Will Pearl Jam join Neil Young in leaving Spotify?

vant0037

I didn’t use those terms trying to make a “data point.”  I looked at his episode library before posting.  Lots of alternative science on there.  That’s fine, just don’t pretend having a few opposing guests peppered in makes it anything other than a large platform for mostly one view.  I used words like “probably” and “seems” and “mostly” because they are generalizations, which aren’t inherently evil in a discussion.

vant0037

PB11041 said:

vant0037 said:

Suffice it to say that for every doctor or specialist like Michael Osterholm that Rogan has on the show, there are probably 4 other guests he hosts who reject established data on vaccines.  Not going to get into your debate above, but its pretty clear that Rogan gives a much bigger space to people espousing anti-vax views than he does to those on the other side.  Being balanced probably isn't his goal, but he does seem to feign some level of intellectual curiosity.  Curious then that he seems to have more guests of one side than the other.  I've made no secret as to which side I fall on, but the point of whether Rogan is clearly giving a large platform to people spreading anti-vax views shouldn't be controversial.  Whether anti-vax views are dangerous or not is perhaps a more important question.  I know where I fall on that question.

"probably"  and "seems" are not a data point, it is an echo chamber assumption.  

Also one should be very specific because context does matter.  Rogan is not an "anti-vaxxer" and the term is used with appalling ease these days because of the heightened tensions of the climate we are living in.

Being anti all vaccination and being or expressing hesitancy about a vaccine that was created in an accelarated time frame are not the same thing.

I think his concerns are a bit overwrought, but when that needle went into my arm last April I'd be lying if I said short term this is clearly fine but long term who knows.   

Also if anyone thought the vaccination rate was going to be 100%, please send me your venmo information I have a ponzi scheme I would like to ask your assistance on.

Fair enough: maybe he’s just an anti-vax enabler, if it makes you feel better.  I’m not sure there’s much difference.

Abe Froman

Having open discussions about forced vaccines is ok with me. There are plenty of questions surrounding the vaccine in todays climate. Trying to silence people that want to have these discussions is wrong imo. Clearly Neil young disagrees which is his right.  He has taken a hard stance though, which bums me out since I like him and love some of his music. 

vant0037

Abe Froman said:

Having open discussions about forced vaccines is ok with me. There are plenty of questions surrounding the vaccine in todays climate. Trying to silence people that want to have these discussions is wrong imo. Clearly Neil young disagrees which is his right.  He has taken a hard stance though, which bums me out since I like him and love some of his music. 

I think discussion is fine, but no one should be upset about the fallout when you say something.  As I said, with speech there are responsibilities and consequences.  Rogan can do what he wants, clearly.  So can Neil.  That shouldn’t be controversial.

This conversation has stayed polite, I think.

Lost In Ohio

Maybe Joe should go back to making people eat horse shit for a million dollars.

Or something like that because I'm sure someone on Joe's side would say something about Eddie or Neil shutting up and playing rock and roll.

(Sarcasm or something.)

pdalowsky

Lerxst1992 said:

cp3iverson said:

Tim Simmons said:

But they don’t have HD audio and they pay the writers and artists shit. So is interface that big of a draw? 

HD audio is a big draw to audiophiles but just like SACDs and AAA vinyl it isn’t exactly sought after by the general public listening through their iPhones, cars, or google nests.   

I’ll take the service that has these algorithms.  

Apple was first with live lyrics, whose immersive experience and color scheme is visually stunning on an iPad. Apple was first to provide hi res lossless at no extra cost. Apples music library management features are far better than Spotify. Yes Spotify wins new music, but Apples algo suggestions have greatly improved, and listeners dont have to deal with podcast suggestions thrown in our faces…different strokes…spending time with Apple feels like a music first experience , spotify wants to march users to podcasts with no concern over editorial responsibility over misinformation. 

big fan of the apple service

lastexitlondon

I dont listen  to young  and rogan is a tool.
 There .

