Ukraine

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,619
    edited February 2022
    For a comedian that was voted in and seemed like one big joke watching from afar (though I get why he was elected), I gotta say mea culpa on my part. This guy has been pretty fucking impressive.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,874
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    basically, in the world today, if anybody uses nukes, it is suicide as they will receive nukes from other countries almost immediately.
    I believe, in the world today that it is not as binary as this.
    well, i heard this from malcolm nance. try to tell him that.
    So how is this malcolm nuance saying about what other countries would nuke "almost immediately" ?
    i don't know. he said it yesterday. you can probably google him and find the quote. he was talking about nuclear failsafes.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656
    edited February 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  
    I'd argue European countries should have, in some philosophical way. A country in Europe being attacked without reason and begging for help, and we're just sitting here waiting for the Putin puppet regime to begin. US should might not take the lead. But should support an European initiative. 

    philosophically speaking. maybe the wrong term. But yes.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,296
    edited February 2022
    dignin said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Former boxing champ and current mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko taking up arms… 



    President Volodymyr Zelensky joining in the fight as well…


    that is badass. it seems weird to see that and know that the mayor of dc and the potus would never do that.
    It's a combination of desperation and propaganda.

    Which is smart and it works on me personally.

    I'm really disappointed in the West right now. I'm antiwar and have protested many wars but this feels different. Like we really should be doing a lot more than sanctions.

    At least a no fly zone. 

    My thought is that Russia has nukes and so we are stuck having to let them do whatever they want.  We have to take down Russia from within.  

     
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,014
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Former boxing champ and current mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko taking up arms… 



    President Volodymyr Zelensky joining in the fight as well…


    that is badass. it seems weird to see that and know that the mayor of dc and the potus would never do that.
    I've never been to eastern europe, but I just have this perception they grow up different than we do. We don't know local conflict like they do in recent memory. 
    i see these pictures and i think of american leaders that talk so tough. i try to imagine matt gaetz, josh hawley, and ted cruz dressing up in their jabroni cosplay to try to win votes rather than try to defend something that is under attack and i just have to laugh and shake my head.
    I think part of it too is knowing how unlikely it is they'll be able to hold off Russia, and the leaders are doing everything they can to inspire the Ukranian people to stand together and fight as well. 

    But you're right, that would never happen here. I hesitate to laugh though about republicans; I don't know how many democrats would either. Like I said, we just grow up different. Some might call that soft, I just call it the reality of growing up in a region of the world where most of the only conflict is among its own citizens over toilet paper and traffic. 
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,599
    So much respect for Zelensky. Those pictures are awesome.
    www.myspace.com
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,034
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Former boxing champ and current mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko taking up arms… 



    President Volodymyr Zelensky joining in the fight as well…


    that is badass. it seems weird to see that and know that the mayor of dc and the potus would never do that.
    Aside from the fact he’s president, it seems weird to you some 80 year old wouldn’t lead the charge into battle?
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    bootlegger10 said:
    dignin said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Former boxing champ and current mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko taking up arms… 



    President Volodymyr Zelensky joining in the fight as well…


    that is badass. it seems weird to see that and know that the mayor of dc and the potus would never do that.
    It's a combination of desperation and propaganda.

    Which is smart and it works on me personally.

    I'm really disappointed in the West right now. I'm antiwar and have protested many wars but this feels different. Like we really should be doing a lot more than sanctions.

    At least a no fly zone. 

    My thought is that Russia has nukes and so we are stuck having to let them do whatever they want.  We have to take down Russia from within.  

     
    I understand that, but believe it's a bluff.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  
    Yup.  You bring a nice level-headed voice to this.  Thanks.  Cause I'm upset...but you are correct.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,034
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  
    I agree. But there are other options. Just no clear right ones yet. In a month if Putin moves on to other counties we’re going to wish we had countered sooner. If in a month we feels the pressure and moves back we’ll be glad we didn’t. 
    But I’m thinking this is going to be more than just about Ukraine.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,396
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  

    Spot on, Putin threatened the West yesterday with nukes. Any commenters thinking we can get involved, read his words. The scary part is if Putin tries this in the Baltic states, who do have a treaty for US protection , that could put us on the edge of a nuclear war, or at least have it hanging over our heads


     “As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states,” Putin said, in his pre-invasion address early Thursday. 

    “Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.”




  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Lerxst1992 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  

    Spot on, Putin threatened the West yesterday with nukes. Any commenters thinking we can get involved, read his words. The scary part is if Putin tries this in the Baltic states, who do have a treaty for US protection , that could put us on the edge of a nuclear war, or at least have it hanging over our heads


     “As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states,” Putin said, in his pre-invasion address early Thursday. 

    “Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.”




    It's already hanging over our heads.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,874
    mace1229 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Former boxing champ and current mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko taking up arms… 



    President Volodymyr Zelensky joining in the fight as well…


    that is badass. it seems weird to see that and know that the mayor of dc and the potus would never do that.
    Aside from the fact he’s president, it seems weird to you some 80 year old wouldn’t lead the charge into battle?
    not all presidents are 80 year old men.

    washington might have ridden in to battle. grant may have. kennedy was a war hero, so he had been there. these politicians today are a joke. it is all about posturing and picking fights that other people have to go fight while the politicians are safe with their secret service detail.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656
    edited February 2022
    Him threatening to use nukes, I'd say is not less of a reason to get involved.

    If he is so sure of his nuclear and technological might, why does he have to threaten the world like he's North Korea? But ofc, maybe that was more to come of as a strongman in front of his Russian audience.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,874
    Lerxst1992 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So what is President Biden's course of action?  Are we good with economic sanctions? 
    It's hard to do much else without putting boots on the ground.  And there is no appetite for that in this country, left or right. So it looks like the strategy will be to strangle them economically.  You're looking at a few years here.  
    There’s other option. We’ve had conflicts with minimal boots on the ground before. Air strikes. I’m sure our Allie’s bases are close enough for manned and drone air strikes. Target their lines, defenses, navy thats assembling. .
    My guess would also be the fear of escalating. What would Putin do next? Would he go nuclear if he feels that threatened? Or would he just invade other countries and target those bases?
    Yes, but air strikes that kill Russian soldiers would be a substantial escalation particularly when a Russian had not made a move on us.  And we have no treaty or commitment to defend Ukraine.  It's a tough position for us, and everyone.  

    Spot on, Putin threatened the West yesterday with nukes. Any commenters thinking we can get involved, read his words. The scary part is if Putin tries this in the Baltic states, who do have a treaty for US protection , that could put us on the edge of a nuclear war, or at least have it hanging over our heads


     “As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states,” Putin said, in his pre-invasion address early Thursday. 

    “Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.”




    also belorussia has threatened to use nukes on russia's behalf. that leader is a madman as well.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,656

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    mace1229 said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Former boxing champ and current mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko taking up arms… 



    President Volodymyr Zelensky joining in the fight as well…


    that is badass. it seems weird to see that and know that the mayor of dc and the potus would never do that.
    Aside from the fact he’s president, it seems weird to you some 80 year old wouldn’t lead the charge into battle?
    not all presidents are 80 year old men.

    washington might have ridden in to battle. grant may have. kennedy was a war hero, so he had been there. these politicians today are a joke. it is all about posturing and picking fights that other people have to go fight while the politicians are safe with their secret service detail.
    Shoulda elected Pete.
    hippiemom = goodness

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