Concern is mounting over the movements of a huge column of Russian military vehicles outside Kyiv. While a US defence official suggested it appeared to have “stalled”, there was also speculation that an estimated 15,000 troops attached to it may be regrouping and waiting for logistical supplies before an assault on Kyiv.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I understand the fear of escalating this into a nuclear war. But at the same time I’d hate to do nothing and watch tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands Ukrainians get killed only to see Putin not stop and invade another country and go to war anyway. I’m sure we can do some serious damage to that convoy with some drone strikes.
I understand the fear of escalating this into a nuclear war. But at the same time I’d hate to do nothing and watch tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands Ukrainians get killed only to see Putin not stop and invade another country and go to war anyway. I’m sure we can do some serious damage to that convoy with some drone strikes.
I understand the fear of escalating this into a nuclear war. But at the same time I’d hate to do nothing and watch tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands Ukrainians get killed only to see Putin not stop and invade another country and go to war anyway. I’m sure we can do some serious damage to that convoy with some drone strikes.
It's a tempting thought, of course. But the risk of starting something even more disastrous than what is happening in Ukraine is too great- a classic "cutting off your nose to spite you face" situation. I think we're doing the right thing at this point.
But yeah, it's damn hard to sit back and watch what's going down over there.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I understand the fear of escalating this into a nuclear war. But at the same time I’d hate to do nothing and watch tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands Ukrainians get killed only to see Putin not stop and invade another country and go to war anyway. I’m sure we can do some serious damage to that convoy with some drone strikes.
It's a tempting thought, of course. But the risk of starting something even more disastrous than what is happening in Ukraine is too great- a classic "cutting off your nose to spite you face" situation. I think we're doing the right thing at this point.
But yeah, it's damn hard to sit back and watch what's going down over there.
I agree. Right now it’s right. It’s sad, basically sacrificing Ukraine for the rest of the world. But if Putin doesn’t stop with Ukraine, and I’m less convinced each day he will, and invades a NATO country and we go to war anyway, that’s going to be a tough pill to swallow.
Sounds like Russia is attack nuclear power plants, that would be 10 times worse than Chernobyl. We might get that nuclear disaster without even going to war.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I understand the fear of escalating this into a nuclear war. But at the same time I’d hate to do nothing and watch tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands Ukrainians get killed only to see Putin not stop and invade another country and go to war anyway. I’m sure we can do some serious damage to that convoy with some drone strikes.
It's a tempting thought, of course. But the risk of starting something even more disastrous than what is happening in Ukraine is too great- a classic "cutting off your nose to spite you face" situation. I think we're doing the right thing at this point.
But yeah, it's damn hard to sit back and watch what's going down over there.
I agree. Right now it’s right. It’s sad, basically sacrificing Ukraine for the rest of the world. But if Putin doesn’t stop with Ukraine, and I’m less convinced each day he will, and invades a NATO country and we go to war anyway, that’s going to be a tough pill to swallow.
That concern is addressed here in this recent NY Times article:
Washington’s Newest Worry: The Dangers of Cornering Putin
Surprised
by the speed at which sanctions have been poured on Russia, Biden’s top
aides suspect that Putin’s reaction will be to double down and lash out
— and perhaps expand the war.
WASHINGTON —
Senior White House officials designing the strategy to confront Russia
have begun quietly debating a new concern: that the avalanche of
sanctions directed at Moscow, which have gained speed faster than they
imagined, is cornering President Vladimir V. Putin and may prompt him to lash out, perhaps expanding the conflict beyond Ukraine.
In
Situation Room meetings in recent days, the issue has come up
repeatedly, according to three officials. Mr. Putin’s tendency, American
intelligence officials have told the White House and Congress, is to
double down when he feels trapped by his own overreach. So they have
described a series of possible reactions, ranging from indiscriminate
shelling of Ukrainian cities to compensate for the early mistakes made
by his invading force, to cyberattacks directed at the American
financial system, to more nuclear threats and perhaps moves to take the
war beyond Ukraine’s borders.
The
debate over Mr. Putin’s next moves is linked to an urgent re-examination
by intelligence agencies of the Russian leader’s mental state, and
whether his ambitions and appetite for risk have been altered by two
years of Covid isolation.
Those
concerns accelerated after Mr. Putin’s order on Sunday to place the
country’s strategic nuclear weapons on a “combat ready” alert to respond
to the West’s “aggressive comments.” (In the ensuing days, however,
national security officials say they have seen little evidence on the
ground that Russia’s nuclear forces have actually moved to a different
state of readiness.)
It was a sign of
the depth of American concern that Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III
announced Wednesday that he was canceling a previously scheduled
Minuteman nuclear missile test, to avoid escalating direct challenges to
Moscow or giving Mr. Putin an excuse to once again invoke the power of
the country’s nuclear arsenal.