AW124797

This thing is so silly. Think about it. Rogan is behind pay wall - Spotify. I've been subscribing/resubscribing many times in the past 18 months. Even if he gets dropped (fairy tale), he can go back to his old format and reach even bigger audience that can subscribe for free. Neil lost Monsanto, lost HQ digital and he's going to lose this one. How many artists have joined him since Monday?

vant0037

I don't think that was the point of Neil's stance.  I think it was to publicly distance himself in a way that would get people to think twice about Rogan's platform and how its being used to promote or enable anti-vax viewpoints.  If that was indeed the point, then look at us, 8 pages in, talking about that very issue.   I don't think Neil was trying to get Spotify to actually drop Rogan, although I'm sure he would've liked that.

Indifference

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/what-have-you-guys-been-right-about-adam-carolla-slams-media-over-joe-rogan-controversy

vant0037

“ “Their job is to push back against the man and Neil Young should know the man isn’t Joe Rogan, the man is Dr. Fauci, the man is Governor Gavin Newsom, the man is the CDC, the man is the WHO, the man is Biden,” said Carolla.”

Eesh.  The article hooked me when Hannity was the one doing the interview. Lol.

vant0037

I just read the comments on that site.  Wow.  It
is a deep dark hole for some, I guess.  Anyway. Rogan can say what he wants and people will choose to embrace or reject him.  Same as anything else.

AW124797

vant0037 said:

I don't think that was the point of Neil's stance.  I think it was to publicly distance himself in a way that would get people to think twice about Rogan's platform and how its being used to promote or enable anti-vax viewpoints.  If that was indeed the point, then look at us, 8 pages in, talking about that very issue.   I don't think Neil was trying to get Spotify to actually drop Rogan, although I'm sure he would've liked that.

I don't know. Ultimatum on Monday - me or him/not both and on Wednesday Neil has asked other artists, record companies to join him in moving off the platform after Spotify started to remove his music. Seems like he's trying to cancel Rogan, but if that's too hard then Neil goes after Spotify's revenue. Again, I think Spotify is doing Neil a favor by having Rogan behind their pay wall. People have limited access. Joe is too big at this point. 

vant0037

AW124797 said:

vant0037 said:

I don't think that was the point of Neil's stance.  I think it was to publicly distance himself in a way that would get people to think twice about Rogan's platform and how its being used to promote or enable anti-vax viewpoints.  If that was indeed the point, then look at us, 8 pages in, talking about that very issue.   I don't think Neil was trying to get Spotify to actually drop Rogan, although I'm sure he would've liked that.

I don't know. Ultimatum on Monday - me or him/not both and on Wednesday Neil has asked other artists, record companies to join him in moving off the platform after Spotify started to remove his music. Seems like he's trying to cancel Rogan, but if that's too hard then Neil goes after Spotify's revenue. Again, I think Spotify is doing Neil a favor by having Rogan behind their pay wall. People have limited access. Joe is too big at this point. 

I get it, I’m just not sure it matters what his intention actually was, as the letter itself prompted the discussion we’re all having.  Maybe he does want Rogan deplatformed.  Free speech means the government is prohibited from restricting speech in certain cases.  Private companies?  Pfft. Free market baby!  To your point then, Rogan will of course stay on. But if there is something nefarious about consumers and companies deciding what’s best for them, then there are far fewer capitalists on the right then I remembered.  In another case, someone may be forced off a platform because the consumers demand it.  That’s the free market…right?

AW124797

vant0037 said:

AW124797 said:

vant0037 said:

I don't think that was the point of Neil's stance.  I think it was to publicly distance himself in a way that would get people to think twice about Rogan's platform and how its being used to promote or enable anti-vax viewpoints.  If that was indeed the point, then look at us, 8 pages in, talking about that very issue.   I don't think Neil was trying to get Spotify to actually drop Rogan, although I'm sure he would've liked that.

I don't know. Ultimatum on Monday - me or him/not both and on Wednesday Neil has asked other artists, record companies to join him in moving off the platform after Spotify started to remove his music. Seems like he's trying to cancel Rogan, but if that's too hard then Neil goes after Spotify's revenue. Again, I think Spotify is doing Neil a favor by having Rogan behind their pay wall. People have limited access. Joe is too big at this point. 

