Ukraine

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  • this is obviously very premature, I'm wondering if this is eventually going to turn into an Israel/Palestine type of situation where there is never ending conflict between Ukraine and Russia-occupied Ukraine. 
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    I do kind of feel like it's time to push Putin back. Send bombers to Poland for a training exercise. Put troops on the border.


    Yep.  This is what you call a self fulfilling prophesy.  Putin didn't need to worry about NATO until he created the conditions necessary to worry about NATO. 

    But at the end of the day, he's doing this because his country was already economically stunted.  His per capita GDP is third world. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    I do kind of feel like it's time to push Putin back. Send bombers to Poland for a training exercise. Put troops on the border.


    Heard on the radio that some troops are being deployed to NATO countries and other resources are being moved from places like Germany to the baltic area.  Unsure if true, but that's what I heard
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    I do kind of feel like it's time to push Putin back. Send bombers to Poland for a training exercise. Put troops on the border.


    The reason we don't do this is if something happens to one of our troops/planes/etc shit gets real.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,925
    dignin said:
    MayDay10 said:
    Honestly not too sure what to think about the power plant 'attack'.  Who knows what exactly happened there.  I think Putin is an evil piece of shit and its hard giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Ukraine stands to gain a lot from this kind of outrage/fear.  No doubt Ukraine is also spreading a degree of misinformation.  I know Russia was quick in securing Chernobyl, for that very reason I believe.   
    This Russian army seems to make a lot of mistakes.

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,355
    Poncier said:
    dignin said:
    MayDay10 said:
    Honestly not too sure what to think about the power plant 'attack'.  Who knows what exactly happened there.  I think Putin is an evil piece of shit and its hard giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Ukraine stands to gain a lot from this kind of outrage/fear.  No doubt Ukraine is also spreading a degree of misinformation.  I know Russia was quick in securing Chernobyl, for that very reason I believe.   
    This Russian army seems to make a lot of mistakes.

    The guy on the right?  Is that the one that kept calling Happy Gillmore a Jackass?
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,882
    Poncier said:
    dignin said:
    MayDay10 said:
    Honestly not too sure what to think about the power plant 'attack'.  Who knows what exactly happened there.  I think Putin is an evil piece of shit and its hard giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Ukraine stands to gain a lot from this kind of outrage/fear.  No doubt Ukraine is also spreading a degree of misinformation.  I know Russia was quick in securing Chernobyl, for that very reason I believe.   
    This Russian army seems to make a lot of mistakes.

    The guy on the right?  Is that the one that kept calling Happy Gillmore a Jackass?
    Yep
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,275
    I do kind of feel like it's time to push Putin back. Send bombers to Poland for a training exercise. Put troops on the border.


    The reason we don't do this is if something happens to one of our troops/planes/etc shit gets real.
    It has to get real at some point. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,025
    I do kind of feel like it's time to push Putin back. Send bombers to Poland for a training exercise. Put troops on the border.


    The reason we don't do this is if something happens to one of our troops/planes/etc shit gets real.
    It has to get real at some point. 
    It’s already real. Very real, unfortunately.
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    mrussel1 said:
    If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety.  If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges.  Nuclear war is not imminent. 

    Generally, what you say here, M, makes good sense.  Being eaten alive by anxiety is never a healthy way to go.  I have to work hard to curb my anxiety every day because I have chronic anxiety and this situation in Ukraine does not help.  Nor does thinking back and being a little kid in the early to mid 50's and having to do that damn duck and cover routine and having nightmares about bright flashes of light and nuclear death.  So I do all things things I know to do to curb the anxiety.
    But besides that, there is curbing the anger.  All these years of hoping for a better world, doing my little part, engaging in activism, education and discussion.  Sending money money money.  And now this.  I'm extremely disappointed and angry that we are where we are at.   The only antidote to that anger is to keep hoping for a miracle... or at least some well thought out actions by people with the ability to make a difference, as well as the hope that the world at large will come to it's senses and see how dangerous authoritarian rule is and turn to democracy as the better way.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety.  If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges.  Nuclear war is not imminent. 

    Generally, what you say here, M, makes good sense.  Being eaten alive by anxiety is never a healthy way to go.  I have to work hard to curb my anxiety every day because I have chronic anxiety and this situation in Ukraine does not help.  Nor does thinking back and being a little kid in the early to mid 50's and having to do that damn duck and cover routine and having nightmares about bright flashes of light and nuclear death.  So I do all things things I know to do to curb the anxiety.
    But besides that, there is curbing the anger.  All these years of hoping for a better world, doing my little part, engaging in activism, education and discussion.  Sending money money money.  And now this.  I'm extremely disappointed and angry that we are where we are at.   The only antidote to that anger is to keep hoping for a miracle... or at least some well thought out actions by people with the ability to make a difference, as well as the hope that the world at large will come to it's senses and see how dangerous authoritarian rule is and turn to democracy as the better way.
    Think of it this way, Brian, I'm actually heartened by what is happening.  As a person of direct Ukrainian descent, I'm horrified by what is happening to the country.  However, in the 20s, 30, and 40's, these invasions were commonplace and often led to shrugs and isolationist tendencies from Americans and people from all over the world.  I cannot think of a similar action which has led to such swift and unified anger from the world community as this invasion.  Even China and India abstained from certain votes rather than lend their support to Russia in their actions.  Yes, they are officially against sanctions, but that is always their position.  

    So look for the upside, of which there is some.  Not only has the world community come together, but the people have as well, through social media, in a way that we've never seen before in our history.  Everyone is watching and judging.  We're also watching the massive demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg too. No matter how this war concludes, Russia will be a pariah state for years to come, certainly as long as Putin's regime is in place.
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 8,441
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety.  If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges.  Nuclear war is not imminent. 

    Generally, what you say here, M, makes good sense.  Being eaten alive by anxiety is never a healthy way to go.  I have to work hard to curb my anxiety every day because I have chronic anxiety and this situation in Ukraine does not help.  Nor does thinking back and being a little kid in the early to mid 50's and having to do that damn duck and cover routine and having nightmares about bright flashes of light and nuclear death.  So I do all things things I know to do to curb the anxiety.
    But besides that, there is curbing the anger.  All these years of hoping for a better world, doing my little part, engaging in activism, education and discussion.  Sending money money money.  And now this.  I'm extremely disappointed and angry that we are where we are at.   The only antidote to that anger is to keep hoping for a miracle... or at least some well thought out actions by people with the ability to make a difference, as well as the hope that the world at large will come to it's senses and see how dangerous authoritarian rule is and turn to democracy as the better way.
    Think of it this way, Brian, I'm actually heartened by what is happening.  As a person of direct Ukrainian descent, I'm horrified by what is happening to the country.  However, in the 20s, 30, and 40's, these invasions were commonplace and often led to shrugs and isolationist tendencies from Americans and people from all over the world.  I cannot think of a similar action which has led to such swift and unified anger from the world community as this invasion.  Even China and India abstained from certain votes rather than lend their support to Russia in their actions.  Yes, they are officially against sanctions, but that is always their position.  

    So look for the upside, of which there is some.  Not only has the world community come together, but the people have as well, through social media, in a way that we've never seen before in our history.  Everyone is watching and judging.  We're also watching the massive demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg too. No matter how this war concludes, Russia will be a pariah state for years to come, certainly as long as Putin's regime is in place.
    Post of the year so far. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,982
    edited March 2022
    nicknyr15 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety.  If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges.  Nuclear war is not imminent. 

    Generally, what you say here, M, makes good sense.  Being eaten alive by anxiety is never a healthy way to go.  I have to work hard to curb my anxiety every day because I have chronic anxiety and this situation in Ukraine does not help.  Nor does thinking back and being a little kid in the early to mid 50's and having to do that damn duck and cover routine and having nightmares about bright flashes of light and nuclear death.  So I do all things things I know to do to curb the anxiety.
    But besides that, there is curbing the anger.  All these years of hoping for a better world, doing my little part, engaging in activism, education and discussion.  Sending money money money.  And now this.  I'm extremely disappointed and angry that we are where we are at.   The only antidote to that anger is to keep hoping for a miracle... or at least some well thought out actions by people with the ability to make a difference, as well as the hope that the world at large will come to it's senses and see how dangerous authoritarian rule is and turn to democracy as the better way.
    Think of it this way, Brian, I'm actually heartened by what is happening.  As a person of direct Ukrainian descent, I'm horrified by what is happening to the country.  However, in the 20s, 30, and 40's, these invasions were commonplace and often led to shrugs and isolationist tendencies from Americans and people from all over the world.  I cannot think of a similar action which has led to such swift and unified anger from the world community as this invasion.  Even China and India abstained from certain votes rather than lend their support to Russia in their actions.  Yes, they are officially against sanctions, but that is always their position.  

    So look for the upside, of which there is some.  Not only has the world community come together, but the people have as well, through social media, in a way that we've never seen before in our history.  Everyone is watching and judging.  We're also watching the massive demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg too. No matter how this war concludes, Russia will be a pariah state for years to come, certainly as long as Putin's regime is in place.
    Post of the year so far. 
    agreed. and I say this as the previous title holder. lol
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety.  If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges.  Nuclear war is not imminent. 

    Generally, what you say here, M, makes good sense.  Being eaten alive by anxiety is never a healthy way to go.  I have to work hard to curb my anxiety every day because I have chronic anxiety and this situation in Ukraine does not help.  Nor does thinking back and being a little kid in the early to mid 50's and having to do that damn duck and cover routine and having nightmares about bright flashes of light and nuclear death.  So I do all things things I know to do to curb the anxiety.
    But besides that, there is curbing the anger.  All these years of hoping for a better world, doing my little part, engaging in activism, education and discussion.  Sending money money money.  And now this.  I'm extremely disappointed and angry that we are where we are at.   The only antidote to that anger is to keep hoping for a miracle... or at least some well thought out actions by people with the ability to make a difference, as well as the hope that the world at large will come to it's senses and see how dangerous authoritarian rule is and turn to democracy as the better way.
    Think of it this way, Brian, I'm actually heartened by what is happening.  As a person of direct Ukrainian descent, I'm horrified by what is happening to the country.  However, in the 20s, 30, and 40's, these invasions were commonplace and often led to shrugs and isolationist tendencies from Americans and people from all over the world.  I cannot think of a similar action which has led to such swift and unified anger from the world community as this invasion.  Even China and India abstained from certain votes rather than lend their support to Russia in their actions.  Yes, they are officially against sanctions, but that is always their position.  