“We did
not take this decision lightly, but instead, to demonstrate that we are
a responsible nuclear power,” John F. Kirby, the Pentagon press
secretary, said Wednesday. “We recognize at this moment of tension how
critical it is that both the United States and Russia bear in mind the
risk of miscalculation, and take steps to reduce those risks.”
Nonetheless,
Mr. Putin’s reaction to the initial wave of sanctions has provoked a
range of concerns that one senior official called the “Cornered Putin
Problem.” Those concerns center on a series of recent announcements: the
pullout of oil companies like Exxon and Shell from developing Russia’s
oil fields, the moves against Russia’s central bank that sent the ruble
plunging, and Germany’s surprise announcement that it would drop its ban
on sending lethal weapons to the Ukrainian forces and ramp up its
defense spending.
But beyond canceling
the missile test, there is no evidence that the United States is
considering steps to reduce tensions, and a senior official said there
was no interest in backing off sanctions.
“Quite
the contrary,’’ said the official, who, like other American officials
interviewed for this story, asked for anonymity to discuss the internal
debates among Mr. Biden’s advisers.
In fact, President Biden announced
expanded sanctions on Thursday, aimed at Russia’s oligarch class. Many
of those named — including Dmitry Peskov, Mr. Putin’s spokesman and one
of his close advisers — rank among his most influential defenders and
the beneficiaries of the system he has created.
Mr. Biden, reading a prepared statement and taking no questions, said the sanctions have had “a profound impact already.”
A
few hours after he spoke, S&P dropped Russia’s credit rating to
CCC-, the credit-rating agency said in a statement. That is far below
the junk bond levels Russia was ranked at a few days after the invasion,
and just two notches above a warning that the country was going into
default.
It suggested that Mr. Putin’s
effort to “sanctions-proof” his economy had largely failed. And at
least for now, there is no discernible off-ramp for the Russian leader
short of declaring a cease-fire or pulling back his forces — steps he
has so far shown no interest in taking.
At
a news briefing at the White House on Thursday afternoon, Jen Psaki,
the press secretary, said that she knew of no efforts to show Mr. Putin a
way out. “I think right in this moment, they are marching toward Kyiv
with a convoy and continuing to take reportedly barbaric steps against
the people of Ukraine. So now is not the moment where we are offering
options for reducing sanctions.”
Yet a
senior State Department official, asked about the debates inside the
administration on the risks ahead, said there were nuances in the
administration’s approach that point to possible outs for the Russian
leader.
Sounds like Russia is attack nuclear power plants, that would be 10 times worse than Chernobyl. We might get that nuclear disaster without even going to war.
Yes, a huge concern. This whole things is beyond stressful, even here from the relative safety of so far away. But the effects could spread far and wide. Hopefully level heads will somehow prevail.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
^ thanks for sharing a bit of the paywalled information Brian.
I'm going to check out this documentary for as long as I can handle some man yakking at me... oh good... starts with female narration... maybe I'll get through a bit of it then.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
^ thanks for sharing a bit of the paywalled information Brian.
I'm going to check out this documentary for as long as I can handle some man yakking at me... oh good... starts with female narration... maybe I'll get through a bit of it then.
Happy to do so, Tish. I finally went with a subscription to NY Times and although copy and pasting from them feels a bit like pirating or bootlegging (which I don't do), I think under extraordinary situations like these, the information needs to be available.
My wife just saw a blurb on her phone about a nuclear power plant in Ukraine, the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, being hit with a rocket and on fire. Her first reaction, naturally, was great concern. The latest from The Guardian will ease some of that tension, at least for now:
"The blaze, located in a training building on the perimeter of the site,
started early on Friday morning and was extinguished by about 6.20am
Ukraine time. Ukrainian authorities said that the site had been secured
and the reactors were safe, and the IAEA said the fire had not affected “essential” equipment."
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
This shit is getting too much. That nuclear plant is the biggest in europe. Meanwhile on my tv a childrens cancer hospital is trying to treat children underground. In our last 3 years ive feared for my childrens lives more than i ever feared anything. Its just too much.
brixton 93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
This shit is getting too much. That nuclear plant is the biggest in europe. Meanwhile on my tv a childrens cancer hospital is trying to treat children underground. In our last 3 years ive feared for my childrens lives more than i ever feared anything. Its just too much.
It's a rough time, Rob, for sure.
Zelenskyy recently said Europe needs to step in and stop the Russian troops before they create a worse disaster. Other world leaders are urging a cease fire but I kind of doubt Putin will listen. I'm beginning to think Zelenskyy is right, but that's also a scary thought. I've seen a lot of crazy shit happen in this world but this is over the top. Somebody needs to do something. It feels like the whole fucking world is creaming STOP! How can one man create so much chaos? It's beyond belief.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Putin just proved he'll stop at nothing; nukes are definitely on the table. he's probably itching to use them.