I get it, I’m just not sure it matters what his intention actually was, as the letter itself prompted the discussion we’re all having.  Maybe he does want Rogan deplatformed.  Free speech means the government is prohibited from restricting speech in certain cases.  Private companies?  Pfft. Free market baby!  To your point then, Rogan will of course stay on. But if there is something nefarious about consumers and companies deciding what’s best for them, then there are far fewer capitalists on the right then I remembered.  In another case, someone may be forced off a platform because the consumers demand it.  That’s the free market…right?

I know, but if I was Young, I'd keep it short to have some class - you Rogan/Spotify suck. I'm out. None of this "not both" or "other artists" because Rogan can do just as good without Spotify.

vant0037

Fair enough.

musicismylife78

Also it works both ways, the far left says stuff that’s outrageous every single day, the free market also can choose to silence or cancel those voices as well.  Remember the Dixie chicks or pj in 2003.  Clear channel after 9/11.  That’s also people speaking out and saying we don’t want those voices heard.  The new logic seems to be, silencing voices we don’t want to hear.  There’s lots of crazy left wing voices that are irresponsible, not backed by evidence or science, conspiracy driven and just plain not true.  AOC, pelosi, all anchors of cnn or msnbc etc.  the logic follows they too can be shut down or canceled.  Earlier in the thread someone was arguing Joe spouts stuff without scientific backing and giving him a voice gives propaganda a voice.  I personally view NY Times/HuffPo/WaPo as propaganda too, should we give them a platform?  I argued with someone else and said, if you feel Joe is propaganda then we should censor Don lemon, Trevor Noah, Colbert too right?  The person kind of gave a silly answer as if they aren’t propaganda and pushing an explicit agenda too.  You’ve got to call a ball a ball and a strike a strike no matter who is at the plate.  You can’t complain about platforming outrageous views with Joe and then cheer and argue Trevor Noah or CNN shouldn’t be censored.  

vant0037

The difference is you don’t have to subscribe to those individual voices. Neil’s “voice” aka his music was on the same platform and therefore connected to Rogan’s.  If you don’t like Trevor Noah, you don’t have to watch him. If you don’t like Sean Hannity, you don’t have to watch him.  Neil didn’t like the idea that he was on the same platform as Rogan.  That’s it.  So I hear your point but it’s not the same thing.

musicismylife78

Joe's walk off music at his stand up show yesterday was "Rockin in the Free World".  Thats how its done, kids!  I dont think Joe is phased at all, neither are his fans.  

pjl44

AW124797 said:

This thing is so silly. Think about it. Rogan is behind pay wall - Spotify. I've been subscribing/resubscribing many times in the past 18 months. Even if he gets dropped (fairy tale), he can go back to his old format and reach even bigger audience that can subscribe for free. Neil lost Monsanto, lost HQ digital and he's going to lose this one. How many artists have joined him since Monday?

He's not behind a paywall. You can listen to Rogan's podcast (and others) without a subscription.

vant0037

I actually don’t think Joe is that much of a troll that he is phased or not phased.  I think he earnestly believes he’s just being intellectually curious.

I think he’s probably a pretty good guy in other respects.  He doesn’t strike me as someone who does something to intentionally troll.  His fans may love his music choice as sticking it to Neil, but I’m not sure he cares all that much.

musicismylife78

vant0037 said:

The difference is you don’t have to subscribe to those individual voices. Neil’s “voice” aka his music was on the same platform and therefore connected to Rogan’s.  If you don’t like Trevor Noah, you don’t have to watch him. If you don’t like Sean Hannity, you don’t have to watch him.  Neil didn’t like the idea that he was on the same platform as Rogan.  That’s it.  So I hear your point but it’s not the same thing.

