
    BF25394 said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Red Mosqito said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    huntersthompson said:
    I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

    Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

    The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

    For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

    I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

    By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

    Even though I’m very grumpy, it’s important to me to be happy for all the fans that get shows. And to JVs point, this is basically the 2020 tour. But “someone” in management must have known that even in 2020 the msg prices on stub hub were near a grand? Money is a great indication of imbalance with the gig a ton tour. As much as Ed likes to joke they were going to gig a ton, they should have known that their tour routing created a huge imbalance, and the one fix? Add five dates to an already saturated Cali tour, counting 2021? And maybe another for encore 2022? Is this a band in touch with their fans?

    I get that there’s 40 million in CA, but there are far more on the east coast. The DC to Boston corridor has over sixty million in a smaller area.

    Bottom line, it’s brutal for us in the east, and I’m sure Texas and the south as well (and oz is way overdue for some shows!) , where logistically or financially traveling a week and dropping a grand for shows is not realistic. Those TM blue dots for every May date, I don’t think I ever saw one of those on a show for a concert near me, ever. Not once. But hey, enjoy it while it’s there Cali.
    Brutal for you guys in the East? You do realize the band has played a total of 23 shows over the last 10 years between NY, MA, PA, NJ and MD alone. That hardly sounds like a coast that's been starving for shows. 


    I’ll trust your math but we are at 4 arena shows in ten years in NY, and if also counting Global Cit and all those Fenway horrors with no GA (sorry, MLB stadia and concert dynamics don’t mix well) is in no way comparable to the seven show run at one time in CA now which is creating a sea of blue dots on TM, which, I guess needs be said again, have never ever appeared for shows in NYC region. Nor Fenway either. So the market is clearly indicating an imbalance. And single shows like this years MSG shall also not be counted in that “23 of the future” ;)  bc chances at tix for that are a bit absurd for a NY show. I know you know simple counts can be significantly misleading.
    There hasn't been an arena show in southern California since 2013.  Not one.

    Saying they are playing seven shows in CA is like saying they're playing seven shows in the northeast.  The distance between the Bay Area cities and the SoCal cities is similar to the distance between Boston and Baltimore.  If they played twice in Boston, twice in New York, twice in Philly and once in Baltimore, no one would bat an eye.  With respect to demand, there is a degree of "artificial" (i.e., not local) demand for shows in the northeast because many fans have convinced themselves that shows at Madison Square Garden or in Philly are automatically special or better* than shows in other cities and will travel in numbers to those shows.  You also can't pretend like these upcoming shows are happening in a normal environment.  We are coming out of a two-year pandemic and a period of major social and economic disruption.  Many, many people are still not back to "normal" activity.

    *They aren't.  I am from New York City.  I also lived in Boston for six years.  I now live in L.A.  I've seen them more than 60 times in all of these places (eight times at MSG alone) and everywhere from Spokane to Wisconsin to Maryland.  There have been great shows in the northeast, and there have been "ordinary" shows there.  There have been great shows in CA (the four nights at the Gibson Amphitheatre come to mind) and ordinary ones. 


    I agree with your artificial demand point makes it worse (but the band has also said 20 years ago album sales are disproportionate around here even accounting for population density), but that only makes it worse for fans here, not better. The only year I can recall something similar to the blue dot bonanza  so many fans are enjoying out west (which is phenomenal!) is 2013. Personally I was sol that year, went to one Brooklyn show, wasn’t into traveling for shows at all back then (stupid me). Since then, ten years counting 2022, it’s been a series of single and double shows in one or two cities (never above four per year IIRC), so since 2013, it’s been a brutal process to find tix.

    They could have played a thousand shows in the east in the last decade. If every one is an immediate sellout and impossible to get via resale, that’s the point, not that from afar it looks like the band is matching fan demand. I’m the meantime, enjoy those blue dots, I don’t recall ever seeing so many options like that round here. But the Counting Crows are playing this year a lot round…
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,604
    Practice your duck and cover drills for when Encore gets announced. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,341
    JimmyV said:
    Practice your duck and cover drills for when Encore gets announced. 
    Hopefully they announce it right after the California leg is over. 
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
  • JeBurkhardt
    JeBurkhardt Posts: 5,341
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You would take Amtrak to Richmond, and then transfer to BART to get to SF, but that would be the best way IMO. I have taken Amtrak from Southern Illinois to Chicago, which takes around the same amount of time that it takes to get from Fresno to Richmond. We have enjoyed it.  
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited April 2022
    JeBurkhardt said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You would take Amtrak to Richmond, and then transfer to BART to get to SF, but that would be the best way IMO. I have taken Amtrak from Southern Illinois to Chicago, which takes around the same amount of time that it takes to get from Fresno to Richmond. We have enjoyed it.  
    Thanks but I am unsure about that Richmond dropoff. There is an Amtrak Bus that takes you from Emeryville to San Francisco part of the fee with a transfer. It is $38 all in and likely I will book that today. Pretty excited to add San Francisco sightseeing to this trip now. Also I am unfamiliar with Amtrak and curious if these are reliable with no delays or do they tend to be delayed?
    Post edited by PJNB on
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,145
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited April 2022
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    Nah I am afraid to pay the rental car rates at the moment. 

    You guys drive on the left side don't you??
  • 100 Pacer
    100 Pacer Toronto, ON Posts: 9,329
    PJNB said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    Nah I am afraid to pay the rental car rates at the moment. 

    You guys drive on the left side don't you??
    Best I have found is $269 picked up at LAX May 15-21. 
    To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."

    "Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."

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  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    100 Pacer said:
    PJNB said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    Nah I am afraid to pay the rental car rates at the moment. 

    You guys drive on the left side don't you??
    Best I have found is $269 picked up at LAX May 15-21. 
    Thats actually a really good rate. With my trip though I need a different location for drop off so its $140 a day. 
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,145
    PJNB said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    Nah I am afraid to pay the rental car rates at the moment. 

    You guys drive on the left side don't you??
    Left side in reverse.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    Nah I am afraid to pay the rental car rates at the moment. 

    You guys drive on the left side don't you??
    Left side in reverse.  
    Lol I knew it. 
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,924
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJNB said:
    Best way to get to San Francisco the day after the Fresno show would be the Amtrak correct? 
    You afraid to drive in the states?  ;)
    Nah I am afraid to pay the rental car rates at the moment. 

    You guys drive on the left side don't you??
    Left side in reverse.  
    And blindfolded.
    This weekend we rock Portland

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