Yup. He's going to pivot to any country not in NATO as well. He's humiliated, so naturally it's his time to have a tantrum. And that's probably mostly due to the fact that any result out of this otherwise is Russia getting pounded into the ground for the indefinite future economically.
In early January, Big Wreck recorded this haunting version of Sting's classic, "Russians". What was purely a topical situation at the time, has clearly now unfolded to be a volatile and terrifying situations for millions. We have decided to release this song, with 100% of all proceeds going to the UNHRC (A United Nations Refugee Aid Organization). This organization is working to provide support and aid to refugees currently fleeing the violent situation in Ukraine.
So when would the rest of the world react to mass casualties is there a number of threshold? 100k 250k 1million? Can the rest of the world really sit by and only impose sanctions?
Honestly not too sure what to think about the power plant 'attack'. Who knows what exactly happened there. I think Putin is an evil piece of shit and its hard giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Ukraine stands to gain a lot from this kind of outrage/fear. No doubt Ukraine is also spreading a degree of misinformation. I know Russia was quick in securing Chernobyl, for that very reason I believe.
In early January, Big Wreck recorded this haunting version of Sting's classic, "Russians". What was purely a topical situation at the time, has clearly now unfolded to be a volatile and terrifying situations for millions. We have decided to release this song, with 100% of all proceeds going to the UNHRC (A United Nations Refugee Aid Organization). This organization is working to provide support and aid to refugees currently fleeing the violent situation in Ukraine.
Honestly not too sure what to think about the power plant 'attack'. Who knows what exactly happened there. I think Putin is an evil piece of shit and its hard giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Ukraine stands to gain a lot from this kind of outrage/fear. No doubt Ukraine is also spreading a degree of misinformation. I know Russia was quick in securing Chernobyl, for that very reason I believe.
Yup, fog of war. We know nothing yet.
Most likely it's the army being careless. This Russian army seems to make a lot of mistakes.
If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety. If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges. Nuclear war is not imminent.
If you're not living in Ukraine or Moldova, I would not let this war eat you alive with anxiety. If you do, it's not about Putin, it's about your personal struggles and challenges. Nuclear war is not imminent.
Honestly not too sure what to think about the power plant 'attack'. Who knows what exactly happened there. I think Putin is an evil piece of shit and its hard giving him the benefit of the doubt, but Ukraine stands to gain a lot from this kind of outrage/fear. No doubt Ukraine is also spreading a degree of misinformation. I know Russia was quick in securing Chernobyl, for that very reason I believe.
Yup, fog of war. We know nothing yet.
Most likely it's the army being careless. This Russian army seems to make a lot of mistakes.
In early January, Big Wreck recorded this haunting version of Sting's classic, "Russians". What was purely a topical situation at the time, has clearly now unfolded to be a volatile and terrifying situations for millions. We have decided to release this song, with 100% of all proceeds going to the UNHRC (A United Nations Refugee Aid Organization). This organization is working to provide support and aid to refugees currently fleeing the violent situation in Ukraine.
and you can set your price, if you wish to donate more than the minimum.
I loved Big Wreck back in the day.
it's basically Ian Thornley and friends. check out Ian's solo record though (Secrets). If you like his more bluesy stuff. it's on vinyl on his website if you dig.
Zalensky has reaffirmed a desire for talks directly with Putin and acknowledged he will need to make some concessions.
If this continues as-is, (even if Russia advances), Putin is going to have to realize his best course of action is at the diplomacy table at this point. Pressure is mounting up against him domestically. It will only increase with more time and blood. He can still flaunt 'a win' at home. An occupation per-se will be never-ending.
As much as it sucks, I think NATO and the US will need to Summit with Putin as well in the aftermath.
Comments
But if Putin doesn’t stop with Ukraine, and I’m less convinced each day he will, and invades a NATO country and we go to war anyway, that’s going to be a tough pill to swallow.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/?utm_source=reddit.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Washington’s Newest Worry: The Dangers of Cornering Putin
Surprised by the speed at which sanctions have been poured on Russia, Biden’s top aides suspect that Putin’s reaction will be to double down and lash out — and perhaps expand the war.
WASHINGTON — Senior White House officials designing the strategy to confront Russia have begun quietly debating a new concern: that the avalanche of sanctions directed at Moscow, which have gained speed faster than they imagined, is cornering President Vladimir V. Putin and may prompt him to lash out, perhaps expanding the conflict beyond Ukraine.