Its certainly within Neils right to take his music off spotify.  That said other wise points were made about if you go down that road, you really arent going to be able to be on any platform at all.  You could have issues with Amazon and Apple, and many do.  Neil doesnt.  Im sure Neils cd's are still sold at Walmart, lots of folks have issues with Walmart.  I think he was pissed about the low pay he got at Spotify, and this event was just an excuse to pull his music off it.  A catalyzing event.  That said, he doesnt have an issue with other multinationals, so theres the head scratcher.  I think everyone, including Joe's fans would have had minimal issues with him if he had just said, I dont like Joe, Im done with spotify.  Easy Peazy.  Big deal.  I think where the pushback came was from Neil adding the part about trying to get Spotify to take down Joe.  Its me or Joe.  If Joe stays I go.  Thats pretty clearly asking Spotify to kick Joe off so Neil can remain.  It doesnt get clearer than that.  Thats the issue alot of us have with this.  Want to leave Spotify, good, do it.  But, lots of us listen to Joe on spotify and should be allowed to do so.  Neil seems to agree with censorship and deplatforming and thats just not the way to do things.  It wasnt good when the Dixie Chicks endured it.  And its not good now.  I remember how horrified this board was when NYers were giving Ed the finger, booing loudly, LOUDLY during Bushleager in the 2003 tour, Ed was under serious pressure.  People were absolutely horrified about that behavior.  Ed was impaling Bush in mask form on the mic stand and clearly had some explicit and extreme things to say about W.  Those same people shocked that Ed endured that and the callous folks who banned the Dixie Chicks from country radio, now want us all to ban Jordan Peterson, or shout down Ben Shapiro and silence him when he visits campus, or deplatform Joe.  Those who call out such blatant hypocrisy arent wrong.  

Tim Simmons

AW124797 said:

lost HQ digital and he's going to lose this one. 

? Pono didn't do well, but all the services but Spotify and Pandora have subsequently added HD streaming because they realized there was a demand for it. He was ahead of the curve there despite his personal service not thriving. 

musicismylife78

Its similar to the folks who whine about living in a capitalist hellhole and want anarchism or socialism, yet own MacBooks and iPhones, cars, houses, possessions.  Its like, how is that gonna work out, bucko?

Tim Simmons

musicismylife78 said:

Its similar to the folks who whine about living in a capitalist hellhole and want anarchism or socialism, yet own MacBooks and iPhones, cars, houses, possessions.  Its like, how is that gonna work out, bucko?

AW124797

pjl44 said:

AW124797 said:

This thing is so silly. Think about it. Rogan is behind pay wall - Spotify. I've been subscribing/resubscribing many times in the past 18 months. Even if he gets dropped (fairy tale), he can go back to his old format and reach even bigger audience that can subscribe for free. Neil lost Monsanto, lost HQ digital and he's going to lose this one. How many artists have joined him since Monday?

He's not behind a paywall. You can listen to Rogan's podcast (and others) without a subscription.

Oh ffs. Thanks. You're right. 

pjl44

AW124797 said:

pjl44 said:

AW124797 said:

This thing is so silly. Think about it. Rogan is behind pay wall - Spotify. I've been subscribing/resubscribing many times in the past 18 months. Even if he gets dropped (fairy tale), he can go back to his old format and reach even bigger audience that can subscribe for free. Neil lost Monsanto, lost HQ digital and he's going to lose this one. How many artists have joined him since Monday?

He's not behind a paywall. You can listen to Rogan's podcast (and others) without a subscription.

Oh ffs. Thanks. You're right. 

Don't need anyone out here giving Spotify money if they don't have to 

Tim Simmons

The bottom line here is, no one involved loses. Not Neil, not Joe and not Spotify. The only real losers here are all of us. 

 

jpgoegel

musicismylife78 said:

Its similar to the folks who whine about living in a capitalist hellhole and want anarchism or socialism, yet own MacBooks and iPhones, cars, houses, possessions.  Its like, how is that gonna work out, bucko?

actual socialism has nothing to do with possessions or lack there of.   now, the media portrayed myth of socialism/communism may  but that's not accurate in the slightest. 

musicismylife78

i