    So look for the upside, of which there is some.  Not only has the world community come together, but the people have as well, through social media, in a way that we've never seen before in our history.  Everyone is watching and judging.  We're also watching the massive demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg too. No matter how this war concludes, Russia will be a pariah state for years to come, certainly as long as Putin's regime is in place.

    Good points, M. 
    I should make it clear that my concern, though to a degree is selfish, is even greater for the well being of Europe, especially some close friend who are European.  It's easier for us to stay relatively calm, but we don't have threat of a nuclear power plant being bombed to smithereens right next door to us.  And if that happens, we will all feel the ramifications is ways we don't want to think about.
    Sorry, don't mean to curb your optimism.  That is a good thing to have right now, as much as possible.
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    edited March 2022
    Hey, Tim Bierman and  @Santos L. Halper - do you think now would be a good time double-check Tenclubs priorities, concerning having a US and a UK store but skipping having one for the European Union?



    Personally, I would make sure the  European Union had one.

    Regarding London:


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    So, by maps and information found in abandoned trucks the War was planned to be done in 15 days - from februari 20th to march 6. 

    Wonder where they stand on the 6th...
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    I don't blame Zelensky for pushing this.  WW3 is here for him right now.  However, creating a no fly zone that you enforce means it will be likely that there is air combat between Russia and NATO (or the US).  That's a significant escalation, the type of which we have not ever seen since what.. 1962?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086

    Is the end result you're shooting for with the frequent themed posts about the band and hypocrisy is that Pearl Jam no longer take a stance on anything reflecting any significant values?
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525

    Is the end result you're shooting for with the frequent themed posts about the band and hypocrisy is that Pearl Jam no longer take a stance on anything reflecting any significant values?
    no
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    edited March 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    I don't blame Zelensky for pushing this.  WW3 is here for him right now.  However, creating a no fly zone that you enforce means it will be likely that there is air combat between Russia and NATO (or the US).  That's a significant escalation, the type of which we have not ever seen since what.. 1962?
    Yeah. I don't really understand if it is an act of desperation or if Zelensky thinks that it is sound and possible... 


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • if they took the same stances they did in the 90's, they'd never play live again. everything is sponsored now. that wasn't so in the band's infancy. 
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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889

    Are You the same person you were 20 years ago? Do you make the same amount of money!?  Jk
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    Please don't tell me Pearl Jam played a festival sponsored by Shell oil.  Please!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,086

    Is the end result you're shooting for with the frequent themed posts about the band and hypocrisy is that Pearl Jam no longer take a stance on anything reflecting any significant values?
    no

    Butt's still chapped about the Motley Crue thing.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    Nice work Brandon!  The administration had been supplying Ukraine for months. 

    As war loomed, U.S. armed Ukraine to hit Russian aircraft, tanks and prep for urban combat, declassified shipment list shows


    The United States drastically enhanced its shipments of lethal military aid and protective equipment to Ukraine as the prospect of a Russian invasion became more apparent and then a reality, according to a declassified accounting of transfers and sales reviewed by The Washington Post.
    The list indicates that as early as December, the Pentagon was equipping Ukrainian fighters with arms and equipment useful for fighting in urban areas, including shotguns and specialized suits to safeguard soldiers handling unexploded ordnance. Over the last week, the Biden administration has increased such shipments, sending Stinger antiaircraft missile systems for the first time and further augmenting Kyiv’s supply of antitank Javelin missiles and other ammunition.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,025
    mrussel1 said:
    Nice work Brandon!  The administration had been supplying Ukraine for months. 

    As war loomed, U.S. armed Ukraine to hit Russian aircraft, tanks and prep for urban combat, declassified shipment list shows


    The United States drastically enhanced its shipments of lethal military aid and protective equipment to Ukraine as the prospect of a Russian invasion became more apparent and then a reality, according to a declassified accounting of transfers and sales reviewed by The Washington Post.
    The list indicates that as early as December, the Pentagon was equipping Ukrainian fighters with arms and equipment useful for fighting in urban areas, including shotguns and specialized suits to safeguard soldiers handling unexploded ordnance. Over the last week, the Biden administration has increased such shipments, sending Stinger antiaircraft missile systems for the first time and further augmenting Kyiv’s supply of antitank Javelin missiles and other ammunition.
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,592
    14 widebody aircraft have landed to deliver supplies to Ukraine.
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