In Situation Room meetings in recent days, the issue has come up repeatedly, according to three officials. Mr. Putin’s tendency, American intelligence officials have told the White House and Congress, is to double down when he feels trapped by his own overreach. So they have described a series of possible reactions, ranging from indiscriminate shelling of Ukrainian cities to compensate for the early mistakes made by his invading force, to cyberattacks directed at the American financial system, to more nuclear threats and perhaps moves to take the war beyond Ukraine’s borders.
The debate over Mr. Putin’s next moves is linked to an urgent re-examination by intelligence agencies of the Russian leader’s mental state, and whether his ambitions and appetite for risk have been altered by two years of Covid isolation.
Those concerns accelerated after Mr. Putin’s order on Sunday to place the country’s strategic nuclear weapons on a “combat ready” alert to respond to the West’s “aggressive comments.” (In the ensuing days, however, national security officials say they have seen little evidence on the ground that Russia’s nuclear forces have actually moved to a different state of readiness.)
It was a sign of the depth of American concern that Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III announced Wednesday that he was canceling a previously scheduled Minuteman nuclear missile test, to avoid escalating direct challenges to Moscow or giving Mr. Putin an excuse to once again invoke the power of the country’s nuclear arsenal.
“We did not take this decision lightly, but instead, to demonstrate that we are a responsible nuclear power,” John F. Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, said Wednesday. “We recognize at this moment of tension how critical it is that both the United States and Russia bear in mind the risk of miscalculation, and take steps to reduce those risks.”
Nonetheless, Mr. Putin’s reaction to the initial wave of sanctions has provoked a range of concerns that one senior official called the “Cornered Putin Problem.” Those concerns center on a series of recent announcements: the pullout of oil companies like Exxon and Shell from developing Russia’s oil fields, the moves against Russia’s central bank that sent the ruble plunging, and Germany’s surprise announcement that it would drop its ban on sending lethal weapons to the Ukrainian forces and ramp up its defense spending.
But beyond canceling the missile test, there is no evidence that the United States is considering steps to reduce tensions, and a senior official said there was no interest in backing off sanctions.
“Quite the contrary,’’ said the official, who, like other American officials interviewed for this story, asked for anonymity to discuss the internal debates among Mr. Biden’s advisers.
In fact, President Biden announced expanded sanctions on Thursday, aimed at Russia’s oligarch class. Many of those named — including Dmitry Peskov, Mr. Putin’s spokesman and one of his close advisers — rank among his most influential defenders and the beneficiaries of the system he has created.
Mr. Biden, reading a prepared statement and taking no questions, said the sanctions have had “a profound impact already.”
A few hours after he spoke, S&P dropped Russia’s credit rating to CCC-, the credit-rating agency said in a statement. That is far below the junk bond levels Russia was ranked at a few days after the invasion, and just two notches above a warning that the country was going into default.
It suggested that Mr. Putin’s effort to “sanctions-proof” his economy had largely failed. And at least for now, there is no discernible off-ramp for the Russian leader short of declaring a cease-fire or pulling back his forces — steps he has so far shown no interest in taking.
At a news briefing at the White House on Thursday afternoon, Jen Psaki, the press secretary, said that she knew of no efforts to show Mr. Putin a way out. “I think right in this moment, they are marching toward Kyiv with a convoy and continuing to take reportedly barbaric steps against the people of Ukraine. So now is not the moment where we are offering options for reducing sanctions.”
Yet a senior State Department official, asked about the debates inside the administration on the risks ahead, said there were nuances in the administration’s approach that point to possible outs for the Russian leader.
Yes, a huge concern. This whole things is beyond stressful, even here from the relative safety of so far away. But the effects could spread far and wide. Hopefully level heads will somehow prevail.
I'm going to check out this documentary for as long as I can handle some man yakking at me... oh good... starts with female narration... maybe I'll get through a bit of it then.
^dramatic - found basic information here instead
https://www.vox.com/2014/9/3/18088560/ukraine-everything-you-need-to-know
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
I've seen a lot of crazy shit happen in this world but this is over the top. Somebody needs to do something. It feels like the whole fucking world is creaming STOP! How can one man create so much chaos? It's beyond belief.
www.headstonesband.com
https://bigwreckmusic.bandcamp.com/track/russians
and you can set your price, if you wish to donate more than the minimum.
www.headstonesband.com
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Most likely it's the army being careless. This Russian army seems to make a lot of mistakes.
www.headstonesband.com
If this continues as-is, (even if Russia advances), Putin is going to have to realize his best course of action is at the diplomacy table at this point. Pressure is mounting up against him domestically. It will only increase with more time and blood. He can still flaunt 'a win' at home. An occupation per-se will be never-ending.
As much as it sucks, I think NATO and the US will need to Summit with Putin as well in the aftermath.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana